# Start End Original Translated
1 00:00:02,720 00:00:09,160 From the start, this programme contains strong language and images, From the start, this programme contains strong language and images,
2 00:00:09,160 00:00:13,960 and descriptions of paedophilic sexual behaviour, and descriptions of paedophilic sexual behaviour,
3 00:00:13,960 00:00:20,240 which some viewers will find disturbing. which some viewers will find disturbing.
4 00:00:47,720 00:00:49,680 You all right? You all right?
5 00:00:52,160 00:00:56,560 So you guys have got a view in front of the KFC, yeah? So you guys have got a view in front of the KFC, yeah?
6 00:00:56,560 00:00:58,840 All right, mate. Speak to you in a bit. All right, mate. Speak to you in a bit.
7 00:00:58,840 00:01:00,320 Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
8 00:01:00,320 00:01:03,920 As a team, the tactics that we're employing, we're successful at. As a team, the tactics that we're employing, we're successful at.
9 00:01:03,920 00:01:07,760 There is nowhere online where subjects can go There is nowhere online where subjects can go
10 00:01:07,760 00:01:11,320 and speak to children without us being there to try and stop them. and speak to children without us being there to try and stop them.
11 00:01:11,320 00:01:13,880 There's no hiding places. There's no hiding places.
12 00:01:13,880 00:01:15,280 Hello? Hello?
13 00:01:15,280 00:01:17,160 All right. Go on, mate. All right. Go on, mate.
14 00:01:20,960 00:01:23,800 Yeah. Do you want them to go? Yeah, go. Yeah, go, go, go. Yeah. Do you want them to go? Yeah, go. Yeah, go, go, go.
15 00:01:23,800 00:01:25,200 Ready? Ready?
16 00:01:30,880 00:01:32,640 They're on their way, mate. They're on their way, mate.
17 00:01:49,600 00:01:52,520 All right, hands away from the steering wheel. Sorry? All right, hands away from the steering wheel. Sorry?
18 00:01:52,520 00:01:55,240 Bedfordshire Police. Hands away from the steering wheel. Bedfordshire Police. Hands away from the steering wheel.
19 00:01:55,240 00:01:57,280 Just step out the car for us. Just step out the car for us.
20 00:01:57,280 00:01:59,640 Give us the keys. What's your name? Give us the keys. What's your name?
21 00:01:59,640 00:02:02,000 Steve Johnson. Sorry, what...? Just take those. OK. Steve Johnson. Sorry, what...? Just take those. OK.
22 00:02:02,000 00:02:04,600 Steve Johnson, my name's Paul Fitzharris. Steve Johnson, my name's Paul Fitzharris.
23 00:02:04,600 00:02:07,680 I'm a detective constable with Bedfordshire Police. OK? I'm a detective constable with Bedfordshire Police. OK?
24 00:02:07,680 00:02:09,640 I'm going to formally arrest you, OK? I'm going to formally arrest you, OK?
25 00:02:09,640 00:02:11,160 What have you got in your pockets? What have you got in your pockets?
26 00:02:11,160 00:02:13,520 There's nothing in your pockets there? Just my wallet. There's nothing in your pockets there? Just my wallet.
27 00:02:13,520 00:02:16,000 Just your wallet, OK? I'm going to formally arrest you, OK, Just your wallet, OK? I'm going to formally arrest you, OK,
28 00:02:16,000 00:02:18,960 for the following offences, OK, so you need to listen careful. for the following offences, OK, so you need to listen careful.
29 00:02:18,960 00:02:21,320 Sexual communication with a child, OK? Sexual communication with a child, OK?
30 00:02:21,320 00:02:25,400 Arranging and facilitating a child sex offence, OK? Arranging and facilitating a child sex offence, OK?
31 00:02:25,400 00:02:29,800 And meeting a child following sexual grooming, OK? And meeting a child following sexual grooming, OK?
32 00:02:29,800 00:02:31,560 So you do not have to say anything, So you do not have to say anything,
33 00:02:31,560 00:02:34,160 but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned
34 00:02:34,160 00:02:36,440 something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say
35 00:02:36,440 00:02:38,080 may be given in evidence, all right? may be given in evidence, all right?
36 00:02:38,080 00:02:40,760 So you'll be placed into handcuffs. Put your hands in front of you. So you'll be placed into handcuffs. Put your hands in front of you.
37 00:02:40,760 00:02:43,720 I can't do this. OK. You can do it. OK? Come on... Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can't do this. OK. You can do it. OK? Come on... Whoa, whoa, whoa.
38 00:02:43,720 00:02:45,760 Whoa, whoa, whoa! Calm down. Whoa, whoa, whoa! Calm down.
39 00:02:45,760 00:02:48,040 Shall I get your sunglasses? Calm down. Calm down. Shall I get your sunglasses? Calm down. Calm down.
40 00:02:48,040 00:02:49,640 Calm down, all right? Calm down, all right?
41 00:02:49,640 00:02:52,000 Just give me your hand. Come on! Just give me your hand. Come on!
42 00:02:52,000 00:02:54,480 OK. So you've heard what you've been arrested for, OK. OK. So you've heard what you've been arrested for, OK.
43 00:02:54,480 00:02:57,320 What's going to happen next is we're going to the car, What's going to happen next is we're going to the car,
44 00:02:57,320 00:03:00,240 in the back of the car. All right? And we'll have a chat, all right? in the back of the car. All right? And we'll have a chat, all right?
45 00:03:00,240 00:03:02,760 OK. We'll lock your car up and all that. All right? OK. We'll lock your car up and all that. All right?
46 00:03:02,760 00:03:05,840 Have you got anything else on you? No. What's your first name again? Have you got anything else on you? No. What's your first name again?
47 00:03:05,840 00:03:08,480 Steven. OK, Steven, we're just going to come over here. Steven. OK, Steven, we're just going to come over here.
48 00:03:08,480 00:03:10,040 For some of these individuals, For some of these individuals,
49 00:03:10,040 00:03:12,720 this may be the first time that they've been arrested. this may be the first time that they've been arrested.
50 00:03:12,720 00:03:14,680 They're not what you would characterise They're not what you would characterise
51 00:03:14,680 00:03:17,520 as your hardened criminals that are getting nicked as your hardened criminals that are getting nicked
52 00:03:17,520 00:03:19,160 on a regular basis. on a regular basis.
53 00:03:19,160 00:03:21,440 The typical reaction tends to be The typical reaction tends to be
54 00:03:21,440 00:03:23,440 one of complete shock, one of complete shock,
55 00:03:23,440 00:03:25,720 because they just don't see it coming. because they just don't see it coming.
56 00:03:29,200 00:03:30,600 Stand up, stand up. Stand up, stand up.
57 00:03:30,600 00:03:32,400 Just breathe, just breathe. Just breathe, just breathe.
58 00:03:32,400 00:03:34,880 OK, you're all right. You're all right. OK, you're all right. You're all right.
59 00:03:34,880 00:03:35,920 Yeah? Yeah?
60 00:03:35,920 00:03:37,520 HE GASPS HE GASPS
61 00:03:39,360 00:03:41,160 All right? All right?
62 00:03:41,160 00:03:44,120 OK. We're going to come over to the desk over here. OK. We're going to come over to the desk over here.
63 00:03:47,840 00:03:49,400 Yeah. Yeah.
64 00:03:50,800 00:03:52,520 No. No.
65 00:03:52,520 00:03:55,720 Steven Johnson, who works as a teaching assistant, Steven Johnson, who works as a teaching assistant,
66 00:03:55,720 00:03:58,360 is arrested in an undercover sting is arrested in an undercover sting
67 00:03:58,360 00:04:02,120 for planning to meet and have sex with a 14-year-old boy. for planning to meet and have sex with a 14-year-old boy.
68 00:04:04,960 00:04:07,320 HE EXHALES HE EXHALES
69 00:04:07,320 00:04:09,960 If you feel faint or anything like that, you need to tell us, If you feel faint or anything like that, you need to tell us,
70 00:04:09,960 00:04:11,800 all right? I feel a bit nausic. Yeah? OK. all right? I feel a bit nausic. Yeah? OK.
71 00:04:13,160 00:04:16,080 Do you want some more water? Yes, please. Yeah? Do you want some more water? Yes, please. Yeah?
72 00:04:19,480 00:04:21,320 Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
73 00:04:23,000 00:04:25,360 All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right.
74 00:04:25,360 00:04:27,840 That's it. Just open your eyes for me. Open your eyes. That's it. Just open your eyes for me. Open your eyes.
75 00:04:27,840 00:04:29,680 It's all right. Open your eyes. It's all right. Open your eyes.
76 00:04:29,680 00:04:32,560 Open your eyes. All right. Just breathe. Big deep breaths. Open your eyes. All right. Just breathe. Big deep breaths.
77 00:04:35,200 00:04:37,600 UNDERCOVER OFFICER: If you're arrested for an offence UNDERCOVER OFFICER: If you're arrested for an offence
78 00:04:37,600 00:04:41,040 of this type, because it's so emotive, the impact is huge. of this type, because it's so emotive, the impact is huge.
79 00:04:41,040 00:04:44,520 Apart from the fact that they're facing a significant sentence, Apart from the fact that they're facing a significant sentence,
80 00:04:44,520 00:04:47,520 they're probably gonna lose their family life, they're probably gonna lose their family life,
81 00:04:47,520 00:04:51,440 their job, their standing in the community. It's enormous. their job, their standing in the community. It's enormous.
82 00:04:51,440 00:04:53,120 That's it. OK. That's it. OK.
83 00:04:53,120 00:04:54,800 Big deep breaths. Big deep breaths.
84 00:04:54,800 00:04:57,800 We've got a duty of care to the people we arrest. We've got a duty of care to the people we arrest.
85 00:04:57,800 00:05:00,080 It's not lost on us, It's not lost on us,
86 00:05:00,080 00:05:02,800 the human element to this job. the human element to this job.
87 00:05:07,320 00:05:09,320 HE SOBS HE SOBS
88 00:05:09,320 00:05:11,520 Take your time, Steven. Have a drink. Take your time, Steven. Have a drink.
89 00:05:17,200 00:05:19,560 You know, if this is a one-off, Steven, You know, if this is a one-off, Steven,
90 00:05:19,560 00:05:22,200 we can put that point across. Yeah? we can put that point across. Yeah?
91 00:05:26,840 00:05:29,320 How old did you believe him to be? How old did you believe him to be?
92 00:05:31,800 00:05:33,440 OK. OK.
93 00:05:36,360 00:05:38,200 OK. OK.
94 00:05:38,200 00:05:40,680 Even though he said he was 14, Even though he said he was 14,
95 00:05:40,680 00:05:43,040 what made you think he was 18? what made you think he was 18?
96 00:05:46,840 00:05:49,920 I think it's fair to know that you didn't think he was 18. I think it's fair to know that you didn't think he was 18.
97 00:05:49,920 00:05:52,320 You may have initially thought he was, You may have initially thought he was,
98 00:05:52,320 00:05:55,360 but once he said he was 14, said he had to go to school, but once he said he was 14, said he had to go to school,
99 00:05:55,360 00:05:57,640 you're picking him up in a KFC car park, you're picking him up in a KFC car park,
100 00:05:57,640 00:05:59,200 you knew he was 14. you knew he was 14.
101 00:05:59,200 00:06:02,400 Tell me why there were two condoms in your wallet this afternoon. Tell me why there were two condoms in your wallet this afternoon.
102 00:06:16,240 00:06:19,240 Mr Johnson, the CPS have been consulted Mr Johnson, the CPS have been consulted
103 00:06:19,240 00:06:22,560 and they've asked that you be charged with two offences. and they've asked that you be charged with two offences.
104 00:06:22,560 00:06:25,720 This officer will read out those charges to you now. Mmm. This officer will read out those charges to you now. Mmm.
105 00:06:25,720 00:06:30,400 On 24th June 2019 at Dunstable in the county of Bedfordshire... On 24th June 2019 at Dunstable in the county of Bedfordshire...
106 00:06:30,400 00:06:34,800 Steven Johnson faces a prison sentence for his crime. Steven Johnson faces a prison sentence for his crime.
107 00:06:34,800 00:06:37,960 ..the person that you were communicating with ..the person that you were communicating with
108 00:06:37,960 00:06:39,880 was an undercover officer. was an undercover officer.
109 00:06:39,880 00:06:41,920 An undercover police officer. An undercover police officer.
110 00:06:41,920 00:06:42,960 OK? OK?
111 00:06:42,960 00:06:45,800 So it wasn't a real child, luckily, So it wasn't a real child, luckily,
112 00:06:45,800 00:06:49,560 however it could have been quite easily... however it could have been quite easily...
113 00:06:49,560 00:06:52,480 The authorities estimate 300,000 people The authorities estimate 300,000 people
114 00:06:52,480 00:06:54,760 pose a sexual threat to children. pose a sexual threat to children.
115 00:06:54,760 00:06:56,520 If they were all caught, If they were all caught,
116 00:06:56,520 00:07:00,000 the UK's prisons could be filled four times over. the UK's prisons could be filled four times over.
117 00:07:00,000 00:07:03,280 OK. So you'll be staying with us tonight OK. So you'll be staying with us tonight
118 00:07:03,280 00:07:05,080 and have court tomorrow morning. and have court tomorrow morning.
119 00:07:05,080 00:07:08,520 Bail is refused to prevent further offences to young people... Bail is refused to prevent further offences to young people...
120 00:07:08,520 00:07:11,520 UNDERCOVER OFFICER: The opportunity for adults to have access UNDERCOVER OFFICER: The opportunity for adults to have access
121 00:07:11,520 00:07:13,880 to children, to talk to them sexually, to children, to talk to them sexually,
122 00:07:13,880 00:07:16,400 has increased ridiculously over the last few years has increased ridiculously over the last few years
123 00:07:16,400 00:07:18,680 due to the explosion of social media. due to the explosion of social media.
124 00:07:18,680 00:07:20,960 Unfortunately, with the internet, Unfortunately, with the internet,
125 00:07:20,960 00:07:23,960 we've opened Pandora's box we've opened Pandora's box
126 00:07:23,960 00:07:26,640 and it's very hard to put the lid back on it, really. and it's very hard to put the lid back on it, really.
127 00:07:26,640 00:07:30,160 Do you want anything to eat? No. No, I don't think so. Do you want anything to eat? No. No, I don't think so.
128 00:07:30,160 00:07:34,000 Do you think you would have seen someone like Steven Johnson Do you think you would have seen someone like Steven Johnson
129 00:07:34,000 00:07:35,400 before social media? before social media?
130 00:07:35,400 00:07:37,280 Less likely, I'd say. Less likely, I'd say.
131 00:07:37,280 00:07:39,560 You go back 10, 15 years ago, You go back 10, 15 years ago,
132 00:07:39,560 00:07:41,920 people didn't have smartphones. people didn't have smartphones.
133 00:07:41,920 00:07:45,280 Everyone's got them now. Pretty much every child. Everyone's got them now. Pretty much every child.
134 00:07:45,280 00:07:47,800 12, 13 years and upwards, they've all got them... 12, 13 years and upwards, they've all got them...
135 00:07:47,800 00:07:49,920 OK. Do you want to come this way? OK. Do you want to come this way?
136 00:07:49,920 00:07:55,200 ..so they're much more accessible to people like him. ..so they're much more accessible to people like him.
137 00:08:04,600 00:08:07,920 With child sexual abuse moving online, With child sexual abuse moving online,
138 00:08:07,920 00:08:09,920 the police are following, the police are following,
139 00:08:09,920 00:08:13,280 targeting offenders using undercover operatives. targeting offenders using undercover operatives.
140 00:08:32,520 00:08:37,120 I am online as a 14-year-old boy called Oli. I am online as a 14-year-old boy called Oli.
141 00:08:37,120 00:08:39,440 I live with my mum. I live with my mum.
142 00:08:39,440 00:08:41,800 I do still see my dad. I do still see my dad.
143 00:08:41,800 00:08:46,600 And I'm looking to meet an older guy to sort of show me the ropes. And I'm looking to meet an older guy to sort of show me the ropes.
144 00:08:53,560 00:08:55,520 Um, I'm on Grindr, Um, I'm on Grindr,
145 00:08:55,520 00:08:59,480 which is a gay hook-up chat site. which is a gay hook-up chat site.
146 00:09:01,400 00:09:05,400 The way it's designed it's so that you could see The way it's designed it's so that you could see
147 00:09:05,400 00:09:08,160 people that are in close proximity to where you are. people that are in close proximity to where you are.
148 00:09:08,160 00:09:10,720 It's all about meeting up with people who are It's all about meeting up with people who are
149 00:09:10,720 00:09:12,920 geographically close for sex. geographically close for sex.
150 00:09:14,160 00:09:16,520 So can anyone open an account on Grindr? So can anyone open an account on Grindr?
151 00:09:16,520 00:09:20,960 I mean, clearly, Grindr is a site designed for adults. I mean, clearly, Grindr is a site designed for adults.
152 00:09:20,960 00:09:24,200 You need to be 18 to be able to join it. You need to be 18 to be able to join it.
153 00:09:24,200 00:09:27,120 However, you can be any age. There's no verification, However, you can be any age. There's no verification,
154 00:09:27,120 00:09:28,880 there's no checking, there's no checking,
155 00:09:28,880 00:09:31,440 so I put in the age that I want to be, so I put in the age that I want to be,
156 00:09:31,440 00:09:34,560 and to all intents and purposes, that's it. and to all intents and purposes, that's it.
157 00:09:34,560 00:09:38,800 It's equivalent to a sex club having door staff on the door. It's equivalent to a sex club having door staff on the door.
158 00:09:40,520 00:09:42,800 But they're not checking any IDs. But they're not checking any IDs.
159 00:09:42,800 00:09:45,840 And you can walk in as 12-year-old, And you can walk in as 12-year-old,
160 00:09:45,840 00:09:47,360 as a 14-year-old, as a 14-year-old,
161 00:09:47,360 00:09:48,920 as an 8-year-old. as an 8-year-old.
162 00:09:52,080 00:09:54,560 If it's a website for over-18s, If it's a website for over-18s,
163 00:09:54,560 00:09:57,760 other users might assume you're an adult. Is that fair? other users might assume you're an adult. Is that fair?
164 00:10:00,120 00:10:03,080 Um, we know from intelligence reports Um, we know from intelligence reports
165 00:10:03,080 00:10:06,120 that sites such as Grindr will have children on them. that sites such as Grindr will have children on them.
166 00:10:06,120 00:10:08,800 We know that there's child sex exploitation going on We know that there's child sex exploitation going on
167 00:10:08,800 00:10:12,520 on platforms such as Grindr as we speak. on platforms such as Grindr as we speak.
168 00:10:14,400 00:10:16,680 When I'm speaking to a new subject, When I'm speaking to a new subject,
169 00:10:16,680 00:10:18,160 I tell them I'm 14. I tell them I'm 14.
170 00:10:19,440 00:10:21,520 Once I put my age out there, Once I put my age out there,
171 00:10:21,520 00:10:24,560 the majority - which is a good thing - the majority - which is a good thing -
172 00:10:24,560 00:10:28,000 are walking away saying, "Thank you very much. Too young for me." are walking away saying, "Thank you very much. Too young for me."
173 00:10:29,360 00:10:31,560 Clearly, that's not always the case. Clearly, that's not always the case.
174 00:10:36,440 00:10:38,880 This one, he says he's 30. This one, he says he's 30.
175 00:10:38,880 00:10:40,760 I said I'm 14. I said I'm 14.
176 00:10:40,760 00:10:43,640 He says, "Naughty boy, being on here." He says, "Naughty boy, being on here."
177 00:10:43,640 00:10:45,240 Who is he? Who is he?
178 00:10:45,240 00:10:49,600 The subject's using the tagline "up for fun". The subject's using the tagline "up for fun".
179 00:10:49,600 00:10:51,520 I'll keep chatting to him, I'll keep chatting to him,
180 00:10:51,520 00:10:53,480 see how things move on. see how things move on.
181 00:11:03,120 00:11:07,160 He's sent me four images, He's sent me four images,
182 00:11:07,160 00:11:10,920 one would appear to be his erect penis through his trousers, one would appear to be his erect penis through his trousers,
183 00:11:10,920 00:11:13,480 and displaying his penis, while it's not erect, and displaying his penis, while it's not erect,
184 00:11:13,480 00:11:15,360 and then one with an erect penis. and then one with an erect penis.
185 00:11:15,360 00:11:17,640 He's already aware of my age, He's already aware of my age,
186 00:11:17,640 00:11:19,440 we're having a sexualised chat. we're having a sexualised chat.
187 00:11:23,560 00:11:27,040 I will build a picture about this individual to find out who he is. I will build a picture about this individual to find out who he is.
188 00:11:27,040 00:11:30,320 He's clearly got a sexual interest in children. He's clearly got a sexual interest in children.
189 00:11:51,070 00:11:53,430 Right, Up For Fun. Right, Up For Fun.
190 00:11:53,430 00:11:56,790 Is he the one who sent pictures of his penis? Yeah. Is he the one who sent pictures of his penis? Yeah.
191 00:11:56,790 00:11:58,470 Or someone's penis. Yeah. Yeah. Or someone's penis. Yeah. Yeah.
192 00:12:00,670 00:12:05,230 DS Andy Nash of the eastern region special operations unit DS Andy Nash of the eastern region special operations unit
193 00:12:05,230 00:12:08,590 leads an undercover team investigating online grooming. leads an undercover team investigating online grooming.
194 00:12:10,270 00:12:12,270 He asked me how big my dick was. He asked me how big my dick was.
195 00:12:12,270 00:12:16,350 I've asked him how big his was and he said it's seven inches I've asked him how big his was and he said it's seven inches
196 00:12:16,350 00:12:18,390 and I said, "Oh, that's going to be too big for me." and I said, "Oh, that's going to be too big for me."
197 00:12:18,390 00:12:21,030 And he said, "Well, you can still suck it." So... And he said, "Well, you can still suck it." So...
198 00:12:22,750 00:12:24,030 ..in terms of... ..in terms of...
199 00:12:25,590 00:12:28,470 ..what he wants to do and his intentions, ..what he wants to do and his intentions,
200 00:12:28,470 00:12:29,910 that's all nice and clear. that's all nice and clear.
201 00:12:31,070 00:12:33,910 I think the final thing was going to be the hardship. Yeah. I think the final thing was going to be the hardship. Yeah.
202 00:12:33,910 00:12:36,670 We haven't got any images of him, have we? We haven't got any images of him, have we?
203 00:12:36,670 00:12:38,270 Well, not facial. Well, not facial.
204 00:12:38,270 00:12:43,070 The unit are unable to identify the Grindr user Up For Fun. The unit are unable to identify the Grindr user Up For Fun.
205 00:12:43,070 00:12:45,430 The thing is, their usernames are not usernames. The thing is, their usernames are not usernames.
206 00:12:46,590 00:12:48,310 No, they're not. If that makes sense? No, they're not. If that makes sense?
207 00:12:48,310 00:12:49,910 There's nothing to search for. No. There's nothing to search for. No.
208 00:12:49,910 00:12:52,390 Yeah. It's a real problem. Yeah. It's a real problem.
209 00:12:52,390 00:12:54,750 He can change it every day. They can change their image. He can change it every day. They can change their image.
210 00:12:54,750 00:12:57,030 You can change it every hour. They can change their tag. You can change it every hour. They can change their tag.
211 00:12:57,030 00:12:58,230 They can change it and they do. They can change it and they do.
212 00:13:02,310 00:13:05,470 PRODUCER: Is there any urgency in identifying Up For Fun? PRODUCER: Is there any urgency in identifying Up For Fun?
213 00:13:05,470 00:13:08,150 There is always a degree of urgency to work out who he is, There is always a degree of urgency to work out who he is,
214 00:13:08,150 00:13:10,870 so we can accurately assess the risk he presents. so we can accurately assess the risk he presents.
215 00:13:12,590 00:13:15,390 We don't know whether he has children at home, We don't know whether he has children at home,
216 00:13:15,390 00:13:18,070 if he's a teacher, all of these kind of things that would if he's a teacher, all of these kind of things that would
217 00:13:18,070 00:13:21,630 contribute to him presenting a greater risk to the public. contribute to him presenting a greater risk to the public.
218 00:13:21,630 00:13:25,390 Will you ask Grindr for any information they have on Up For Fun? Will you ask Grindr for any information they have on Up For Fun?
219 00:13:25,390 00:13:28,830 Erm, we can't ask Grindr because of where they're located. Erm, we can't ask Grindr because of where they're located.
220 00:13:30,150 00:13:32,550 Because they are based outside of the UK, Because they are based outside of the UK,
221 00:13:32,550 00:13:36,350 our laws can't compel them to provide material. our laws can't compel them to provide material.
222 00:13:41,150 00:13:43,230 Cheers, mate. Cheers, mate.
223 00:13:43,230 00:13:47,150 Undercover operatives deploy on any social media platform Undercover operatives deploy on any social media platform
224 00:13:47,150 00:13:50,950 where there's intelligence of children being sexually exploited, where there's intelligence of children being sexually exploited,
225 00:13:50,950 00:13:53,430 most of which are based in United States. most of which are based in United States.
226 00:13:55,470 00:13:59,790 On the whole, do you think you're getting enough cooperation from social media applications? On the whole, do you think you're getting enough cooperation from social media applications?
227 00:13:59,790 00:14:01,630 Erm, no. Erm, no.
228 00:14:01,630 00:14:04,430 There are companies that quite clearly are in possession There are companies that quite clearly are in possession
229 00:14:04,430 00:14:07,710 of the data and will not give it, no matter what, you know, of the data and will not give it, no matter what, you know,
230 00:14:07,710 00:14:09,350 legal process you try to follow. legal process you try to follow.
231 00:14:10,830 00:14:12,390 It makes it very frustrating It makes it very frustrating
232 00:14:12,390 00:14:15,230 because I then can't identify people who are committing crime. because I then can't identify people who are committing crime.
233 00:14:17,590 00:14:20,190 Once they cross over a criminal threshold, Once they cross over a criminal threshold,
234 00:14:20,190 00:14:22,030 we should be able to access that data. we should be able to access that data.
235 00:14:51,270 00:14:53,390 That Up For It dude, That Up For It dude,
236 00:14:53,390 00:14:56,830 he's talking about if I can jump on a bus he can meet me at Basildon. he's talking about if I can jump on a bus he can meet me at Basildon.
237 00:14:56,830 00:15:00,350 He can teach me a thing or two when we meet and he can give me He can teach me a thing or two when we meet and he can give me
238 00:15:00,350 00:15:02,270 the money for the bus to get back. the money for the bus to get back.
239 00:15:02,270 00:15:04,750 I think it's a 200 bus that goes from Grays to Basildon. I think it's a 200 bus that goes from Grays to Basildon.
240 00:15:04,750 00:15:07,270 It's like 50 minutes. 50? Yeah. It's like 50 minutes. 50? Yeah.
241 00:15:07,270 00:15:09,910 That will take you, I imagine, into the main bus... That will take you, I imagine, into the main bus...
242 00:15:11,190 00:15:14,270 Depot. ..depot, yeah... Yeah. ..where the station is. Yeah. Depot. ..depot, yeah... Yeah. ..where the station is. Yeah.
243 00:15:14,270 00:15:16,470 It's where the shopping precincts and all that. Yeah. It's where the shopping precincts and all that. Yeah.
244 00:15:17,990 00:15:21,030 So, yeah, but then it would become how we would manage... So, yeah, but then it would become how we would manage...
245 00:15:22,470 00:15:23,950 ..the meet. The where and how. ..the meet. The where and how.
246 00:15:23,950 00:15:27,390 Given that we don't know who he is and don't know what he looks like. That's where we are. Given that we don't know who he is and don't know what he looks like. That's where we are.
247 00:15:27,390 00:15:29,590 Nice one. It could progress quite quickly. Nice one. It could progress quite quickly.
248 00:15:37,150 00:15:40,630 I've currently got quite an urgent child sexual exploitation I've currently got quite an urgent child sexual exploitation
249 00:15:40,630 00:15:43,790 job on at the moment and I need a council tax check done. job on at the moment and I need a council tax check done.
250 00:15:43,790 00:15:45,070 I don't know... I don't know...
251 00:15:45,070 00:15:48,030 I haven't done it through Basildon before, I don't know where to go to. I haven't done it through Basildon before, I don't know where to go to.
252 00:15:48,030 00:15:52,630 The research and development team is tasked with finding the real-life identities The research and development team is tasked with finding the real-life identities
253 00:15:52,630 00:15:55,190 of paedophiles engaging with operatives. of paedophiles engaging with operatives.
254 00:15:55,190 00:15:56,750 When I first started this job, When I first started this job,
255 00:15:56,750 00:15:59,790 I didn't really know that these sort of conversations even took place. I didn't really know that these sort of conversations even took place.
256 00:16:01,190 00:16:04,510 It's almost like having a direct insight into the mind of a paedophile. It's almost like having a direct insight into the mind of a paedophile.
257 00:16:09,070 00:16:11,790 PRODUCER: How much work goes into identifying these guys? PRODUCER: How much work goes into identifying these guys?
258 00:16:11,790 00:16:13,110 It varies. It varies.
259 00:16:13,110 00:16:16,430 I've had some instances where people have told the undercover officer I've had some instances where people have told the undercover officer
260 00:16:16,430 00:16:19,030 what their first name is and where they're from and all it takes what their first name is and where they're from and all it takes
261 00:16:19,030 00:16:22,630 is a check on voters' role and you can do it in five minutes. is a check on voters' role and you can do it in five minutes.
262 00:16:22,630 00:16:26,510 Other times, it involves travelling round the country to get CCTV, Other times, it involves travelling round the country to get CCTV,
263 00:16:26,510 00:16:29,350 trying to triangulate mobile phone towers, trying to triangulate mobile phone towers,
264 00:16:29,350 00:16:32,150 so you've got to be quite creative to actually get an identity. so you've got to be quite creative to actually get an identity.
265 00:16:35,070 00:16:36,830 I'm just trying to pick out information I'm just trying to pick out information
266 00:16:36,830 00:16:38,230 which we can use to identify him. which we can use to identify him.
267 00:16:45,830 00:16:50,830 Right, so now he's said, "I'm on Snapchat with the username of BLEEP. Right, so now he's said, "I'm on Snapchat with the username of BLEEP.
268 00:16:50,830 00:16:53,150 Let's have a look at this, see what it says. Let's have a look at this, see what it says.
269 00:16:55,870 00:16:57,390 Right, OK. Right, OK.
270 00:16:57,390 00:17:00,630 So I stuck BLEEP into Google So I stuck BLEEP into Google
271 00:17:00,630 00:17:03,390 and the first thing that pops up is a Denis Sweeney. and the first thing that pops up is a Denis Sweeney.
272 00:17:05,430 00:17:08,310 And it's come up with an Instagram account, which is locked, unfortunately. And it's come up with an Instagram account, which is locked, unfortunately.
273 00:17:14,990 00:17:16,390 Right. Right.
274 00:17:18,510 00:17:22,270 I've put Denis Sweeney and he said he's from Basildon, I've put Denis Sweeney and he said he's from Basildon,
275 00:17:22,270 00:17:25,510 so I put Denis Sweeney and Basildon into Facebook and its come up so I put Denis Sweeney and Basildon into Facebook and its come up
276 00:17:25,510 00:17:28,630 with this chap, who looks about the right sort of age with this chap, who looks about the right sort of age
277 00:17:28,630 00:17:31,390 and potentially has got a partner. and potentially has got a partner.
278 00:17:31,390 00:17:34,510 It says he's a care assistant in care homes, which is It says he's a care assistant in care homes, which is
279 00:17:34,510 00:17:35,910 obviously worrying. obviously worrying.
280 00:17:35,910 00:17:37,950 We can't say for certain whether it's him or not We can't say for certain whether it's him or not
281 00:17:37,950 00:17:39,670 but I would say it's quite a good link, but I would say it's quite a good link,
282 00:17:39,670 00:17:42,150 the fact that the Instagram account has come up with this. the fact that the Instagram account has come up with this.
283 00:17:44,270 00:17:46,790 If we've got a name and we're trying to build up a picture If we've got a name and we're trying to build up a picture
284 00:17:46,790 00:17:49,950 of someone's life, we use PNC, the police national computer system. of someone's life, we use PNC, the police national computer system.
285 00:17:51,830 00:17:54,190 If you've ever been arrested or convicted of an offence, If you've ever been arrested or convicted of an offence,
286 00:17:54,190 00:17:56,390 that previous criminal history will pop up. that previous criminal history will pop up.
287 00:17:57,550 00:18:00,870 So you've got a Denis Sweeney, he's 39 years old. So you've got a Denis Sweeney, he's 39 years old.
288 00:18:00,870 00:18:02,230 That sounds about right. That sounds about right.
289 00:18:04,150 00:18:05,590 He does have a PNC record. He does have a PNC record.
290 00:18:06,950 00:18:08,670 Ah, there you go. Ah, there you go.
291 00:18:08,670 00:18:11,350 Sexual activity with a male child under 16. Sexual activity with a male child under 16.
292 00:18:11,350 00:18:15,790 So, that would tie in with exactly what we are investigating here. So, that would tie in with exactly what we are investigating here.
293 00:18:17,110 00:18:19,550 So last year, in August and July, So last year, in August and July,
294 00:18:19,550 00:18:23,910 two children both claimed sexual abuse against this guy. two children both claimed sexual abuse against this guy.
295 00:18:25,070 00:18:26,910 At the moment, these are only allegations, At the moment, these are only allegations,
296 00:18:26,910 00:18:29,270 so it doesn't mean he's done anything. so it doesn't mean he's done anything.
297 00:18:29,270 00:18:32,590 Denis Sweeney wasn't prosecuted for the previous allegations due Denis Sweeney wasn't prosecuted for the previous allegations due
298 00:18:32,590 00:18:34,070 to insufficient evidence. to insufficient evidence.
299 00:18:35,630 00:18:37,990 Investigating child abuse offences is hard. Investigating child abuse offences is hard.
300 00:18:37,990 00:18:42,230 You're reliant on a child having the confidence and... You're reliant on a child having the confidence and...
301 00:18:43,550 00:18:46,470 ..ability to come forward and make allegations against an adult ..ability to come forward and make allegations against an adult
302 00:18:46,470 00:18:49,110 and that's a particularly challenging thing for a child to do. and that's a particularly challenging thing for a child to do.
303 00:18:51,190 00:18:54,470 Only 3% of sexual offence allegations, Only 3% of sexual offence allegations,
304 00:18:54,470 00:18:57,750 including crimes against children, result in a charge. including crimes against children, result in a charge.
305 00:19:00,750 00:19:04,110 PRODUCER: Do you struggle to get prosecutions with this work you're doing here? PRODUCER: Do you struggle to get prosecutions with this work you're doing here?
306 00:19:05,350 00:19:09,430 No, because the bonus is that we, No, because the bonus is that we,
307 00:19:09,430 00:19:13,190 we capture all the evidence as it happens. we capture all the evidence as it happens.
308 00:19:13,190 00:19:15,710 You know, we've corroborated absolutely everything that's You know, we've corroborated absolutely everything that's
309 00:19:15,710 00:19:19,950 occurred between our child victim and our offender. occurred between our child victim and our offender.
310 00:19:21,230 00:19:24,230 The unit need to continue their operation to test The unit need to continue their operation to test
311 00:19:24,230 00:19:28,910 whether their suspect is prepared to meet Ollie in person. whether their suspect is prepared to meet Ollie in person.
312 00:19:28,910 00:19:30,830 He wants to have sex with Ollie. He wants to have sex with Ollie.
313 00:19:30,830 00:19:35,150 He's been quite upfront and direct about what he wants to do. He's been quite upfront and direct about what he wants to do.
314 00:19:35,150 00:19:36,390 We're going to let this one run. We're going to let this one run.
315 00:19:45,190 00:19:47,310 As well as posing as children, As well as posing as children,
316 00:19:47,310 00:19:50,310 undercover officers assume adult roles. undercover officers assume adult roles.
317 00:20:16,510 00:20:20,910 An operative posing as a man sexually abusing his daughter has An operative posing as a man sexually abusing his daughter has
318 00:20:20,910 00:20:25,150 made contact with a man in his 30s in a chatroom used by paedophiles. made contact with a man in his 30s in a chatroom used by paedophiles.
319 00:20:50,030 00:20:51,550 Hello, Dave Shipley speaking. Hello, Dave Shipley speaking.
320 00:20:58,230 00:21:03,190 I'll arrange for officers to attend that location, arrest him I'll arrange for officers to attend that location, arrest him
321 00:21:03,190 00:21:07,430 away from the children, so that it causes minimal disruption there. away from the children, so that it causes minimal disruption there.
322 00:21:08,750 00:21:11,230 Police have visited the suspect's parents, Police have visited the suspect's parents,
323 00:21:11,230 00:21:14,990 who tell them that he is working at a residential centre for children. who tell them that he is working at a residential centre for children.
324 00:21:16,150 00:21:19,870 And in terms of the parents, how did you leave it with them? And in terms of the parents, how did you leave it with them?
325 00:21:19,870 00:21:23,070 Did you get the impression that they are likely to ring up the son? Did you get the impression that they are likely to ring up the son?
326 00:21:23,070 00:21:26,790 The case is passed to DS David Shipley at Kent Police. The case is passed to DS David Shipley at Kent Police.
327 00:21:26,790 00:21:30,790 ...I'd be grateful. Right, cheers then. Bye-bye. ...I'd be grateful. Right, cheers then. Bye-bye.
328 00:21:30,790 00:21:32,670 OK. OK.
329 00:21:32,670 00:21:37,070 Our suspect makes it quite clear that he is interested Our suspect makes it quite clear that he is interested
330 00:21:37,070 00:21:41,110 in the sexual activity with the profile's eight-year-old child. in the sexual activity with the profile's eight-year-old child.
331 00:21:41,110 00:21:47,030 He also makes it clear that he has previously made other arrangements He also makes it clear that he has previously made other arrangements
332 00:21:47,030 00:21:51,430 with similar children and those arrangements have fallen through. with similar children and those arrangements have fallen through.
333 00:21:51,430 00:21:57,190 The research into the mobile details just results to a billing address The research into the mobile details just results to a billing address
334 00:21:57,190 00:22:00,230 for the suspect, which is his parents. for the suspect, which is his parents.
335 00:22:00,230 00:22:05,270 They have disclosed that he actually works for the residential centre for children. They have disclosed that he actually works for the residential centre for children.
336 00:22:06,910 00:22:10,350 We're going to scoot on down there and get him arrested. We're going to scoot on down there and get him arrested.
337 00:22:15,550 00:22:19,310 For me, this is the sort of job where they should be in custody For me, this is the sort of job where they should be in custody
338 00:22:19,310 00:22:21,190 before I go home before I go home
339 00:22:21,190 00:22:24,670 because I'd be stressed having my dinner. because I'd be stressed having my dinner.
340 00:22:26,150 00:22:30,070 This is someone who expresses a sexual interest in girls This is someone who expresses a sexual interest in girls
341 00:22:30,070 00:22:33,350 of an age where they would be going to the centre. of an age where they would be going to the centre.
342 00:22:34,630 00:22:35,950 Just down here. Just down here.
343 00:22:37,190 00:22:39,550 Therefore, he has access to the kids Therefore, he has access to the kids
344 00:22:39,550 00:22:41,350 when they're away from their parents. when they're away from their parents.
345 00:22:43,710 00:22:46,550 By the end of today, he should be in custody By the end of today, he should be in custody
346 00:22:46,550 00:22:49,910 and any kids that he has access to will be protected from him. and any kids that he has access to will be protected from him.
347 00:22:58,910 00:23:01,670 Hello, are you all right? Morning, you all right. Hello, are you all right? Morning, you all right.
348 00:23:01,670 00:23:04,910 Basically, there's been some online communication with children. OK. Basically, there's been some online communication with children. OK.
349 00:23:04,910 00:23:07,670 So we need to speak with him, a safeguarding priority really. So we need to speak with him, a safeguarding priority really.
350 00:23:07,670 00:23:09,350 No, of course. No, of course.
351 00:23:09,350 00:23:10,590 That's not him, is it? That's not him, is it?
352 00:23:10,590 00:23:15,750 On the red bike? Yes. Oh, OK. On the red bike? Yes. Oh, OK.
353 00:23:15,750 00:23:17,270 We'll go and have a chat. We'll go and have a chat.
354 00:23:21,310 00:23:22,470 Yeah, that's him. Yeah, that's him.
355 00:23:28,830 00:23:30,070 Have you got a moment? Have you got a moment?
356 00:23:33,310 00:23:35,590 Hello, mate, you all right? Kent Police. Hello, mate, you all right? Kent Police.
357 00:23:35,590 00:23:38,030 Hi. We're from online investigation. Hi. We're from online investigation.
358 00:23:38,030 00:23:41,190 We need to have a chat with you about, obviously, communication online. We need to have a chat with you about, obviously, communication online.
359 00:23:42,310 00:23:43,870 Yeah. You do? Yeah. You do?
360 00:23:45,830 00:23:48,190 Yeah, that's fine. Yes, that would be perfect. OK. Yeah, that's fine. Yes, that would be perfect. OK.
361 00:23:48,190 00:23:49,750 I mean, obviously, know why we're here. I mean, obviously, know why we're here.
362 00:23:52,830 00:23:53,790 Right. Right.
363 00:23:54,830 00:23:56,190 OK. OK.
364 00:24:15,230 00:24:16,950 If you just take a pew in there. If you just take a pew in there.
365 00:24:16,950 00:24:19,310 If you have a sexual interest in children, If you have a sexual interest in children,
366 00:24:19,310 00:24:23,710 then you need to find some way of gaining access to children then you need to find some way of gaining access to children
367 00:24:23,710 00:24:27,750 and if you can't do it via your own family then there needs to be some and if you can't do it via your own family then there needs to be some
368 00:24:27,750 00:24:32,190 way and whether it is through some youth organisation or from a school. way and whether it is through some youth organisation or from a school.
369 00:24:33,830 00:24:36,190 So he's been arrested on suspicion of arranging So he's been arrested on suspicion of arranging
370 00:24:36,190 00:24:38,590 the commission of a child sex offence. the commission of a child sex offence.
371 00:24:38,590 00:24:40,950 His arrest was necessary to carry out a prompt His arrest was necessary to carry out a prompt
372 00:24:40,950 00:24:45,430 and effective investigation and to carry out any searches and effective investigation and to carry out any searches
373 00:24:45,430 00:24:49,470 in relation to the offence for devices used to commit that chat. in relation to the offence for devices used to commit that chat.
374 00:24:49,470 00:24:52,710 And also to protect vulnerable children. And also to protect vulnerable children.
375 00:24:52,710 00:24:54,190 Have you ever been arrested before? Have you ever been arrested before?
376 00:24:54,190 00:24:55,910 OK. OK.
377 00:24:55,910 00:24:58,350 In terms of him, there will be an interview, In terms of him, there will be an interview,
378 00:24:58,350 00:25:03,190 we'll be looking at our forensic analysis of any devices seized. we'll be looking at our forensic analysis of any devices seized.
379 00:25:03,190 00:25:06,190 It will tell you how many images are there, how they got there. It will tell you how many images are there, how they got there.
380 00:25:06,190 00:25:09,510 What they won't tell you is what the offender is thinking about What they won't tell you is what the offender is thinking about
381 00:25:09,510 00:25:11,870 when he's looking at those images. when he's looking at those images.
382 00:25:11,870 00:25:16,190 It won't tell you necessarily what age of children that person It won't tell you necessarily what age of children that person
383 00:25:16,190 00:25:18,550 is fantasising about. is fantasising about.
384 00:25:18,550 00:25:20,910 What they dream of doing in the future. What they dream of doing in the future.
385 00:25:20,910 00:25:23,670 It won't tell us necessarily about the children that he has It won't tell us necessarily about the children that he has
386 00:25:23,670 00:25:28,110 access to or that he's touched previously. access to or that he's touched previously.
387 00:25:28,110 00:25:31,230 They are the sort of things that people will tell us in interview. They are the sort of things that people will tell us in interview.
388 00:25:34,350 00:25:35,510 When did this all start? When did this all start?
389 00:25:39,830 00:25:41,110 Yes. Yes.
390 00:25:42,910 00:25:44,030 Yeah. Yeah.
391 00:25:58,270 00:25:59,230 What ages? What ages?
392 00:26:06,190 00:26:07,350 Is that girls or boys? Is that girls or boys?
393 00:26:11,230 00:26:12,270 OK. OK.
394 00:26:21,270 00:26:22,590 OK. OK.
395 00:26:22,590 00:26:25,790 So when this is going on, you're saying it's just as a fantasy, then, So when this is going on, you're saying it's just as a fantasy, then,
396 00:26:25,790 00:26:28,310 you're trying to egg them on to carry on the conversation? you're trying to egg them on to carry on the conversation?
397 00:26:30,590 00:26:32,070 Are you getting turned on at all? Are you getting turned on at all?
398 00:26:50,950 00:26:52,710 I've got no further questions. SUSPECT SOBS I've got no further questions. SUSPECT SOBS
399 00:26:52,710 00:26:54,390 Is there anything you want to add? Is there anything you want to add?
400 00:26:54,390 00:26:56,270 No. OK. No. OK.
401 00:26:56,270 00:26:58,190 I've got to turn off the discs... I've got to turn off the discs...
402 00:26:58,190 00:27:02,790 Most people who have no sexual interest in children at all Most people who have no sexual interest in children at all
403 00:27:02,790 00:27:07,230 wouldn't go within a country mile of sexual chat about child abuse. wouldn't go within a country mile of sexual chat about child abuse.
404 00:27:08,910 00:27:12,750 Something is happening with this guy's thinking processes, where Something is happening with this guy's thinking processes, where
405 00:27:12,750 00:27:17,630 he's using that as a justification in order to talk about children. he's using that as a justification in order to talk about children.
406 00:27:17,630 00:27:19,990 Because he can then say to himself, Because he can then say to himself,
407 00:27:19,990 00:27:23,510 "Well, I'm only doing this to keep the chat going." "Well, I'm only doing this to keep the chat going."
408 00:27:23,510 00:27:26,590 Which is nowhere near as bad as saying to himself, "Actually, Which is nowhere near as bad as saying to himself, "Actually,
409 00:27:26,590 00:27:29,590 "I'm talking about child abuse because that's what I want to do." "I'm talking about child abuse because that's what I want to do."
410 00:27:48,750 00:27:50,190 SUSPECT SOBS SUSPECT SOBS
411 00:27:55,350 00:27:57,750 He's going to tell us what he's comfortable telling us He's going to tell us what he's comfortable telling us
412 00:27:57,750 00:27:59,470 at this moment in time. at this moment in time.
413 00:27:59,470 00:28:03,150 Our job now is to look at forensic download. Our job now is to look at forensic download.
414 00:28:03,150 00:28:07,630 The types of images that we recover may tell us an entirely different story. The types of images that we recover may tell us an entirely different story.
415 00:28:07,630 00:28:10,990 OK, you've been bailed pending the officers making some further enquiries. OK, you've been bailed pending the officers making some further enquiries.
416 00:28:12,230 00:28:14,870 You have to return to this police station on... You have to return to this police station on...
417 00:28:14,870 00:28:19,190 We cannot afford to be tunnel-visioned in these cases. We cannot afford to be tunnel-visioned in these cases.
418 00:28:19,190 00:28:20,310 It's like a spider's web. It's like a spider's web.
419 00:28:20,310 00:28:24,710 You've got to follow all the little strands because this may be You've got to follow all the little strands because this may be
420 00:28:24,710 00:28:28,590 the one and only opportunity to identify a victim the one and only opportunity to identify a victim
421 00:28:28,590 00:28:30,950 or to identify an offender. or to identify an offender.
422 00:28:30,950 00:28:32,670 And if we don't seize that opportunity, And if we don't seize that opportunity,
423 00:28:32,670 00:28:34,270 then it may never come again. then it may never come again.
424 00:29:08,640 00:29:11,800 Denis Sweeney has groomed Oli over nine days. Denis Sweeney has groomed Oli over nine days.
425 00:29:39,280 00:29:41,360 Where are you at with Up for fun? Where are you at with Up for fun?
426 00:29:41,360 00:29:44,960 We have provisionally, and it's only provisional at the moment, We have provisionally, and it's only provisional at the moment,
427 00:29:44,960 00:29:48,440 we've arranged for me to travel to him. we've arranged for me to travel to him.
428 00:29:48,440 00:29:50,280 He lives in Basildon. He lives in Basildon.
429 00:29:50,280 00:29:53,640 Eh, so I'm going to travel to him next Saturday. Eh, so I'm going to travel to him next Saturday.
430 00:29:53,640 00:29:57,240 So things are looking promising with him at the moment. So things are looking promising with him at the moment.
431 00:29:57,240 00:29:59,560 Do you get a sense of this guy? Do you get a sense of this guy?
432 00:29:59,560 00:30:01,840 Erm, he's quite careful. Erm, he's quite careful.
433 00:30:01,840 00:30:03,720 He has been quite careful so far. He has been quite careful so far.
434 00:30:03,720 00:30:06,080 He hasn't chatted for prolonged periods of time. He hasn't chatted for prolonged periods of time.
435 00:30:06,080 00:30:10,120 Like today, he's just putting a few little sort of caveats in there, Like today, he's just putting a few little sort of caveats in there,
436 00:30:10,120 00:30:13,400 erm, saying, you know, only do what I want to do. erm, saying, you know, only do what I want to do.
437 00:30:13,400 00:30:16,400 If I'm comfortable, if that just means having a coffee If I'm comfortable, if that just means having a coffee
438 00:30:16,400 00:30:19,480 and then going home, that's OK. and then going home, that's OK.
439 00:30:28,520 00:30:31,640 I've replied to that, saying I don't drink coffee, I've replied to that, saying I don't drink coffee,
440 00:30:31,640 00:30:35,440 I wasn't planning on going there just for a drink. I wasn't planning on going there just for a drink.
441 00:30:35,440 00:30:38,360 And he's replied straight away saying, "LOL. And he's replied straight away saying, "LOL.
442 00:30:38,360 00:30:41,280 "If you do drink it most likely will be cum." "If you do drink it most likely will be cum."
443 00:30:41,280 00:30:47,000 So, he's very quickly got over and moved on from, So, he's very quickly got over and moved on from,
444 00:30:47,000 00:30:50,400 erm, you know, no expectations, erm, you know, no expectations,
445 00:30:50,400 00:30:52,760 we can just come and have a chat and have a coffee we can just come and have a chat and have a coffee
446 00:30:52,760 00:30:55,320 and don't do anything you don't want to do, and don't do anything you don't want to do,
447 00:30:55,320 00:30:58,200 and then the next minute he's talking about essentially, erm, and then the next minute he's talking about essentially, erm,
448 00:30:58,200 00:30:59,480 me drinking his cum. me drinking his cum.
449 00:31:01,160 00:31:05,040 And the way that he's communicating, he's quite sophisticated. And the way that he's communicating, he's quite sophisticated.
450 00:31:05,040 00:31:07,720 He appears to be quite a good manipulator. He appears to be quite a good manipulator.
451 00:31:07,720 00:31:10,400 I don't think if you met him, I don't think if you met him,
452 00:31:10,400 00:31:13,040 erm, that you would have any idea potentially erm, that you would have any idea potentially
453 00:31:13,040 00:31:15,440 that he had a sexual interest in kids. that he had a sexual interest in kids.
454 00:31:15,440 00:31:17,400 And he'd be able to... And he'd be able to...
455 00:31:17,400 00:31:19,400 ..to hide in plain sight. ..to hide in plain sight.
456 00:31:19,400 00:31:23,480 Erm, he could be, you know, your next-door neighbour, Erm, he could be, you know, your next-door neighbour,
457 00:31:23,480 00:31:26,440 a bloke you meet down the pub or someone you work with, a bloke you meet down the pub or someone you work with,
458 00:31:26,440 00:31:29,480 and you wouldn't have potentially any inkling that, erm, and you wouldn't have potentially any inkling that, erm,
459 00:31:29,480 00:31:32,440 there was this side to him which he keeps under wraps. there was this side to him which he keeps under wraps.
460 00:31:33,800 00:31:38,200 I would categorise him as a high harm offender. I would categorise him as a high harm offender.
461 00:31:38,200 00:31:41,320 Denis Sweeney has arranged to take Oli to his partner's house Denis Sweeney has arranged to take Oli to his partner's house
462 00:31:41,320 00:31:43,960 to sexually abuse him while she is at work. to sexually abuse him while she is at work.
463 00:31:47,760 00:31:49,440 Erm, Up for fun... Erm, Up for fun...
464 00:31:50,720 00:31:55,600 With the meeting planned, the unit prepare to intercept and arrest. With the meeting planned, the unit prepare to intercept and arrest.
465 00:31:55,600 00:31:58,920 I'm assuming then that we're OK for Saturday? I'm assuming then that we're OK for Saturday?
466 00:31:58,920 00:32:01,880 I think it should be OK. I think it should be OK.
467 00:32:01,880 00:32:04,200 Got volunteers next door. Got volunteers next door.
468 00:32:04,200 00:32:06,120 So we should have enough people. So we should have enough people.
469 00:32:06,120 00:32:08,160 It's all, erm, positive. It's all, erm, positive.
470 00:32:08,160 00:32:11,840 He looks bang on, really. I'm pretty confident that he's going to meet. He looks bang on, really. I'm pretty confident that he's going to meet.
471 00:32:30,960 00:32:35,680 Worldwide, reports of images of child sexual abuse online Worldwide, reports of images of child sexual abuse online
472 00:32:35,680 00:32:38,240 have doubled in the last year. have doubled in the last year.
473 00:32:45,440 00:32:48,280 The electronic devices belonging to the suspect The electronic devices belonging to the suspect
474 00:32:48,280 00:32:51,200 arrested at the children's residential centre arrested at the children's residential centre
475 00:32:51,200 00:32:54,000 are being searched for incriminating evidence. are being searched for incriminating evidence.
476 00:33:00,440 00:33:02,040 Nothing on there. Nothing on there.
477 00:33:03,440 00:33:05,160 He's deleted everything. He's deleted everything.
478 00:33:07,080 00:33:10,320 When he was arrested When he was arrested
479 00:33:10,320 00:33:12,240 he basically had the tip-off, didn't he, he basically had the tip-off, didn't he,
480 00:33:12,240 00:33:16,240 that police were wanting to speak to him? Yeah. So he wiped his phone. that police were wanting to speak to him? Yeah. So he wiped his phone.
481 00:33:16,240 00:33:18,000 Done it to factory settings. Done it to factory settings.
482 00:33:18,000 00:33:22,480 And his laptop, it looks like he has, erm, deleted everything. And his laptop, it looks like he has, erm, deleted everything.
483 00:33:22,480 00:33:26,280 All we've got is the searching, none of the images. All we've got is the searching, none of the images.
484 00:33:26,280 00:33:28,640 There's no indecent material at all. There's no indecent material at all.
485 00:33:28,640 00:33:32,400 He's been looking at a Russian company which is a... He's been looking at a Russian company which is a...
486 00:33:32,400 00:33:34,760 ..a website purely for, ..a website purely for,
487 00:33:34,760 00:33:38,080 well, what we tend to see as children that have been exploited. well, what we tend to see as children that have been exploited.
488 00:33:38,080 00:33:40,520 And there's... And there's...
489 00:33:41,840 00:33:44,920 ..Sexy Little Things, Your Little Girl, ..Sexy Little Things, Your Little Girl,
490 00:33:44,920 00:33:48,520 Schoolgirls, Twin Sluts... Schoolgirls, Twin Sluts...
491 00:33:48,520 00:33:51,280 ..Crop-top Girls... ..Crop-top Girls...
492 00:33:51,280 00:33:54,760 If we'd gone there the day before, If we'd gone there the day before,
493 00:33:54,760 00:33:57,440 without the warrant or his parents, we would have got all this, without the warrant or his parents, we would have got all this,
494 00:33:57,440 00:33:59,880 all these images. 1,200 searches on that. all these images. 1,200 searches on that.
495 00:33:59,880 00:34:02,360 So potentially we would have had 1,200 images. So potentially we would have had 1,200 images.
496 00:34:02,360 00:34:05,800 So we've recaptured nothing from his phones cos he's wiped them? So we've recaptured nothing from his phones cos he's wiped them?
497 00:34:05,800 00:34:09,000 Yeah. Nothing from the computer cos he's wiped them, Yeah. Nothing from the computer cos he's wiped them,
498 00:34:09,000 00:34:11,360 so we're left with this? Yeah, that's it. so we're left with this? Yeah, that's it.
499 00:34:11,360 00:34:14,440 That was the chat... That was the chat we got when we first went out. That was the chat... That was the chat we got when we first went out.
500 00:34:14,440 00:34:15,600 That's it. That's it.
501 00:34:17,560 00:34:21,000 And there's no offence there as such, is there? Not really. And there's no offence there as such, is there? Not really.
502 00:34:21,000 00:34:22,720 Not that I can see. Not that I can see.
503 00:34:22,720 00:34:26,040 He seemed to make admissions in interview. Did it not count? He seemed to make admissions in interview. Did it not count?
504 00:34:27,120 00:34:29,400 The thing is, what does he admit to? The thing is, what does he admit to?
505 00:34:29,400 00:34:32,480 He admits to chatting with this guy. He admits to chatting with this guy.
506 00:34:32,480 00:34:34,840 That's not an offence in itself. That's not an offence in itself.
507 00:34:34,840 00:34:38,360 There has to be some sort of agreement to do something. There has to be some sort of agreement to do something.
508 00:34:38,360 00:34:41,200 Does this mean he's got away with this? Does this mean he's got away with this?
509 00:34:41,200 00:34:43,480 Yes, he's not going to go to prison. Yes, he's not going to go to prison.
510 00:34:43,480 00:34:47,040 But our success often times But our success often times
511 00:34:47,040 00:34:50,840 isn't necessarily judged on prison sentences. isn't necessarily judged on prison sentences.
512 00:34:50,840 00:34:53,720 Our success is judged on whether an offender Our success is judged on whether an offender
513 00:34:53,720 00:34:58,440 stops what they are doing and starts living a life stops what they are doing and starts living a life
514 00:34:58,440 00:35:00,720 where they are no longer a risk to children. where they are no longer a risk to children.
515 00:35:14,920 00:35:17,720 I.. I honestly hate myself. And... I.. I honestly hate myself. And...
516 00:35:20,800 00:35:24,600 ..I hate how selfish ..I hate how selfish
517 00:35:24,600 00:35:27,880 I've been throughout all of this. I've been throughout all of this.
518 00:35:27,880 00:35:29,720 Like... Like...
519 00:35:31,200 00:35:36,000 ..I didn't really ever... ..I didn't really ever...
520 00:35:36,000 00:35:39,720 ..consider why that child might be in that photo ..consider why that child might be in that photo
521 00:35:39,720 00:35:43,720 and kind of, the-the-the things that have led them there. and kind of, the-the-the things that have led them there.
522 00:35:43,720 00:35:47,480 And it wasn't until after I was arrested And it wasn't until after I was arrested
523 00:35:47,480 00:35:49,840 that I actually... that I actually...
524 00:35:49,840 00:35:54,960 ..properly started to see and think about the kind of... ..properly started to see and think about the kind of...
525 00:35:54,960 00:35:56,480 ..bigger picture. ..bigger picture.
526 00:35:59,280 00:36:01,880 My parents have been really, really supportive. My parents have been really, really supportive.
527 00:36:01,880 00:36:04,720 And I honestly don't know why. And I honestly don't know why.
528 00:36:05,960 00:36:07,720 It's got to be horrible for them, and... It's got to be horrible for them, and...
529 00:36:10,320 00:36:16,760 I lost a job that I actually enjoyed do-do.. doing. I lost a job that I actually enjoyed do-do.. doing.
530 00:36:16,760 00:36:21,160 And I know it's going to be unbelievable to people, And I know it's going to be unbelievable to people,
531 00:36:21,160 00:36:25,840 but it's not because of the actual children but it's not because of the actual children
532 00:36:25,840 00:36:28,040 that I did love that job so much. that I did love that job so much.
533 00:36:30,880 00:36:34,520 The police have said that once things are sorted The police have said that once things are sorted
534 00:36:34,520 00:36:37,600 that you can go on and live... that you can go on and live...
535 00:36:37,600 00:36:40,000 ..a-a normal life. ..a-a normal life.
536 00:36:40,000 00:36:41,600 But I-I-I... But I-I-I...
537 00:36:41,600 00:36:44,640 ..I just can't s-s-see it ..I just can't s-s-see it
538 00:36:44,640 00:36:46,040 at the moment. at the moment.
539 00:37:10,080 00:37:13,840 Denis Sweeney plans to meet Ollie in three days' time. Denis Sweeney plans to meet Ollie in three days' time.
540 00:37:35,600 00:37:40,000 So in terms in arrest and location. What are you thinking? So in terms in arrest and location. What are you thinking?
541 00:37:40,000 00:37:45,640 I'm going to meet him at Basildon coach station. I'm going to meet him at Basildon coach station.
542 00:37:45,640 00:37:49,200 Yeah, we've got a really good little plan for it. Yeah, we've got a really good little plan for it.
543 00:37:49,200 00:37:53,600 It's probably about 200m long. Ah, it's a bus station, isn't it? It's probably about 200m long. Ah, it's a bus station, isn't it?
544 00:37:53,600 00:37:56,680 Now, down around here, you've got a Wimpy, Now, down around here, you've got a Wimpy,
545 00:37:56,680 00:37:58,600 which is where his bus will get in. which is where his bus will get in.
546 00:37:59,880 00:38:02,320 Cover that end with people. OK. Cover that end. Cover that end with people. OK. Cover that end.
547 00:38:02,320 00:38:05,720 We could sit here, he turns up and starts looking around, We could sit here, he turns up and starts looking around,
548 00:38:05,720 00:38:08,560 and we can let either that one know or that one know, and we can let either that one know or that one know,
549 00:38:08,560 00:38:11,240 or they close in if they spot him beforehand. Yeah. or they close in if they spot him beforehand. Yeah.
550 00:38:29,080 00:38:30,280 Where are we heading? Where are we heading?
551 00:38:31,440 00:38:33,800 We're just going to go drive past the plot itself, We're just going to go drive past the plot itself,
552 00:38:33,800 00:38:36,560 so the bus station will be coming up just on the left-hand side. so the bus station will be coming up just on the left-hand side.
553 00:38:36,560 00:38:38,920 The arrest team are now out on foot, The arrest team are now out on foot,
554 00:38:38,920 00:38:41,400 so they'll be plotted up at either end of the bus station. so they'll be plotted up at either end of the bus station.
555 00:38:48,280 00:38:51,080 Hello, mate. You all right? Yeah, yeah. Ah, I'm living it, mate. Hello, mate. You all right? Yeah, yeah. Ah, I'm living it, mate.
556 00:38:51,080 00:38:53,440 Living it. You got the view? Got the what? Living it. You got the view? Got the what?
557 00:38:53,440 00:38:56,800 Have you got the view in the front of the Wimpy? Yeah, yeah. All good. Have you got the view in the front of the Wimpy? Yeah, yeah. All good.
558 00:38:56,800 00:38:58,600 All right, mate. Nice one. All right, mate. Nice one.
559 00:38:58,600 00:39:02,520 The arrest operation is being run by a senior undercover officer. The arrest operation is being run by a senior undercover officer.
560 00:39:02,520 00:39:03,760 No worries. No worries.
561 00:39:03,760 00:39:07,320 When it comes to the time that you two are content to call the word, When it comes to the time that you two are content to call the word,
562 00:39:07,320 00:39:09,760 can you phone it in to me, mate? Yeah. can you phone it in to me, mate? Yeah.
563 00:39:09,760 00:39:12,120 It's just purely so that I can obviously It's just purely so that I can obviously
564 00:39:12,120 00:39:14,000 liaise with the arrest team. liaise with the arrest team.
565 00:39:14,000 00:39:16,640 He'll coordinate the undercover operative on the ground... He'll coordinate the undercover operative on the ground...
566 00:39:16,640 00:39:17,880 Cheers, mate. Bye-bye. Cheers, mate. Bye-bye.
567 00:39:17,880 00:39:20,160 ..and the strike team who will make the arrest. ..and the strike team who will make the arrest.
568 00:39:23,120 00:39:25,720 What do you think today's subject's doing right now? What do you think today's subject's doing right now?
569 00:39:25,720 00:39:28,280 You know, I think if the subject's been true to us, You know, I think if the subject's been true to us,
570 00:39:28,280 00:39:31,720 then he would have left work about ten minutes ago. then he would have left work about ten minutes ago.
571 00:39:31,720 00:39:34,520 I would... I would...
572 00:39:34,520 00:39:37,680 ..suggest he'd be nervous, cos it will go through their mind, ..suggest he'd be nervous, cos it will go through their mind,
573 00:39:37,680 00:39:40,200 "Is this a set-up?" "Is this a set-up?"
574 00:39:40,200 00:39:42,560 We've had one who said in an interview that he We've had one who said in an interview that he
575 00:39:42,560 00:39:44,040 looked at a photograph of his own two kids looked at a photograph of his own two kids
576 00:39:44,040 00:39:46,560 on the side of the mantelpiece as he's walking out the front door on the side of the mantelpiece as he's walking out the front door
577 00:39:46,560 00:39:47,920 and he's thought to himself, and he's thought to himself,
578 00:39:47,920 00:39:50,280 "This may be the last time that I ever see them." "This may be the last time that I ever see them."
579 00:39:50,280 00:39:54,600 However, the urge and the desire to fulfil his sexual needs was However, the urge and the desire to fulfil his sexual needs was
580 00:39:54,600 00:39:56,880 so great that he was willing to... so great that he was willing to...
581 00:39:56,880 00:39:58,040 Well, he did in the end, Well, he did in the end,
582 00:39:58,040 00:40:00,480 throw away his relationship with his own children. throw away his relationship with his own children.
583 00:40:25,120 00:40:28,000 Hello, mate. Hello. Just a little update for you. Yeah? Hello, mate. Hello. Just a little update for you. Yeah?
584 00:40:28,000 00:40:30,760 He said he's nearly with us and he's going to meet us at the bus. He said he's nearly with us and he's going to meet us at the bus.
585 00:40:30,760 00:40:31,920 Right, OK. Right, OK.
586 00:40:31,920 00:40:34,280 He will settle at some point, so we'll just wait for him He will settle at some point, so we'll just wait for him
587 00:40:34,280 00:40:36,480 to come into the plot and we'll nick him then. to come into the plot and we'll nick him then.
588 00:40:41,680 00:40:43,280 PHONE RINGS PHONE RINGS
589 00:40:44,760 00:40:45,760 Hello? Hello?
590 00:40:47,000 00:40:50,280 All right, we got him, mate. He's on a bike. Brilliant, yeah. All right, we got him, mate. He's on a bike. Brilliant, yeah.
591 00:40:50,280 00:40:54,280 He's on a bike with a grey fleece, like a light beige fleece. Yeah. He's on a bike with a grey fleece, like a light beige fleece. Yeah.
592 00:40:54,280 00:40:57,400 And a rucksack on his back. OK, mate. I'll let him know. Bye. And a rucksack on his back. OK, mate. I'll let him know. Bye.
593 00:40:57,400 00:41:00,160 All right, he's on the bike. He's well obvious. All right, mate. All right, he's on the bike. He's well obvious. All right, mate.
594 00:41:00,160 00:41:02,440 Cheers. Cheers.
595 00:41:02,440 00:41:03,880 Hello, mate. He's here. Hello, mate. He's here.
596 00:41:03,880 00:41:05,920 He's on a push bike wearing a beige jacket He's on a push bike wearing a beige jacket
597 00:41:05,920 00:41:07,640 and he's just gone into the bus depot. and he's just gone into the bus depot.
598 00:41:25,480 00:41:26,840 Why? Why?
599 00:41:43,040 00:41:46,880 Hello? Yeah, got him. Oh, lovely. Job well done, mate. Hello? Yeah, got him. Oh, lovely. Job well done, mate.
600 00:41:51,360 00:41:54,600 Police have the evidence to charge and remand Denis Sweeney. Police have the evidence to charge and remand Denis Sweeney.
601 00:41:57,040 00:41:59,400 Hello, mate. One in custody. Hello, mate. One in custody.
602 00:41:59,400 00:42:01,840 I'm going to take my team back and we'll start putting together I'm going to take my team back and we'll start putting together
603 00:42:01,840 00:42:05,240 an evidential package for you, which will get sent across. OK, mate. an evidential package for you, which will get sent across. OK, mate.
604 00:42:05,240 00:42:08,080 Thank you very much. All right, see you later. Bye. Thank you very much. All right, see you later. Bye.
605 00:42:11,600 00:42:13,960 Perfect. Perfect.
606 00:42:13,960 00:42:16,920 What might he be looking at as a sentence? What might he be looking at as a sentence?
607 00:42:16,920 00:42:20,680 In 2017, I would have told you five years plus. In 2017, I would have told you five years plus.
608 00:42:20,680 00:42:22,960 Now, I simply don't know. Now, I simply don't know.
609 00:42:22,960 00:42:25,640 After the issues we had last year, After the issues we had last year,
610 00:42:25,640 00:42:27,560 with judges handing out what I would say are with judges handing out what I would say are
611 00:42:27,560 00:42:29,480 ridiculously low sentences... ridiculously low sentences...
612 00:42:29,480 00:42:31,840 So in one case we got a single year for someone So in one case we got a single year for someone
613 00:42:31,840 00:42:35,480 who travelled hundreds of miles to abuse a young child. who travelled hundreds of miles to abuse a young child.
614 00:42:35,480 00:42:37,120 That doesn't make any sense to me. That doesn't make any sense to me.
615 00:42:40,720 00:42:43,200 You can't tell me that someone seeking to abuse a child You can't tell me that someone seeking to abuse a child
616 00:42:43,200 00:42:47,120 doesn't present a risk to children or society, doesn't present a risk to children or society,
617 00:42:47,120 00:42:50,000 and therefore, it should be dealt with in such a lenient way. and therefore, it should be dealt with in such a lenient way.
618 00:43:08,160 00:43:10,520 "Paedo snared on dating app. "Paedo snared on dating app.
619 00:43:12,200 00:43:16,600 "Sweeney appeared at Basildon Crown Court on Friday for sentencing. "Sweeney appeared at Basildon Crown Court on Friday for sentencing.
620 00:43:16,600 00:43:18,400 "He dressed in a grey suit and blue tie, "He dressed in a grey suit and blue tie,
621 00:43:18,400 00:43:21,080 "speaking only to confirm his name and date of birth. "speaking only to confirm his name and date of birth.
622 00:43:21,080 00:43:24,960 "Mitigation for Sweeney said he was remorseful for his actions "Mitigation for Sweeney said he was remorseful for his actions
623 00:43:24,960 00:43:27,360 "and that it was an isolated incident. "and that it was an isolated incident.
624 00:43:27,360 00:43:30,480 "Due to his six months of time already served, "Due to his six months of time already served,
625 00:43:30,480 00:43:33,760 "and so that he can complete a rehabilitation course, "and so that he can complete a rehabilitation course,
626 00:43:33,760 00:43:36,400 "the judge chose to get Sweeney a community order." "the judge chose to get Sweeney a community order."
627 00:43:37,600 00:43:39,240 What do you think of the sentence? What do you think of the sentence?
628 00:43:40,480 00:43:42,840 Um, very disappointing. Um, very disappointing.
629 00:43:42,840 00:43:47,960 I can't think of hardly any crime worse than that which he was I can't think of hardly any crime worse than that which he was
630 00:43:47,960 00:43:50,320 intending to commit. intending to commit.
631 00:43:50,320 00:43:55,120 And to be given a noncustodial outcome, I think is... And to be given a noncustodial outcome, I think is...
632 00:43:56,400 00:43:57,520 ..madness. ..madness.
633 00:43:58,960 00:44:01,640 So what have you been up to since Denis Sweeney's arrest? So what have you been up to since Denis Sweeney's arrest?
634 00:44:02,800 00:44:07,120 I've been deploying on the same platform, I've been deploying on the same platform,
635 00:44:07,120 00:44:08,560 Grindr. Grindr.
636 00:44:08,560 00:44:11,040 How many people with a sexual interest in children do think How many people with a sexual interest in children do think
637 00:44:11,040 00:44:14,640 you've spoken to? Oh, hundreds I would suggest. you've spoken to? Oh, hundreds I would suggest.
638 00:44:14,640 00:44:17,920 There's a lot of them, and that's just on one site. There's a lot of them, and that's just on one site.
639 00:44:17,920 00:44:20,280 If you multiply that by all the different platforms If you multiply that by all the different platforms
640 00:44:20,280 00:44:22,760 that are out there and all the different regions in the UK, that are out there and all the different regions in the UK,
641 00:44:22,760 00:44:25,360 then it's pretty mind-boggling. then it's pretty mind-boggling.
642 00:44:25,360 00:44:28,280 This isn't something that's going to go away, This isn't something that's going to go away,
643 00:44:28,280 00:44:31,000 you can't arrest your way out of this problem you can't arrest your way out of this problem
644 00:44:31,000 00:44:34,600 because for every person that you identify... because for every person that you identify...
645 00:44:34,600 00:44:37,600 ..who's got a sexual interest and wants to exploit children, ..who's got a sexual interest and wants to exploit children,
646 00:44:37,600 00:44:42,280 there will be a number to fill their space. there will be a number to fill their space.
647 00:44:44,000 00:44:46,920 So if the police can't stop this on their own, So if the police can't stop this on their own,
648 00:44:46,920 00:44:48,680 what are we going to do about it? what are we going to do about it?
649 00:44:48,680 00:44:51,040 Well, I think the social media sites have to take Well, I think the social media sites have to take
650 00:44:51,040 00:44:54,680 responsibility for what's going on on their platforms. responsibility for what's going on on their platforms.
651 00:44:54,680 00:44:57,600 They need to do a lot more around age verification. They need to do a lot more around age verification.
652 00:44:57,600 00:44:59,000 It's not robust enough. It's not robust enough.
653 00:44:59,000 00:45:01,760 And they need to spend more money on their moderators. And they need to spend more money on their moderators.
654 00:45:04,400 00:45:07,480 But as a society, we've got to come to terms with the fact But as a society, we've got to come to terms with the fact
655 00:45:07,480 00:45:10,160 there are some appalling things going on online. there are some appalling things going on online.
656 00:45:11,640 00:45:14,560 We've got to start talking about this in the open. We've got to start talking about this in the open.
657 00:45:14,560 00:45:16,480 how much more are we going to tolerate? how much more are we going to tolerate?
657 00:45:14,560 00:45:16,480 how much more are we going to tolerate? how much more are we going to tolerate?