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1 | 00:00:06,780 | 00:00:09,830 | More and more of us realise there is no God, | More and more of us realise there is no God, |
2 | 00:00:10,090 | 00:00:13,470 | and yet religion still has a hold over us. | and yet religion still has a hold over us. |
3 | 00:00:14,501 | 00:00:18,060 | I think ideas of saints and sinners, heaven and hell | I think ideas of saints and sinners, heaven and hell |
4 | 00:00:18,068 | 00:00:20,110 | still shape our thinking. | still shape our thinking. |
5 | 00:00:20,905 | 00:00:23,750 | I want to give you a scientific alternative. | I want to give you a scientific alternative. |
6 | 00:00:24,943 | 00:00:28,910 | This series is not about whether God exists or not. | This series is not about whether God exists or not. |
7 | 00:00:29,170 | 00:00:31,537 | It explores more challenging questions. | It explores more challenging questions. |
8 | 00:00:31,657 | 00:00:33,015 | I'm going to be asking | I'm going to be asking |
9 | 00:00:33,038 | 00:00:34,767 | what happens as we move on | what happens as we move on |
10 | 00:00:34,821 | 00:00:37,025 | and leave religion behind. | and leave religion behind. |
11 | 00:00:37,145 | 00:00:39,422 | What will guide and inspire us | What will guide and inspire us |
12 | 00:00:39,542 | 00:00:42,470 | in a world free of all gods? | in a world free of all gods? |
13 | 00:00:44,860 | 00:00:48,470 | How can an atheist find meaning in life? | How can an atheist find meaning in life? |
14 | 00:00:49,220 | 00:00:50,535 | How can we face death | How can we face death |
15 | 00:00:51,041 | 00:00:53,190 | without the comfort of the afterlife? | without the comfort of the afterlife? |
16 | 00:00:53,744 | 00:00:57,790 | And how should we think about right and wrong? | And how should we think about right and wrong? |
17 | 00:00:58,592 | 00:01:01,004 | I have to believe there is a plan | I have to believe there is a plan |
18 | 00:01:01,124 | 00:01:03,871 | and that God is going to accomplish something through this. | and that God is going to accomplish something through this. |
19 | 00:01:04,261 | 00:01:06,824 | I suppose Jesus is an unpaid baby-sitter. | I suppose Jesus is an unpaid baby-sitter. |
20 | 00:01:06,944 | 00:01:09,070 | It's like, if I'm not watching you, Jesus is. | It's like, if I'm not watching you, Jesus is. |
21 | 00:01:09,774 | 00:01:13,271 | So, do you think that we in the West are too materialistic? | So, do you think that we in the West are too materialistic? |
22 | 00:01:13,391 | 00:01:14,200 | I think so. | I think so. |
23 | 00:01:15,495 | 00:01:18,150 | This film is about sin. | This film is about sin. |
24 | 00:01:18,619 | 00:01:21,148 | Even today, most of us still carry around | Even today, most of us still carry around |
25 | 00:01:21,491 | 00:01:24,670 | the religious notion of sin to tell right from wrong. | the religious notion of sin to tell right from wrong. |
26 | 00:01:25,729 | 00:01:27,024 | People ask me, | People ask me, |
27 | 00:01:27,253 | 00:01:30,552 | "If you give up religion, doesn't that mean anything goes? | "If you give up religion, doesn't that mean anything goes? |
28 | 00:01:30,672 | 00:01:34,230 | Why not indulge in temptations, in lust and greed? | Why not indulge in temptations, in lust and greed? |
29 | 00:01:35,396 | 00:01:37,838 | Why not rape, why not steal?" | Why not rape, why not steal?" |
30 | 00:01:39,087 | 00:01:42,221 | I'm going to explore the power the religious idea of sin | I'm going to explore the power the religious idea of sin |
31 | 00:01:42,586 | 00:01:44,341 | has over our lives, | has over our lives, |
32 | 00:01:44,385 | 00:01:46,533 | explain why it's unhelpful, | explain why it's unhelpful, |
33 | 00:01:46,830 | 00:01:49,365 | and show how we can use reason and science | and show how we can use reason and science |
34 | 00:01:49,380 | 00:01:51,910 | to find a better way to be good. | to find a better way to be good. |
35 | 00:02:05,349 | 00:02:06,903 | (REPORTER): Cars were set alight, | (REPORTER): Cars were set alight, |
36 | 00:02:08,396 | 00:02:10,301 | and shops looted... | and shops looted... |
37 | 00:02:14,316 | 00:02:15,392 | If we don't believe, | If we don't believe, |
38 | 00:02:15,512 | 00:02:18,483 | "God is watching over us", we abandon morality! | "God is watching over us", we abandon morality! |
39 | 00:02:18,850 | 00:02:20,733 | That's what people say to me. | That's what people say to me. |
40 | 00:02:20,853 | 00:02:22,377 | Are they right? | Are they right? |
41 | 00:02:32,694 | 00:02:34,119 | This is London in 2011. | This is London in 2011. |
42 | 00:02:34,764 | 00:02:37,028 | For the past two nights there have been riots, | For the past two nights there have been riots, |
43 | 00:02:37,034 | 00:02:39,479 | there have been windows smashed, there has been looting. | there have been windows smashed, there has been looting. |
44 | 00:02:39,599 | 00:02:40,646 | It's hard to know why. | It's hard to know why. |
45 | 00:02:40,766 | 00:02:43,579 | There doesn't seem to be any very well articulated | There doesn't seem to be any very well articulated |
46 | 00:02:43,699 | 00:02:46,083 | ...political motive, no religious motive. | ...political motive, no religious motive. |
47 | 00:02:46,270 | 00:02:49,037 | It seems to be just more or less anarchy for its own sake. | It seems to be just more or less anarchy for its own sake. |
48 | 00:02:49,163 | 00:02:50,391 | Looting for its own sake. | Looting for its own sake. |
49 | 00:02:51,723 | 00:02:55,353 | I suppose it's showing how fragile the bonds of society are. | I suppose it's showing how fragile the bonds of society are. |
50 | 00:02:55,376 | 00:02:57,694 | How easily broken they can be. | How easily broken they can be. |
51 | 00:02:57,814 | 00:03:00,590 | It's really quite frightening, in a way. | It's really quite frightening, in a way. |
52 | 00:03:04,737 | 00:03:07,739 | Before I look at what reason can tell us about this, | Before I look at what reason can tell us about this, |
53 | 00:03:08,174 | 00:03:11,190 | I want to explore the case for religious morality. | I want to explore the case for religious morality. |
54 | 00:03:12,886 | 00:03:15,892 | To understand the challenge facing atheists like me, | To understand the challenge facing atheists like me, |
55 | 00:03:16,012 | 00:03:19,067 | you need to meet someone like Ray Lewis. | you need to meet someone like Ray Lewis. |
56 | 00:03:19,905 | 00:03:22,109 | - Evening, boys. (BOYS) - Evening, sir. | - Evening, boys. (BOYS) - Evening, sir. |
57 | 00:03:22,229 | 00:03:24,074 | - How are you? (BOYS) - Fine, sir. | - How are you? (BOYS) - Fine, sir. |
58 | 00:03:24,194 | 00:03:25,790 | Newham, east London. | Newham, east London. |
59 | 00:03:26,356 | 00:03:29,403 | In a neighbourhood ravaged by drugs and gang violence, | In a neighbourhood ravaged by drugs and gang violence, |
60 | 00:03:29,837 | 00:03:32,474 | youth workers are fighting back with a tough love approach, | youth workers are fighting back with a tough love approach, |
61 | 00:03:33,129 | 00:03:35,174 | inspired by Christian faith. | inspired by Christian faith. |
62 | 00:03:36,379 | 00:03:39,646 | Who's going to lead us in grace today before supper? | Who's going to lead us in grace today before supper? |
63 | 00:03:39,766 | 00:03:40,803 | Well done, Moses. | Well done, Moses. |
64 | 00:03:40,818 | 00:03:42,658 | Come down the front here, son. | Come down the front here, son. |
65 | 00:03:43,710 | 00:03:45,508 | Les bow our heads in prayer. | Les bow our heads in prayer. |
66 | 00:03:46,734 | 00:03:48,915 | God bless this food as we eat today. | God bless this food as we eat today. |
67 | 00:03:49,035 | 00:03:52,388 | Some of the riots that we saw in different parts of England | Some of the riots that we saw in different parts of England |
68 | 00:03:52,426 | 00:03:55,071 | reveal that we are in a great state of crisis. | reveal that we are in a great state of crisis. |
69 | 00:03:55,191 | 00:03:58,787 | I think what was going on was a sense in which... | I think what was going on was a sense in which... |
70 | 00:03:59,069 | 00:04:00,680 | Frankly, why not? | Frankly, why not? |
71 | 00:04:00,800 | 00:04:04,670 | What is it that will restrain me from getting involved in that? | What is it that will restrain me from getting involved in that? |
72 | 00:04:05,125 | 00:04:07,456 | That's what we're working with, against that backdrop. | That's what we're working with, against that backdrop. |
73 | 00:04:07,464 | 00:04:09,369 | We've got to carve out something | We've got to carve out something |
74 | 00:04:09,422 | 00:04:11,540 | where the boys know where they are. | where the boys know where they are. |
75 | 00:04:14,237 | 00:04:17,418 | Is the discipline stricter here than it is at your normal school? | Is the discipline stricter here than it is at your normal school? |
76 | 00:04:17,615 | 00:04:19,510 | (ALL) Yeah. | (ALL) Yeah. |
77 | 00:04:19,700 | 00:04:24,054 | SS- And do you get taught about things like what's right and wrong? - Yeah. | SS- And do you get taught about things like what's right and wrong? - Yeah. |
78 | 00:04:24,083 | 00:04:26,592 | What do you learn about that? | What do you learn about that? |
79 | 00:04:27,277 | 00:04:28,557 | - Leadership? - Yeah? | - Leadership? - Yeah? |
80 | 00:04:28,677 | 00:04:31,192 | We're told leadership traits, which is... | We're told leadership traits, which is... |
81 | 00:04:31,241 | 00:04:34,473 | bearing, courage, decisiveness, enthusiasm, | bearing, courage, decisiveness, enthusiasm, |
82 | 00:04:34,593 | 00:04:39,523 | initiative, integrity, judgment, knowledge, perseverance. | initiative, integrity, judgment, knowledge, perseverance. |
83 | 00:04:39,568 | 00:04:41,176 | Very good. Perseverance?... Very good. | Very good. Perseverance?... Very good. |
84 | 00:04:42,532 | 00:04:45,390 | I think that this country, despite its riches, | I think that this country, despite its riches, |
85 | 00:04:45,650 | 00:04:47,430 | is morally bankrupt. | is morally bankrupt. |
86 | 00:04:47,917 | 00:04:50,911 | I was talking to a young man recently, the other day, and he said, | I was talking to a young man recently, the other day, and he said, |
87 | 00:04:50,957 | 00:04:52,816 | "I've been here 18 months, | "I've been here 18 months, |
88 | 00:04:52,936 | 00:04:55,536 | and I realise I don't have to lie and steal". | and I realise I don't have to lie and steal". |
89 | 00:04:55,909 | 00:04:58,523 | - He realised that he doesn't have to do it. - Yeah. | - He realised that he doesn't have to do it. - Yeah. |
90 | 00:04:58,979 | 00:05:00,473 | He's 14 years of age. | He's 14 years of age. |
91 | 00:05:00,496 | 00:05:02,310 | I said, "What do you mean?" | I said, "What do you mean?" |
92 | 00:05:02,842 | 00:05:05,197 | He said, "Well, every time somebody asked me a question, | He said, "Well, every time somebody asked me a question, |
93 | 00:05:05,317 | 00:05:08,526 | it never dawned on me to tell the truth. | it never dawned on me to tell the truth. |
94 | 00:05:08,892 | 00:05:13,425 | I've grown up in a culture where everybody lies, everybody cheats, | I've grown up in a culture where everybody lies, everybody cheats, |
95 | 00:05:13,432 | 00:05:14,359 | everybody deceives". | everybody deceives". |
96 | 00:05:18,347 | 00:05:22,637 | Ray Lewis makes a powerful case for the clear-cut rules of religion. | Ray Lewis makes a powerful case for the clear-cut rules of religion. |
97 | 00:05:23,648 | 00:05:29,110 | For him, God and an afterlife instil a sense of responsibility in this life. | For him, God and an afterlife instil a sense of responsibility in this life. |
98 | 00:05:30,361 | 00:05:33,870 | I believe that there is a spirit in a man and a woman | I believe that there is a spirit in a man and a woman |
99 | 00:05:34,112 | 00:05:37,163 | that goes on beyond, and therefore at some point | that goes on beyond, and therefore at some point |
100 | 00:05:37,201 | 00:05:38,876 | that has to come into account. | that has to come into account. |
101 | 00:05:38,889 | 00:05:40,603 | Now, that's what I choose to believe. | Now, that's what I choose to believe. |
102 | 00:05:40,619 | 00:05:43,544 | I'm not going to argue for the science of it. | I'm not going to argue for the science of it. |
103 | 00:05:43,583 | 00:05:46,143 | But what I would say is I actually do believe that | But what I would say is I actually do believe that |
104 | 00:05:46,263 | 00:05:50,172 | there will be a point at which we have to give an account | there will be a point at which we have to give an account |
105 | 00:05:50,209 | 00:05:51,946 | for the lives we've been given. | for the lives we've been given. |
106 | 00:05:52,066 | 00:05:56,096 | I think there is no evidence that we do survive death. | I think there is no evidence that we do survive death. |
107 | 00:05:56,134 | 00:05:58,937 | And so, this life is what we've got, and we should... | And so, this life is what we've got, and we should... |
108 | 00:05:59,057 | 00:06:01,688 | That should really redouble our efforts to make this life worthwhile, | That should really redouble our efforts to make this life worthwhile, |
109 | 00:06:01,704 | 00:06:03,136 | - ..not just for ourselves. - Right. | - ..not just for ourselves. - Right. |
110 | 00:06:03,151 | 00:06:05,505 | But for other people. Try to make the world a better place, | But for other people. Try to make the world a better place, |
111 | 00:06:05,526 | 00:06:07,033 | cos it's the only world we've got. | cos it's the only world we've got. |
112 | 00:06:07,153 | 00:06:08,972 | I wonder whether or not you have... | I wonder whether or not you have... |
113 | 00:06:09,327 | 00:06:12,968 | ..rejected the trappings, | ..rejected the trappings, |
114 | 00:06:12,999 | 00:06:15,225 | the bullshit of religion, | the bullshit of religion, |
115 | 00:06:15,345 | 00:06:17,160 | rather than looking behind it. | rather than looking behind it. |
116 | 00:06:17,280 | 00:06:20,830 | Because, you see, for me, to look beyond this life | Because, you see, for me, to look beyond this life |
117 | 00:06:21,227 | 00:06:23,825 | gives this life a greater sense of focus. | gives this life a greater sense of focus. |
118 | 00:06:24,198 | 00:06:26,559 | That, I think, is something that | That, I think, is something that |
119 | 00:06:26,679 | 00:06:29,652 | religion brings and gives and celebrates. | religion brings and gives and celebrates. |
120 | 00:06:30,069 | 00:06:32,187 | And without that, Richard, | And without that, Richard, |
121 | 00:06:32,655 | 00:06:33,647 | we've just got... | we've just got... |
122 | 00:06:33,767 | 00:06:35,586 | intellectual masturbation, haven't we? | intellectual masturbation, haven't we? |
123 | 00:06:35,884 | 00:06:39,375 | We don't all have your intellect and your scientific genius, | We don't all have your intellect and your scientific genius, |
124 | 00:06:39,390 | 00:06:41,269 | so how are we going to get to the point | so how are we going to get to the point |
125 | 00:06:41,284 | 00:06:43,303 | that we can work it all out | that we can work it all out |
126 | 00:06:43,318 | 00:06:44,956 | in this kind of fuddy-duddy world? | in this kind of fuddy-duddy world? |
127 | 00:06:44,968 | 00:06:48,556 | I have no illusions... I mean, it's very, very difficult. | I have no illusions... I mean, it's very, very difficult. |
128 | 00:06:49,290 | 00:06:52,198 | My solution would not be a religious one. | My solution would not be a religious one. |
129 | 00:06:52,318 | 00:06:54,369 | You try to educate people, | You try to educate people, |
130 | 00:06:54,489 | 00:06:57,003 | which you're doing brilliantly, it seems to me. | which you're doing brilliantly, it seems to me. |
131 | 00:06:57,026 | 00:07:00,104 | We could sit down together and talk to each other and say, | We could sit down together and talk to each other and say, |
132 | 00:07:00,522 | 00:07:02,960 | "I would not wish to live in the kind of society..." | "I would not wish to live in the kind of society..." |
133 | 00:07:02,983 | 00:07:07,440 | But, Richard, I hear you, but without religion, do you not lose power? | But, Richard, I hear you, but without religion, do you not lose power? |
134 | 00:07:07,560 | 00:07:10,843 | What drives me in this work is some sense of the spirit. | What drives me in this work is some sense of the spirit. |
135 | 00:07:10,963 | 00:07:13,006 | Martin Luther King, he talked about soul force. | Martin Luther King, he talked about soul force. |
136 | 00:07:13,045 | 00:07:14,850 | Gandhi was very much leaning | Gandhi was very much leaning |
137 | 00:07:14,851 | 00:07:18,279 | on his spiritual sense of God, if you like. | on his spiritual sense of God, if you like. |
138 | 00:07:18,399 | 00:07:20,557 | If you don't have that, how is it going to happen? | If you don't have that, how is it going to happen? |
139 | 00:07:20,677 | 00:07:22,884 | There's no power. | There's no power. |
140 | 00:07:26,706 | 00:07:27,927 | This is challenging. | This is challenging. |
141 | 00:07:28,047 | 00:07:31,361 | There's no doubt that Ray Lewis is being very effective. | There's no doubt that Ray Lewis is being very effective. |
142 | 00:07:31,603 | 00:07:34,666 | I can see the value of invoking God's authority, | I can see the value of invoking God's authority, |
143 | 00:07:34,724 | 00:07:37,514 | and great leaders like Martin Luther King and Gandhi, | and great leaders like Martin Luther King and Gandhi, |
144 | 00:07:37,571 | 00:07:39,447 | who had religion, too. | who had religion, too. |
145 | 00:07:39,567 | 00:07:41,470 | But there's a problem. | But there's a problem. |
146 | 00:07:42,900 | 00:07:45,497 | This approach is about persuading children | This approach is about persuading children |
147 | 00:07:45,520 | 00:07:48,309 | that they'll be held to account in an afterlife. | that they'll be held to account in an afterlife. |
148 | 00:07:48,830 | 00:07:50,118 | But there is no evidence for that, | But there is no evidence for that, |
149 | 00:07:50,125 | 00:07:53,685 | and the more you think about it, the more implausible it seems. | and the more you think about it, the more implausible it seems. |
150 | 00:07:55,086 | 00:07:58,439 | And also, do we really want to take our morals | And also, do we really want to take our morals |
151 | 00:07:58,446 | 00:08:04,046 | straight from the rather rigid rulebook of an ancient desert tribe? | straight from the rather rigid rulebook of an ancient desert tribe? |
152 | 00:08:10,303 | 00:08:13,808 | - Yeah, it's your move. - All righty, then... steady! | - Yeah, it's your move. - All righty, then... steady! |
153 | 00:08:17,229 | 00:08:19,011 | You remember King Solomon? | You remember King Solomon? |
154 | 00:08:19,131 | 00:08:20,544 | Yeah! Well, I never met him personally. | Yeah! Well, I never met him personally. |
155 | 00:08:20,552 | 00:08:22,403 | He was one of the most wisest kings | He was one of the most wisest kings |
156 | 00:08:22,411 | 00:08:24,453 | that ever walked the face of the planet Earth, | that ever walked the face of the planet Earth, |
157 | 00:08:24,887 | 00:08:27,740 | but his wisdom did not come overnight. | but his wisdom did not come overnight. |
158 | 00:08:28,646 | 00:08:30,453 | He had to humble his spirit | He had to humble his spirit |
159 | 00:08:30,573 | 00:08:33,820 | and bow down to the true and living God. | and bow down to the true and living God. |
160 | 00:08:35,658 | 00:08:39,980 | People tell me that if there is no God, there is no morality. | People tell me that if there is no God, there is no morality. |
161 | 00:08:40,210 | 00:08:42,453 | It's true that throughout human history, | It's true that throughout human history, |
162 | 00:08:42,460 | 00:08:44,982 | religion has handed down simple rules | religion has handed down simple rules |
163 | 00:08:45,005 | 00:08:46,812 | on what's good and bad. | on what's good and bad. |
164 | 00:08:48,173 | 00:08:51,982 | But it's a belief system rooted in a Bronze Age view of the world, | But it's a belief system rooted in a Bronze Age view of the world, |
165 | 00:08:52,102 | 00:08:55,830 | obsessed with sex and policing the purity of the tribe. | obsessed with sex and policing the purity of the tribe. |
166 | 00:08:57,709 | 00:09:00,391 | Before I set out the rational view of morality, | Before I set out the rational view of morality, |
167 | 00:09:00,511 | 00:09:04,830 | I want to explain the problems with the old religious moral codes. | I want to explain the problems with the old religious moral codes. |
168 | 00:09:07,576 | 00:09:08,345 | Here we go. | Here we go. |
169 | 00:09:09,283 | 00:09:11,477 | Understanding the enemy - three enemies we face: | Understanding the enemy - three enemies we face: |
170 | 00:09:11,500 | 00:09:12,818 | The world, the Devil and the flesh. | The world, the Devil and the flesh. |
171 | 00:09:12,831 | 00:09:14,896 | I'm going to go quickly through the world and the Devil. | I'm going to go quickly through the world and the Devil. |
172 | 00:09:14,939 | 00:09:17,550 | We're going to spend most of our time dealing with the flesh. | We're going to spend most of our time dealing with the flesh. |
173 | 00:09:18,111 | 00:09:19,948 | What we don't want to do is get hung up on, | What we don't want to do is get hung up on, |
174 | 00:09:19,961 | 00:09:21,340 | "Oh, the Devil made me do it". | "Oh, the Devil made me do it". |
175 | 00:09:21,348 | 00:09:24,319 | We just want to see how the Devil interacts and specifically | We just want to see how the Devil interacts and specifically |
176 | 00:09:24,439 | 00:09:26,830 | how Jesus modelled some countermeasures. | how Jesus modelled some countermeasures. |
177 | 00:09:27,662 | 00:09:30,046 | This is Every Man's Battle, | This is Every Man's Battle, |
178 | 00:09:30,069 | 00:09:32,705 | a Christian ministry that runs hundreds of workshops | a Christian ministry that runs hundreds of workshops |
179 | 00:09:32,721 | 00:09:34,190 | across America, every year. | across America, every year. |
180 | 00:09:36,009 | 00:09:38,188 | Here, they adapt ancient scriptures | Here, they adapt ancient scriptures |
181 | 00:09:38,218 | 00:09:40,702 | to try to fight modern male temptations | to try to fight modern male temptations |
182 | 00:09:40,717 | 00:09:42,363 | like internet porn. | like internet porn. |
183 | 00:09:44,154 | 00:09:48,595 | Sin offers us the opportunity to meet a legitimate need in an illegitimate way. | Sin offers us the opportunity to meet a legitimate need in an illegitimate way. |
184 | 00:09:48,715 | 00:09:51,552 | Les talk about the body for a minute and masturbation. | Les talk about the body for a minute and masturbation. |
185 | 00:09:51,872 | 00:09:53,312 | If you continue to do it, | If you continue to do it, |
186 | 00:09:53,327 | 00:09:56,198 | you will be perpetually locked into this struggle | you will be perpetually locked into this struggle |
187 | 00:09:56,236 | 00:09:57,539 | with your sexual integrity. | with your sexual integrity. |
188 | 00:09:57,836 | 00:09:59,878 | Does this makee sense? | Does this makee sense? |
189 | 00:10:00,221 | 00:10:01,437 | Questions. | Questions. |
190 | 00:10:05,866 | 00:10:08,159 | Christianity has always been peculiarly judgmental | Christianity has always been peculiarly judgmental |
191 | 00:10:08,723 | 00:10:11,390 | about what people get up to in the bedroom. | about what people get up to in the bedroom. |
192 | 00:10:12,220 | 00:10:17,223 | But do we really want to brand everyday thoughts as sinful? | But do we really want to brand everyday thoughts as sinful? |
193 | 00:10:19,189 | 00:10:22,190 | "I don't deserve my family" is the shame message they would hear. | "I don't deserve my family" is the shame message they would hear. |
194 | 00:10:22,366 | 00:10:24,400 | These are in a list of | These are in a list of |
195 | 00:10:24,445 | 00:10:26,997 | probably 40 or 50 different shame messages | probably 40 or 50 different shame messages |
196 | 00:10:27,027 | 00:10:28,178 | they can choose from, | they can choose from, |
197 | 00:10:28,298 | 00:10:29,984 | or they can write in their own. | or they can write in their own. |
198 | 00:10:30,167 | 00:10:32,079 | A couple of months ago, we had a guy here who... | A couple of months ago, we had a guy here who... |
199 | 00:10:32,582 | 00:10:34,398 | ..his shame message was: | ..his shame message was: |
200 | 00:10:34,421 | 00:10:35,876 | "I'm a (BLEEP) idiot". | "I'm a (BLEEP) idiot". |
201 | 00:10:36,440 | 00:10:37,964 | That wasn't on your list? | That wasn't on your list? |
202 | 00:10:37,987 | 00:10:39,198 | That was not on our list. | That was not on our list. |
203 | 00:10:39,318 | 00:10:41,647 | Aren't you being very hard, on yourselves? | Aren't you being very hard, on yourselves? |
204 | 00:10:42,195 | 00:10:43,771 | No, I don't think so. | No, I don't think so. |
205 | 00:10:44,170 | 00:10:47,589 | My story is filled with pornography, masturbation, online affairs, | My story is filled with pornography, masturbation, online affairs, |
206 | 00:10:47,628 | 00:10:49,479 | that eventually went offline. So... | that eventually went offline. So... |
207 | 00:10:49,599 | 00:10:52,150 | I came to the point of really just being suicidal. | I came to the point of really just being suicidal. |
208 | 00:10:52,410 | 00:10:54,750 | I hated my behaviour, I hated myself. | I hated my behaviour, I hated myself. |
209 | 00:10:55,245 | 00:10:58,156 | I prayed a bajillion times for God to show up and he wouldn't. | I prayed a bajillion times for God to show up and he wouldn't. |
210 | 00:10:58,163 | 00:10:59,361 | It's like he was silent. | It's like he was silent. |
211 | 00:10:59,481 | 00:11:02,440 | I wasn't about to tell my wife or any of my friends. | I wasn't about to tell my wife or any of my friends. |
212 | 00:11:02,560 | 00:11:05,314 | My wife would divorce me and my friends would disown me, I thought. | My wife would divorce me and my friends would disown me, I thought. |
213 | 00:11:05,434 | 00:11:06,767 | So I came to this place and... | So I came to this place and... |
214 | 00:11:06,887 | 00:11:09,160 | the only way for this to end is for me to kill myself. | the only way for this to end is for me to kill myself. |
215 | 00:11:09,280 | 00:11:10,927 | I had this moment in the shower | I had this moment in the shower |
216 | 00:11:10,942 | 00:11:13,312 | where I fell to the bottom of the shower, | where I fell to the bottom of the shower, |
217 | 00:11:13,335 | 00:11:16,405 | in this puddle of tears and vomit and soapy water | in this puddle of tears and vomit and soapy water |
218 | 00:11:16,523 | 00:11:20,670 | under the weight of the reality of my life, that I can't fix this. | under the weight of the reality of my life, that I can't fix this. |
219 | 00:11:20,821 | 00:11:23,070 | I cried out to God in surrender, | I cried out to God in surrender, |
220 | 00:11:23,488 | 00:11:25,019 | "You have to fix this". | "You have to fix this". |
221 | 00:11:25,057 | 00:11:27,150 | That's when everything changed for me. | That's when everything changed for me. |
222 | 00:11:27,593 | 00:11:29,932 | This is my wife Shelly and my son Truman | This is my wife Shelly and my son Truman |
223 | 00:11:29,954 | 00:11:32,049 | a couple of years ago hiking in Vale. | a couple of years ago hiking in Vale. |
224 | 00:11:32,064 | 00:11:34,868 | When I think about the way that this day went, | When I think about the way that this day went, |
225 | 00:11:35,232 | 00:11:36,847 | or I think about that day right there, | or I think about that day right there, |
226 | 00:11:36,870 | 00:11:39,190 | the last thing I want to do is cheat on that woman. | the last thing I want to do is cheat on that woman. |
227 | 00:11:39,879 | 00:11:43,081 | Right?!... The last thing I want to do is tell this little boy, | Right?!... The last thing I want to do is tell this little boy, |
228 | 00:11:43,201 | 00:11:45,240 | "Hey, your dad was an adulterer | "Hey, your dad was an adulterer |
229 | 00:11:45,261 | 00:11:46,655 | and then he got his life right, | and then he got his life right, |
230 | 00:11:46,662 | 00:11:48,697 | and then he wrecked it again". | and then he wrecked it again". |
231 | 00:11:49,817 | 00:11:51,392 | I don't want to have that conversation. | I don't want to have that conversation. |
232 | 00:11:57,280 | 00:11:59,657 | Jason no doubt has laudable aims, | Jason no doubt has laudable aims, |
233 | 00:12:00,411 | 00:12:02,792 | but does this preaching work? | but does this preaching work? |
234 | 00:12:03,234 | 00:12:07,707 | Do religious believers resist temptation better than anyone else? | Do religious believers resist temptation better than anyone else? |
235 | 00:12:18,213 | 00:12:23,070 | In 2011, the psychologist Darrel Ray scoured the evidence. | In 2011, the psychologist Darrel Ray scoured the evidence. |
236 | 00:12:23,330 | 00:12:25,266 | Through an online survey, | Through an online survey, |
237 | 00:12:25,312 | 00:12:29,430 | he interrogated over 14,000 people who had left their churches, | he interrogated over 14,000 people who had left their churches, |
238 | 00:12:29,690 | 00:12:33,550 | about their sex lives before and after religion. | about their sex lives before and after religion. |
239 | 00:12:36,835 | 00:12:38,260 | We asked four questions: | We asked four questions: |
240 | 00:12:38,380 | 00:12:41,521 | when did you start masturbating, when did you start having oral sex, | when did you start masturbating, when did you start having oral sex, |
241 | 00:12:41,536 | 00:12:44,066 | when did you start petting and when did you start having intercourse? | when did you start petting and when did you start having intercourse? |
242 | 00:12:44,103 | 00:12:47,361 | And we've compared those people who were raised most religious | And we've compared those people who were raised most religious |
243 | 00:12:47,392 | 00:12:49,856 | with those who were raised least religious. | with those who were raised least religious. |
244 | 00:12:49,976 | 00:12:52,592 | We had thousands of people in both of these groups, | We had thousands of people in both of these groups, |
245 | 00:12:52,620 | 00:12:54,815 | and what we found was there's almost no difference. | and what we found was there's almost no difference. |
246 | 00:12:58,693 | 00:13:00,951 | Now, we did see a little bump in pornography. | Now, we did see a little bump in pornography. |
247 | 00:13:01,786 | 00:13:05,357 | The older religious people got, the more they use pornography, | The older religious people got, the more they use pornography, |
248 | 00:13:05,410 | 00:13:07,901 | and they actually exceed non-religious people, | and they actually exceed non-religious people, |
249 | 00:13:08,021 | 00:13:11,094 | by 5 or 10% in the use of pornography. | by 5 or 10% in the use of pornography. |
250 | 00:13:12,054 | 00:13:14,667 | Whether you're religious or not, biology happens. | Whether you're religious or not, biology happens. |
251 | 00:13:15,452 | 00:13:18,301 | You're going to start masturbating, you're going to start having sex, | You're going to start masturbating, you're going to start having sex, |
252 | 00:13:18,421 | 00:13:20,334 | but what's the difference? Guilt! | but what's the difference? Guilt! |
253 | 00:13:20,454 | 00:13:22,763 | The religious people feel a lot of guilt about | The religious people feel a lot of guilt about |
254 | 00:13:22,883 | 00:13:24,470 | the premarital sex they're having, | the premarital sex they're having, |
255 | 00:13:24,653 | 00:13:26,626 | or about the masturbation they've started. | or about the masturbation they've started. |
256 | 00:13:26,649 | 00:13:29,346 | And they don't know what to do with it. | And they don't know what to do with it. |
257 | 00:13:34,581 | 00:13:38,608 | So, there's really no difference in the actual sexual behaviour | So, there's really no difference in the actual sexual behaviour |
258 | 00:13:38,661 | 00:13:41,199 | that religious and non-religious people indulge in. | that religious and non-religious people indulge in. |
259 | 00:13:41,245 | 00:13:43,226 | What is different is the guilt they feel? | What is different is the guilt they feel? |
260 | 00:13:43,247 | 00:13:44,338 | - Exactly. | - Exactly. |
261 | 00:13:44,590 | 00:13:46,750 | And religions preach against pornography, | And religions preach against pornography, |
262 | 00:13:46,789 | 00:13:50,387 | preachagainst masturbation, preach against premarital sex, | preachagainst masturbation, preach against premarital sex, |
263 | 00:13:50,430 | 00:13:51,855 | and it does no good. | and it does no good. |
264 | 00:13:51,901 | 00:13:53,884 | The highest use of pornography in the United States | The highest use of pornography in the United States |
265 | 00:13:53,885 | 00:13:56,036 | is in Utah and Mississippi. | is in Utah and Mississippi. |
266 | 00:13:57,215 | 00:13:59,366 | These are things that churches preach against | These are things that churches preach against |
267 | 00:13:59,486 | 00:14:02,863 | and yet their members are using it even more than secular people do. | and yet their members are using it even more than secular people do. |
268 | 00:14:02,983 | 00:14:05,629 | When I give my talks on sex, I often tend to ask, | When I give my talks on sex, I often tend to ask, |
269 | 00:14:05,637 | 00:14:07,069 | "How many of you masturbate?" | "How many of you masturbate?" |
270 | 00:14:07,122 | 00:14:10,261 | I'll get people raising their hands all over the place, maybe 80 or 90%. | I'll get people raising their hands all over the place, maybe 80 or 90%. |
271 | 00:14:10,276 | 00:14:12,638 | Some people will raise both hands! | Some people will raise both hands! |
272 | 00:14:13,032 | 00:14:16,005 | If I ask that same question in a religious group, | If I ask that same question in a religious group, |
273 | 00:14:16,125 | 00:14:17,927 | nobody will raise their hand! | nobody will raise their hand! |
274 | 00:14:18,047 | 00:14:20,273 | But we know that somewhere in the neighbourhood, | But we know that somewhere in the neighbourhood, |
275 | 00:14:20,288 | 00:14:22,103 | 95% of males masturbate, | 95% of males masturbate, |
276 | 00:14:22,223 | 00:14:24,989 | and 70 to 75% of females masturbate. | and 70 to 75% of females masturbate. |
277 | 00:14:25,202 | 00:14:27,147 | So if nobody is raising their hand, | So if nobody is raising their hand, |
278 | 00:14:27,267 | 00:14:28,823 | that tells us they're lying. | that tells us they're lying. |
279 | 00:14:28,943 | 00:14:30,469 | Religious people lie. | Religious people lie. |
280 | 00:14:30,736 | 00:14:33,696 | My own grandmother lived 83 years, | My own grandmother lived 83 years, |
281 | 00:14:33,816 | 00:14:35,456 | she went to the grave... | she went to the grave... |
282 | 00:14:36,181 | 00:14:38,744 | denying that she was ever divorced, | denying that she was ever divorced, |
283 | 00:14:39,068 | 00:14:41,062 | because her religious beliefs said | because her religious beliefs said |
284 | 00:14:41,182 | 00:14:43,813 | divorced people are condemned and damned. | divorced people are condemned and damned. |
285 | 00:14:43,933 | 00:14:45,175 | So she never admitted it. | So she never admitted it. |
286 | 00:14:45,213 | 00:14:46,493 | We all knew she had, | We all knew she had, |
287 | 00:14:46,613 | 00:14:50,340 | but that's the power of religion to hold an entire lifetime hostage. | but that's the power of religion to hold an entire lifetime hostage. |
288 | 00:14:50,391 | 00:14:51,950 | That's a lot of pain. | That's a lot of pain. |
289 | 00:15:02,370 | 00:15:04,218 | So the extraordinary thing is that | So the extraordinary thing is that |
290 | 00:15:04,233 | 00:15:07,823 | not only does religion fail to stop people sinning, | not only does religion fail to stop people sinning, |
291 | 00:15:07,943 | 00:15:11,230 | it also forces them to live a lie. | it also forces them to live a lie. |
292 | 00:15:11,715 | 00:15:15,950 | The most powerful example of this I found in Paris. | The most powerful example of this I found in Paris. |
293 | 00:15:16,660 | 00:15:19,846 | Here we can see religious tradition for what it is, | Here we can see religious tradition for what it is, |
294 | 00:15:19,966 | 00:15:23,030 | as the lies spiral into hypocrisy. | as the lies spiral into hypocrisy. |
295 | 00:15:27,273 | 00:15:28,632 | A few hundred metres | A few hundred metres |
296 | 00:15:28,752 | 00:15:31,677 | from the smart boutiques of the Champs-Elysees in Paris, | from the smart boutiques of the Champs-Elysees in Paris, |
297 | 00:15:32,096 | 00:15:34,732 | the plastic surgeon Dr Marc Abecassis | the plastic surgeon Dr Marc Abecassis |
298 | 00:15:34,953 | 00:15:37,628 | can cover up the sins of the past. | can cover up the sins of the past. |
299 | 00:15:39,565 | 00:15:42,384 | He specialises in repairing the hymen membrane | He specialises in repairing the hymen membrane |
300 | 00:15:42,504 | 00:15:44,611 | in women's vaginas. | in women's vaginas. |
301 | 00:15:44,731 | 00:15:47,658 | To all appearances, he turns women who have had sex | To all appearances, he turns women who have had sex |
302 | 00:15:47,778 | 00:15:49,430 | back into virgins again. | back into virgins again. |
303 | 00:15:51,790 | 00:15:55,710 | You can ask yourself as a surgeon, is it fair? | You can ask yourself as a surgeon, is it fair? |
304 | 00:15:55,905 | 00:15:59,437 | Am I in the right path to do that? | Am I in the right path to do that? |
305 | 00:15:59,557 | 00:16:02,743 | And these are questions that we ask a lot to the patients. | And these are questions that we ask a lot to the patients. |
306 | 00:16:02,934 | 00:16:05,868 | - Are you going to be sincere doing that, miss? - Indeed. | - Are you going to be sincere doing that, miss? - Indeed. |
307 | 00:16:05,896 | 00:16:06,483 | Yes. | Yes. |
308 | 00:16:06,536 | 00:16:13,340 | Aren't you building a wedding or a relation on a lie? | Aren't you building a wedding or a relation on a lie? |
309 | 00:16:13,766 | 00:16:17,227 | And you know... More and more, I ask these questions, | And you know... More and more, I ask these questions, |
310 | 00:16:17,347 | 00:16:19,757 | more and more I have the same answers. | more and more I have the same answers. |
311 | 00:16:19,877 | 00:16:21,374 | They just ask me, | They just ask me, |
312 | 00:16:21,494 | 00:16:24,030 | "Dr Abecassis, who do you think you are? | "Dr Abecassis, who do you think you are? |
313 | 00:16:24,353 | 00:16:27,745 | Maybe I'm not going to be a virgin in the facts, but... | Maybe I'm not going to be a virgin in the facts, but... |
314 | 00:16:27,996 | 00:16:30,497 | I want to rehabilitate myself. | I want to rehabilitate myself. |
315 | 00:16:30,617 | 00:16:32,949 | I want to restore my integrity. | I want to restore my integrity. |
316 | 00:16:33,247 | 00:16:35,717 | This is a pureness | This is a pureness |
317 | 00:16:35,837 | 00:16:40,870 | to give back to the person I shall love or I shall marry with". | to give back to the person I shall love or I shall marry with". |
318 | 00:16:41,130 | 00:16:44,348 | But this hymen reconstruction, it's just... | But this hymen reconstruction, it's just... |
319 | 00:16:44,767 | 00:16:47,910 | symbolic of something which is not there. | symbolic of something which is not there. |
320 | 00:16:48,104 | 00:16:49,972 | It's a lie!... | It's a lie!... |
321 | 00:16:51,084 | 00:16:52,627 | It's a lie for you! | It's a lie for you! |
322 | 00:16:52,747 | 00:16:53,745 | It's a lie for you. | It's a lie for you. |
323 | 00:16:55,472 | 00:16:59,520 | Dr Abecassis performs around four of these operations every week... | Dr Abecassis performs around four of these operations every week... |
324 | 00:16:59,786 | 00:17:01,904 | and demand is growing. | and demand is growing. |
325 | 00:17:02,484 | 00:17:05,702 | The majority of patients are Algerian Muslims, | The majority of patients are Algerian Muslims, |
326 | 00:17:05,822 | 00:17:09,110 | and for many, sadly, this is not some luxury option | and for many, sadly, this is not some luxury option |
327 | 00:17:09,533 | 00:17:11,575 | but grim necessity. | but grim necessity. |
328 | 00:17:12,844 | 00:17:13,989 | They tell you, | They tell you, |
329 | 00:17:14,109 | 00:17:15,409 | "My brother is going to kill me". | "My brother is going to kill me". |
330 | 00:17:15,529 | 00:17:18,680 | There is this bad situation in which they are going to be | There is this bad situation in which they are going to be |
331 | 00:17:18,734 | 00:17:22,666 | if they don't present an intact membrane. | if they don't present an intact membrane. |
332 | 00:17:22,719 | 00:17:26,468 | That means if they don't bleed?!... Does it so? | That means if they don't bleed?!... Does it so? |
333 | 00:17:26,727 | 00:17:29,016 | They know today more and more | They know today more and more |
334 | 00:17:29,062 | 00:17:31,751 | that they are not obliged to bleed, | that they are not obliged to bleed, |
335 | 00:17:31,789 | 00:17:36,232 | but they know that if there will be a resistance | but they know that if there will be a resistance |
336 | 00:17:36,529 | 00:17:39,828 | during the intercourse, things are going to be all right. | during the intercourse, things are going to be all right. |
337 | 00:17:39,948 | 00:17:41,384 | And he is going to feel... | And he is going to feel... |
338 | 00:17:41,504 | 00:17:43,647 | ..the husband is going to feel that there is something. | ..the husband is going to feel that there is something. |
339 | 00:17:44,058 | 00:17:47,616 | (TRANSLATION) Being of Algerian origin... | (TRANSLATION) Being of Algerian origin... |
340 | 00:17:47,944 | 00:17:51,540 | For her own safety, this patient has asked to remain anonymous. | For her own safety, this patient has asked to remain anonymous. |
341 | 00:17:52,980 | 00:17:55,218 | (TRANSLATION) I don't risk death. | (TRANSLATION) I don't risk death. |
342 | 00:17:55,704 | 00:17:56,732 | I don't think so, | I don't think so, |
343 | 00:17:56,748 | 00:18:00,390 | because after all I have a family which remains quite humane, | because after all I have a family which remains quite humane, |
344 | 00:18:01,212 | 00:18:03,830 | but I do risk being set apart and judged. | but I do risk being set apart and judged. |
345 | 00:18:06,019 | 00:18:10,857 | In North African society, you don't wash your dirty linen in public. | In North African society, you don't wash your dirty linen in public. |
346 | 00:18:12,411 | 00:18:15,153 | Religious faith is supposed to make us pure, | Religious faith is supposed to make us pure, |
347 | 00:18:15,273 | 00:18:17,814 | but this woman is caught between two sins - | but this woman is caught between two sins - |
348 | 00:18:17,934 | 00:18:20,750 | public shame and private deception. | public shame and private deception. |
349 | 00:18:23,256 | 00:18:26,996 | I think in front of God, I shall be alone. | I think in front of God, I shall be alone. |
350 | 00:18:27,116 | 00:18:31,089 | In front of my community, my image may also tarnish my family. | In front of my community, my image may also tarnish my family. |
351 | 00:18:31,209 | 00:18:32,847 | I am not alone. | I am not alone. |
352 | 00:18:32,901 | 00:18:34,520 | You see what I mean? | You see what I mean? |
353 | 00:18:34,640 | 00:18:37,765 | That's to say, it's not just me they'll be judging. | That's to say, it's not just me they'll be judging. |
354 | 00:18:37,796 | 00:18:42,459 | They'll be judging my parents, my grandparents, my uncles, my aunts. | They'll be judging my parents, my grandparents, my uncles, my aunts. |
355 | 00:18:43,563 | 00:18:46,689 | When I looked around at where I was living, | When I looked around at where I was living, |
356 | 00:18:46,809 | 00:18:51,372 | a society full of lies, I don't feel guilty at all. | a society full of lies, I don't feel guilty at all. |
357 | 00:18:57,526 | 00:19:01,190 | It's not just that the old notion of sin isn't relevant any more. | It's not just that the old notion of sin isn't relevant any more. |
358 | 00:19:01,708 | 00:19:04,180 | We've seen that it clashes with reality, | We've seen that it clashes with reality, |
359 | 00:19:04,218 | 00:19:07,220 | it creates guilt and a society full of lies. | it creates guilt and a society full of lies. |
360 | 00:19:12,145 | 00:19:14,550 | Next, I want to leave God behind | Next, I want to leave God behind |
361 | 00:19:14,713 | 00:19:19,452 | and explore what science can tell us about the true origin of morality. | and explore what science can tell us about the true origin of morality. |
362 | 00:19:31,610 | 00:19:36,100 | Some people think that if we get rid of God and all religious values, | Some people think that if we get rid of God and all religious values, |
363 | 00:19:36,220 | 00:19:38,810 | all that's left is anarchy. | all that's left is anarchy. |
364 | 00:19:39,625 | 00:19:43,382 | But I want to show that there is order without religion. | But I want to show that there is order without religion. |
365 | 00:19:44,090 | 00:19:47,130 | Let's look at the roots of morality through Darwinian eyes. | Let's look at the roots of morality through Darwinian eyes. |
366 | 00:19:49,050 | 00:19:51,991 | One thing we must do is rid ourselves of the idea that | One thing we must do is rid ourselves of the idea that |
367 | 00:19:51,999 | 00:19:54,612 | sexual lust is inherently sinful. | sexual lust is inherently sinful. |
368 | 00:19:56,646 | 00:19:58,940 | These impulses are universal, | These impulses are universal, |
369 | 00:19:58,978 | 00:20:01,545 | and all mammals have evolved ways to manage them. | and all mammals have evolved ways to manage them. |
370 | 00:20:05,015 | 00:20:07,380 | What's that funny patch I can see under his arm, there? | What's that funny patch I can see under his arm, there? |
371 | 00:20:07,392 | 00:20:10,428 | This lump you can see here is the brachial glands, | This lump you can see here is the brachial glands, |
372 | 00:20:10,473 | 00:20:12,508 | and it's where he'll scent mark | and it's where he'll scent mark |
373 | 00:20:12,531 | 00:20:15,503 | so the female can smell that he's a good, fit male. | so the female can smell that he's a good, fit male. |
374 | 00:20:16,417 | 00:20:18,826 | At Cotswold Wildlife Park, | At Cotswold Wildlife Park, |
375 | 00:20:18,946 | 00:20:22,436 | the keepers are trying to get a rare and endangered species, | the keepers are trying to get a rare and endangered species, |
376 | 00:20:22,556 | 00:20:25,619 | the greater bamboo lemur, to mate successfully. | the greater bamboo lemur, to mate successfully. |
377 | 00:20:27,127 | 00:20:32,251 | But to dothat, they have to carefully observe the rituals of lemur courtship. | But to dothat, they have to carefully observe the rituals of lemur courtship. |
378 | 00:20:34,460 | 00:20:36,992 | He's being very good now, he's giving her the calls, | He's being very good now, he's giving her the calls, |
379 | 00:20:37,007 | 00:20:39,011 | which are the beginning of his courtship display, | which are the beginning of his courtship display, |
380 | 00:20:39,026 | 00:20:40,352 | and his call that he'll do. | and his call that he'll do. |
381 | 00:20:40,668 | 00:20:43,274 | There's the tail twitching, and all of this, | There's the tail twitching, and all of this, |
382 | 00:20:43,319 | 00:20:45,944 | she becomes more and more interested in his behaviour. | she becomes more and more interested in his behaviour. |
383 | 00:20:47,406 | 00:20:51,553 | Perhaps we think of morality in completely the wrong way. | Perhaps we think of morality in completely the wrong way. |
384 | 00:20:52,122 | 00:20:54,286 | By observing animals, we see it | By observing animals, we see it |
385 | 00:20:54,481 | 00:20:57,227 | not as some set of lofty ideals, | not as some set of lofty ideals, |
386 | 00:20:57,456 | 00:20:59,003 | but as a practical system | but as a practical system |
387 | 00:20:59,010 | 00:21:01,402 | that enables animals to get along with each other, | that enables animals to get along with each other, |
388 | 00:21:01,745 | 00:21:04,144 | reproduce and survive. | reproduce and survive. |
389 | 00:21:05,151 | 00:21:06,812 | Jamie, I was once asked by a lawyer | Jamie, I was once asked by a lawyer |
390 | 00:21:06,827 | 00:21:08,793 | when he discovered that I was a zoologist, | when he discovered that I was a zoologist, |
391 | 00:21:09,293 | 00:21:12,107 | whether animals have a sense of law. | whether animals have a sense of law. |
392 | 00:21:12,595 | 00:21:14,160 | And I said, "Well, not exactly law, | And I said, "Well, not exactly law, |
393 | 00:21:14,176 | 00:21:17,911 | but like many human societies that don't have lawyers and policeman, | but like many human societies that don't have lawyers and policeman, |
394 | 00:21:18,031 | 00:21:22,403 | they have customs and taboos and rules that they follow". | they have customs and taboos and rules that they follow". |
395 | 00:21:22,998 | 00:21:25,321 | Yeah, I would say they certainly do. | Yeah, I would say they certainly do. |
396 | 00:21:25,441 | 00:21:27,838 | You know, there is almost a feeding order, | You know, there is almost a feeding order, |
397 | 00:21:27,845 | 00:21:31,131 | so the dominant animal would get the best of the food or the food first. | so the dominant animal would get the best of the food or the food first. |
398 | 00:21:31,251 | 00:21:34,771 | Even if that doesn't mean that others may not try to get in there first, | Even if that doesn't mean that others may not try to get in there first, |
399 | 00:21:34,802 | 00:21:36,652 | very much like in human society, | very much like in human society, |
400 | 00:21:36,841 | 00:21:39,975 | but if they are seen, they'll certainly fall back into line. | but if they are seen, they'll certainly fall back into line. |
401 | 00:21:40,028 | 00:21:43,249 | It's the biggest male, generally, that will breed. | It's the biggest male, generally, that will breed. |
402 | 00:21:43,717 | 00:21:46,734 | Critical for any animal's genetic success | Critical for any animal's genetic success |
403 | 00:21:46,780 | 00:21:49,098 | are the customs surrounding sex, | are the customs surrounding sex, |
404 | 00:21:49,218 | 00:21:52,842 | and the violence and competition that sex can unleash. | and the violence and competition that sex can unleash. |
405 | 00:21:53,681 | 00:21:56,674 | 364 days of the year, the females are the boss. | 364 days of the year, the females are the boss. |
406 | 00:21:56,690 | 00:21:59,250 | The male's very laid-back, he keeps out of the way. | The male's very laid-back, he keeps out of the way. |
407 | 00:21:59,288 | 00:22:02,724 | Keeps himself to himself and just tries to avoid trouble, generally. | Keeps himself to himself and just tries to avoid trouble, generally. |
408 | 00:22:02,762 | 00:22:04,674 | But on the one day of the year, sometimes more, | But on the one day of the year, sometimes more, |
409 | 00:22:04,690 | 00:22:07,539 | that the females become sexually receptive, | that the females become sexually receptive, |
410 | 00:22:07,659 | 00:22:08,720 | things change. | things change. |
411 | 00:22:08,736 | 00:22:11,501 | Things become very, very lawless for the male, | Things become very, very lawless for the male, |
412 | 00:22:11,509 | 00:22:13,338 | and if there was more than one breeding male, | and if there was more than one breeding male, |
413 | 00:22:13,339 | 00:22:14,565 | it really is a fight to the death. | it really is a fight to the death. |
414 | 00:22:14,685 | 00:22:16,546 | So they fight to the death on that one day? | So they fight to the death on that one day? |
415 | 00:22:16,721 | 00:22:17,689 | They can do. | They can do. |
416 | 00:22:17,704 | 00:22:19,746 | I mean generally, one animal would be severely injured. | I mean generally, one animal would be severely injured. |
417 | 00:22:19,762 | 00:22:21,675 | And they do this things, they do stink fighting, | And they do this things, they do stink fighting, |
418 | 00:22:21,698 | 00:22:25,028 | which is very interesting, where they raise their tails towards each other, | which is very interesting, where they raise their tails towards each other, |
419 | 00:22:25,081 | 00:22:28,014 | waft them towards each other so they can deter the other male. | waft them towards each other so they can deter the other male. |
420 | 00:22:28,134 | 00:22:30,094 | And then they do something called slash fighting, | And then they do something called slash fighting, |
421 | 00:22:30,109 | 00:22:31,694 | where they'll run past each other, | where they'll run past each other, |
422 | 00:22:31,709 | 00:22:33,652 | and it's very hard to even see they've touched each other, | and it's very hard to even see they've touched each other, |
423 | 00:22:33,667 | 00:22:36,410 | but then there will be some terrible slash injuries. | but then there will be some terrible slash injuries. |
424 | 00:22:36,530 | 00:22:37,625 | Genuinely in the while... | Genuinely in the while... |
425 | 00:22:37,633 | 00:22:40,109 | So like medieval lancers on their horses, | So like medieval lancers on their horses, |
426 | 00:22:40,125 | 00:22:41,443 | rushing past each other. | rushing past each other. |
427 | 00:22:41,444 | 00:22:42,835 | Very much like that, yes. | Very much like that, yes. |
428 | 00:22:43,033 | 00:22:46,730 | So from a very coherent society most of the year, | So from a very coherent society most of the year, |
429 | 00:22:46,850 | 00:22:49,381 | it all falls to pieces where sex is concerned. | it all falls to pieces where sex is concerned. |
430 | 00:22:52,881 | 00:22:55,398 | This isn't what we'd call morality, | This isn't what we'd call morality, |
431 | 00:22:55,446 | 00:22:57,914 | but the customs and taboos we see here | but the customs and taboos we see here |
432 | 00:22:57,933 | 00:23:01,221 | help us understand something about sex. | help us understand something about sex. |
433 | 00:23:04,959 | 00:23:09,198 | Sex is, on the face of it, a rather bizarre way of passing on genes, | Sex is, on the face of it, a rather bizarre way of passing on genes, |
434 | 00:23:09,229 | 00:23:12,419 | since it necessitates joining with another individual, | since it necessitates joining with another individual, |
435 | 00:23:12,807 | 00:23:16,807 | each contributing exactly half the genes to each offspring. | each contributing exactly half the genes to each offspring. |
436 | 00:23:18,090 | 00:23:21,670 | Many animals devote enormous energy to displaying their attributes | Many animals devote enormous energy to displaying their attributes |
437 | 00:23:21,693 | 00:23:26,221 | to would-be mates, signalling they are fit and healthy specimens. | to would-be mates, signalling they are fit and healthy specimens. |
438 | 00:23:28,918 | 00:23:31,478 | They advertise through carrying vivid plumage, | They advertise through carrying vivid plumage, |
439 | 00:23:31,508 | 00:23:35,074 | vast antlers and horns, or an outsize tail. | vast antlers and horns, or an outsize tail. |
440 | 00:23:35,351 | 00:23:38,967 | You might think of it as nature's bling. | You might think of it as nature's bling. |
441 | 00:23:46,555 | 00:23:48,279 | Humans also do this, | Humans also do this, |
442 | 00:23:48,399 | 00:23:51,050 | just sometimes in a more roundabout way. | just sometimes in a more roundabout way. |
443 | 00:23:51,408 | 00:23:56,596 | Dances like the tango, for example, are courtship rituals in human form. | Dances like the tango, for example, are courtship rituals in human form. |
444 | 00:23:58,729 | 00:24:02,901 | Darwinian theory is really a sort of branch of economics. | Darwinian theory is really a sort of branch of economics. |
445 | 00:24:03,161 | 00:24:05,853 | You might think that the two sexes are kind of equal, | You might think that the two sexes are kind of equal, |
446 | 00:24:05,862 | 00:24:08,934 | they both have the same amount to gain from mating. | they both have the same amount to gain from mating. |
447 | 00:24:09,054 | 00:24:09,941 | Not so. | Not so. |
448 | 00:24:11,241 | 00:24:13,900 | The goods that a female mammal brings to the deal | The goods that a female mammal brings to the deal |
449 | 00:24:13,915 | 00:24:17,440 | are her womb, time devoted to the baby inside it, | are her womb, time devoted to the baby inside it, |
450 | 00:24:17,560 | 00:24:19,164 | and milk to feed it. | and milk to feed it. |
451 | 00:24:19,377 | 00:24:22,349 | The male generally provides protection and food. | The male generally provides protection and food. |
452 | 00:24:22,469 | 00:24:23,820 | So far, so good. | So far, so good. |
453 | 00:24:23,850 | 00:24:27,189 | But the male and female have very different genetic interests, | But the male and female have very different genetic interests, |
454 | 00:24:27,309 | 00:24:29,938 | which is where it gets interesting. | which is where it gets interesting. |
455 | 00:24:30,843 | 00:24:33,010 | The male has the most to gain, | The male has the most to gain, |
456 | 00:24:33,033 | 00:24:36,334 | by, if he can, persuading lots of females to mate with him | by, if he can, persuading lots of females to mate with him |
457 | 00:24:36,454 | 00:24:39,218 | and leaving each one to fend for herself. | and leaving each one to fend for herself. |
458 | 00:24:39,338 | 00:24:41,071 | The female has the most to gain | The female has the most to gain |
459 | 00:24:41,191 | 00:24:44,829 | from persuading one male to be loyal to her, faithful to her, | from persuading one male to be loyal to her, faithful to her, |
460 | 00:24:44,949 | 00:24:49,667 | and to provide a full economic upbringing for her offspring. | and to provide a full economic upbringing for her offspring. |
461 | 00:24:49,787 | 00:24:53,493 | It's this constant economic tussle between the sexes | It's this constant economic tussle between the sexes |
462 | 00:24:53,613 | 00:24:55,781 | which makes courtship so important. | which makes courtship so important. |
463 | 00:24:58,184 | 00:24:59,541 | There's a lot at stake. | There's a lot at stake. |
464 | 00:25:00,066 | 00:25:03,177 | The male tries to ensure that the female is faithful, | The male tries to ensure that the female is faithful, |
465 | 00:25:03,297 | 00:25:05,581 | so he doesn't bring up another male's child | so he doesn't bring up another male's child |
466 | 00:25:05,841 | 00:25:08,283 | and perpetuate another male's genes. | and perpetuate another male's genes. |
467 | 00:25:09,548 | 00:25:12,613 | The female must be faithful, or at least appear to be, | The female must be faithful, or at least appear to be, |
468 | 00:25:12,644 | 00:25:14,170 | or the male may abandon her | or the male may abandon her |
469 | 00:25:14,290 | 00:25:17,458 | and force her to bring up the offspring on her own. | and force her to bring up the offspring on her own. |
470 | 00:25:17,578 | 00:25:21,693 | So one key characteristic we see being displayed in animal courtship | So one key characteristic we see being displayed in animal courtship |
471 | 00:25:21,989 | 00:25:25,250 | is what we humans would call jealousy. | is what we humans would call jealousy. |
472 | 00:25:26,380 | 00:25:28,415 | Females will tend to be coy | Females will tend to be coy |
473 | 00:25:28,940 | 00:25:31,775 | and will tend to advertise their fidelity, advertise their | and will tend to advertise their fidelity, advertise their |
474 | 00:25:31,895 | 00:25:34,258 | advertise their faithfulness to the male. | advertise their faithfulness to the male. |
475 | 00:25:34,281 | 00:25:37,261 | Males, on the other hand, will tend to go in for mate guarding. | Males, on the other hand, will tend to go in for mate guarding. |
476 | 00:25:37,451 | 00:25:42,663 | Say, putting an arm around a woman at a social gathering. | Say, putting an arm around a woman at a social gathering. |
477 | 00:25:45,211 | 00:25:47,232 | So evolutionary science shows | So evolutionary science shows |
478 | 00:25:47,352 | 00:25:51,381 | you don't need religion to have order and even courtesy in relationships. | you don't need religion to have order and even courtesy in relationships. |
479 | 00:25:51,970 | 00:25:55,221 | It's not just anything goes and sex in the street. | It's not just anything goes and sex in the street. |
480 | 00:25:55,411 | 00:25:58,804 | That's been tried in the past with odd results. | That's been tried in the past with odd results. |
481 | 00:26:03,995 | 00:26:06,830 | Well, I think what's happening in San Francisco | Well, I think what's happening in San Francisco |
482 | 00:26:07,173 | 00:26:10,914 | is the only meaningful thing that's happening in this country | is the only meaningful thing that's happening in this country |
483 | 00:26:11,034 | 00:26:12,701 | and quite possibly the world. | and quite possibly the world. |
484 | 00:26:14,097 | 00:26:17,434 | In the 1960s, the San Francisco Bay area | In the 1960s, the San Francisco Bay area |
485 | 00:26:17,449 | 00:26:19,842 | was at the heart of the hippy experiment | was at the heart of the hippy experiment |
486 | 00:26:19,857 | 00:26:21,948 | in so-called free love. | in so-called free love. |
487 | 00:26:22,001 | 00:26:24,919 | I remember it well, because I was there. | I remember it well, because I was there. |
488 | 00:26:25,407 | 00:26:26,824 | Well, this is Telegraph Avenue, | Well, this is Telegraph Avenue, |
489 | 00:26:27,136 | 00:26:30,221 | which used to be filled with street people | which used to be filled with street people |
490 | 00:26:30,481 | 00:26:33,541 | selling beads and carpets and drugs and things. | selling beads and carpets and drugs and things. |
491 | 00:26:34,283 | 00:26:36,723 | Can't see any sign of that activity today, | Can't see any sign of that activity today, |
492 | 00:26:37,048 | 00:26:38,420 | but possibly it's just because | but possibly it's just because |
493 | 00:26:38,900 | 00:26:40,451 | it's only about nine o'clock in the morning. | it's only about nine o'clock in the morning. |
494 | 00:26:40,924 | 00:26:42,836 | Probably haven't got up yet. | Probably haven't got up yet. |
495 | 00:26:43,659 | 00:26:46,063 | I used to live here in the late 1960s. | I used to live here in the late 1960s. |
496 | 00:26:46,183 | 00:26:49,370 | I was a very junior faculty member at the University Of California. | I was a very junior faculty member at the University Of California. |
497 | 00:26:49,781 | 00:26:53,061 | And it was a time of great political unrest, | And it was a time of great political unrest, |
498 | 00:26:53,068 | 00:26:54,257 | it was the time of the Vietnam War. | it was the time of the Vietnam War. |
499 | 00:26:54,377 | 00:26:55,735 | There was tear gas, | There was tear gas, |
500 | 00:26:56,193 | 00:26:57,679 | there were riot police, | there were riot police, |
501 | 00:26:58,037 | 00:27:00,772 | the National Guard, bayonets. | the National Guard, bayonets. |
502 | 00:27:03,611 | 00:27:06,186 | Part of the rebellion against authority | Part of the rebellion against authority |
503 | 00:27:06,407 | 00:27:09,577 | came in trying to throw off sexual inhibitions. | came in trying to throw off sexual inhibitions. |
504 | 00:27:10,118 | 00:27:12,381 | Coyness and mate guarding were out. | Coyness and mate guarding were out. |
505 | 00:27:14,286 | 00:27:17,664 | The sexual culture was pretty free. Rather shockingly so. | The sexual culture was pretty free. Rather shockingly so. |
506 | 00:27:17,784 | 00:27:20,612 | I remember once walking down this very street, | I remember once walking down this very street, |
507 | 00:27:20,627 | 00:27:24,053 | and there was a young man walking ahead of me, a sort of hippy type, | and there was a young man walking ahead of me, a sort of hippy type, |
508 | 00:27:24,173 | 00:27:27,376 | and every young woman who came towards him, | and every young woman who came towards him, |
509 | 00:27:27,496 | 00:27:30,547 | he would just reach out and feel her breast. | he would just reach out and feel her breast. |
510 | 00:27:30,667 | 00:27:31,703 | And then just walk on. | And then just walk on. |
511 | 00:27:31,726 | 00:27:33,145 | And she took not the slightest notice. | And she took not the slightest notice. |
512 | 00:27:34,851 | 00:27:39,531 | Another time, I saw a young woman in Telegraph Avenue, completely naked. | Another time, I saw a young woman in Telegraph Avenue, completely naked. |
513 | 00:27:39,651 | 00:27:41,695 | That is a very clear memory. | That is a very clear memory. |
514 | 00:27:41,815 | 00:27:43,581 | It definitely happened. | It definitely happened. |
515 | 00:27:47,022 | 00:27:51,129 | But that '60s culture of letting it all hang out didn't last. | But that '60s culture of letting it all hang out didn't last. |
516 | 00:27:52,072 | 00:27:56,613 | I'm intrigued by why all that's left today are tourists, | I'm intrigued by why all that's left today are tourists, |
517 | 00:27:57,001 | 00:28:00,643 | grizzled street sellers, and dirty needles in the park. | grizzled street sellers, and dirty needles in the park. |
518 | 00:28:06,624 | 00:28:08,612 | Perhaps the answer lies, once again, | Perhaps the answer lies, once again, |
519 | 00:28:08,801 | 00:28:12,301 | in understanding our evolution as a species. | in understanding our evolution as a species. |
520 | 00:28:12,841 | 00:28:17,315 | Science suggests that the rules we've evolved around courtship and sex | Science suggests that the rules we've evolved around courtship and sex |
521 | 00:28:17,435 | 00:28:20,861 | are attached to deep-rooted emotions and reactions | are attached to deep-rooted emotions and reactions |
522 | 00:28:21,017 | 00:28:23,560 | that are hard to jettison overnight. | that are hard to jettison overnight. |
523 | 00:28:23,680 | 00:28:24,953 | (SNIFFS THEN GAGS). | (SNIFFS THEN GAGS). |
524 | 00:28:24,961 | 00:28:26,500 | This is the reaction that I have. | This is the reaction that I have. |
525 | 00:28:26,515 | 00:28:28,501 | These are crabs that are used for seasoning. | These are crabs that are used for seasoning. |
526 | 00:28:28,714 | 00:28:33,277 | 'The man assaulting my senses is the psychologist David Pizarro. | 'The man assaulting my senses is the psychologist David Pizarro. |
527 | 00:28:33,902 | 00:28:34,725 | Oh, my God! | Oh, my God! |
528 | 00:28:35,510 | 00:28:36,926 | That makes me want to retch. | That makes me want to retch. |
529 | 00:28:37,847 | 00:28:40,644 | He is studying the science of disgust. | He is studying the science of disgust. |
530 | 00:28:42,241 | 00:28:45,070 | This is from the film Trainspotting. | This is from the film Trainspotting. |
531 | 00:28:45,666 | 00:28:50,428 | Aptly titled the worst toilet in Scotland. | Aptly titled the worst toilet in Scotland. |
532 | 00:28:50,870 | 00:28:51,901 | Yuck! | Yuck! |
533 | 00:28:58,363 | 00:29:00,541 | FLATULENCE, MOANING. | FLATULENCE, MOANING. |
534 | 00:29:01,894 | 00:29:04,741 | That's horrible. FLATULENCE, MOANING. | That's horrible. FLATULENCE, MOANING. |
535 | 00:29:05,722 | 00:29:08,381 | OK, I've shown you a brief portion. | OK, I've shown you a brief portion. |
536 | 00:29:08,404 | 00:29:09,929 | I could see the disgust in your face. | I could see the disgust in your face. |
537 | 00:29:10,049 | 00:29:12,754 | But what if I were, say, to present you with something like this. | But what if I were, say, to present you with something like this. |
538 | 00:29:13,143 | 00:29:15,621 | And I asked you to handle it and maybe, | And I asked you to handle it and maybe, |
539 | 00:29:15,818 | 00:29:18,268 | uh... maybe I won't ask you to put that in your mouth, | uh... maybe I won't ask you to put that in your mouth, |
540 | 00:29:18,481 | 00:29:19,353 | but... | but... |
541 | 00:29:19,392 | 00:29:22,340 | Well, I mean, I can kind of tell that's a joke. | Well, I mean, I can kind of tell that's a joke. |
542 | 00:29:22,460 | 00:29:24,374 | This actually wouldn't worry me all that much. | This actually wouldn't worry me all that much. |
543 | 00:29:24,397 | 00:29:25,479 | I mean, I can see... | I mean, I can see... |
544 | 00:29:25,494 | 00:29:27,549 | - You might trust that I wouldn't put actual faeces. - Yeah. | - You might trust that I wouldn't put actual faeces. - Yeah. |
545 | 00:29:27,557 | 00:29:28,944 | And as it turns out this is soap. | And as it turns out this is soap. |
546 | 00:29:28,989 | 00:29:31,031 | It's soap. So now you've told me, | It's soap. So now you've told me, |
547 | 00:29:31,046 | 00:29:33,233 | I wouldn't mind washing my handswith that. | I wouldn't mind washing my handswith that. |
548 | 00:29:33,941 | 00:29:36,381 | So now I'm going to show you a few other images. | So now I'm going to show you a few other images. |
549 | 00:29:36,726 | 00:29:38,942 | They're different from the first ones I showed you. | They're different from the first ones I showed you. |
550 | 00:29:39,062 | 00:29:40,443 | You'll see immediately why. | You'll see immediately why. |
551 | 00:29:40,484 | 00:29:41,720 | Oh, God. Yes. Yes. | Oh, God. Yes. Yes. |
552 | 00:29:42,417 | 00:29:46,335 | David Pizarro shows me a highly graphic image of three elderly men | David Pizarro shows me a highly graphic image of three elderly men |
553 | 00:29:46,386 | 00:29:48,634 | engaged in homosexual sex. | engaged in homosexual sex. |
554 | 00:29:50,505 | 00:29:51,614 | Ugh! | Ugh! |
555 | 00:29:51,734 | 00:29:52,498 | Oh, God! | Oh, God! |
556 | 00:29:52,748 | 00:29:57,141 | Now I'm looking at a degrading sexual act involving vomit. | Now I'm looking at a degrading sexual act involving vomit. |
557 | 00:29:57,336 | 00:29:59,919 | I'll leave this at two, because these are actually... | I'll leave this at two, because these are actually... |
558 | 00:29:59,934 | 00:30:02,728 | so disgusting that I feel bad having shown them to you. | so disgusting that I feel bad having shown them to you. |
559 | 00:30:02,848 | 00:30:06,634 | Those two images were images of a sexual nature, and as it turns out | Those two images were images of a sexual nature, and as it turns out |
560 | 00:30:06,657 | 00:30:10,021 | the domain of sex is one in which we are easily disgusted. | the domain of sex is one in which we are easily disgusted. |
561 | 00:30:13,004 | 00:30:15,347 | The "Yuck!" reaction is an emotion | The "Yuck!" reaction is an emotion |
562 | 00:30:15,400 | 00:30:18,037 | that almost certainly evolved to help us survive, | that almost certainly evolved to help us survive, |
563 | 00:30:18,157 | 00:30:21,237 | to make us back off from potential disease. | to make us back off from potential disease. |
564 | 00:30:22,227 | 00:30:26,186 | But what's fascinating is how disgust seems to have been harnessed | But what's fascinating is how disgust seems to have been harnessed |
565 | 00:30:26,306 | 00:30:30,291 | to reinforce our sense of judgement and moral disapproval. | to reinforce our sense of judgement and moral disapproval. |
566 | 00:30:31,175 | 00:30:34,313 | I kept finding that responses to questions like, | I kept finding that responses to questions like, |
567 | 00:30:34,344 | 00:30:37,155 | "How disgusted would you be if you were to walk into a public restroom | "How disgusted would you be if you were to walk into a public restroom |
568 | 00:30:37,186 | 00:30:38,572 | and found an unflushed toilet?", | and found an unflushed toilet?", |
569 | 00:30:38,618 | 00:30:41,422 | were consistently correlated with political orientation. | were consistently correlated with political orientation. |
570 | 00:30:41,673 | 00:30:44,957 | The more likely you are to be disgusted in everyday life, | The more likely you are to be disgusted in everyday life, |
571 | 00:30:44,995 | 00:30:47,357 | the more likely you are to hold attitudes, | the more likely you are to hold attitudes, |
572 | 00:30:47,372 | 00:30:49,345 | in the sexual domain especially, | in the sexual domain especially, |
573 | 00:30:49,856 | 00:30:54,257 | that are moral beliefs against, for instance... | that are moral beliefs against, for instance... |
574 | 00:30:54,287 | 00:30:56,522 | the behaviour of two men having sex. | the behaviour of two men having sex. |
575 | 00:30:56,574 | 00:30:58,356 | Yes, let me ask a question about that, | Yes, let me ask a question about that, |
576 | 00:30:58,357 | 00:31:04,158 | because I had a fairly strong disgust reaction to some of the things you showed, | because I had a fairly strong disgust reaction to some of the things you showed, |
577 | 00:31:04,278 | 00:31:07,533 | but the important difference is that I don't try to impose | but the important difference is that I don't try to impose |
578 | 00:31:07,579 | 00:31:11,032 | my own dislikes on what other people are allowed to do. | my own dislikes on what other people are allowed to do. |
579 | 00:31:11,404 | 00:31:14,525 | It's nothing to do with me what people do in private. | It's nothing to do with me what people do in private. |
580 | 00:31:14,532 | 00:31:16,410 | I think that's the crucial distinction. | I think that's the crucial distinction. |
581 | 00:31:16,601 | 00:31:21,145 | But it is a very common thought in moral codes across the world | But it is a very common thought in moral codes across the world |
582 | 00:31:21,518 | 00:31:24,400 | that many things are wrong by dint of their being... | that many things are wrong by dint of their being... |
583 | 00:31:24,442 | 00:31:25,592 | somehow impure. | somehow impure. |
584 | 00:31:26,040 | 00:31:28,769 | I think that the real answer here comes from the fact that | I think that the real answer here comes from the fact that |
585 | 00:31:28,889 | 00:31:31,892 | we can now actually see what is harmful and what is not, | we can now actually see what is harmful and what is not, |
586 | 00:31:31,923 | 00:31:33,401 | and we can decide... | and we can decide... |
587 | 00:31:33,416 | 00:31:35,473 | to put our disgust to rest | to put our disgust to rest |
588 | 00:31:35,488 | 00:31:37,035 | when it comes to making moral judgements. | when it comes to making moral judgements. |
589 | 00:31:37,081 | 00:31:41,149 | And one of the things that I ask my students in my class is... | And one of the things that I ask my students in my class is... |
590 | 00:31:41,484 | 00:31:44,792 | imagine two very, very ugly people having sex. | imagine two very, very ugly people having sex. |
591 | 00:31:45,181 | 00:31:46,712 | Disgusting. | Disgusting. |
592 | 00:31:46,832 | 00:31:49,296 | But would you ever think to make it illegal | But would you ever think to make it illegal |
593 | 00:31:49,326 | 00:31:50,952 | for ugly people to have sex? | for ugly people to have sex? |
594 | 00:31:51,072 | 00:31:52,582 | Well, of course not. | Well, of course not. |
595 | 00:31:52,702 | 00:31:55,136 | Well, maybe it's a case in which we might be able to say, | Well, maybe it's a case in which we might be able to say, |
596 | 00:31:55,167 | 00:31:58,034 | "You know what?... I'm grossed out by what you're doing!" | "You know what?... I'm grossed out by what you're doing!" |
597 | 00:31:58,154 | 00:32:01,821 | But that has nothing to do with whether you should be put in prison for it. | But that has nothing to do with whether you should be put in prison for it. |
598 | 00:32:05,545 | 00:32:07,183 | This is the key point. | This is the key point. |
599 | 00:32:07,214 | 00:32:11,157 | We have instincts that used to protect our primitive ancestors. | We have instincts that used to protect our primitive ancestors. |
600 | 00:32:11,191 | 00:32:15,307 | Because of that, we may still find some things emotionally repellent. | Because of that, we may still find some things emotionally repellent. |
601 | 00:32:15,498 | 00:32:18,881 | But we have evolved also a sense of reason, | But we have evolved also a sense of reason, |
602 | 00:32:18,912 | 00:32:23,045 | which curbs our tendency to project our disgust onto other people. | which curbs our tendency to project our disgust onto other people. |
603 | 00:32:23,777 | 00:32:25,773 | In our post-religion world, | In our post-religion world, |
604 | 00:32:25,788 | 00:32:29,499 | we can look rationally at what we once called "sinful behaviour". | we can look rationally at what we once called "sinful behaviour". |
605 | 00:32:29,710 | 00:32:35,421 | We can weigh up actual harms and benefits, and temper our instincts. | We can weigh up actual harms and benefits, and temper our instincts. |
606 | 00:32:37,694 | 00:32:41,171 | In this way, advanced societies like ours can move on, | In this way, advanced societies like ours can move on, |
607 | 00:32:41,291 | 00:32:45,134 | shifting the line on what is deemed right or wrong. | shifting the line on what is deemed right or wrong. |
608 | 00:32:47,858 | 00:32:51,615 | Probably the dominant change in my lifetime | Probably the dominant change in my lifetime |
609 | 00:32:51,801 | 00:32:53,863 | is the change in attitude towards gays. | is the change in attitude towards gays. |
610 | 00:32:53,884 | 00:32:56,472 | When I first entered Parliament in 1979, | When I first entered Parliament in 1979, |
611 | 00:32:56,918 | 00:32:59,252 | I started campaigning - | I started campaigning - |
612 | 00:32:59,372 | 00:33:00,684 | not for equal rights - | not for equal rights - |
613 | 00:33:00,697 | 00:33:02,899 | we wouldn't have dared use a word like equal rights - | we wouldn't have dared use a word like equal rights - |
614 | 00:33:02,921 | 00:33:08,000 | but I started campaigning for a measure of respect for homosexuals. | but I started campaigning for a measure of respect for homosexuals. |
615 | 00:33:08,442 | 00:33:10,240 | I thought, if I was very lucky, | I thought, if I was very lucky, |
616 | 00:33:10,256 | 00:33:13,404 | we might get the age of consent reduced from 21 | we might get the age of consent reduced from 21 |
617 | 00:33:13,418 | 00:33:15,720 | to 18 by the time I died. | to 18 by the time I died. |
618 | 00:33:15,840 | 00:33:17,068 | I thought, if I was very lucky, | I thought, if I was very lucky, |
619 | 00:33:17,081 | 00:33:20,077 | I could stop the police impersonating... gays | I could stop the police impersonating... gays |
620 | 00:33:20,100 | 00:33:23,071 | in order to pick people up in public lavatories and then prosecute them. | in order to pick people up in public lavatories and then prosecute them. |
621 | 00:33:23,087 | 00:33:25,198 | These things seem to change so slowly... | These things seem to change so slowly... |
622 | 00:33:25,214 | 00:33:27,179 | and then suddenly, like an avalanche, | and then suddenly, like an avalanche, |
623 | 00:33:27,202 | 00:33:28,465 | everything changed! | everything changed! |
624 | 00:33:28,732 | 00:33:30,492 | And long before the end of my life. | And long before the end of my life. |
625 | 00:33:30,545 | 00:33:32,821 | I cannot believe the speed | I cannot believe the speed |
626 | 00:33:32,941 | 00:33:38,162 | with what seemed to be a really fixed public loathing... of homosexuality | with what seemed to be a really fixed public loathing... of homosexuality |
627 | 00:33:38,192 | 00:33:40,493 | - ..has changed to a shrug of the shoulders. - Yes. | - ..has changed to a shrug of the shoulders. - Yes. |
628 | 00:33:41,552 | 00:33:45,231 | Matthew Parris believes it is our capacity for reason | Matthew Parris believes it is our capacity for reason |
629 | 00:33:45,293 | 00:33:48,699 | that lies behind this growing tolerance. | that lies behind this growing tolerance. |
630 | 00:33:48,819 | 00:33:50,671 | In our culture, the advance of science, | In our culture, the advance of science, |
631 | 00:33:50,709 | 00:33:54,755 | the advance of scientific, medical, psychological knowledge, | the advance of scientific, medical, psychological knowledge, |
632 | 00:33:54,999 | 00:33:59,807 | the understanding that things are not rooted in sin | the understanding that things are not rooted in sin |
633 | 00:33:59,927 | 00:34:01,628 | that comes from demons and the devil, | that comes from demons and the devil, |
634 | 00:34:01,748 | 00:34:06,016 | but rooted in very deep internal aspects of our own... | but rooted in very deep internal aspects of our own... |
635 | 00:34:06,136 | 00:34:07,715 | mechanisms of our mind. | mechanisms of our mind. |
636 | 00:34:07,731 | 00:34:12,687 | So blame is much less important in these things, | So blame is much less important in these things, |
637 | 00:34:12,721 | 00:34:16,417 | and, of course, illnesses used to be attributed sometimes to sin too. | and, of course, illnesses used to be attributed sometimes to sin too. |
638 | 00:34:16,432 | 00:34:18,779 | Well, it isn't a matter of sin, it isn't a matter of blame. | Well, it isn't a matter of sin, it isn't a matter of blame. |
639 | 00:34:18,810 | 00:34:23,046 | And I think those attitudes have probably been changing over 200 years, | And I think those attitudes have probably been changing over 200 years, |
640 | 00:34:23,069 | 00:34:25,997 | and the change has accelerated in the last century. | and the change has accelerated in the last century. |
641 | 00:34:26,243 | 00:34:29,261 | It seems like a wonderfully positive story. | It seems like a wonderfully positive story. |
642 | 00:34:29,603 | 00:34:31,667 | But Matthew Parris does have concerns. | But Matthew Parris does have concerns. |
643 | 00:34:31,690 | 00:34:35,766 | - They're getting... - Well, what shall we say?..more liberal, more tolerant. | - They're getting... - Well, what shall we say?..more liberal, more tolerant. |
644 | 00:34:36,871 | 00:34:39,226 | What you and I would think of as better. | What you and I would think of as better. |
645 | 00:34:39,241 | 00:34:40,854 | We are actually getting better. | We are actually getting better. |
646 | 00:34:40,908 | 00:34:43,304 | I suppose, though, that... a fear that | I suppose, though, that... a fear that |
647 | 00:34:43,424 | 00:34:48,133 | certainly haunts me and others in the gay liberation movement | certainly haunts me and others in the gay liberation movement |
648 | 00:34:48,148 | 00:34:52,753 | is that if things could swing so rapidly in our favour as they have, | is that if things could swing so rapidly in our favour as they have, |
649 | 00:34:52,873 | 00:34:56,035 | could we, in a sort of Third Reich-like world, | could we, in a sort of Third Reich-like world, |
650 | 00:34:56,042 | 00:35:00,007 | see things swinging very rapidly, equally rapidly the other way? | see things swinging very rapidly, equally rapidly the other way? |
651 | 00:35:00,035 | 00:35:00,888 | A backlash. | A backlash. |
652 | 00:35:00,896 | 00:35:04,631 | How little anchored, perhaps, are these categories. | How little anchored, perhaps, are these categories. |
653 | 00:35:04,652 | 00:35:05,315 | Yes. | Yes. |
654 | 00:35:06,526 | 00:35:10,031 | There's a sort of feeling of hatred for bankers, for rich people, | There's a sort of feeling of hatred for bankers, for rich people, |
655 | 00:35:10,084 | 00:35:11,311 | for plutocrats, at the moment. | for plutocrats, at the moment. |
656 | 00:35:11,326 | 00:35:14,426 | I could imagine a little winter, a little ice age | I could imagine a little winter, a little ice age |
657 | 00:35:14,546 | 00:35:16,341 | for the richest in society | for the richest in society |
658 | 00:35:16,529 | 00:35:19,043 | coming as the Western economy sinks, | coming as the Western economy sinks, |
659 | 00:35:19,317 | 00:35:21,215 | and as people are looking for somebody to blame, | and as people are looking for somebody to blame, |
660 | 00:35:21,335 | 00:35:24,288 | just as the Jews got it in the neck, so to speak, | just as the Jews got it in the neck, so to speak, |
661 | 00:35:24,311 | 00:35:25,561 | between the two wars. | between the two wars. |
662 | 00:35:29,721 | 00:35:32,710 | I understand what Matthew Parris is getting at, | I understand what Matthew Parris is getting at, |
663 | 00:35:32,830 | 00:35:36,650 | but I think I'm more optimistic about human nature. | but I think I'm more optimistic about human nature. |
664 | 00:35:37,664 | 00:35:40,991 | I want to argue that, now we've left religion behind... | I want to argue that, now we've left religion behind... |
665 | 00:35:41,111 | 00:35:44,755 | we're getting better, more moral, and kinder. | we're getting better, more moral, and kinder. |
666 | 00:35:55,005 | 00:35:57,770 | If you want to understand what makes a human being good, | If you want to understand what makes a human being good, |
667 | 00:35:58,418 | 00:36:00,582 | watch them with a pet. | watch them with a pet. |
668 | 00:36:01,466 | 00:36:03,622 | Tiko is a wolf, or he thinks he's a wolf. | Tiko is a wolf, or he thinks he's a wolf. |
669 | 00:36:03,645 | 00:36:06,914 | His not very distant ancestors were wolves. | His not very distant ancestors were wolves. |
670 | 00:36:07,433 | 00:36:08,445 | Good dog, Tiko. | Good dog, Tiko. |
671 | 00:36:08,765 | 00:36:11,924 | He loves going for a walk because he sees what happened overnight, | He loves going for a walk because he sees what happened overnight, |
672 | 00:36:12,240 | 00:36:14,602 | which he can tell from the smells that were left. | which he can tell from the smells that were left. |
673 | 00:36:14,793 | 00:36:15,854 | Come on, Tiko. | Come on, Tiko. |
674 | 00:36:15,892 | 00:36:18,670 | He stops at every corner, stops at every lamppost. | He stops at every corner, stops at every lamppost. |
675 | 00:36:18,937 | 00:36:22,185 | It's sort of like reading the newspaper for him, I think. | It's sort of like reading the newspaper for him, I think. |
676 | 00:36:25,246 | 00:36:26,799 | Off we go. | Off we go. |
677 | 00:36:29,409 | 00:36:32,365 | It's a very different world to be in, a dog's world, | It's a very different world to be in, a dog's world, |
678 | 00:36:32,389 | 00:36:36,447 | and we anthropomorphise, we put ourselves in the position of the dog, | and we anthropomorphise, we put ourselves in the position of the dog, |
679 | 00:36:36,567 | 00:36:40,089 | project ourselves into the body of the dog and... | project ourselves into the body of the dog and... |
680 | 00:36:40,209 | 00:36:43,873 | we think we know what it's like to be a dog. And we don't. | we think we know what it's like to be a dog. And we don't. |
681 | 00:36:44,628 | 00:36:46,181 | We delude ourselves. | We delude ourselves. |
682 | 00:36:46,301 | 00:36:51,027 | But that's part of what goes on when we love a dog. | But that's part of what goes on when we love a dog. |
683 | 00:36:53,732 | 00:36:56,796 | Tiko, do you like going to puppy class? Do you? | Tiko, do you like going to puppy class? Do you? |
684 | 00:36:56,916 | 00:36:58,293 | And do you play with Figgy? | And do you play with Figgy? |
685 | 00:36:58,739 | 00:37:00,301 | And do you play with Denis? | And do you play with Denis? |
686 | 00:37:00,805 | 00:37:02,887 | Do you? What am I doing with my dog? | Do you? What am I doing with my dog? |
687 | 00:37:03,007 | 00:37:04,790 | Do you play with Watson? | Do you play with Watson? |
688 | 00:37:04,910 | 00:37:06,710 | I'm empathising, | I'm empathising, |
689 | 00:37:06,830 | 00:37:11,613 | I'm making an imaginative leap to see the world from a dog's perspective. | I'm making an imaginative leap to see the world from a dog's perspective. |
690 | 00:37:12,096 | 00:37:14,016 | Paw. Good boy. | Paw. Good boy. |
691 | 00:37:14,275 | 00:37:16,037 | Humans are extraordinarily good | Humans are extraordinarily good |
692 | 00:37:16,027 | 00:37:19,913 | at identifying with other humans and other species. | at identifying with other humans and other species. |
693 | 00:37:20,126 | 00:37:23,404 | And it has a profoundly moral effect. | And it has a profoundly moral effect. |
694 | 00:37:24,172 | 00:37:27,336 | When we see a dog or a person suffering, | When we see a dog or a person suffering, |
695 | 00:37:27,351 | 00:37:28,424 | we suffer, too. | we suffer, too. |
696 | 00:37:28,544 | 00:37:30,504 | We suffer vicariously. | We suffer vicariously. |
697 | 00:37:30,512 | 00:37:31,893 | It's a very powerful emotion. | It's a very powerful emotion. |
698 | 00:37:32,287 | 00:37:36,433 | If I see Tiko suffering, if he's ill, in pain, | If I see Tiko suffering, if he's ill, in pain, |
699 | 00:37:36,723 | 00:37:39,216 | I feel devastated. And... | I feel devastated. And... |
700 | 00:37:39,336 | 00:37:43,000 | it's exactly as though it was my own child, I suppose. | it's exactly as though it was my own child, I suppose. |
701 | 00:37:43,713 | 00:37:45,253 | Tiko, uppity-paw. | Tiko, uppity-paw. |
702 | 00:37:45,979 | 00:37:49,128 | Empathy is important for morality because... | Empathy is important for morality because... |
703 | 00:37:49,248 | 00:37:51,894 | perhaps the most fundamental principle of morality, | perhaps the most fundamental principle of morality, |
704 | 00:37:52,014 | 00:37:55,842 | the golden rule, involves putting yourself in the position of another. | the golden rule, involves putting yourself in the position of another. |
705 | 00:37:55,962 | 00:37:57,564 | Do as you would be done by. | Do as you would be done by. |
706 | 00:37:57,684 | 00:38:00,642 | How would you like it if you were treated like that? | How would you like it if you were treated like that? |
707 | 00:38:05,001 | 00:38:07,233 | We don't need God telling us the rule. | We don't need God telling us the rule. |
708 | 00:38:07,248 | 00:38:11,363 | Science shows we humans are hardwired to have empathy. | Science shows we humans are hardwired to have empathy. |
709 | 00:38:12,879 | 00:38:15,993 | Scientists can now scan which parts of the brain | Scientists can now scan which parts of the brain |
710 | 00:38:16,010 | 00:38:18,654 | register vicarious pain or pleasure. | register vicarious pain or pleasure. |
711 | 00:38:18,980 | 00:38:22,168 | They can track how hormones, like oxytocin, | They can track how hormones, like oxytocin, |
712 | 00:38:22,288 | 00:38:24,772 | which encourage compassion and nurturing, | which encourage compassion and nurturing, |
713 | 00:38:24,787 | 00:38:27,640 | act on the emotion systems in the brain. | act on the emotion systems in the brain. |
714 | 00:38:31,609 | 00:38:33,461 | Brain science helps us to see | Brain science helps us to see |
715 | 00:38:33,581 | 00:38:36,195 | why we find it a bad idea to steal, | why we find it a bad idea to steal, |
716 | 00:38:36,315 | 00:38:39,303 | why we hate to see somebody kicking a dog. | why we hate to see somebody kicking a dog. |
717 | 00:38:39,777 | 00:38:43,669 | We can trace the chemicals in the brain that reward kindness. | We can trace the chemicals in the brain that reward kindness. |
718 | 00:38:43,789 | 00:38:48,081 | We can see what goes on in the brain when we feel for others. | We can see what goes on in the brain when we feel for others. |
719 | 00:38:48,805 | 00:38:51,290 | Goodness is natural to us. | Goodness is natural to us. |
720 | 00:38:51,410 | 00:38:54,573 | Kindness is in our physiology. | Kindness is in our physiology. |
721 | 00:39:01,919 | 00:39:03,816 | So, you might ask, quite rightly, | So, you might ask, quite rightly, |
722 | 00:39:04,068 | 00:39:07,155 | if humans have this innate capacity for good, | if humans have this innate capacity for good, |
723 | 00:39:07,275 | 00:39:08,373 | why does it go wrong? | why does it go wrong? |
724 | 00:39:09,790 | 00:39:12,493 | Why do we still do bad things? | Why do we still do bad things? |
725 | 00:39:13,531 | 00:39:16,472 | Perhaps there's a scientific answer to that, too. | Perhaps there's a scientific answer to that, too. |
726 | 00:39:17,843 | 00:39:22,379 | Here, we go back to those primitive moral emotions that helped us survive. | Here, we go back to those primitive moral emotions that helped us survive. |
727 | 00:39:23,537 | 00:39:26,944 | You've got empathy, you've got kindness, | You've got empathy, you've got kindness, |
728 | 00:39:26,975 | 00:39:30,030 | you've got nurturing, you've got all of this, but you also have | you've got nurturing, you've got all of this, but you also have |
729 | 00:39:30,150 | 00:39:32,607 | disgust, you've got cruelty, you've got fear. | disgust, you've got cruelty, you've got fear. |
730 | 00:39:32,727 | 00:39:36,693 | All of those are evolved to protect you and your kin. | All of those are evolved to protect you and your kin. |
731 | 00:39:37,986 | 00:39:41,790 | The neuroscientist Kathleen Taylor has studied what happens | The neuroscientist Kathleen Taylor has studied what happens |
732 | 00:39:41,797 | 00:39:45,373 | when people decide that others are not included in their tribe. | when people decide that others are not included in their tribe. |
733 | 00:39:46,166 | 00:39:48,429 | She calls it "otherisation". | She calls it "otherisation". |
734 | 00:39:49,092 | 00:39:53,093 | The others are commonly classed as beasts or subhuman. | The others are commonly classed as beasts or subhuman. |
735 | 00:39:54,319 | 00:39:56,300 | You're not just saying that's my enemy, | You're not just saying that's my enemy, |
736 | 00:39:56,308 | 00:40:00,072 | you're actually saying, that is a less than human person, | you're actually saying, that is a less than human person, |
737 | 00:40:00,125 | 00:40:02,876 | I am not going to call that person the same moral status | I am not going to call that person the same moral status |
738 | 00:40:02,884 | 00:40:04,918 | as I would to my nearest and dearest. | as I would to my nearest and dearest. |
739 | 00:40:05,124 | 00:40:08,864 | Those who carried out the final solution in Nazi Germany | Those who carried out the final solution in Nazi Germany |
740 | 00:40:08,984 | 00:40:11,863 | could only have done it, presumably, by otherisation of the Jews? - Yeah. | could only have done it, presumably, by otherisation of the Jews? - Yeah. |
741 | 00:40:11,876 | 00:40:14,948 | Yes. Because one of the things that otherisation does is... | Yes. Because one of the things that otherisation does is... |
742 | 00:40:14,953 | 00:40:16,578 | it suppresses empathy. | it suppresses empathy. |
743 | 00:40:16,698 | 00:40:19,218 | So for example, the "Einsatzgruppen" (German: deployment groups) | So for example, the "Einsatzgruppen" (German: deployment groups) |
744 | 00:40:19,219 | 00:40:22,595 | the groups who were committing the worst atrocities on the Eastern Front, | the groups who were committing the worst atrocities on the Eastern Front, |
745 | 00:40:22,602 | 00:40:23,745 | in the Second World War, | in the Second World War, |
746 | 00:40:23,791 | 00:40:26,496 | they're not just forgetting about morality altogether, | they're not just forgetting about morality altogether, |
747 | 00:40:26,518 | 00:40:28,176 | and just engaging in cruelty. | and just engaging in cruelty. |
748 | 00:40:28,199 | 00:40:30,926 | Their cruelty is very targeted and very directed, | Their cruelty is very targeted and very directed, |
749 | 00:40:31,046 | 00:40:34,385 | and people who are part of their group | and people who are part of their group |
750 | 00:40:34,724 | 00:40:36,216 | escape cruelty, on the whole. | escape cruelty, on the whole. |
751 | 00:40:36,255 | 00:40:38,163 | And people who are not part of their group | And people who are not part of their group |
752 | 00:40:38,178 | 00:40:39,633 | are the ones who bear the brunt of it. | are the ones who bear the brunt of it. |
753 | 00:40:40,578 | 00:40:42,574 | But even in the times of horror, | But even in the times of horror, |
754 | 00:40:42,605 | 00:40:45,081 | there are moments which should be cherished | there are moments which should be cherished |
755 | 00:40:45,104 | 00:40:46,947 | where empathy breaks through. | where empathy breaks through. |
756 | 00:40:48,114 | 00:40:51,796 | There's an interesting example from the SS | There's an interesting example from the SS |
757 | 00:40:51,916 | 00:40:56,987 | of a man who is helping to dispose, as they put it, of some Jewish children. | of a man who is helping to dispose, as they put it, of some Jewish children. |
758 | 00:40:57,010 | 00:40:58,747 | His parents had already been killed. | His parents had already been killed. |
759 | 00:40:58,867 | 00:41:00,920 | And he talks about how he was doing it, | And he talks about how he was doing it, |
760 | 00:41:01,040 | 00:41:02,754 | and he had to take the hand of a little girl... | and he had to take the hand of a little girl... |
761 | 00:41:02,808 | 00:41:05,308 | and he just couldn't do it. His empathy came back | and he just couldn't do it. His empathy came back |
762 | 00:41:05,428 | 00:41:08,433 | and overwhelmed him. So he's got a lot of ideology, | and overwhelmed him. So he's got a lot of ideology, |
763 | 00:41:08,447 | 00:41:10,940 | a lot of group pressure saying these people are not human, | a lot of group pressure saying these people are not human, |
764 | 00:41:10,963 | 00:41:12,959 | you will not treat them as human, | you will not treat them as human, |
765 | 00:41:12,972 | 00:41:17,621 | but it's obvious that if the cues are sufficiently powerful, if you like, | but it's obvious that if the cues are sufficiently powerful, if you like, |
766 | 00:41:17,893 | 00:41:20,189 | that can go, that can be reversed. | that can go, that can be reversed. |
767 | 00:41:20,585 | 00:41:22,695 | He was on his ownfor a little while, with this little girl, | He was on his ownfor a little while, with this little girl, |
768 | 00:41:22,711 | 00:41:24,364 | and suddenly he was a dad... | and suddenly he was a dad... |
769 | 00:41:24,379 | 00:41:26,103 | - He realised he was human. - Yeah. | - He realised he was human. - Yeah. |
770 | 00:41:31,975 | 00:41:34,931 | If we are to build a non-religious morality, | If we are to build a non-religious morality, |
771 | 00:41:35,350 | 00:41:39,525 | one thing we must strenuously avoid is demonising another set of humans, | one thing we must strenuously avoid is demonising another set of humans, |
772 | 00:41:39,577 | 00:41:41,853 | or treating them as unequal. | or treating them as unequal. |
773 | 00:41:42,113 | 00:41:45,413 | Quite apart from anything else, this leads to a collapse of empathy. | Quite apart from anything else, this leads to a collapse of empathy. |
774 | 00:41:47,699 | 00:41:52,599 | What we need to do is expand the circle of those to whom we feel empathy. | What we need to do is expand the circle of those to whom we feel empathy. |
775 | 00:41:52,927 | 00:41:55,394 | Break down the barriers that divide us, | Break down the barriers that divide us, |
776 | 00:41:55,514 | 00:42:00,260 | the tribalisms of religion, class, race and ideology. | the tribalisms of religion, class, race and ideology. |
777 | 00:42:02,272 | 00:42:04,847 | Our scientific understanding of empathy, | Our scientific understanding of empathy, |
778 | 00:42:05,152 | 00:42:08,813 | and the memory of how we've got it wrong in the past can help. | and the memory of how we've got it wrong in the past can help. |
779 | 00:42:09,275 | 00:42:12,513 | And the good news is, we're already doing it. | And the good news is, we're already doing it. |
780 | 00:42:13,084 | 00:42:17,626 | 200 years ago, it was normal, acceptable, to keep slaves. | 200 years ago, it was normal, acceptable, to keep slaves. |
781 | 00:42:17,746 | 00:42:20,264 | Now, it would be considered barbaric. | Now, it would be considered barbaric. |
782 | 00:42:20,384 | 00:42:21,847 | The same with racism. | The same with racism. |
783 | 00:42:21,862 | 00:42:24,546 | I was brought up in British colonial Africa, | I was brought up in British colonial Africa, |
784 | 00:42:24,666 | 00:42:27,964 | and I vividly remember the patronising attitude at the time. | and I vividly remember the patronising attitude at the time. |
785 | 00:42:28,084 | 00:42:30,911 | The Africans are like children, they can't look after themselves. | The Africans are like children, they can't look after themselves. |
786 | 00:42:30,934 | 00:42:32,703 | We have to do it for them. | We have to do it for them. |
787 | 00:42:32,823 | 00:42:35,893 | Today, such an attitude would be unthinkable. | Today, such an attitude would be unthinkable. |
788 | 00:42:37,457 | 00:42:41,813 | Our capacity for empathy, together with a more rational, tolerant society, | Our capacity for empathy, together with a more rational, tolerant society, |
789 | 00:42:42,073 | 00:42:46,067 | is, I believe, making us more moral than ever before. | is, I believe, making us more moral than ever before. |
790 | 00:42:49,922 | 00:42:53,488 | And yet, if you were to believe some moralists and some newspapers, | And yet, if you were to believe some moralists and some newspapers, |
791 | 00:42:53,608 | 00:42:56,466 | society is going to hell in a handcart. | society is going to hell in a handcart. |
792 | 00:42:58,161 | 00:42:59,738 | But is it? | But is it? |
793 | 00:43:00,995 | 00:43:05,362 | The psychologist Steven Pinker has looked at the figures in detail, | The psychologist Steven Pinker has looked at the figures in detail, |
794 | 00:43:05,482 | 00:43:07,984 | including data from the British Home Office | including data from the British Home Office |
795 | 00:43:08,104 | 00:43:10,106 | and the US Bureau of Justice, | and the US Bureau of Justice, |
796 | 00:43:10,226 | 00:43:13,169 | and found that as religion declines, | and found that as religion declines, |
797 | 00:43:13,289 | 00:43:16,331 | we're becoming ever more civilised. | we're becoming ever more civilised. |
798 | 00:43:17,103 | 00:43:19,423 | I had no idea that, say, in the last 40 years, | I had no idea that, say, in the last 40 years, |
799 | 00:43:19,431 | 00:43:21,675 | the rate of rape had declined by 80%. | the rate of rape had declined by 80%. |
800 | 00:43:21,683 | 00:43:24,008 | - 80%? - 80% in the United States. | - 80%? - 80% in the United States. |
801 | 00:43:24,128 | 00:43:27,590 | The rate of domestic abuse in both the UK and the US... | The rate of domestic abuse in both the UK and the US... |
802 | 00:43:27,605 | 00:43:29,678 | That rape figure is even more surprising, because | That rape figure is even more surprising, because |
803 | 00:43:29,708 | 00:43:32,011 | presumably the number of reportings has gone up. | presumably the number of reportings has gone up. |
804 | 00:43:32,131 | 00:43:33,926 | Exactly. That's right. | Exactly. That's right. |
805 | 00:43:34,046 | 00:43:35,944 | Child abuse has gone down, | Child abuse has gone down, |
806 | 00:43:35,959 | 00:43:40,258 | attitudes towards racial minorities, attitudes towards homosexuals, | attitudes towards racial minorities, attitudes towards homosexuals, |
807 | 00:43:40,302 | 00:43:41,917 | our treatment of animals in laboratories. | our treatment of animals in laboratories. |
808 | 00:43:41,925 | 00:43:44,189 | And yet the perception of these things has gone in the other direction, | And yet the perception of these things has gone in the other direction, |
809 | 00:43:44,205 | 00:43:49,214 | because everybody thinks that child abuse has been climbing. | because everybody thinks that child abuse has been climbing. |
810 | 00:43:49,334 | 00:43:52,375 | It may be because of the increased concern | It may be because of the increased concern |
811 | 00:43:52,398 | 00:43:55,926 | that we both think that it's more prevalent than ever before, | that we both think that it's more prevalent than ever before, |
812 | 00:43:55,940 | 00:43:59,070 | and we've managed to put it down because people care about it, | and we've managed to put it down because people care about it, |
813 | 00:43:59,071 | 00:44:02,756 | take steps to minimise it and those steps clearly succeed. | take steps to minimise it and those steps clearly succeed. |
814 | 00:44:02,876 | 00:44:07,621 | And there are many positive developments that we take for granted | And there are many positive developments that we take for granted |
815 | 00:44:07,659 | 00:44:10,882 | because they are non-events, they're dogs that don't bark. | because they are non-events, they're dogs that don't bark. |
816 | 00:44:11,002 | 00:44:15,295 | An example would be the disappearance of war between developed states. | An example would be the disappearance of war between developed states. |
817 | 00:44:15,709 | 00:44:17,586 | Even in the developing world, | Even in the developing world, |
818 | 00:44:17,706 | 00:44:21,928 | where we think of as a war-torn hell-hole, | where we think of as a war-torn hell-hole, |
819 | 00:44:22,048 | 00:44:24,644 | the numbers show that the number of wars | the numbers show that the number of wars |
820 | 00:44:24,659 | 00:44:26,129 | and the numbers of deaths in war | and the numbers of deaths in war |
821 | 00:44:26,145 | 00:44:28,827 | have plummeted worldwide, in the last 20 years, | have plummeted worldwide, in the last 20 years, |
822 | 00:44:29,011 | 00:44:30,514 | since the end of the Cold War. | since the end of the Cold War. |
823 | 00:44:30,754 | 00:44:32,743 | Deaths are lower in absolute numbers. | Deaths are lower in absolute numbers. |
824 | 00:44:32,766 | 00:44:35,167 | In a world of seven billion people, | In a world of seven billion people, |
825 | 00:44:35,213 | 00:44:37,910 | fewer people are dying in warfare | fewer people are dying in warfare |
826 | 00:44:37,924 | 00:44:38,939 | than ever before. | than ever before. |
827 | 00:44:39,059 | 00:44:40,460 | Are we too down on ourselves? | Are we too down on ourselves? |
828 | 00:44:40,483 | 00:44:42,944 | Do you think that, actually, we're becoming more moral? | Do you think that, actually, we're becoming more moral? |
829 | 00:44:43,203 | 00:44:45,808 | I don't know if we're becoming more moral biologically, | I don't know if we're becoming more moral biologically, |
830 | 00:44:45,993 | 00:44:50,580 | but I think there is something about a society with free speech, | but I think there is something about a society with free speech, |
831 | 00:44:50,700 | 00:44:53,201 | with open enquiry, with rational debate, | with open enquiry, with rational debate, |
832 | 00:44:53,321 | 00:44:55,104 | with the accumulation of evidence, | with the accumulation of evidence, |
833 | 00:44:55,224 | 00:44:58,022 | that will tend to push us in a moral direction. | that will tend to push us in a moral direction. |
834 | 00:44:58,142 | 00:45:01,664 | - In particular, the whole current that we call humanism... - Yes. | - In particular, the whole current that we call humanism... - Yes. |
835 | 00:45:01,784 | 00:45:07,032 | ..which almost sounds banal and boring and treacly, nowadays, | ..which almost sounds banal and boring and treacly, nowadays, |
836 | 00:45:07,039 | 00:45:09,502 | simply because it's become second nature to us. | simply because it's become second nature to us. |
837 | 00:45:09,538 | 00:45:11,693 | But I think it's a radical idea in human history. | But I think it's a radical idea in human history. |
838 | 00:45:20,073 | 00:45:21,951 | A cynic about human nature | A cynic about human nature |
839 | 00:45:21,997 | 00:45:27,010 | might say that religious morality is an effective way of keeping people in line. | might say that religious morality is an effective way of keeping people in line. |
840 | 00:45:27,262 | 00:45:29,933 | The threat of hell, the reward of heaven. | The threat of hell, the reward of heaven. |
841 | 00:45:30,193 | 00:45:33,902 | But the rules of the holy books are out of date and often barbaric. | But the rules of the holy books are out of date and often barbaric. |
842 | 00:45:36,462 | 00:45:41,470 | Science shows that we're governed by quite logical hidden rules and customs, | Science shows that we're governed by quite logical hidden rules and customs, |
843 | 00:45:41,707 | 00:45:45,882 | and the highly evolved senses that humans have, of reason and empathy. | and the highly evolved senses that humans have, of reason and empathy. |
844 | 00:45:46,849 | 00:45:49,900 | More important we now live in a rational age | More important we now live in a rational age |
845 | 00:45:50,020 | 00:45:52,719 | and can look at where we've gone wrong in history, | and can look at where we've gone wrong in history, |
846 | 00:45:52,765 | 00:45:57,298 | and avoid the tribalism that divides and harms us. | and avoid the tribalism that divides and harms us. |
847 | 00:45:58,802 | 00:46:01,339 | This, surely, is real progress. | This, surely, is real progress. |
848 | 00:46:01,459 | 00:46:03,517 | We live in what may be a more peaceful, | We live in what may be a more peaceful, |
849 | 00:46:03,518 | 00:46:06,171 | more civilised world than ever before. | more civilised world than ever before. |
850 | 00:46:06,291 | 00:46:09,936 | We have the opportunity to develop a new morality, | We have the opportunity to develop a new morality, |
851 | 00:46:10,056 | 00:46:14,813 | and that is an exciting part of what it means to be human. | and that is an exciting part of what it means to be human. |
852 | 00:46:43,130 | 00:46:47,671 | Subtitling by Red Bee Media Ltd | Subtitling by Red Bee Media Ltd |