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1 | 00:00:02,720 | 00:00:09,160 | From the start, this programme contains strong language and images, | From the start, this programme contains strong language and images, |
2 | 00:00:09,160 | 00:00:13,960 | and descriptions of paedophilic sexual behaviour, | and descriptions of paedophilic sexual behaviour, |
3 | 00:00:13,960 | 00:00:20,240 | which some viewers will find disturbing. | which some viewers will find disturbing. |
4 | 00:00:47,720 | 00:00:49,680 | You all right? | You all right? |
5 | 00:00:52,160 | 00:00:56,560 | So you guys have got a view in front of the KFC, yeah? | So you guys have got a view in front of the KFC, yeah? |
6 | 00:00:56,560 | 00:00:58,840 | All right, mate. Speak to you in a bit. | All right, mate. Speak to you in a bit. |
7 | 00:00:58,840 | 00:01:00,320 | Bye. Bye. | Bye. Bye. |
8 | 00:01:00,320 | 00:01:03,920 | As a team, the tactics that we're employing, we're successful at. | As a team, the tactics that we're employing, we're successful at. |
9 | 00:01:03,920 | 00:01:07,760 | There is nowhere online where subjects can go | There is nowhere online where subjects can go |
10 | 00:01:07,760 | 00:01:11,320 | and speak to children without us being there to try and stop them. | and speak to children without us being there to try and stop them. |
11 | 00:01:11,320 | 00:01:13,880 | There's no hiding places. | There's no hiding places. |
12 | 00:01:13,880 | 00:01:15,280 | Hello? | Hello? |
13 | 00:01:15,280 | 00:01:17,160 | All right. Go on, mate. | All right. Go on, mate. |
14 | 00:01:20,960 | 00:01:23,800 | Yeah. Do you want them to go? Yeah, go. Yeah, go, go, go. | Yeah. Do you want them to go? Yeah, go. Yeah, go, go, go. |
15 | 00:01:23,800 | 00:01:25,200 | Ready? | Ready? |
16 | 00:01:30,880 | 00:01:32,640 | They're on their way, mate. | They're on their way, mate. |
17 | 00:01:49,600 | 00:01:52,520 | All right, hands away from the steering wheel. Sorry? | All right, hands away from the steering wheel. Sorry? |
18 | 00:01:52,520 | 00:01:55,240 | Bedfordshire Police. Hands away from the steering wheel. | Bedfordshire Police. Hands away from the steering wheel. |
19 | 00:01:55,240 | 00:01:57,280 | Just step out the car for us. | Just step out the car for us. |
20 | 00:01:57,280 | 00:01:59,640 | Give us the keys. What's your name? | Give us the keys. What's your name? |
21 | 00:01:59,640 | 00:02:02,000 | Steve Johnson. Sorry, what...? Just take those. OK. | Steve Johnson. Sorry, what...? Just take those. OK. |
22 | 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:04,600 | Steve Johnson, my name's Paul Fitzharris. | Steve Johnson, my name's Paul Fitzharris. |
23 | 00:02:04,600 | 00:02:07,680 | I'm a detective constable with Bedfordshire Police. OK? | I'm a detective constable with Bedfordshire Police. OK? |
24 | 00:02:07,680 | 00:02:09,640 | I'm going to formally arrest you, OK? | I'm going to formally arrest you, OK? |
25 | 00:02:09,640 | 00:02:11,160 | What have you got in your pockets? | What have you got in your pockets? |
26 | 00:02:11,160 | 00:02:13,520 | There's nothing in your pockets there? Just my wallet. | There's nothing in your pockets there? Just my wallet. |
27 | 00:02:13,520 | 00:02:16,000 | Just your wallet, OK? I'm going to formally arrest you, OK, | Just your wallet, OK? I'm going to formally arrest you, OK, |
28 | 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,960 | for the following offences, OK, so you need to listen careful. | for the following offences, OK, so you need to listen careful. |
29 | 00:02:18,960 | 00:02:21,320 | Sexual communication with a child, OK? | Sexual communication with a child, OK? |
30 | 00:02:21,320 | 00:02:25,400 | Arranging and facilitating a child sex offence, OK? | Arranging and facilitating a child sex offence, OK? |
31 | 00:02:25,400 | 00:02:29,800 | And meeting a child following sexual grooming, OK? | And meeting a child following sexual grooming, OK? |
32 | 00:02:29,800 | 00:02:31,560 | So you do not have to say anything, | So you do not have to say anything, |
33 | 00:02:31,560 | 00:02:34,160 | but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned | but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned |
34 | 00:02:34,160 | 00:02:36,440 | something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say | something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say |
35 | 00:02:36,440 | 00:02:38,080 | may be given in evidence, all right? | may be given in evidence, all right? |
36 | 00:02:38,080 | 00:02:40,760 | So you'll be placed into handcuffs. Put your hands in front of you. | So you'll be placed into handcuffs. Put your hands in front of you. |
37 | 00:02:40,760 | 00:02:43,720 | I can't do this. OK. You can do it. OK? Come on... Whoa, whoa, whoa. | I can't do this. OK. You can do it. OK? Come on... Whoa, whoa, whoa. |
38 | 00:02:43,720 | 00:02:45,760 | Whoa, whoa, whoa! Calm down. | Whoa, whoa, whoa! Calm down. |
39 | 00:02:45,760 | 00:02:48,040 | Shall I get your sunglasses? Calm down. Calm down. | Shall I get your sunglasses? Calm down. Calm down. |
40 | 00:02:48,040 | 00:02:49,640 | Calm down, all right? | Calm down, all right? |
41 | 00:02:49,640 | 00:02:52,000 | Just give me your hand. Come on! | Just give me your hand. Come on! |
42 | 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,480 | OK. So you've heard what you've been arrested for, OK. | OK. So you've heard what you've been arrested for, OK. |
43 | 00:02:54,480 | 00:02:57,320 | What's going to happen next is we're going to the car, | What's going to happen next is we're going to the car, |
44 | 00:02:57,320 | 00:03:00,240 | in the back of the car. All right? And we'll have a chat, all right? | in the back of the car. All right? And we'll have a chat, all right? |
45 | 00:03:00,240 | 00:03:02,760 | OK. We'll lock your car up and all that. All right? | OK. We'll lock your car up and all that. All right? |
46 | 00:03:02,760 | 00:03:05,840 | Have you got anything else on you? No. What's your first name again? | Have you got anything else on you? No. What's your first name again? |
47 | 00:03:05,840 | 00:03:08,480 | Steven. OK, Steven, we're just going to come over here. | Steven. OK, Steven, we're just going to come over here. |
48 | 00:03:08,480 | 00:03:10,040 | For some of these individuals, | For some of these individuals, |
49 | 00:03:10,040 | 00:03:12,720 | this may be the first time that they've been arrested. | this may be the first time that they've been arrested. |
50 | 00:03:12,720 | 00:03:14,680 | They're not what you would characterise | They're not what you would characterise |
51 | 00:03:14,680 | 00:03:17,520 | as your hardened criminals that are getting nicked | as your hardened criminals that are getting nicked |
52 | 00:03:17,520 | 00:03:19,160 | on a regular basis. | on a regular basis. |
53 | 00:03:19,160 | 00:03:21,440 | The typical reaction tends to be | The typical reaction tends to be |
54 | 00:03:21,440 | 00:03:23,440 | one of complete shock, | one of complete shock, |
55 | 00:03:23,440 | 00:03:25,720 | because they just don't see it coming. | because they just don't see it coming. |
56 | 00:03:29,200 | 00:03:30,600 | Stand up, stand up. | Stand up, stand up. |
57 | 00:03:30,600 | 00:03:32,400 | Just breathe, just breathe. | Just breathe, just breathe. |
58 | 00:03:32,400 | 00:03:34,880 | OK, you're all right. You're all right. | OK, you're all right. You're all right. |
59 | 00:03:34,880 | 00:03:35,920 | Yeah? | Yeah? |
60 | 00:03:35,920 | 00:03:37,520 | HE GASPS | HE GASPS |
61 | 00:03:39,360 | 00:03:41,160 | All right? | All right? |
62 | 00:03:41,160 | 00:03:44,120 | OK. We're going to come over to the desk over here. | OK. We're going to come over to the desk over here. |
63 | 00:03:47,840 | 00:03:49,400 | Yeah. | Yeah. |
64 | 00:03:50,800 | 00:03:52,520 | No. | No. |
65 | 00:03:52,520 | 00:03:55,720 | Steven Johnson, who works as a teaching assistant, | Steven Johnson, who works as a teaching assistant, |
66 | 00:03:55,720 | 00:03:58,360 | is arrested in an undercover sting | is arrested in an undercover sting |
67 | 00:03:58,360 | 00:04:02,120 | for planning to meet and have sex with a 14-year-old boy. | for planning to meet and have sex with a 14-year-old boy. |
68 | 00:04:04,960 | 00:04:07,320 | HE EXHALES | HE EXHALES |
69 | 00:04:07,320 | 00:04:09,960 | If you feel faint or anything like that, you need to tell us, | If you feel faint or anything like that, you need to tell us, |
70 | 00:04:09,960 | 00:04:11,800 | all right? I feel a bit nausic. Yeah? OK. | all right? I feel a bit nausic. Yeah? OK. |
71 | 00:04:13,160 | 00:04:16,080 | Do you want some more water? Yes, please. Yeah? | Do you want some more water? Yes, please. Yeah? |
72 | 00:04:19,480 | 00:04:21,320 | Whoa, whoa, whoa. | Whoa, whoa, whoa. |
73 | 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:25,360 | All right. All right. All right. | All right. All right. All right. |
74 | 00:04:25,360 | 00:04:27,840 | That's it. Just open your eyes for me. Open your eyes. | That's it. Just open your eyes for me. Open your eyes. |
75 | 00:04:27,840 | 00:04:29,680 | It's all right. Open your eyes. | It's all right. Open your eyes. |
76 | 00:04:29,680 | 00:04:32,560 | Open your eyes. All right. Just breathe. Big deep breaths. | Open your eyes. All right. Just breathe. Big deep breaths. |
77 | 00:04:35,200 | 00:04:37,600 | UNDERCOVER OFFICER: If you're arrested for an offence | UNDERCOVER OFFICER: If you're arrested for an offence |
78 | 00:04:37,600 | 00:04:41,040 | of this type, because it's so emotive, the impact is huge. | of this type, because it's so emotive, the impact is huge. |
79 | 00:04:41,040 | 00:04:44,520 | Apart from the fact that they're facing a significant sentence, | Apart from the fact that they're facing a significant sentence, |
80 | 00:04:44,520 | 00:04:47,520 | they're probably gonna lose their family life, | they're probably gonna lose their family life, |
81 | 00:04:47,520 | 00:04:51,440 | their job, their standing in the community. It's enormous. | their job, their standing in the community. It's enormous. |
82 | 00:04:51,440 | 00:04:53,120 | That's it. OK. | That's it. OK. |
83 | 00:04:53,120 | 00:04:54,800 | Big deep breaths. | Big deep breaths. |
84 | 00:04:54,800 | 00:04:57,800 | We've got a duty of care to the people we arrest. | We've got a duty of care to the people we arrest. |
85 | 00:04:57,800 | 00:05:00,080 | It's not lost on us, | It's not lost on us, |
86 | 00:05:00,080 | 00:05:02,800 | the human element to this job. | the human element to this job. |
87 | 00:05:07,320 | 00:05:09,320 | HE SOBS | HE SOBS |
88 | 00:05:09,320 | 00:05:11,520 | Take your time, Steven. Have a drink. | Take your time, Steven. Have a drink. |
89 | 00:05:17,200 | 00:05:19,560 | You know, if this is a one-off, Steven, | You know, if this is a one-off, Steven, |
90 | 00:05:19,560 | 00:05:22,200 | we can put that point across. Yeah? | we can put that point across. Yeah? |
91 | 00:05:26,840 | 00:05:29,320 | How old did you believe him to be? | How old did you believe him to be? |
92 | 00:05:31,800 | 00:05:33,440 | OK. | OK. |
93 | 00:05:36,360 | 00:05:38,200 | OK. | OK. |
94 | 00:05:38,200 | 00:05:40,680 | Even though he said he was 14, | Even though he said he was 14, |
95 | 00:05:40,680 | 00:05:43,040 | what made you think he was 18? | what made you think he was 18? |
96 | 00:05:46,840 | 00:05:49,920 | I think it's fair to know that you didn't think he was 18. | I think it's fair to know that you didn't think he was 18. |
97 | 00:05:49,920 | 00:05:52,320 | You may have initially thought he was, | You may have initially thought he was, |
98 | 00:05:52,320 | 00:05:55,360 | but once he said he was 14, said he had to go to school, | but once he said he was 14, said he had to go to school, |
99 | 00:05:55,360 | 00:05:57,640 | you're picking him up in a KFC car park, | you're picking him up in a KFC car park, |
100 | 00:05:57,640 | 00:05:59,200 | you knew he was 14. | you knew he was 14. |
101 | 00:05:59,200 | 00:06:02,400 | Tell me why there were two condoms in your wallet this afternoon. | Tell me why there were two condoms in your wallet this afternoon. |
102 | 00:06:16,240 | 00:06:19,240 | Mr Johnson, the CPS have been consulted | Mr Johnson, the CPS have been consulted |
103 | 00:06:19,240 | 00:06:22,560 | and they've asked that you be charged with two offences. | and they've asked that you be charged with two offences. |
104 | 00:06:22,560 | 00:06:25,720 | This officer will read out those charges to you now. Mmm. | This officer will read out those charges to you now. Mmm. |
105 | 00:06:25,720 | 00:06:30,400 | On 24th June 2019 at Dunstable in the county of Bedfordshire... | On 24th June 2019 at Dunstable in the county of Bedfordshire... |
106 | 00:06:30,400 | 00:06:34,800 | Steven Johnson faces a prison sentence for his crime. | Steven Johnson faces a prison sentence for his crime. |
107 | 00:06:34,800 | 00:06:37,960 | ..the person that you were communicating with | ..the person that you were communicating with |
108 | 00:06:37,960 | 00:06:39,880 | was an undercover officer. | was an undercover officer. |
109 | 00:06:39,880 | 00:06:41,920 | An undercover police officer. | An undercover police officer. |
110 | 00:06:41,920 | 00:06:42,960 | OK? | OK? |
111 | 00:06:42,960 | 00:06:45,800 | So it wasn't a real child, luckily, | So it wasn't a real child, luckily, |
112 | 00:06:45,800 | 00:06:49,560 | however it could have been quite easily... | however it could have been quite easily... |
113 | 00:06:49,560 | 00:06:52,480 | The authorities estimate 300,000 people | The authorities estimate 300,000 people |
114 | 00:06:52,480 | 00:06:54,760 | pose a sexual threat to children. | pose a sexual threat to children. |
115 | 00:06:54,760 | 00:06:56,520 | If they were all caught, | If they were all caught, |
116 | 00:06:56,520 | 00:07:00,000 | the UK's prisons could be filled four times over. | the UK's prisons could be filled four times over. |
117 | 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:03,280 | OK. So you'll be staying with us tonight | OK. So you'll be staying with us tonight |
118 | 00:07:03,280 | 00:07:05,080 | and have court tomorrow morning. | and have court tomorrow morning. |
119 | 00:07:05,080 | 00:07:08,520 | Bail is refused to prevent further offences to young people... | Bail is refused to prevent further offences to young people... |
120 | 00:07:08,520 | 00:07:11,520 | UNDERCOVER OFFICER: The opportunity for adults to have access | UNDERCOVER OFFICER: The opportunity for adults to have access |
121 | 00:07:11,520 | 00:07:13,880 | to children, to talk to them sexually, | to children, to talk to them sexually, |
122 | 00:07:13,880 | 00:07:16,400 | has increased ridiculously over the last few years | has increased ridiculously over the last few years |
123 | 00:07:16,400 | 00:07:18,680 | due to the explosion of social media. | due to the explosion of social media. |
124 | 00:07:18,680 | 00:07:20,960 | Unfortunately, with the internet, | Unfortunately, with the internet, |
125 | 00:07:20,960 | 00:07:23,960 | we've opened Pandora's box | we've opened Pandora's box |
126 | 00:07:23,960 | 00:07:26,640 | and it's very hard to put the lid back on it, really. | and it's very hard to put the lid back on it, really. |
127 | 00:07:26,640 | 00:07:30,160 | Do you want anything to eat? No. No, I don't think so. | Do you want anything to eat? No. No, I don't think so. |
128 | 00:07:30,160 | 00:07:34,000 | Do you think you would have seen someone like Steven Johnson | Do you think you would have seen someone like Steven Johnson |
129 | 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:35,400 | before social media? | before social media? |
130 | 00:07:35,400 | 00:07:37,280 | Less likely, I'd say. | Less likely, I'd say. |
131 | 00:07:37,280 | 00:07:39,560 | You go back 10, 15 years ago, | You go back 10, 15 years ago, |
132 | 00:07:39,560 | 00:07:41,920 | people didn't have smartphones. | people didn't have smartphones. |
133 | 00:07:41,920 | 00:07:45,280 | Everyone's got them now. Pretty much every child. | Everyone's got them now. Pretty much every child. |
134 | 00:07:45,280 | 00:07:47,800 | 12, 13 years and upwards, they've all got them... | 12, 13 years and upwards, they've all got them... |
135 | 00:07:47,800 | 00:07:49,920 | OK. Do you want to come this way? | OK. Do you want to come this way? |
136 | 00:07:49,920 | 00:07:55,200 | ..so they're much more accessible to people like him. | ..so they're much more accessible to people like him. |
137 | 00:08:04,600 | 00:08:07,920 | With child sexual abuse moving online, | With child sexual abuse moving online, |
138 | 00:08:07,920 | 00:08:09,920 | the police are following, | the police are following, |
139 | 00:08:09,920 | 00:08:13,280 | targeting offenders using undercover operatives. | targeting offenders using undercover operatives. |
140 | 00:08:32,520 | 00:08:37,120 | I am online as a 14-year-old boy called Oli. | I am online as a 14-year-old boy called Oli. |
141 | 00:08:37,120 | 00:08:39,440 | I live with my mum. | I live with my mum. |
142 | 00:08:39,440 | 00:08:41,800 | I do still see my dad. | I do still see my dad. |
143 | 00:08:41,800 | 00:08:46,600 | And I'm looking to meet an older guy to sort of show me the ropes. | And I'm looking to meet an older guy to sort of show me the ropes. |
144 | 00:08:53,560 | 00:08:55,520 | Um, I'm on Grindr, | Um, I'm on Grindr, |
145 | 00:08:55,520 | 00:08:59,480 | which is a gay hook-up chat site. | which is a gay hook-up chat site. |
146 | 00:09:01,400 | 00:09:05,400 | The way it's designed it's so that you could see | The way it's designed it's so that you could see |
147 | 00:09:05,400 | 00:09:08,160 | people that are in close proximity to where you are. | people that are in close proximity to where you are. |
148 | 00:09:08,160 | 00:09:10,720 | It's all about meeting up with people who are | It's all about meeting up with people who are |
149 | 00:09:10,720 | 00:09:12,920 | geographically close for sex. | geographically close for sex. |
150 | 00:09:14,160 | 00:09:16,520 | So can anyone open an account on Grindr? | So can anyone open an account on Grindr? |
151 | 00:09:16,520 | 00:09:20,960 | I mean, clearly, Grindr is a site designed for adults. | I mean, clearly, Grindr is a site designed for adults. |
152 | 00:09:20,960 | 00:09:24,200 | You need to be 18 to be able to join it. | You need to be 18 to be able to join it. |
153 | 00:09:24,200 | 00:09:27,120 | However, you can be any age. There's no verification, | However, you can be any age. There's no verification, |
154 | 00:09:27,120 | 00:09:28,880 | there's no checking, | there's no checking, |
155 | 00:09:28,880 | 00:09:31,440 | so I put in the age that I want to be, | so I put in the age that I want to be, |
156 | 00:09:31,440 | 00:09:34,560 | and to all intents and purposes, that's it. | and to all intents and purposes, that's it. |
157 | 00:09:34,560 | 00:09:38,800 | It's equivalent to a sex club having door staff on the door. | It's equivalent to a sex club having door staff on the door. |
158 | 00:09:40,520 | 00:09:42,800 | But they're not checking any IDs. | But they're not checking any IDs. |
159 | 00:09:42,800 | 00:09:45,840 | And you can walk in as 12-year-old, | And you can walk in as 12-year-old, |
160 | 00:09:45,840 | 00:09:47,360 | as a 14-year-old, | as a 14-year-old, |
161 | 00:09:47,360 | 00:09:48,920 | as an 8-year-old. | as an 8-year-old. |
162 | 00:09:52,080 | 00:09:54,560 | If it's a website for over-18s, | If it's a website for over-18s, |
163 | 00:09:54,560 | 00:09:57,760 | other users might assume you're an adult. Is that fair? | other users might assume you're an adult. Is that fair? |
164 | 00:10:00,120 | 00:10:03,080 | Um, we know from intelligence reports | Um, we know from intelligence reports |
165 | 00:10:03,080 | 00:10:06,120 | that sites such as Grindr will have children on them. | that sites such as Grindr will have children on them. |
166 | 00:10:06,120 | 00:10:08,800 | We know that there's child sex exploitation going on | We know that there's child sex exploitation going on |
167 | 00:10:08,800 | 00:10:12,520 | on platforms such as Grindr as we speak. | on platforms such as Grindr as we speak. |
168 | 00:10:14,400 | 00:10:16,680 | When I'm speaking to a new subject, | When I'm speaking to a new subject, |
169 | 00:10:16,680 | 00:10:18,160 | I tell them I'm 14. | I tell them I'm 14. |
170 | 00:10:19,440 | 00:10:21,520 | Once I put my age out there, | Once I put my age out there, |
171 | 00:10:21,520 | 00:10:24,560 | the majority - which is a good thing - | the majority - which is a good thing - |
172 | 00:10:24,560 | 00:10:28,000 | are walking away saying, "Thank you very much. Too young for me." | are walking away saying, "Thank you very much. Too young for me." |
173 | 00:10:29,360 | 00:10:31,560 | Clearly, that's not always the case. | Clearly, that's not always the case. |
174 | 00:10:36,440 | 00:10:38,880 | This one, he says he's 30. | This one, he says he's 30. |
175 | 00:10:38,880 | 00:10:40,760 | I said I'm 14. | I said I'm 14. |
176 | 00:10:40,760 | 00:10:43,640 | He says, "Naughty boy, being on here." | He says, "Naughty boy, being on here." |
177 | 00:10:43,640 | 00:10:45,240 | Who is he? | Who is he? |
178 | 00:10:45,240 | 00:10:49,600 | The subject's using the tagline "up for fun". | The subject's using the tagline "up for fun". |
179 | 00:10:49,600 | 00:10:51,520 | I'll keep chatting to him, | I'll keep chatting to him, |
180 | 00:10:51,520 | 00:10:53,480 | see how things move on. | see how things move on. |
181 | 00:11:03,120 | 00:11:07,160 | He's sent me four images, | He's sent me four images, |
182 | 00:11:07,160 | 00:11:10,920 | one would appear to be his erect penis through his trousers, | one would appear to be his erect penis through his trousers, |
183 | 00:11:10,920 | 00:11:13,480 | and displaying his penis, while it's not erect, | and displaying his penis, while it's not erect, |
184 | 00:11:13,480 | 00:11:15,360 | and then one with an erect penis. | and then one with an erect penis. |
185 | 00:11:15,360 | 00:11:17,640 | He's already aware of my age, | He's already aware of my age, |
186 | 00:11:17,640 | 00:11:19,440 | we're having a sexualised chat. | we're having a sexualised chat. |
187 | 00:11:23,560 | 00:11:27,040 | I will build a picture about this individual to find out who he is. | I will build a picture about this individual to find out who he is. |
188 | 00:11:27,040 | 00:11:30,320 | He's clearly got a sexual interest in children. | He's clearly got a sexual interest in children. |
189 | 00:11:51,070 | 00:11:53,430 | Right, Up For Fun. | Right, Up For Fun. |
190 | 00:11:53,430 | 00:11:56,790 | Is he the one who sent pictures of his penis? Yeah. | Is he the one who sent pictures of his penis? Yeah. |
191 | 00:11:56,790 | 00:11:58,470 | Or someone's penis. Yeah. Yeah. | Or someone's penis. Yeah. Yeah. |
192 | 00:12:00,670 | 00:12:05,230 | DS Andy Nash of the eastern region special operations unit | DS Andy Nash of the eastern region special operations unit |
193 | 00:12:05,230 | 00:12:08,590 | leads an undercover team investigating online grooming. | leads an undercover team investigating online grooming. |
194 | 00:12:10,270 | 00:12:12,270 | He asked me how big my dick was. | He asked me how big my dick was. |
195 | 00:12:12,270 | 00:12:16,350 | I've asked him how big his was and he said it's seven inches | I've asked him how big his was and he said it's seven inches |
196 | 00:12:16,350 | 00:12:18,390 | and I said, "Oh, that's going to be too big for me." | and I said, "Oh, that's going to be too big for me." |
197 | 00:12:18,390 | 00:12:21,030 | And he said, "Well, you can still suck it." So... | And he said, "Well, you can still suck it." So... |
198 | 00:12:22,750 | 00:12:24,030 | ..in terms of... | ..in terms of... |
199 | 00:12:25,590 | 00:12:28,470 | ..what he wants to do and his intentions, | ..what he wants to do and his intentions, |
200 | 00:12:28,470 | 00:12:29,910 | that's all nice and clear. | that's all nice and clear. |
201 | 00:12:31,070 | 00:12:33,910 | I think the final thing was going to be the hardship. Yeah. | I think the final thing was going to be the hardship. Yeah. |
202 | 00:12:33,910 | 00:12:36,670 | We haven't got any images of him, have we? | We haven't got any images of him, have we? |
203 | 00:12:36,670 | 00:12:38,270 | Well, not facial. | Well, not facial. |
204 | 00:12:38,270 | 00:12:43,070 | The unit are unable to identify the Grindr user Up For Fun. | The unit are unable to identify the Grindr user Up For Fun. |
205 | 00:12:43,070 | 00:12:45,430 | The thing is, their usernames are not usernames. | The thing is, their usernames are not usernames. |
206 | 00:12:46,590 | 00:12:48,310 | No, they're not. If that makes sense? | No, they're not. If that makes sense? |
207 | 00:12:48,310 | 00:12:49,910 | There's nothing to search for. No. | There's nothing to search for. No. |
208 | 00:12:49,910 | 00:12:52,390 | Yeah. It's a real problem. | Yeah. It's a real problem. |
209 | 00:12:52,390 | 00:12:54,750 | He can change it every day. They can change their image. | He can change it every day. They can change their image. |
210 | 00:12:54,750 | 00:12:57,030 | You can change it every hour. They can change their tag. | You can change it every hour. They can change their tag. |
211 | 00:12:57,030 | 00:12:58,230 | They can change it and they do. | They can change it and they do. |
212 | 00:13:02,310 | 00:13:05,470 | PRODUCER: Is there any urgency in identifying Up For Fun? | PRODUCER: Is there any urgency in identifying Up For Fun? |
213 | 00:13:05,470 | 00:13:08,150 | There is always a degree of urgency to work out who he is, | There is always a degree of urgency to work out who he is, |
214 | 00:13:08,150 | 00:13:10,870 | so we can accurately assess the risk he presents. | so we can accurately assess the risk he presents. |
215 | 00:13:12,590 | 00:13:15,390 | We don't know whether he has children at home, | We don't know whether he has children at home, |
216 | 00:13:15,390 | 00:13:18,070 | if he's a teacher, all of these kind of things that would | if he's a teacher, all of these kind of things that would |
217 | 00:13:18,070 | 00:13:21,630 | contribute to him presenting a greater risk to the public. | contribute to him presenting a greater risk to the public. |
218 | 00:13:21,630 | 00:13:25,390 | Will you ask Grindr for any information they have on Up For Fun? | Will you ask Grindr for any information they have on Up For Fun? |
219 | 00:13:25,390 | 00:13:28,830 | Erm, we can't ask Grindr because of where they're located. | Erm, we can't ask Grindr because of where they're located. |
220 | 00:13:30,150 | 00:13:32,550 | Because they are based outside of the UK, | Because they are based outside of the UK, |
221 | 00:13:32,550 | 00:13:36,350 | our laws can't compel them to provide material. | our laws can't compel them to provide material. |
222 | 00:13:41,150 | 00:13:43,230 | Cheers, mate. | Cheers, mate. |
223 | 00:13:43,230 | 00:13:47,150 | Undercover operatives deploy on any social media platform | Undercover operatives deploy on any social media platform |
224 | 00:13:47,150 | 00:13:50,950 | where there's intelligence of children being sexually exploited, | where there's intelligence of children being sexually exploited, |
225 | 00:13:50,950 | 00:13:53,430 | most of which are based in United States. | most of which are based in United States. |
226 | 00:13:55,470 | 00:13:59,790 | On the whole, do you think you're getting enough cooperation from social media applications? | On the whole, do you think you're getting enough cooperation from social media applications? |
227 | 00:13:59,790 | 00:14:01,630 | Erm, no. | Erm, no. |
228 | 00:14:01,630 | 00:14:04,430 | There are companies that quite clearly are in possession | There are companies that quite clearly are in possession |
229 | 00:14:04,430 | 00:14:07,710 | of the data and will not give it, no matter what, you know, | of the data and will not give it, no matter what, you know, |
230 | 00:14:07,710 | 00:14:09,350 | legal process you try to follow. | legal process you try to follow. |
231 | 00:14:10,830 | 00:14:12,390 | It makes it very frustrating | It makes it very frustrating |
232 | 00:14:12,390 | 00:14:15,230 | because I then can't identify people who are committing crime. | because I then can't identify people who are committing crime. |
233 | 00:14:17,590 | 00:14:20,190 | Once they cross over a criminal threshold, | Once they cross over a criminal threshold, |
234 | 00:14:20,190 | 00:14:22,030 | we should be able to access that data. | we should be able to access that data. |
235 | 00:14:51,270 | 00:14:53,390 | That Up For It dude, | That Up For It dude, |
236 | 00:14:53,390 | 00:14:56,830 | he's talking about if I can jump on a bus he can meet me at Basildon. | he's talking about if I can jump on a bus he can meet me at Basildon. |
237 | 00:14:56,830 | 00:15:00,350 | He can teach me a thing or two when we meet and he can give me | He can teach me a thing or two when we meet and he can give me |
238 | 00:15:00,350 | 00:15:02,270 | the money for the bus to get back. | the money for the bus to get back. |
239 | 00:15:02,270 | 00:15:04,750 | I think it's a 200 bus that goes from Grays to Basildon. | I think it's a 200 bus that goes from Grays to Basildon. |
240 | 00:15:04,750 | 00:15:07,270 | It's like 50 minutes. 50? Yeah. | It's like 50 minutes. 50? Yeah. |
241 | 00:15:07,270 | 00:15:09,910 | That will take you, I imagine, into the main bus... | That will take you, I imagine, into the main bus... |
242 | 00:15:11,190 | 00:15:14,270 | Depot. ..depot, yeah... Yeah. ..where the station is. Yeah. | Depot. ..depot, yeah... Yeah. ..where the station is. Yeah. |
243 | 00:15:14,270 | 00:15:16,470 | It's where the shopping precincts and all that. Yeah. | It's where the shopping precincts and all that. Yeah. |
244 | 00:15:17,990 | 00:15:21,030 | So, yeah, but then it would become how we would manage... | So, yeah, but then it would become how we would manage... |
245 | 00:15:22,470 | 00:15:23,950 | ..the meet. The where and how. | ..the meet. The where and how. |
246 | 00:15:23,950 | 00:15:27,390 | Given that we don't know who he is and don't know what he looks like. That's where we are. | Given that we don't know who he is and don't know what he looks like. That's where we are. |
247 | 00:15:27,390 | 00:15:29,590 | Nice one. It could progress quite quickly. | Nice one. It could progress quite quickly. |
248 | 00:15:37,150 | 00:15:40,630 | I've currently got quite an urgent child sexual exploitation | I've currently got quite an urgent child sexual exploitation |
249 | 00:15:40,630 | 00:15:43,790 | job on at the moment and I need a council tax check done. | job on at the moment and I need a council tax check done. |
250 | 00:15:43,790 | 00:15:45,070 | I don't know... | I don't know... |
251 | 00:15:45,070 | 00:15:48,030 | I haven't done it through Basildon before, I don't know where to go to. | I haven't done it through Basildon before, I don't know where to go to. |
252 | 00:15:48,030 | 00:15:52,630 | The research and development team is tasked with finding the real-life identities | The research and development team is tasked with finding the real-life identities |
253 | 00:15:52,630 | 00:15:55,190 | of paedophiles engaging with operatives. | of paedophiles engaging with operatives. |
254 | 00:15:55,190 | 00:15:56,750 | When I first started this job, | When I first started this job, |
255 | 00:15:56,750 | 00:15:59,790 | I didn't really know that these sort of conversations even took place. | I didn't really know that these sort of conversations even took place. |
256 | 00:16:01,190 | 00:16:04,510 | It's almost like having a direct insight into the mind of a paedophile. | It's almost like having a direct insight into the mind of a paedophile. |
257 | 00:16:09,070 | 00:16:11,790 | PRODUCER: How much work goes into identifying these guys? | PRODUCER: How much work goes into identifying these guys? |
258 | 00:16:11,790 | 00:16:13,110 | It varies. | It varies. |
259 | 00:16:13,110 | 00:16:16,430 | I've had some instances where people have told the undercover officer | I've had some instances where people have told the undercover officer |
260 | 00:16:16,430 | 00:16:19,030 | what their first name is and where they're from and all it takes | what their first name is and where they're from and all it takes |
261 | 00:16:19,030 | 00:16:22,630 | is a check on voters' role and you can do it in five minutes. | is a check on voters' role and you can do it in five minutes. |
262 | 00:16:22,630 | 00:16:26,510 | Other times, it involves travelling round the country to get CCTV, | Other times, it involves travelling round the country to get CCTV, |
263 | 00:16:26,510 | 00:16:29,350 | trying to triangulate mobile phone towers, | trying to triangulate mobile phone towers, |
264 | 00:16:29,350 | 00:16:32,150 | so you've got to be quite creative to actually get an identity. | so you've got to be quite creative to actually get an identity. |
265 | 00:16:35,070 | 00:16:36,830 | I'm just trying to pick out information | I'm just trying to pick out information |
266 | 00:16:36,830 | 00:16:38,230 | which we can use to identify him. | which we can use to identify him. |
267 | 00:16:45,830 | 00:16:50,830 | Right, so now he's said, "I'm on Snapchat with the username of BLEEP. | Right, so now he's said, "I'm on Snapchat with the username of BLEEP. |
268 | 00:16:50,830 | 00:16:53,150 | Let's have a look at this, see what it says. | Let's have a look at this, see what it says. |
269 | 00:16:55,870 | 00:16:57,390 | Right, OK. | Right, OK. |
270 | 00:16:57,390 | 00:17:00,630 | So I stuck BLEEP into Google | So I stuck BLEEP into Google |
271 | 00:17:00,630 | 00:17:03,390 | and the first thing that pops up is a Denis Sweeney. | and the first thing that pops up is a Denis Sweeney. |
272 | 00:17:05,430 | 00:17:08,310 | And it's come up with an Instagram account, which is locked, unfortunately. | And it's come up with an Instagram account, which is locked, unfortunately. |
273 | 00:17:14,990 | 00:17:16,390 | Right. | Right. |
274 | 00:17:18,510 | 00:17:22,270 | I've put Denis Sweeney and he said he's from Basildon, | I've put Denis Sweeney and he said he's from Basildon, |
275 | 00:17:22,270 | 00:17:25,510 | so I put Denis Sweeney and Basildon into Facebook and its come up | so I put Denis Sweeney and Basildon into Facebook and its come up |
276 | 00:17:25,510 | 00:17:28,630 | with this chap, who looks about the right sort of age | with this chap, who looks about the right sort of age |
277 | 00:17:28,630 | 00:17:31,390 | and potentially has got a partner. | and potentially has got a partner. |
278 | 00:17:31,390 | 00:17:34,510 | It says he's a care assistant in care homes, which is | It says he's a care assistant in care homes, which is |
279 | 00:17:34,510 | 00:17:35,910 | obviously worrying. | obviously worrying. |
280 | 00:17:35,910 | 00:17:37,950 | We can't say for certain whether it's him or not | We can't say for certain whether it's him or not |
281 | 00:17:37,950 | 00:17:39,670 | but I would say it's quite a good link, | but I would say it's quite a good link, |
282 | 00:17:39,670 | 00:17:42,150 | the fact that the Instagram account has come up with this. | the fact that the Instagram account has come up with this. |
283 | 00:17:44,270 | 00:17:46,790 | If we've got a name and we're trying to build up a picture | If we've got a name and we're trying to build up a picture |
284 | 00:17:46,790 | 00:17:49,950 | of someone's life, we use PNC, the police national computer system. | of someone's life, we use PNC, the police national computer system. |
285 | 00:17:51,830 | 00:17:54,190 | If you've ever been arrested or convicted of an offence, | If you've ever been arrested or convicted of an offence, |
286 | 00:17:54,190 | 00:17:56,390 | that previous criminal history will pop up. | that previous criminal history will pop up. |
287 | 00:17:57,550 | 00:18:00,870 | So you've got a Denis Sweeney, he's 39 years old. | So you've got a Denis Sweeney, he's 39 years old. |
288 | 00:18:00,870 | 00:18:02,230 | That sounds about right. | That sounds about right. |
289 | 00:18:04,150 | 00:18:05,590 | He does have a PNC record. | He does have a PNC record. |
290 | 00:18:06,950 | 00:18:08,670 | Ah, there you go. | Ah, there you go. |
291 | 00:18:08,670 | 00:18:11,350 | Sexual activity with a male child under 16. | Sexual activity with a male child under 16. |
292 | 00:18:11,350 | 00:18:15,790 | So, that would tie in with exactly what we are investigating here. | So, that would tie in with exactly what we are investigating here. |
293 | 00:18:17,110 | 00:18:19,550 | So last year, in August and July, | So last year, in August and July, |
294 | 00:18:19,550 | 00:18:23,910 | two children both claimed sexual abuse against this guy. | two children both claimed sexual abuse against this guy. |
295 | 00:18:25,070 | 00:18:26,910 | At the moment, these are only allegations, | At the moment, these are only allegations, |
296 | 00:18:26,910 | 00:18:29,270 | so it doesn't mean he's done anything. | so it doesn't mean he's done anything. |
297 | 00:18:29,270 | 00:18:32,590 | Denis Sweeney wasn't prosecuted for the previous allegations due | Denis Sweeney wasn't prosecuted for the previous allegations due |
298 | 00:18:32,590 | 00:18:34,070 | to insufficient evidence. | to insufficient evidence. |
299 | 00:18:35,630 | 00:18:37,990 | Investigating child abuse offences is hard. | Investigating child abuse offences is hard. |
300 | 00:18:37,990 | 00:18:42,230 | You're reliant on a child having the confidence and... | You're reliant on a child having the confidence and... |
301 | 00:18:43,550 | 00:18:46,470 | ..ability to come forward and make allegations against an adult | ..ability to come forward and make allegations against an adult |
302 | 00:18:46,470 | 00:18:49,110 | and that's a particularly challenging thing for a child to do. | and that's a particularly challenging thing for a child to do. |
303 | 00:18:51,190 | 00:18:54,470 | Only 3% of sexual offence allegations, | Only 3% of sexual offence allegations, |
304 | 00:18:54,470 | 00:18:57,750 | including crimes against children, result in a charge. | including crimes against children, result in a charge. |
305 | 00:19:00,750 | 00:19:04,110 | PRODUCER: Do you struggle to get prosecutions with this work you're doing here? | PRODUCER: Do you struggle to get prosecutions with this work you're doing here? |
306 | 00:19:05,350 | 00:19:09,430 | No, because the bonus is that we, | No, because the bonus is that we, |
307 | 00:19:09,430 | 00:19:13,190 | we capture all the evidence as it happens. | we capture all the evidence as it happens. |
308 | 00:19:13,190 | 00:19:15,710 | You know, we've corroborated absolutely everything that's | You know, we've corroborated absolutely everything that's |
309 | 00:19:15,710 | 00:19:19,950 | occurred between our child victim and our offender. | occurred between our child victim and our offender. |
310 | 00:19:21,230 | 00:19:24,230 | The unit need to continue their operation to test | The unit need to continue their operation to test |
311 | 00:19:24,230 | 00:19:28,910 | whether their suspect is prepared to meet Ollie in person. | whether their suspect is prepared to meet Ollie in person. |
312 | 00:19:28,910 | 00:19:30,830 | He wants to have sex with Ollie. | He wants to have sex with Ollie. |
313 | 00:19:30,830 | 00:19:35,150 | He's been quite upfront and direct about what he wants to do. | He's been quite upfront and direct about what he wants to do. |
314 | 00:19:35,150 | 00:19:36,390 | We're going to let this one run. | We're going to let this one run. |
315 | 00:19:45,190 | 00:19:47,310 | As well as posing as children, | As well as posing as children, |
316 | 00:19:47,310 | 00:19:50,310 | undercover officers assume adult roles. | undercover officers assume adult roles. |
317 | 00:20:16,510 | 00:20:20,910 | An operative posing as a man sexually abusing his daughter has | An operative posing as a man sexually abusing his daughter has |
318 | 00:20:20,910 | 00:20:25,150 | made contact with a man in his 30s in a chatroom used by paedophiles. | made contact with a man in his 30s in a chatroom used by paedophiles. |
319 | 00:20:50,030 | 00:20:51,550 | Hello, Dave Shipley speaking. | Hello, Dave Shipley speaking. |
320 | 00:20:58,230 | 00:21:03,190 | I'll arrange for officers to attend that location, arrest him | I'll arrange for officers to attend that location, arrest him |
321 | 00:21:03,190 | 00:21:07,430 | away from the children, so that it causes minimal disruption there. | away from the children, so that it causes minimal disruption there. |
322 | 00:21:08,750 | 00:21:11,230 | Police have visited the suspect's parents, | Police have visited the suspect's parents, |
323 | 00:21:11,230 | 00:21:14,990 | who tell them that he is working at a residential centre for children. | who tell them that he is working at a residential centre for children. |
324 | 00:21:16,150 | 00:21:19,870 | And in terms of the parents, how did you leave it with them? | And in terms of the parents, how did you leave it with them? |
325 | 00:21:19,870 | 00:21:23,070 | Did you get the impression that they are likely to ring up the son? | Did you get the impression that they are likely to ring up the son? |
326 | 00:21:23,070 | 00:21:26,790 | The case is passed to DS David Shipley at Kent Police. | The case is passed to DS David Shipley at Kent Police. |
327 | 00:21:26,790 | 00:21:30,790 | ...I'd be grateful. Right, cheers then. Bye-bye. | ...I'd be grateful. Right, cheers then. Bye-bye. |
328 | 00:21:30,790 | 00:21:32,670 | OK. | OK. |
329 | 00:21:32,670 | 00:21:37,070 | Our suspect makes it quite clear that he is interested | Our suspect makes it quite clear that he is interested |
330 | 00:21:37,070 | 00:21:41,110 | in the sexual activity with the profile's eight-year-old child. | in the sexual activity with the profile's eight-year-old child. |
331 | 00:21:41,110 | 00:21:47,030 | He also makes it clear that he has previously made other arrangements | He also makes it clear that he has previously made other arrangements |
332 | 00:21:47,030 | 00:21:51,430 | with similar children and those arrangements have fallen through. | with similar children and those arrangements have fallen through. |
333 | 00:21:51,430 | 00:21:57,190 | The research into the mobile details just results to a billing address | The research into the mobile details just results to a billing address |
334 | 00:21:57,190 | 00:22:00,230 | for the suspect, which is his parents. | for the suspect, which is his parents. |
335 | 00:22:00,230 | 00:22:05,270 | They have disclosed that he actually works for the residential centre for children. | They have disclosed that he actually works for the residential centre for children. |
336 | 00:22:06,910 | 00:22:10,350 | We're going to scoot on down there and get him arrested. | We're going to scoot on down there and get him arrested. |
337 | 00:22:15,550 | 00:22:19,310 | For me, this is the sort of job where they should be in custody | For me, this is the sort of job where they should be in custody |
338 | 00:22:19,310 | 00:22:21,190 | before I go home | before I go home |
339 | 00:22:21,190 | 00:22:24,670 | because I'd be stressed having my dinner. | because I'd be stressed having my dinner. |
340 | 00:22:26,150 | 00:22:30,070 | This is someone who expresses a sexual interest in girls | This is someone who expresses a sexual interest in girls |
341 | 00:22:30,070 | 00:22:33,350 | of an age where they would be going to the centre. | of an age where they would be going to the centre. |
342 | 00:22:34,630 | 00:22:35,950 | Just down here. | Just down here. |
343 | 00:22:37,190 | 00:22:39,550 | Therefore, he has access to the kids | Therefore, he has access to the kids |
344 | 00:22:39,550 | 00:22:41,350 | when they're away from their parents. | when they're away from their parents. |
345 | 00:22:43,710 | 00:22:46,550 | By the end of today, he should be in custody | By the end of today, he should be in custody |
346 | 00:22:46,550 | 00:22:49,910 | and any kids that he has access to will be protected from him. | and any kids that he has access to will be protected from him. |
347 | 00:22:58,910 | 00:23:01,670 | Hello, are you all right? Morning, you all right. | Hello, are you all right? Morning, you all right. |
348 | 00:23:01,670 | 00:23:04,910 | Basically, there's been some online communication with children. OK. | Basically, there's been some online communication with children. OK. |
349 | 00:23:04,910 | 00:23:07,670 | So we need to speak with him, a safeguarding priority really. | So we need to speak with him, a safeguarding priority really. |
350 | 00:23:07,670 | 00:23:09,350 | No, of course. | No, of course. |
351 | 00:23:09,350 | 00:23:10,590 | That's not him, is it? | That's not him, is it? |
352 | 00:23:10,590 | 00:23:15,750 | On the red bike? Yes. Oh, OK. | On the red bike? Yes. Oh, OK. |
353 | 00:23:15,750 | 00:23:17,270 | We'll go and have a chat. | We'll go and have a chat. |
354 | 00:23:21,310 | 00:23:22,470 | Yeah, that's him. | Yeah, that's him. |
355 | 00:23:28,830 | 00:23:30,070 | Have you got a moment? | Have you got a moment? |
356 | 00:23:33,310 | 00:23:35,590 | Hello, mate, you all right? Kent Police. | Hello, mate, you all right? Kent Police. |
357 | 00:23:35,590 | 00:23:38,030 | Hi. We're from online investigation. | Hi. We're from online investigation. |
358 | 00:23:38,030 | 00:23:41,190 | We need to have a chat with you about, obviously, communication online. | We need to have a chat with you about, obviously, communication online. |
359 | 00:23:42,310 | 00:23:43,870 | Yeah. You do? | Yeah. You do? |
360 | 00:23:45,830 | 00:23:48,190 | Yeah, that's fine. Yes, that would be perfect. OK. | Yeah, that's fine. Yes, that would be perfect. OK. |
361 | 00:23:48,190 | 00:23:49,750 | I mean, obviously, know why we're here. | I mean, obviously, know why we're here. |
362 | 00:23:52,830 | 00:23:53,790 | Right. | Right. |
363 | 00:23:54,830 | 00:23:56,190 | OK. | OK. |
364 | 00:24:15,230 | 00:24:16,950 | If you just take a pew in there. | If you just take a pew in there. |
365 | 00:24:16,950 | 00:24:19,310 | If you have a sexual interest in children, | If you have a sexual interest in children, |
366 | 00:24:19,310 | 00:24:23,710 | then you need to find some way of gaining access to children | then you need to find some way of gaining access to children |
367 | 00:24:23,710 | 00:24:27,750 | and if you can't do it via your own family then there needs to be some | and if you can't do it via your own family then there needs to be some |
368 | 00:24:27,750 | 00:24:32,190 | way and whether it is through some youth organisation or from a school. | way and whether it is through some youth organisation or from a school. |
369 | 00:24:33,830 | 00:24:36,190 | So he's been arrested on suspicion of arranging | So he's been arrested on suspicion of arranging |
370 | 00:24:36,190 | 00:24:38,590 | the commission of a child sex offence. | the commission of a child sex offence. |
371 | 00:24:38,590 | 00:24:40,950 | His arrest was necessary to carry out a prompt | His arrest was necessary to carry out a prompt |
372 | 00:24:40,950 | 00:24:45,430 | and effective investigation and to carry out any searches | and effective investigation and to carry out any searches |
373 | 00:24:45,430 | 00:24:49,470 | in relation to the offence for devices used to commit that chat. | in relation to the offence for devices used to commit that chat. |
374 | 00:24:49,470 | 00:24:52,710 | And also to protect vulnerable children. | And also to protect vulnerable children. |
375 | 00:24:52,710 | 00:24:54,190 | Have you ever been arrested before? | Have you ever been arrested before? |
376 | 00:24:54,190 | 00:24:55,910 | OK. | OK. |
377 | 00:24:55,910 | 00:24:58,350 | In terms of him, there will be an interview, | In terms of him, there will be an interview, |
378 | 00:24:58,350 | 00:25:03,190 | we'll be looking at our forensic analysis of any devices seized. | we'll be looking at our forensic analysis of any devices seized. |
379 | 00:25:03,190 | 00:25:06,190 | It will tell you how many images are there, how they got there. | It will tell you how many images are there, how they got there. |
380 | 00:25:06,190 | 00:25:09,510 | What they won't tell you is what the offender is thinking about | What they won't tell you is what the offender is thinking about |
381 | 00:25:09,510 | 00:25:11,870 | when he's looking at those images. | when he's looking at those images. |
382 | 00:25:11,870 | 00:25:16,190 | It won't tell you necessarily what age of children that person | It won't tell you necessarily what age of children that person |
383 | 00:25:16,190 | 00:25:18,550 | is fantasising about. | is fantasising about. |
384 | 00:25:18,550 | 00:25:20,910 | What they dream of doing in the future. | What they dream of doing in the future. |
385 | 00:25:20,910 | 00:25:23,670 | It won't tell us necessarily about the children that he has | It won't tell us necessarily about the children that he has |
386 | 00:25:23,670 | 00:25:28,110 | access to or that he's touched previously. | access to or that he's touched previously. |
387 | 00:25:28,110 | 00:25:31,230 | They are the sort of things that people will tell us in interview. | They are the sort of things that people will tell us in interview. |
388 | 00:25:34,350 | 00:25:35,510 | When did this all start? | When did this all start? |
389 | 00:25:39,830 | 00:25:41,110 | Yes. | Yes. |
390 | 00:25:42,910 | 00:25:44,030 | Yeah. | Yeah. |
391 | 00:25:58,270 | 00:25:59,230 | What ages? | What ages? |
392 | 00:26:06,190 | 00:26:07,350 | Is that girls or boys? | Is that girls or boys? |
393 | 00:26:11,230 | 00:26:12,270 | OK. | OK. |
394 | 00:26:21,270 | 00:26:22,590 | OK. | OK. |
395 | 00:26:22,590 | 00:26:25,790 | So when this is going on, you're saying it's just as a fantasy, then, | So when this is going on, you're saying it's just as a fantasy, then, |
396 | 00:26:25,790 | 00:26:28,310 | you're trying to egg them on to carry on the conversation? | you're trying to egg them on to carry on the conversation? |
397 | 00:26:30,590 | 00:26:32,070 | Are you getting turned on at all? | Are you getting turned on at all? |
398 | 00:26:50,950 | 00:26:52,710 | I've got no further questions. SUSPECT SOBS | I've got no further questions. SUSPECT SOBS |
399 | 00:26:52,710 | 00:26:54,390 | Is there anything you want to add? | Is there anything you want to add? |
400 | 00:26:54,390 | 00:26:56,270 | No. OK. | No. OK. |
401 | 00:26:56,270 | 00:26:58,190 | I've got to turn off the discs... | I've got to turn off the discs... |
402 | 00:26:58,190 | 00:27:02,790 | Most people who have no sexual interest in children at all | Most people who have no sexual interest in children at all |
403 | 00:27:02,790 | 00:27:07,230 | wouldn't go within a country mile of sexual chat about child abuse. | wouldn't go within a country mile of sexual chat about child abuse. |
404 | 00:27:08,910 | 00:27:12,750 | Something is happening with this guy's thinking processes, where | Something is happening with this guy's thinking processes, where |
405 | 00:27:12,750 | 00:27:17,630 | he's using that as a justification in order to talk about children. | he's using that as a justification in order to talk about children. |
406 | 00:27:17,630 | 00:27:19,990 | Because he can then say to himself, | Because he can then say to himself, |
407 | 00:27:19,990 | 00:27:23,510 | "Well, I'm only doing this to keep the chat going." | "Well, I'm only doing this to keep the chat going." |
408 | 00:27:23,510 | 00:27:26,590 | Which is nowhere near as bad as saying to himself, "Actually, | Which is nowhere near as bad as saying to himself, "Actually, |
409 | 00:27:26,590 | 00:27:29,590 | "I'm talking about child abuse because that's what I want to do." | "I'm talking about child abuse because that's what I want to do." |
410 | 00:27:48,750 | 00:27:50,190 | SUSPECT SOBS | SUSPECT SOBS |
411 | 00:27:55,350 | 00:27:57,750 | He's going to tell us what he's comfortable telling us | He's going to tell us what he's comfortable telling us |
412 | 00:27:57,750 | 00:27:59,470 | at this moment in time. | at this moment in time. |
413 | 00:27:59,470 | 00:28:03,150 | Our job now is to look at forensic download. | Our job now is to look at forensic download. |
414 | 00:28:03,150 | 00:28:07,630 | The types of images that we recover may tell us an entirely different story. | The types of images that we recover may tell us an entirely different story. |
415 | 00:28:07,630 | 00:28:10,990 | OK, you've been bailed pending the officers making some further enquiries. | OK, you've been bailed pending the officers making some further enquiries. |
416 | 00:28:12,230 | 00:28:14,870 | You have to return to this police station on... | You have to return to this police station on... |
417 | 00:28:14,870 | 00:28:19,190 | We cannot afford to be tunnel-visioned in these cases. | We cannot afford to be tunnel-visioned in these cases. |
418 | 00:28:19,190 | 00:28:20,310 | It's like a spider's web. | It's like a spider's web. |
419 | 00:28:20,310 | 00:28:24,710 | You've got to follow all the little strands because this may be | You've got to follow all the little strands because this may be |
420 | 00:28:24,710 | 00:28:28,590 | the one and only opportunity to identify a victim | the one and only opportunity to identify a victim |
421 | 00:28:28,590 | 00:28:30,950 | or to identify an offender. | or to identify an offender. |
422 | 00:28:30,950 | 00:28:32,670 | And if we don't seize that opportunity, | And if we don't seize that opportunity, |
423 | 00:28:32,670 | 00:28:34,270 | then it may never come again. | then it may never come again. |
424 | 00:29:08,640 | 00:29:11,800 | Denis Sweeney has groomed Oli over nine days. | Denis Sweeney has groomed Oli over nine days. |
425 | 00:29:39,280 | 00:29:41,360 | Where are you at with Up for fun? | Where are you at with Up for fun? |
426 | 00:29:41,360 | 00:29:44,960 | We have provisionally, and it's only provisional at the moment, | We have provisionally, and it's only provisional at the moment, |
427 | 00:29:44,960 | 00:29:48,440 | we've arranged for me to travel to him. | we've arranged for me to travel to him. |
428 | 00:29:48,440 | 00:29:50,280 | He lives in Basildon. | He lives in Basildon. |
429 | 00:29:50,280 | 00:29:53,640 | Eh, so I'm going to travel to him next Saturday. | Eh, so I'm going to travel to him next Saturday. |
430 | 00:29:53,640 | 00:29:57,240 | So things are looking promising with him at the moment. | So things are looking promising with him at the moment. |
431 | 00:29:57,240 | 00:29:59,560 | Do you get a sense of this guy? | Do you get a sense of this guy? |
432 | 00:29:59,560 | 00:30:01,840 | Erm, he's quite careful. | Erm, he's quite careful. |
433 | 00:30:01,840 | 00:30:03,720 | He has been quite careful so far. | He has been quite careful so far. |
434 | 00:30:03,720 | 00:30:06,080 | He hasn't chatted for prolonged periods of time. | He hasn't chatted for prolonged periods of time. |
435 | 00:30:06,080 | 00:30:10,120 | Like today, he's just putting a few little sort of caveats in there, | Like today, he's just putting a few little sort of caveats in there, |
436 | 00:30:10,120 | 00:30:13,400 | erm, saying, you know, only do what I want to do. | erm, saying, you know, only do what I want to do. |
437 | 00:30:13,400 | 00:30:16,400 | If I'm comfortable, if that just means having a coffee | If I'm comfortable, if that just means having a coffee |
438 | 00:30:16,400 | 00:30:19,480 | and then going home, that's OK. | and then going home, that's OK. |
439 | 00:30:28,520 | 00:30:31,640 | I've replied to that, saying I don't drink coffee, | I've replied to that, saying I don't drink coffee, |
440 | 00:30:31,640 | 00:30:35,440 | I wasn't planning on going there just for a drink. | I wasn't planning on going there just for a drink. |
441 | 00:30:35,440 | 00:30:38,360 | And he's replied straight away saying, "LOL. | And he's replied straight away saying, "LOL. |
442 | 00:30:38,360 | 00:30:41,280 | "If you do drink it most likely will be cum." | "If you do drink it most likely will be cum." |
443 | 00:30:41,280 | 00:30:47,000 | So, he's very quickly got over and moved on from, | So, he's very quickly got over and moved on from, |
444 | 00:30:47,000 | 00:30:50,400 | erm, you know, no expectations, | erm, you know, no expectations, |
445 | 00:30:50,400 | 00:30:52,760 | we can just come and have a chat and have a coffee | we can just come and have a chat and have a coffee |
446 | 00:30:52,760 | 00:30:55,320 | and don't do anything you don't want to do, | and don't do anything you don't want to do, |
447 | 00:30:55,320 | 00:30:58,200 | and then the next minute he's talking about essentially, erm, | and then the next minute he's talking about essentially, erm, |
448 | 00:30:58,200 | 00:30:59,480 | me drinking his cum. | me drinking his cum. |
449 | 00:31:01,160 | 00:31:05,040 | And the way that he's communicating, he's quite sophisticated. | And the way that he's communicating, he's quite sophisticated. |
450 | 00:31:05,040 | 00:31:07,720 | He appears to be quite a good manipulator. | He appears to be quite a good manipulator. |
451 | 00:31:07,720 | 00:31:10,400 | I don't think if you met him, | I don't think if you met him, |
452 | 00:31:10,400 | 00:31:13,040 | erm, that you would have any idea potentially | erm, that you would have any idea potentially |
453 | 00:31:13,040 | 00:31:15,440 | that he had a sexual interest in kids. | that he had a sexual interest in kids. |
454 | 00:31:15,440 | 00:31:17,400 | And he'd be able to... | And he'd be able to... |
455 | 00:31:17,400 | 00:31:19,400 | ..to hide in plain sight. | ..to hide in plain sight. |
456 | 00:31:19,400 | 00:31:23,480 | Erm, he could be, you know, your next-door neighbour, | Erm, he could be, you know, your next-door neighbour, |
457 | 00:31:23,480 | 00:31:26,440 | a bloke you meet down the pub or someone you work with, | a bloke you meet down the pub or someone you work with, |
458 | 00:31:26,440 | 00:31:29,480 | and you wouldn't have potentially any inkling that, erm, | and you wouldn't have potentially any inkling that, erm, |
459 | 00:31:29,480 | 00:31:32,440 | there was this side to him which he keeps under wraps. | there was this side to him which he keeps under wraps. |
460 | 00:31:33,800 | 00:31:38,200 | I would categorise him as a high harm offender. | I would categorise him as a high harm offender. |
461 | 00:31:38,200 | 00:31:41,320 | Denis Sweeney has arranged to take Oli to his partner's house | Denis Sweeney has arranged to take Oli to his partner's house |
462 | 00:31:41,320 | 00:31:43,960 | to sexually abuse him while she is at work. | to sexually abuse him while she is at work. |
463 | 00:31:47,760 | 00:31:49,440 | Erm, Up for fun... | Erm, Up for fun... |
464 | 00:31:50,720 | 00:31:55,600 | With the meeting planned, the unit prepare to intercept and arrest. | With the meeting planned, the unit prepare to intercept and arrest. |
465 | 00:31:55,600 | 00:31:58,920 | I'm assuming then that we're OK for Saturday? | I'm assuming then that we're OK for Saturday? |
466 | 00:31:58,920 | 00:32:01,880 | I think it should be OK. | I think it should be OK. |
467 | 00:32:01,880 | 00:32:04,200 | Got volunteers next door. | Got volunteers next door. |
468 | 00:32:04,200 | 00:32:06,120 | So we should have enough people. | So we should have enough people. |
469 | 00:32:06,120 | 00:32:08,160 | It's all, erm, positive. | It's all, erm, positive. |
470 | 00:32:08,160 | 00:32:11,840 | He looks bang on, really. I'm pretty confident that he's going to meet. | He looks bang on, really. I'm pretty confident that he's going to meet. |
471 | 00:32:30,960 | 00:32:35,680 | Worldwide, reports of images of child sexual abuse online | Worldwide, reports of images of child sexual abuse online |
472 | 00:32:35,680 | 00:32:38,240 | have doubled in the last year. | have doubled in the last year. |
473 | 00:32:45,440 | 00:32:48,280 | The electronic devices belonging to the suspect | The electronic devices belonging to the suspect |
474 | 00:32:48,280 | 00:32:51,200 | arrested at the children's residential centre | arrested at the children's residential centre |
475 | 00:32:51,200 | 00:32:54,000 | are being searched for incriminating evidence. | are being searched for incriminating evidence. |
476 | 00:33:00,440 | 00:33:02,040 | Nothing on there. | Nothing on there. |
477 | 00:33:03,440 | 00:33:05,160 | He's deleted everything. | He's deleted everything. |
478 | 00:33:07,080 | 00:33:10,320 | When he was arrested | When he was arrested |
479 | 00:33:10,320 | 00:33:12,240 | he basically had the tip-off, didn't he, | he basically had the tip-off, didn't he, |
480 | 00:33:12,240 | 00:33:16,240 | that police were wanting to speak to him? Yeah. So he wiped his phone. | that police were wanting to speak to him? Yeah. So he wiped his phone. |
481 | 00:33:16,240 | 00:33:18,000 | Done it to factory settings. | Done it to factory settings. |
482 | 00:33:18,000 | 00:33:22,480 | And his laptop, it looks like he has, erm, deleted everything. | And his laptop, it looks like he has, erm, deleted everything. |
483 | 00:33:22,480 | 00:33:26,280 | All we've got is the searching, none of the images. | All we've got is the searching, none of the images. |
484 | 00:33:26,280 | 00:33:28,640 | There's no indecent material at all. | There's no indecent material at all. |
485 | 00:33:28,640 | 00:33:32,400 | He's been looking at a Russian company which is a... | He's been looking at a Russian company which is a... |
486 | 00:33:32,400 | 00:33:34,760 | ..a website purely for, | ..a website purely for, |
487 | 00:33:34,760 | 00:33:38,080 | well, what we tend to see as children that have been exploited. | well, what we tend to see as children that have been exploited. |
488 | 00:33:38,080 | 00:33:40,520 | And there's... | And there's... |
489 | 00:33:41,840 | 00:33:44,920 | ..Sexy Little Things, Your Little Girl, | ..Sexy Little Things, Your Little Girl, |
490 | 00:33:44,920 | 00:33:48,520 | Schoolgirls, Twin Sluts... | Schoolgirls, Twin Sluts... |
491 | 00:33:48,520 | 00:33:51,280 | ..Crop-top Girls... | ..Crop-top Girls... |
492 | 00:33:51,280 | 00:33:54,760 | If we'd gone there the day before, | If we'd gone there the day before, |
493 | 00:33:54,760 | 00:33:57,440 | without the warrant or his parents, we would have got all this, | without the warrant or his parents, we would have got all this, |
494 | 00:33:57,440 | 00:33:59,880 | all these images. 1,200 searches on that. | all these images. 1,200 searches on that. |
495 | 00:33:59,880 | 00:34:02,360 | So potentially we would have had 1,200 images. | So potentially we would have had 1,200 images. |
496 | 00:34:02,360 | 00:34:05,800 | So we've recaptured nothing from his phones cos he's wiped them? | So we've recaptured nothing from his phones cos he's wiped them? |
497 | 00:34:05,800 | 00:34:09,000 | Yeah. Nothing from the computer cos he's wiped them, | Yeah. Nothing from the computer cos he's wiped them, |
498 | 00:34:09,000 | 00:34:11,360 | so we're left with this? Yeah, that's it. | so we're left with this? Yeah, that's it. |
499 | 00:34:11,360 | 00:34:14,440 | That was the chat... That was the chat we got when we first went out. | That was the chat... That was the chat we got when we first went out. |
500 | 00:34:14,440 | 00:34:15,600 | That's it. | That's it. |
501 | 00:34:17,560 | 00:34:21,000 | And there's no offence there as such, is there? Not really. | And there's no offence there as such, is there? Not really. |
502 | 00:34:21,000 | 00:34:22,720 | Not that I can see. | Not that I can see. |
503 | 00:34:22,720 | 00:34:26,040 | He seemed to make admissions in interview. Did it not count? | He seemed to make admissions in interview. Did it not count? |
504 | 00:34:27,120 | 00:34:29,400 | The thing is, what does he admit to? | The thing is, what does he admit to? |
505 | 00:34:29,400 | 00:34:32,480 | He admits to chatting with this guy. | He admits to chatting with this guy. |
506 | 00:34:32,480 | 00:34:34,840 | That's not an offence in itself. | That's not an offence in itself. |
507 | 00:34:34,840 | 00:34:38,360 | There has to be some sort of agreement to do something. | There has to be some sort of agreement to do something. |
508 | 00:34:38,360 | 00:34:41,200 | Does this mean he's got away with this? | Does this mean he's got away with this? |
509 | 00:34:41,200 | 00:34:43,480 | Yes, he's not going to go to prison. | Yes, he's not going to go to prison. |
510 | 00:34:43,480 | 00:34:47,040 | But our success often times | But our success often times |
511 | 00:34:47,040 | 00:34:50,840 | isn't necessarily judged on prison sentences. | isn't necessarily judged on prison sentences. |
512 | 00:34:50,840 | 00:34:53,720 | Our success is judged on whether an offender | Our success is judged on whether an offender |
513 | 00:34:53,720 | 00:34:58,440 | stops what they are doing and starts living a life | stops what they are doing and starts living a life |
514 | 00:34:58,440 | 00:35:00,720 | where they are no longer a risk to children. | where they are no longer a risk to children. |
515 | 00:35:14,920 | 00:35:17,720 | I.. I honestly hate myself. And... | I.. I honestly hate myself. And... |
516 | 00:35:20,800 | 00:35:24,600 | ..I hate how selfish | ..I hate how selfish |
517 | 00:35:24,600 | 00:35:27,880 | I've been throughout all of this. | I've been throughout all of this. |
518 | 00:35:27,880 | 00:35:29,720 | Like... | Like... |
519 | 00:35:31,200 | 00:35:36,000 | ..I didn't really ever... | ..I didn't really ever... |
520 | 00:35:36,000 | 00:35:39,720 | ..consider why that child might be in that photo | ..consider why that child might be in that photo |
521 | 00:35:39,720 | 00:35:43,720 | and kind of, the-the-the things that have led them there. | and kind of, the-the-the things that have led them there. |
522 | 00:35:43,720 | 00:35:47,480 | And it wasn't until after I was arrested | And it wasn't until after I was arrested |
523 | 00:35:47,480 | 00:35:49,840 | that I actually... | that I actually... |
524 | 00:35:49,840 | 00:35:54,960 | ..properly started to see and think about the kind of... | ..properly started to see and think about the kind of... |
525 | 00:35:54,960 | 00:35:56,480 | ..bigger picture. | ..bigger picture. |
526 | 00:35:59,280 | 00:36:01,880 | My parents have been really, really supportive. | My parents have been really, really supportive. |
527 | 00:36:01,880 | 00:36:04,720 | And I honestly don't know why. | And I honestly don't know why. |
528 | 00:36:05,960 | 00:36:07,720 | It's got to be horrible for them, and... | It's got to be horrible for them, and... |
529 | 00:36:10,320 | 00:36:16,760 | I lost a job that I actually enjoyed do-do.. doing. | I lost a job that I actually enjoyed do-do.. doing. |
530 | 00:36:16,760 | 00:36:21,160 | And I know it's going to be unbelievable to people, | And I know it's going to be unbelievable to people, |
531 | 00:36:21,160 | 00:36:25,840 | but it's not because of the actual children | but it's not because of the actual children |
532 | 00:36:25,840 | 00:36:28,040 | that I did love that job so much. | that I did love that job so much. |
533 | 00:36:30,880 | 00:36:34,520 | The police have said that once things are sorted | The police have said that once things are sorted |
534 | 00:36:34,520 | 00:36:37,600 | that you can go on and live... | that you can go on and live... |
535 | 00:36:37,600 | 00:36:40,000 | ..a-a normal life. | ..a-a normal life. |
536 | 00:36:40,000 | 00:36:41,600 | But I-I-I... | But I-I-I... |
537 | 00:36:41,600 | 00:36:44,640 | ..I just can't s-s-see it | ..I just can't s-s-see it |
538 | 00:36:44,640 | 00:36:46,040 | at the moment. | at the moment. |
539 | 00:37:10,080 | 00:37:13,840 | Denis Sweeney plans to meet Ollie in three days' time. | Denis Sweeney plans to meet Ollie in three days' time. |
540 | 00:37:35,600 | 00:37:40,000 | So in terms in arrest and location. What are you thinking? | So in terms in arrest and location. What are you thinking? |
541 | 00:37:40,000 | 00:37:45,640 | I'm going to meet him at Basildon coach station. | I'm going to meet him at Basildon coach station. |
542 | 00:37:45,640 | 00:37:49,200 | Yeah, we've got a really good little plan for it. | Yeah, we've got a really good little plan for it. |
543 | 00:37:49,200 | 00:37:53,600 | It's probably about 200m long. Ah, it's a bus station, isn't it? | It's probably about 200m long. Ah, it's a bus station, isn't it? |
544 | 00:37:53,600 | 00:37:56,680 | Now, down around here, you've got a Wimpy, | Now, down around here, you've got a Wimpy, |
545 | 00:37:56,680 | 00:37:58,600 | which is where his bus will get in. | which is where his bus will get in. |
546 | 00:37:59,880 | 00:38:02,320 | Cover that end with people. OK. Cover that end. | Cover that end with people. OK. Cover that end. |
547 | 00:38:02,320 | 00:38:05,720 | We could sit here, he turns up and starts looking around, | We could sit here, he turns up and starts looking around, |
548 | 00:38:05,720 | 00:38:08,560 | and we can let either that one know or that one know, | and we can let either that one know or that one know, |
549 | 00:38:08,560 | 00:38:11,240 | or they close in if they spot him beforehand. Yeah. | or they close in if they spot him beforehand. Yeah. |
550 | 00:38:29,080 | 00:38:30,280 | Where are we heading? | Where are we heading? |
551 | 00:38:31,440 | 00:38:33,800 | We're just going to go drive past the plot itself, | We're just going to go drive past the plot itself, |
552 | 00:38:33,800 | 00:38:36,560 | so the bus station will be coming up just on the left-hand side. | so the bus station will be coming up just on the left-hand side. |
553 | 00:38:36,560 | 00:38:38,920 | The arrest team are now out on foot, | The arrest team are now out on foot, |
554 | 00:38:38,920 | 00:38:41,400 | so they'll be plotted up at either end of the bus station. | so they'll be plotted up at either end of the bus station. |
555 | 00:38:48,280 | 00:38:51,080 | Hello, mate. You all right? Yeah, yeah. Ah, I'm living it, mate. | Hello, mate. You all right? Yeah, yeah. Ah, I'm living it, mate. |
556 | 00:38:51,080 | 00:38:53,440 | Living it. You got the view? Got the what? | Living it. You got the view? Got the what? |
557 | 00:38:53,440 | 00:38:56,800 | Have you got the view in the front of the Wimpy? Yeah, yeah. All good. | Have you got the view in the front of the Wimpy? Yeah, yeah. All good. |
558 | 00:38:56,800 | 00:38:58,600 | All right, mate. Nice one. | All right, mate. Nice one. |
559 | 00:38:58,600 | 00:39:02,520 | The arrest operation is being run by a senior undercover officer. | The arrest operation is being run by a senior undercover officer. |
560 | 00:39:02,520 | 00:39:03,760 | No worries. | No worries. |
561 | 00:39:03,760 | 00:39:07,320 | When it comes to the time that you two are content to call the word, | When it comes to the time that you two are content to call the word, |
562 | 00:39:07,320 | 00:39:09,760 | can you phone it in to me, mate? Yeah. | can you phone it in to me, mate? Yeah. |
563 | 00:39:09,760 | 00:39:12,120 | It's just purely so that I can obviously | It's just purely so that I can obviously |
564 | 00:39:12,120 | 00:39:14,000 | liaise with the arrest team. | liaise with the arrest team. |
565 | 00:39:14,000 | 00:39:16,640 | He'll coordinate the undercover operative on the ground... | He'll coordinate the undercover operative on the ground... |
566 | 00:39:16,640 | 00:39:17,880 | Cheers, mate. Bye-bye. | Cheers, mate. Bye-bye. |
567 | 00:39:17,880 | 00:39:20,160 | ..and the strike team who will make the arrest. | ..and the strike team who will make the arrest. |
568 | 00:39:23,120 | 00:39:25,720 | What do you think today's subject's doing right now? | What do you think today's subject's doing right now? |
569 | 00:39:25,720 | 00:39:28,280 | You know, I think if the subject's been true to us, | You know, I think if the subject's been true to us, |
570 | 00:39:28,280 | 00:39:31,720 | then he would have left work about ten minutes ago. | then he would have left work about ten minutes ago. |
571 | 00:39:31,720 | 00:39:34,520 | I would... | I would... |
572 | 00:39:34,520 | 00:39:37,680 | ..suggest he'd be nervous, cos it will go through their mind, | ..suggest he'd be nervous, cos it will go through their mind, |
573 | 00:39:37,680 | 00:39:40,200 | "Is this a set-up?" | "Is this a set-up?" |
574 | 00:39:40,200 | 00:39:42,560 | We've had one who said in an interview that he | We've had one who said in an interview that he |
575 | 00:39:42,560 | 00:39:44,040 | looked at a photograph of his own two kids | looked at a photograph of his own two kids |
576 | 00:39:44,040 | 00:39:46,560 | on the side of the mantelpiece as he's walking out the front door | on the side of the mantelpiece as he's walking out the front door |
577 | 00:39:46,560 | 00:39:47,920 | and he's thought to himself, | and he's thought to himself, |
578 | 00:39:47,920 | 00:39:50,280 | "This may be the last time that I ever see them." | "This may be the last time that I ever see them." |
579 | 00:39:50,280 | 00:39:54,600 | However, the urge and the desire to fulfil his sexual needs was | However, the urge and the desire to fulfil his sexual needs was |
580 | 00:39:54,600 | 00:39:56,880 | so great that he was willing to... | so great that he was willing to... |
581 | 00:39:56,880 | 00:39:58,040 | Well, he did in the end, | Well, he did in the end, |
582 | 00:39:58,040 | 00:40:00,480 | throw away his relationship with his own children. | throw away his relationship with his own children. |
583 | 00:40:25,120 | 00:40:28,000 | Hello, mate. Hello. Just a little update for you. Yeah? | Hello, mate. Hello. Just a little update for you. Yeah? |
584 | 00:40:28,000 | 00:40:30,760 | He said he's nearly with us and he's going to meet us at the bus. | He said he's nearly with us and he's going to meet us at the bus. |
585 | 00:40:30,760 | 00:40:31,920 | Right, OK. | Right, OK. |
586 | 00:40:31,920 | 00:40:34,280 | He will settle at some point, so we'll just wait for him | He will settle at some point, so we'll just wait for him |
587 | 00:40:34,280 | 00:40:36,480 | to come into the plot and we'll nick him then. | to come into the plot and we'll nick him then. |
588 | 00:40:41,680 | 00:40:43,280 | PHONE RINGS | PHONE RINGS |
589 | 00:40:44,760 | 00:40:45,760 | Hello? | Hello? |
590 | 00:40:47,000 | 00:40:50,280 | All right, we got him, mate. He's on a bike. Brilliant, yeah. | All right, we got him, mate. He's on a bike. Brilliant, yeah. |
591 | 00:40:50,280 | 00:40:54,280 | He's on a bike with a grey fleece, like a light beige fleece. Yeah. | He's on a bike with a grey fleece, like a light beige fleece. Yeah. |
592 | 00:40:54,280 | 00:40:57,400 | And a rucksack on his back. OK, mate. I'll let him know. Bye. | And a rucksack on his back. OK, mate. I'll let him know. Bye. |
593 | 00:40:57,400 | 00:41:00,160 | All right, he's on the bike. He's well obvious. All right, mate. | All right, he's on the bike. He's well obvious. All right, mate. |
594 | 00:41:00,160 | 00:41:02,440 | Cheers. | Cheers. |
595 | 00:41:02,440 | 00:41:03,880 | Hello, mate. He's here. | Hello, mate. He's here. |
596 | 00:41:03,880 | 00:41:05,920 | He's on a push bike wearing a beige jacket | He's on a push bike wearing a beige jacket |
597 | 00:41:05,920 | 00:41:07,640 | and he's just gone into the bus depot. | and he's just gone into the bus depot. |
598 | 00:41:25,480 | 00:41:26,840 | Why? | Why? |
599 | 00:41:43,040 | 00:41:46,880 | Hello? Yeah, got him. Oh, lovely. Job well done, mate. | Hello? Yeah, got him. Oh, lovely. Job well done, mate. |
600 | 00:41:51,360 | 00:41:54,600 | Police have the evidence to charge and remand Denis Sweeney. | Police have the evidence to charge and remand Denis Sweeney. |
601 | 00:41:57,040 | 00:41:59,400 | Hello, mate. One in custody. | Hello, mate. One in custody. |
602 | 00:41:59,400 | 00:42:01,840 | I'm going to take my team back and we'll start putting together | I'm going to take my team back and we'll start putting together |
603 | 00:42:01,840 | 00:42:05,240 | an evidential package for you, which will get sent across. OK, mate. | an evidential package for you, which will get sent across. OK, mate. |
604 | 00:42:05,240 | 00:42:08,080 | Thank you very much. All right, see you later. Bye. | Thank you very much. All right, see you later. Bye. |
605 | 00:42:11,600 | 00:42:13,960 | Perfect. | Perfect. |
606 | 00:42:13,960 | 00:42:16,920 | What might he be looking at as a sentence? | What might he be looking at as a sentence? |
607 | 00:42:16,920 | 00:42:20,680 | In 2017, I would have told you five years plus. | In 2017, I would have told you five years plus. |
608 | 00:42:20,680 | 00:42:22,960 | Now, I simply don't know. | Now, I simply don't know. |
609 | 00:42:22,960 | 00:42:25,640 | After the issues we had last year, | After the issues we had last year, |
610 | 00:42:25,640 | 00:42:27,560 | with judges handing out what I would say are | with judges handing out what I would say are |
611 | 00:42:27,560 | 00:42:29,480 | ridiculously low sentences... | ridiculously low sentences... |
612 | 00:42:29,480 | 00:42:31,840 | So in one case we got a single year for someone | So in one case we got a single year for someone |
613 | 00:42:31,840 | 00:42:35,480 | who travelled hundreds of miles to abuse a young child. | who travelled hundreds of miles to abuse a young child. |
614 | 00:42:35,480 | 00:42:37,120 | That doesn't make any sense to me. | That doesn't make any sense to me. |
615 | 00:42:40,720 | 00:42:43,200 | You can't tell me that someone seeking to abuse a child | You can't tell me that someone seeking to abuse a child |
616 | 00:42:43,200 | 00:42:47,120 | doesn't present a risk to children or society, | doesn't present a risk to children or society, |
617 | 00:42:47,120 | 00:42:50,000 | and therefore, it should be dealt with in such a lenient way. | and therefore, it should be dealt with in such a lenient way. |
618 | 00:43:08,160 | 00:43:10,520 | "Paedo snared on dating app. | "Paedo snared on dating app. |
619 | 00:43:12,200 | 00:43:16,600 | "Sweeney appeared at Basildon Crown Court on Friday for sentencing. | "Sweeney appeared at Basildon Crown Court on Friday for sentencing. |
620 | 00:43:16,600 | 00:43:18,400 | "He dressed in a grey suit and blue tie, | "He dressed in a grey suit and blue tie, |
621 | 00:43:18,400 | 00:43:21,080 | "speaking only to confirm his name and date of birth. | "speaking only to confirm his name and date of birth. |
622 | 00:43:21,080 | 00:43:24,960 | "Mitigation for Sweeney said he was remorseful for his actions | "Mitigation for Sweeney said he was remorseful for his actions |
623 | 00:43:24,960 | 00:43:27,360 | "and that it was an isolated incident. | "and that it was an isolated incident. |
624 | 00:43:27,360 | 00:43:30,480 | "Due to his six months of time already served, | "Due to his six months of time already served, |
625 | 00:43:30,480 | 00:43:33,760 | "and so that he can complete a rehabilitation course, | "and so that he can complete a rehabilitation course, |
626 | 00:43:33,760 | 00:43:36,400 | "the judge chose to get Sweeney a community order." | "the judge chose to get Sweeney a community order." |
627 | 00:43:37,600 | 00:43:39,240 | What do you think of the sentence? | What do you think of the sentence? |
628 | 00:43:40,480 | 00:43:42,840 | Um, very disappointing. | Um, very disappointing. |
629 | 00:43:42,840 | 00:43:47,960 | I can't think of hardly any crime worse than that which he was | I can't think of hardly any crime worse than that which he was |
630 | 00:43:47,960 | 00:43:50,320 | intending to commit. | intending to commit. |
631 | 00:43:50,320 | 00:43:55,120 | And to be given a noncustodial outcome, I think is... | And to be given a noncustodial outcome, I think is... |
632 | 00:43:56,400 | 00:43:57,520 | ..madness. | ..madness. |
633 | 00:43:58,960 | 00:44:01,640 | So what have you been up to since Denis Sweeney's arrest? | So what have you been up to since Denis Sweeney's arrest? |
634 | 00:44:02,800 | 00:44:07,120 | I've been deploying on the same platform, | I've been deploying on the same platform, |
635 | 00:44:07,120 | 00:44:08,560 | Grindr. | Grindr. |
636 | 00:44:08,560 | 00:44:11,040 | How many people with a sexual interest in children do think | How many people with a sexual interest in children do think |
637 | 00:44:11,040 | 00:44:14,640 | you've spoken to? Oh, hundreds I would suggest. | you've spoken to? Oh, hundreds I would suggest. |
638 | 00:44:14,640 | 00:44:17,920 | There's a lot of them, and that's just on one site. | There's a lot of them, and that's just on one site. |
639 | 00:44:17,920 | 00:44:20,280 | If you multiply that by all the different platforms | If you multiply that by all the different platforms |
640 | 00:44:20,280 | 00:44:22,760 | that are out there and all the different regions in the UK, | that are out there and all the different regions in the UK, |
641 | 00:44:22,760 | 00:44:25,360 | then it's pretty mind-boggling. | then it's pretty mind-boggling. |
642 | 00:44:25,360 | 00:44:28,280 | This isn't something that's going to go away, | This isn't something that's going to go away, |
643 | 00:44:28,280 | 00:44:31,000 | you can't arrest your way out of this problem | you can't arrest your way out of this problem |
644 | 00:44:31,000 | 00:44:34,600 | because for every person that you identify... | because for every person that you identify... |
645 | 00:44:34,600 | 00:44:37,600 | ..who's got a sexual interest and wants to exploit children, | ..who's got a sexual interest and wants to exploit children, |
646 | 00:44:37,600 | 00:44:42,280 | there will be a number to fill their space. | there will be a number to fill their space. |
647 | 00:44:44,000 | 00:44:46,920 | So if the police can't stop this on their own, | So if the police can't stop this on their own, |
648 | 00:44:46,920 | 00:44:48,680 | what are we going to do about it? | what are we going to do about it? |
649 | 00:44:48,680 | 00:44:51,040 | Well, I think the social media sites have to take | Well, I think the social media sites have to take |
650 | 00:44:51,040 | 00:44:54,680 | responsibility for what's going on on their platforms. | responsibility for what's going on on their platforms. |
651 | 00:44:54,680 | 00:44:57,600 | They need to do a lot more around age verification. | They need to do a lot more around age verification. |
652 | 00:44:57,600 | 00:44:59,000 | It's not robust enough. | It's not robust enough. |
653 | 00:44:59,000 | 00:45:01,760 | And they need to spend more money on their moderators. | And they need to spend more money on their moderators. |
654 | 00:45:04,400 | 00:45:07,480 | But as a society, we've got to come to terms with the fact | But as a society, we've got to come to terms with the fact |
655 | 00:45:07,480 | 00:45:10,160 | there are some appalling things going on online. | there are some appalling things going on online. |
656 | 00:45:11,640 | 00:45:14,560 | We've got to start talking about this in the open. | We've got to start talking about this in the open. |
657 | 00:45:14,560 | 00:45:16,480 | how much more are we going to tolerate? | how much more are we going to tolerate? |
657 | 00:45:14,560 | 00:45:16,480 | how much more are we going to tolerate? | how much more are we going to tolerate? |