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1 00:00:05,239 00:00:07,373 In the criminal justice system, In the criminal justice system,
2 00:00:07,410 00:00:11,210 The people are represented by two separate Yet equally important groups The people are represented by two separate Yet equally important groups
3 00:00:11,211 00:00:12,911 The police who investigate crime The police who investigate crime
4 00:00:12,912 00:00:15,412 And the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. And the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders.
5 00:00:15,442 00:00:19,542 These are their stories.. These are their stories..
6 00:00:18,218 00:00:20,420 - All right, a little bit more. - All right, a little bit more.
7 00:00:20,487 00:00:23,356 Come on, Allie, come on. You can do better than that. Come on, Allie, come on. You can do better than that.
8 00:00:23,424 00:00:24,958 Let yourself go. Let yourself go.
9 00:00:25,025 00:00:26,893 Nice. Oh, my god. Nice. Oh, my god.
10 00:00:26,961 00:00:28,494 Give me a pout. Come on. Give me a pout. Come on.
11 00:00:28,562 00:00:29,862 Feel the clothes against your skin, baby. Feel the clothes against your skin, baby.
12 00:00:29,930 00:00:31,364 There you go. That's it. There you go. That's it.
13 00:00:31,432 00:00:33,900 Think nasty thoughts. I love it. It's beautiful. Think nasty thoughts. I love it. It's beautiful.
14 00:00:35,936 00:00:38,371 Hey. Hey! Hey. Hey!
15 00:00:38,439 00:00:39,906 We're trying to sell clothes here, man. We're trying to sell clothes here, man.
16 00:00:39,974 00:00:41,841 These are for billboards. You gotta think big. These are for billboards. You gotta think big.
17 00:00:41,909 00:00:43,643 - I got it, Sid. I got it. - I got it, Sid. I got it.
18 00:00:43,711 00:00:44,644 [laughter] [laughter]
19 00:00:44,712 00:00:47,146 - Who are they? - I don't know. - Who are they? - I don't know.
20 00:00:47,214 00:00:50,316 - If I'm not paying you to be here, get the hell out. - If I'm not paying you to be here, get the hell out.
21 00:00:50,384 00:00:51,484 [laughter] [laughter]
22 00:00:51,552 00:00:53,019 Am I paying you? Am I paying you?
23 00:00:53,087 00:00:54,721 - I'm the dj. - I'm the dj.
24 00:00:54,788 00:00:56,456 I spin records at one of your stores. I spin records at one of your stores.
25 00:00:56,523 00:00:58,391 - Oh, so you put this song on? - Oh, so you put this song on?
26 00:00:58,459 00:00:59,726 You're fired! You're fired!
27 00:00:59,793 00:01:02,695 You know what? In fact, everybody, get out! You know what? In fact, everybody, get out!
28 00:01:02,763 00:01:05,565 Everybody, let's go! Come on, out! Okay? Everybody, let's go! Come on, out! Okay?
29 00:01:05,632 00:01:07,367 Not you, baby. Everybody else. Not you, baby. Everybody else.
30 00:01:07,434 00:01:09,035 I'll finish the shoot myself. Thank you. I'll finish the shoot myself. Thank you.
31 00:01:09,103 00:01:11,371 Out! Out!
32 00:01:11,438 00:01:13,940 Come on, baby. That's it. Okay. Come on, baby. That's it. Okay.
33 00:01:14,008 00:01:17,910 Oh, my god! I love it! Oh, my god! I love it!
34 00:01:17,978 00:01:20,680 Oh, yeah, that's it. Oh, yeah, that's it.
35 00:01:20,748 00:01:22,882 - D.O.A.'s name is Sid Maxwell. - D.O.A.'s name is Sid Maxwell.
36 00:01:22,950 00:01:24,450 The neighbor came home at 3:00 a.M. The neighbor came home at 3:00 a.M.
37 00:01:24,518 00:01:26,386 And saw the door propped open. And saw the door propped open.
38 00:01:26,453 00:01:30,590 Almost had a heart attack when he saw the body. Almost had a heart attack when he saw the body.
39 00:01:30,657 00:01:33,226 - What do we got, a sex mishap? - What do we got, a sex mishap?
40 00:01:33,293 00:01:35,128 - If it was erotic asphyxia, he miscalculated. - If it was erotic asphyxia, he miscalculated.
41 00:01:35,195 00:01:38,631 No fluids. He lost consciousness too soon. No fluids. He lost consciousness too soon.
42 00:01:38,699 00:01:41,567 - The guy could've saved himself just by standing up. - The guy could've saved himself just by standing up.
43 00:01:41,635 00:01:43,469 - Pushing the limits is part of the thrill. - Pushing the limits is part of the thrill.
44 00:01:43,537 00:01:45,071 But if you take it a little too far... But if you take it a little too far...
45 00:01:45,139 00:01:47,140 - No happy ending. - No happy ending.
46 00:01:47,207 00:01:51,277 These look like tights. Double-knotted. These look like tights. Double-knotted.
47 00:01:51,345 00:01:52,912 He's supposed to have done this himself? He's supposed to have done this himself?
48 00:01:52,980 00:01:54,480 - He could've tied his hands in front, - He could've tied his hands in front,
49 00:01:54,548 00:01:57,483 Then stepped over them, like this. Then stepped over them, like this.
50 00:01:57,551 00:01:59,786 I'm just speculating. It's not from experience. I'm just speculating. It's not from experience.
51 00:01:59,853 00:02:01,888 - Good. - Good.
52 00:02:01,955 00:02:05,425 There was a photo shoot going on? There was a photo shoot going on?
53 00:02:05,492 00:02:08,995 - [exhales] tripod, no camera. - [exhales] tripod, no camera.
54 00:02:09,063 00:02:11,364 Here's the photographer's name. Here's the photographer's name.
55 00:02:11,432 00:02:12,732 - Yeah. - Yeah.
56 00:02:12,800 00:02:14,734 Looks like he missed the best shot. Looks like he missed the best shot.
57 00:03:12,479 00:03:13,879 - I gotta get going. - I gotta get going.
58 00:03:13,947 00:03:16,248 We just caught a fresh one. We just caught a fresh one.
59 00:03:16,316 00:03:18,684 - I'll alert the criminals you're on your way. - I'll alert the criminals you're on your way.
60 00:03:18,752 00:03:20,486 - May be no criminals involved. - May be no criminals involved.
61 00:03:20,554 00:03:22,988 Just solo sex gone horribly wrong. Just solo sex gone horribly wrong.
62 00:03:23,056 00:03:24,523 - Solo sex? - Solo sex?
63 00:03:24,591 00:03:26,459 That has to be wrong. That has to be wrong.
64 00:03:26,526 00:03:29,495 - Well, here we go. - Well, here we go.
65 00:03:29,563 00:03:32,431 First day of the new me. First day of the new me.
66 00:03:48,515 00:03:52,118 What do you think? What do you think?
67 00:03:52,185 00:03:54,854 - I always had a thing for Grace Jones. - I always had a thing for Grace Jones.
68 00:03:58,191 00:04:00,493 You're beautiful. You're beautiful.
69 00:04:09,903 00:04:13,372 - Sid seemed fine yesterday. - Sid seemed fine yesterday.
70 00:04:13,440 00:04:15,841 Manic. Total prick, like always. Manic. Total prick, like always.
71 00:04:15,909 00:04:17,843 You can be that way if you're rich, I guess. You can be that way if you're rich, I guess.
72 00:04:17,911 00:04:19,545 - How did he get rich? - How did he get rich?
73 00:04:19,613 00:04:21,547 - By starting skintight apparel. - By starting skintight apparel.
74 00:04:21,615 00:04:24,283 He was the sexy underwear king of the lower east side. He was the sexy underwear king of the lower east side.
75 00:04:24,351 00:04:26,852 He threw everybody out around 6:00, including me. He threw everybody out around 6:00, including me.
76 00:04:26,920 00:04:28,854 - He threw the photographer out of a photo shoot? - He threw the photographer out of a photo shoot?
77 00:04:28,922 00:04:30,956 - Sid liked to do things himself. - Sid liked to do things himself.
78 00:04:31,024 00:04:32,491 - Yeah. So we gather. - Yeah. So we gather.
79 00:04:32,559 00:04:34,026 - The girl stayed behind, though. - The girl stayed behind, though.
80 00:04:34,094 00:04:35,327 - The model? - The model?
81 00:04:35,395 00:04:38,764 - Model, hooker, girlfriend, employee of the month. - Model, hooker, girlfriend, employee of the month.
82 00:04:38,832 00:04:41,000 It was kind of a fluid position. It was kind of a fluid position.
83 00:04:41,067 00:04:43,435 - Uh-huh. - Uh-huh.
84 00:04:43,503 00:04:46,172 - Sid and I met when I was working three jobs - Sid and I met when I was working three jobs
85 00:04:46,239 00:04:48,507 And sharing a loft with six roommates. And sharing a loft with six roommates.
86 00:04:48,575 00:04:50,009 He hired me on the spot. He hired me on the spot.
87 00:04:50,076 00:04:51,777 - Hired you to do what, exactly? - Hired you to do what, exactly?
88 00:04:51,845 00:04:53,279 Hold up. Hold up.
89 00:04:53,346 00:04:55,114 - Anything Sid wanted. - Anything Sid wanted.
90 00:04:55,182 00:04:56,549 Working in the store, modeling. Working in the store, modeling.
91 00:04:56,616 00:04:59,985 - Spotting for him during s & m sessions? - Spotting for him during s & m sessions?
92 00:05:00,053 00:05:01,720 - Sid said he wanted to try something new. - Sid said he wanted to try something new.
93 00:05:01,788 00:05:02,922 I didn't want to seem like a prude. I didn't want to seem like a prude.
94 00:05:02,989 00:05:04,390 He just wanted me to watch. He just wanted me to watch.
95 00:05:04,457 00:05:06,625 - So did you? - So did you?
96 00:05:06,693 00:05:08,160 - I told him I had to go get cigarettes at the store. - I told him I had to go get cigarettes at the store.
97 00:05:08,228 00:05:10,396 I was weirded out. I just went home. I was weirded out. I just went home.
98 00:05:10,463 00:05:11,564 - So you just left him hanging there - So you just left him hanging there
99 00:05:11,631 00:05:12,598 With his hands tied behind his back? With his hands tied behind his back?
100 00:05:12,666 00:05:13,866 - No. - No.
101 00:05:13,934 00:05:18,437 His hands were not tied when I left. His hands were not tied when I left.
102 00:05:18,505 00:05:20,673 - Did any of his staff have complaints? - Did any of his staff have complaints?
103 00:05:20,740 00:05:23,075 - Yeah, there was one girl. She got pretty freaked out. - Yeah, there was one girl. She got pretty freaked out.
104 00:05:23,143 00:05:25,144 I think she sued him. I think she sued him.
105 00:05:27,214 00:05:29,148 - That son of a bitch. - That son of a bitch.
106 00:05:29,216 00:05:31,050 He pulled my top off at a photo shoot He pulled my top off at a photo shoot
107 00:05:31,117 00:05:32,852 At the st. Patrick's day parade. At the st. Patrick's day parade.
108 00:05:32,919 00:05:35,354 No warning. Just, "oops, you're naked." No warning. Just, "oops, you're naked."
109 00:05:35,422 00:05:37,957 - And that was more than what you bargained for? - And that was more than what you bargained for?
110 00:05:38,024 00:05:41,727 - My job description didn't say "get raped by leprechauns." - My job description didn't say "get raped by leprechauns."
111 00:05:41,795 00:05:43,729 Sid's lawyers said I should have understood Sid's lawyers said I should have understood
112 00:05:43,797 00:05:46,832 I was working in a highly-sexualized environment. I was working in a highly-sexualized environment.
113 00:05:46,900 00:05:48,267 - Well, it sounds like you had a good case. - Well, it sounds like you had a good case.
114 00:05:48,335 00:05:49,602 - We'll never know. - We'll never know.
115 00:05:49,669 00:05:52,271 Sid's lawyers buried my guy in so many motions, Sid's lawyers buried my guy in so many motions,
116 00:05:52,339 00:05:54,506 I couldn't afford to keep going. I couldn't afford to keep going.
117 00:05:54,574 00:05:57,209 I lost. Sid won. I lost. Sid won.
118 00:05:57,277 00:05:59,812 - When was the last time you saw Mr. Maxwell? - When was the last time you saw Mr. Maxwell?
119 00:05:59,880 00:06:01,380 - I don't know. Six months. - I don't know. Six months.
120 00:06:01,448 00:06:02,615 - No contact after that? - No contact after that?
121 00:06:02,682 00:06:04,650 - I told myself the one good thing - I told myself the one good thing
122 00:06:04,718 00:06:06,552 Was I'd never have to hear his voice again. Was I'd never have to hear his voice again.
123 00:06:06,620 00:06:09,255 And I didn't. And I didn't.
124 00:06:09,322 00:06:12,291 And now I never will. And now I never will.
125 00:06:12,359 00:06:16,495 - Huh. This guy had a way with women. - Huh. This guy had a way with women.
126 00:06:16,563 00:06:18,130 All sex all the time. All sex all the time.
127 00:06:18,198 00:06:20,733 - His company sells five-Dollar t-shirts for $40. - His company sells five-Dollar t-shirts for $40.
128 00:06:20,800 00:06:22,234 Sex is part of the brand. Sex is part of the brand.
129 00:06:22,302 00:06:25,337 - And his model-slash- girlfriend-slash-whatever - And his model-slash- girlfriend-slash-whatever
130 00:06:25,405 00:06:26,538 Was fine with that? Was fine with that?
131 00:06:26,606 00:06:27,973 - According to her. - According to her.
132 00:06:28,041 00:06:29,308 - The building's surveillance camera - The building's surveillance camera
133 00:06:29,376 00:06:32,144 Shows her leaving Maxwell's place at 10:00. Shows her leaving Maxwell's place at 10:00.
134 00:06:32,212 00:06:34,013 Then it stopped working. Then it stopped working.
135 00:06:34,080 00:06:36,815 - Well, that's a coincidence. - Well, that's a coincidence.
136 00:06:36,883 00:06:38,918 - She left the apartment door ajar - She left the apartment door ajar
137 00:06:38,985 00:06:40,386 So she could get back in. So she could get back in.
138 00:06:40,453 00:06:42,888 The building door had a keypad lock. The building door had a keypad lock.
139 00:06:42,956 00:06:44,223 Maxwell gave her the number, Maxwell gave her the number,
140 00:06:44,291 00:06:46,158 But she took off for brooklyn instead. But she took off for brooklyn instead.
141 00:06:46,226 00:06:48,260 - Where an atm saw her withdrawing cash at 10:30. - Where an atm saw her withdrawing cash at 10:30.
142 00:06:48,328 00:06:51,230 Time of death was after midnight. Time of death was after midnight.
143 00:06:51,298 00:06:52,498 - Sag paneer, loo? - Sag paneer, loo?
144 00:06:52,565 00:06:54,066 - Oh, no thanks. - Oh, no thanks.
145 00:06:54,134 00:06:56,035 Me and food aren't getting along that great. Me and food aren't getting along that great.
146 00:06:56,102 00:06:59,838 - "you are a hideous pig." - "you are a hideous pig."
147 00:06:59,906 00:07:02,074 Uh, it's, uh, "I heard your lawyer quit. Uh, it's, uh, "I heard your lawyer quit.
148 00:07:02,142 00:07:03,876 Now how are you going to pay for the boob job you need?" Now how are you going to pay for the boob job you need?"
149 00:07:03,944 00:07:06,111 It's a text message between Sid Maxwell and Bonnie Allman, It's a text message between Sid Maxwell and Bonnie Allman,
150 00:07:06,179 00:07:07,780 The girl who sued him. The girl who sued him.
151 00:07:07,847 00:07:09,715 - She said she hadn't heard from him in six months. - She said she hadn't heard from him in six months.
152 00:07:09,783 00:07:11,884 - She said she hadn't heard his voice. - She said she hadn't heard his voice.
153 00:07:11,952 00:07:16,622 Maxwell sent this to her last Monday. Maxwell sent this to her last Monday.
154 00:07:16,690 00:07:19,158 Yeah. Tuesday, Maxwell filed a complaint. Yeah. Tuesday, Maxwell filed a complaint.
155 00:07:19,225 00:07:20,793 His car was vandalized. His car was vandalized.
156 00:07:20,860 00:07:24,863 - Bonnie Allman strikes back? - Bonnie Allman strikes back?
157 00:07:24,931 00:07:27,166 - "text this, scumbag!" - "text this, scumbag!"
158 00:07:27,233 00:07:29,468 - Yeah. "love, Bonnie"? - Yeah. "love, Bonnie"?
159 00:07:29,536 00:07:32,171 - She saved the ten cents it would cost to reply by text, - She saved the ten cents it would cost to reply by text,
160 00:07:32,238 00:07:34,373 And this was so much more satisfying. And this was so much more satisfying.
161 00:07:34,441 00:07:36,308 - The car doesn't look like it's been driven - The car doesn't look like it's been driven
162 00:07:36,376 00:07:37,443 Since the incident. Since the incident.
163 00:07:37,510 00:07:39,078 The driver's window is smashed, The driver's window is smashed,
164 00:07:39,145 00:07:41,347 With shards of glass embedded in the seat. With shards of glass embedded in the seat.
165 00:07:41,414 00:07:43,882 Whoever did this used some force. Whoever did this used some force.
166 00:07:43,950 00:07:45,784 - Yeah. Somebody cared. - Yeah. Somebody cared.
167 00:07:45,852 00:07:47,519 - I've got some prints where the basher - I've got some prints where the basher
168 00:07:47,587 00:07:49,688 May have leaned in to slash the upholstery. May have leaned in to slash the upholstery.
169 00:07:49,756 00:07:52,391 I'll get them over to latents. I'll get them over to latents.
170 00:07:52,459 00:07:53,892 - No match. - No match.
171 00:07:53,960 00:07:56,962 The prints on the car don't belong to Bonnie Allman. The prints on the car don't belong to Bonnie Allman.
172 00:07:57,030 00:07:58,530 - Do they match anyone we know? - Do they match anyone we know?
173 00:07:58,598 00:08:00,899 - Got a dozen hits for a guy named Todd bissell. - Got a dozen hits for a guy named Todd bissell.
174 00:08:00,967 00:08:02,368 He's a perp that was arrested He's a perp that was arrested
175 00:08:02,435 00:08:04,069 For public lewdness 12 years ago. For public lewdness 12 years ago.
176 00:08:04,137 00:08:07,139 - Okay. B-I--two ss? - Okay. B-I--two ss?
177 00:08:07,207 00:08:11,343 - Yeah. - All right. - Yeah. - All right.
178 00:08:11,411 00:08:13,712 Mr. Bissell. Mr. Bissell.
179 00:08:13,780 00:08:17,750 Am I nuts, or is that Sid Maxwell with a moustache? Am I nuts, or is that Sid Maxwell with a moustache?
180 00:08:17,817 00:08:19,551 - 12 years ago, lean and hungry. - 12 years ago, lean and hungry.
181 00:08:19,619 00:08:20,886 He must have changed his name He must have changed his name
182 00:08:20,954 00:08:22,388 When he became the underwear king. When he became the underwear king.
183 00:08:22,455 00:08:26,658 - Okay. Let's see what else he was up to as Todd bissell. - Okay. Let's see what else he was up to as Todd bissell.
184 00:08:26,726 00:08:29,661 - What's that? - "flashposse.Net. - What's that? - "flashposse.Net.
185 00:08:29,729 00:08:32,931 A site dedicated to righting social wrongs." A site dedicated to righting social wrongs."
186 00:08:32,999 00:08:35,034 - Is he typing on that with both hands? - Is he typing on that with both hands?
187 00:08:35,101 00:08:37,069 - Yeah, and flashposse is mad. - Yeah, and flashposse is mad.
188 00:08:37,137 00:08:40,506 "this idiot veered into my lane on the fdr today. "this idiot veered into my lane on the fdr today.
189 00:08:40,573 00:08:44,343 He was texting while driving. I could have been killed." He was texting while driving. I could have been killed."
190 00:08:44,411 00:08:48,080 Look at this one from Freddy-six in long island. Look at this one from Freddy-six in long island.
191 00:08:48,148 00:08:51,517 "somebody needs to kill him before he does kill someone." "somebody needs to kill him before he does kill someone."
192 00:08:51,584 00:08:53,585 - How'd they know who it was? - How'd they know who it was?
193 00:08:53,653 00:08:56,755 - Hmm, "I identified the car and model - Hmm, "I identified the car and model
194 00:08:56,823 00:08:59,358 "from its dashboard and then hacked into dmv records "from its dashboard and then hacked into dmv records
195 00:08:59,426 00:09:03,228 "for every '79 Mercedes that color in New York, "for every '79 Mercedes that color in New York,
196 00:09:03,296 00:09:04,830 "New Jersey and Connecticut. "New Jersey and Connecticut.
197 00:09:04,898 00:09:06,665 "I found one that is registered "I found one that is registered
198 00:09:06,733 00:09:07,933 To someone named Todd bissell." To someone named Todd bissell."
199 00:09:08,001 00:09:10,069 - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm.
200 00:09:10,136 00:09:12,137 - They posted his address. - They posted his address.
201 00:09:12,205 00:09:15,741 "326 bowery, apartment 11a, "326 bowery, apartment 11a,
202 00:09:15,809 00:09:18,177 "in case anybody wants to drop by "in case anybody wants to drop by
203 00:09:18,244 00:09:21,146 And teach this jerk some manners." And teach this jerk some manners."
204 00:09:21,214 00:09:23,215 - Somebody did. - Somebody did.
205 00:09:25,752 00:09:27,519 - It's not a blog. - It's not a blog.
206 00:09:27,587 00:09:29,288 It's a forum for corrective social action. It's a forum for corrective social action.
207 00:09:29,355 00:09:32,191 - Yeah, well, it struck me like a well-chummed shark tank. - Yeah, well, it struck me like a well-chummed shark tank.
208 00:09:32,258 00:09:34,526 - Look, if somebody lets their dog crap on the sidewalk, - Look, if somebody lets their dog crap on the sidewalk,
209 00:09:34,594 00:09:36,628 That's an offense to everybody that walks by, right? That's an offense to everybody that walks by, right?
210 00:09:36,696 00:09:38,297 This is just a way of striking back. This is just a way of striking back.
211 00:09:38,364 00:09:39,565 - So you take a picture of the owner, - So you take a picture of the owner,
212 00:09:39,632 00:09:40,933 Find out who they are, Find out who they are,
213 00:09:41,000 00:09:42,401 Post their address and phone number. Post their address and phone number.
214 00:09:42,469 00:09:44,536 - So people can tell them what they think. - So people can tell them what they think.
215 00:09:44,604 00:09:46,171 If they shove dog crap in our faces, If they shove dog crap in our faces,
216 00:09:46,239 00:09:47,406 They can take a phone call. They can take a phone call.
217 00:09:47,474 00:09:51,310 - Hmm. How do you get this information? - Hmm. How do you get this information?
218 00:09:51,377 00:09:53,579 - Flashposse.Net has thousands of visitors. - Flashposse.Net has thousands of visitors.
219 00:09:53,646 00:09:54,947 Between us, we have a lot of expertise, Between us, we have a lot of expertise,
220 00:09:55,014 00:09:56,215 A lot of connections. A lot of connections.
221 00:09:56,282 00:09:59,284 - In China they call it a human flesh search engine. - In China they call it a human flesh search engine.
222 00:09:59,352 00:10:00,752 - Yeah, there was a woman there, - Yeah, there was a woman there,
223 00:10:00,820 00:10:02,621 She posted a video of herself She posted a video of herself
224 00:10:02,689 00:10:04,223 Stepping on a kitten and killing it. Stepping on a kitten and killing it.
225 00:10:04,290 00:10:06,258 Just her shoe and the kitten. Just her shoe and the kitten.
226 00:10:06,326 00:10:08,527 People blew up the video, People blew up the video,
227 00:10:08,595 00:10:09,728 They found out where the shoe came from, They found out where the shoe came from,
228 00:10:09,796 00:10:10,863 They identified a building in the background. They identified a building in the background.
229 00:10:10,930 00:10:12,331 - They found out who it was. - They found out who it was.
230 00:10:12,398 00:10:14,366 She lost her job, she had to go into hiding. She lost her job, she had to go into hiding.
231 00:10:14,434 00:10:16,335 - Do you feel bad for her? I don't. - Do you feel bad for her? I don't.
232 00:10:16,402 00:10:18,704 - We're here about a man named Todd bissell, - We're here about a man named Todd bissell,
233 00:10:18,771 00:10:21,840 And as far as I know, he didn't massacre any cats. And as far as I know, he didn't massacre any cats.
234 00:10:21,908 00:10:23,642 - Bissell's just as bad. - Bissell's just as bad.
235 00:10:23,710 00:10:26,411 Do you know how dangerous texting while driving is? Do you know how dangerous texting while driving is?
236 00:10:26,479 00:10:28,780 - Yeah. "somebody should kill this guy." - Yeah. "somebody should kill this guy."
237 00:10:28,848 00:10:30,215 From your website. From your website.
238 00:10:30,283 00:10:32,618 I didn't realize it deserved the death penalty. I didn't realize it deserved the death penalty.
239 00:10:32,685 00:10:34,686 - You never heard of hyperbole, detective? - You never heard of hyperbole, detective?
240 00:10:34,754 00:10:37,456 - It wasn't hyperbole. Todd bissell was murdered. - It wasn't hyperbole. Todd bissell was murdered.
241 00:10:37,524 00:10:39,858 - Under his other name, Sid Maxwell. - Under his other name, Sid Maxwell.
242 00:10:39,926 00:10:41,527 - And you think we had something to do with that? - And you think we had something to do with that?
243 00:10:41,594 00:10:43,762 - We'd like the names of your members - We'd like the names of your members
244 00:10:43,830 00:10:47,299 Who posted threats against Mr. Bissell. Who posted threats against Mr. Bissell.
245 00:10:47,367 00:10:48,433 - No. - No.
246 00:10:48,501 00:10:51,670 - Hmm. - Hmm.
247 00:10:51,738 00:10:54,273 We are the police, Mr. Leary. We are the police, Mr. Leary.
248 00:10:54,340 00:10:59,344 And it's our job to take "corrective social action." And it's our job to take "corrective social action."
249 00:11:03,016 00:11:05,951 - No. - No.
250 00:11:06,019 00:11:08,320 - All right, all right. - All right, all right.
251 00:11:21,324 00:11:23,558 - Well, the comments on the website are pretty intense. - Well, the comments on the website are pretty intense.
252 00:11:23,626 00:11:26,461 - The comments on that website are probably free speech. - The comments on that website are probably free speech.
253 00:11:26,529 00:11:28,797 It's not going to be easy to uphold a subpoena. It's not going to be easy to uphold a subpoena.
254 00:11:28,865 00:11:31,566 - Is this free speech? It's from the site. - Is this free speech? It's from the site.
255 00:11:31,634 00:11:33,802 This is Maxwell's vandalized car. This is Maxwell's vandalized car.
256 00:11:33,870 00:11:36,304 - You think the guy who vandalized the car - You think the guy who vandalized the car
257 00:11:36,372 00:11:37,906 Took the picture? Took the picture?
258 00:11:37,974 00:11:40,442 - We can't prove it. - We can't prove it.
259 00:11:40,510 00:11:42,577 - Neither can I. - Neither can I.
260 00:11:42,645 00:11:46,014 Listen, if you can show the flashposse's hot air Listen, if you can show the flashposse's hot air
261 00:11:46,082 00:11:48,583 Has real world consequences, I might be able Has real world consequences, I might be able
262 00:11:48,651 00:11:50,285 To convince a judge to give us those names. To convince a judge to give us those names.
263 00:11:50,353 00:11:52,320 - Well, that site goes after a lot of people. - Well, that site goes after a lot of people.
264 00:11:52,388 00:11:54,890 - Find me a good one. - Find me a good one.
265 00:11:58,060 00:11:59,728 - I thought the worst thing that could happen - I thought the worst thing that could happen
266 00:11:59,795 00:12:02,230 Was when my husband committed suicide. Was when my husband committed suicide.
267 00:12:02,298 00:12:05,433 Then, a month later, the phone calls started. Then, a month later, the phone calls started.
268 00:12:05,501 00:12:07,335 People I didn't know. People I didn't know.
269 00:12:07,403 00:12:08,770 They called me a whore. They called me a whore.
270 00:12:08,838 00:12:10,472 They said it was my fault. They said it was my fault.
271 00:12:10,540 00:12:13,642 The website posted excerpts from my husband's diary The website posted excerpts from my husband's diary
272 00:12:13,709 00:12:16,077 That it got from his parents. That it got from his parents.
273 00:12:16,145 00:12:18,380 They said I had an affair They said I had an affair
274 00:12:18,447 00:12:20,682 And that's why Donald killed himself. And that's why Donald killed himself.
275 00:12:20,750 00:12:22,584 I asked the website to take them down. I asked the website to take them down.
276 00:12:22,652 00:12:25,754 They said they were providing a public service, They said they were providing a public service,
277 00:12:25,821 00:12:28,490 Letting the public decide what was right and what was wrong. Letting the public decide what was right and what was wrong.
278 00:12:28,558 00:12:31,259 - It's my understanding that Mr. Leary offered ms. Davies - It's my understanding that Mr. Leary offered ms. Davies
279 00:12:31,327 00:12:33,028 The chance to tell her side of the story. The chance to tell her side of the story.
280 00:12:33,095 00:12:34,296 - I'm supposed to go on a public website - I'm supposed to go on a public website
281 00:12:34,363 00:12:36,965 And tell the world I had an affair, And tell the world I had an affair,
282 00:12:37,033 00:12:40,435 But my husband had 20, and he was clinically depressed? But my husband had 20, and he was clinically depressed?
283 00:12:40,503 00:12:43,939 Isn't that private? Shouldn't that be private? Isn't that private? Shouldn't that be private?
284 00:12:44,006 00:12:46,241 Who made you god? Who made you god?
285 00:12:46,309 00:12:48,143 Why don't you leave people alone? Why don't you leave people alone?
286 00:12:48,211 00:12:50,178 - Okay, okay. Thank you, ma'am. - Okay, okay. Thank you, ma'am.
287 00:12:52,848 00:12:56,751 Okay, now what does that have to do with this subpoena? Okay, now what does that have to do with this subpoena?
288 00:12:56,819 00:12:59,387 - It demonstrates that threats made on Mr. Leary's website - It demonstrates that threats made on Mr. Leary's website
289 00:12:59,455 00:13:00,388 Have consequences. Have consequences.
290 00:13:00,456 00:13:01,456 - Ms. Rubirosa is talking about - Ms. Rubirosa is talking about
291 00:13:01,524 00:13:02,757 Constitutionally-protected opinions. Constitutionally-protected opinions.
292 00:13:02,825 00:13:04,492 The subpoena should be quashed. The subpoena should be quashed.
293 00:13:04,560 00:13:05,560 - No, I am talking about - No, I am talking about
294 00:13:05,628 00:13:06,928 Specific threats made to kill a man Specific threats made to kill a man
295 00:13:06,996 00:13:08,463 Who soon after was killed. Who soon after was killed.
296 00:13:08,531 00:13:09,764 - That's venting. It's hot air. - That's venting. It's hot air.
297 00:13:09,832 00:13:11,233 "I could kill that guy who stole my parking place." "I could kill that guy who stole my parking place."
298 00:13:11,300 00:13:12,767 It's a figure of speech. It's a figure of speech.
299 00:13:12,835 00:13:14,970 - Not to Rebecca Davies, it's not, as we just heard. - Not to Rebecca Davies, it's not, as we just heard.
300 00:13:15,037 00:13:16,271 - If anyone harassed that woman, arrest them. - If anyone harassed that woman, arrest them.
301 00:13:16,339 00:13:17,572 They committed a crime. They committed a crime.
302 00:13:17,640 00:13:19,975 But people who expressed opinions on a website did not. But people who expressed opinions on a website did not.
303 00:13:20,042 00:13:24,279 - I feel sorry for the lady, ms. Rubirosa. I really do. - I feel sorry for the lady, ms. Rubirosa. I really do.
304 00:13:24,347 00:13:28,483 But I honestly don't see what she has to do with Mr. Maxwell. But I honestly don't see what she has to do with Mr. Maxwell.
305 00:13:30,586 00:13:32,887 - Rubirosa just called. [cell phone rings] - Rubirosa just called. [cell phone rings]
306 00:13:32,955 00:13:34,789 No subpoena for the names. No subpoena for the names.
307 00:13:34,857 00:13:35,790 - Bernard. - Bernard.
308 00:13:35,858 00:13:37,092 - So we find another way. - So we find another way.
309 00:13:37,159 00:13:38,927 - Who is this? - Who is this?
310 00:13:38,995 00:13:41,029 Hey, screw you. Hey, screw you.
311 00:13:41,097 00:13:44,032 - I'm guessing that wasn't your mother. - I'm guessing that wasn't your mother.
312 00:13:44,100 00:13:45,400 - Somebody calling me a Nazi. - Somebody calling me a Nazi.
313 00:13:45,468 00:13:47,502 You know, an hour ago, somebody called, You know, an hour ago, somebody called,
314 00:13:47,570 00:13:50,205 Telling me that I needed to go on a diet. Telling me that I needed to go on a diet.
315 00:13:50,273 00:13:51,640 - Maybe that was your mother. - Maybe that was your mother.
316 00:13:51,707 00:13:52,641 - No. - No.
317 00:13:52,708 00:13:53,642 [typing] [typing]
318 00:13:53,709 00:13:54,643 [computer beeps] [computer beeps]
319 00:13:54,710 00:13:57,946 Oh, flashposse.Net. Oh, flashposse.Net.
320 00:14:00,750 00:14:02,017 - "detective Kevin Bernard. - "detective Kevin Bernard.
321 00:14:02,084 00:14:03,318 Call and tell him what you think." Call and tell him what you think."
322 00:14:03,386 00:14:05,687 - Oh, they even posted your cell phone number. - Oh, they even posted your cell phone number.
323 00:14:05,755 00:14:06,755 Thoughtful. Thoughtful.
324 00:14:06,822 00:14:08,390 - My unlisted number. - My unlisted number.
325 00:14:08,457 00:14:09,891 Somebody hacked it. Somebody hacked it.
326 00:14:09,959 00:14:11,393 - "corrective social action." - "corrective social action."
327 00:14:11,460 00:14:12,394 [computer beeps] [computer beeps]
328 00:14:12,461 00:14:13,928 - New post coming in. - New post coming in.
329 00:14:13,996 00:14:17,232 "this cop bully should be ashamed of himself." "this cop bully should be ashamed of himself."
330 00:14:17,300 00:14:19,901 - You know, if we were set up right, - You know, if we were set up right,
331 00:14:19,969 00:14:22,203 We could trace these messages as they're posted. We could trace these messages as they're posted.
332 00:14:22,271 00:14:23,738 That's when the links are open. That's when the links are open.
333 00:14:23,806 00:14:25,874 - So we wouldn't need a subpoena. - So we wouldn't need a subpoena.
334 00:14:25,941 00:14:30,845 - Just a big juicy target to get the ranters ranting. - Just a big juicy target to get the ranters ranting.
335 00:14:34,750 00:14:37,819 - What about lupo? He's juicy. - What about lupo? He's juicy.
336 00:14:37,887 00:14:38,987 - [laughs] thank you. - [laughs] thank you.
337 00:14:39,088 00:14:40,488 But four years in intel. But four years in intel.
338 00:14:40,556 00:14:41,890 We don't want anyone digging through that. We don't want anyone digging through that.
339 00:14:41,957 00:14:46,328 - Plus, you seem to be the one they like, detective. - Plus, you seem to be the one they like, detective.
340 00:14:52,101 00:14:53,935 - These guys are good. - These guys are good.
341 00:14:54,003 00:14:55,136 They've got your credit record up now They've got your credit record up now
342 00:14:55,204 00:14:56,471 And police reports. And police reports.
343 00:14:56,539 00:14:59,708 Were you arrested for speeding in California in 1996? Were you arrested for speeding in California in 1996?
344 00:14:59,775 00:15:02,377 - Look, I got a ticket. I paid the fine. - Look, I got a ticket. I paid the fine.
345 00:15:02,445 00:15:07,949 - Okay, and here is billyboy14. - Okay, and here is billyboy14.
346 00:15:08,017 00:15:09,918 "this cop is an outrage. "this cop is an outrage.
347 00:15:09,985 00:15:12,821 A policeman's first duty is to protect our liberties." A policeman's first duty is to protect our liberties."
348 00:15:12,888 00:15:16,858 And here is our trace on billyboy. And here is our trace on billyboy.
349 00:15:16,926 00:15:18,626 - Where is he? - Where is he?
350 00:15:18,694 00:15:20,929 - He's in astoria. - He's in astoria.
351 00:15:20,996 00:15:22,764 - All right, write him back. - All right, write him back.
352 00:15:22,832 00:15:25,100 - Okay, what's my screen name? - Okay, what's my screen name?
353 00:15:25,167 00:15:26,668 - "detective Bernard." - "detective Bernard."
354 00:15:26,736 00:15:28,603 We want them to know it's you. We want them to know it's you.
355 00:15:28,671 00:15:29,804 - All right. - All right.
356 00:15:29,872 00:15:30,939 [typing] [typing]
357 00:15:31,006 00:15:36,845 "my first duty is to arrest criminals "my first duty is to arrest criminals
358 00:15:36,912 00:15:40,548 Who hide behind bogus free speech." Who hide behind bogus free speech."
359 00:15:40,616 00:15:45,286 - Hmm, nice. - Hmm, nice.
360 00:15:45,354 00:15:47,922 All right, looking good. All right, looking good.
361 00:15:47,990 00:15:49,190 You know how to piss them off. You know how to piss them off.
362 00:15:49,258 00:15:50,358 - My special talent. - My special talent.
363 00:15:50,426 00:15:52,327 - [laughs] any of these screen names - [laughs] any of these screen names
364 00:15:52,395 00:15:54,129 Match the people who threatened Sid Maxwell? Match the people who threatened Sid Maxwell?
365 00:15:54,196 00:15:56,998 - Uh, yeah, one or two. Hit 'em again. - Uh, yeah, one or two. Hit 'em again.
366 00:15:57,099 00:16:02,637 - "you're cowards and you're stupid." - "you're cowards and you're stupid."
367 00:16:02,705 00:16:05,140 [laughter] [laughter]
368 00:16:05,207 00:16:09,277 - Okay, okay, we are matching, matching... - Okay, okay, we are matching, matching...
369 00:16:09,345 00:16:11,813 Tracing, tracing... Tracing, tracing...
370 00:16:17,620 00:16:21,156 - Wow. Oh, they hate you, b. - Wow. Oh, they hate you, b.
371 00:16:21,223 00:16:22,991 They really hate you. They really hate you.
372 00:16:23,058 00:16:26,161 - I see. - I see.
373 00:16:26,228 00:16:28,563 Wow. Wow.
374 00:16:28,631 00:16:30,231 - I was just blowing off steam. - I was just blowing off steam.
375 00:16:30,299 00:16:32,133 That's not against the law. - Hey. That's not against the law. - Hey.
376 00:16:32,201 00:16:33,468 "if he can't keep his hands on the wheel "if he can't keep his hands on the wheel
377 00:16:33,536 00:16:35,370 "and eyes on the road, maybe he ought to lose them. "and eyes on the road, maybe he ought to lose them.
378 00:16:35,438 00:16:37,338 Taliban justice." Taliban justice."
379 00:16:37,406 00:16:38,807 - It was a joke. - It was a joke.
380 00:16:38,874 00:16:42,043 - "this guy should be tied in the middle of fdr drive - "this guy should be tied in the middle of fdr drive
381 00:16:42,111 00:16:45,146 While texting drivers try to Dodge him," While texting drivers try to Dodge him,"
382 00:16:45,214 00:16:47,248 Says sly-avenger. Says sly-avenger.
383 00:16:47,316 00:16:48,650 That's you, right? That's you, right?
384 00:16:48,717 00:16:52,120 - Well, that's not what happened - Well, that's not what happened
385 00:16:52,188 00:16:55,457 To him, though, is it? To him, though, is it?
386 00:16:55,524 00:16:58,059 - I'm so embarrassed. - I'm so embarrassed.
387 00:16:58,127 00:17:01,729 Some of the things I wrote about that man, I-- Some of the things I wrote about that man, I--
388 00:17:01,797 00:17:03,832 My language was inappropriate. My language was inappropriate.
389 00:17:03,899 00:17:07,469 - Well, frankly, ms. Sands, you don't seem like the type. - Well, frankly, ms. Sands, you don't seem like the type.
390 00:17:07,536 00:17:10,605 - I know. It's just... - I know. It's just...
391 00:17:10,673 00:17:12,340 [exhales] [exhales]
392 00:17:12,408 00:17:15,310 Three years ago, my daughter was killed Three years ago, my daughter was killed
393 00:17:15,377 00:17:17,378 By a taxi driver who was texting. By a taxi driver who was texting.
394 00:17:17,446 00:17:18,947 - I'm so sorry. - I'm so sorry.
395 00:17:19,014 00:17:20,315 - They never caught him. - They never caught him.
396 00:17:20,382 00:17:24,419 And when I saw the photo of that man texting, And when I saw the photo of that man texting,
397 00:17:24,487 00:17:26,421 Not even looking at the road... Not even looking at the road...
398 00:17:26,489 00:17:30,925 Some other child could have been hurt. Some other child could have been hurt.
399 00:17:30,993 00:17:34,963 - Maybe I can look into what happened to your daughter. - Maybe I can look into what happened to your daughter.
400 00:17:35,030 00:17:37,799 - That would be... - That would be...
401 00:17:37,867 00:17:39,300 Thank you. Thank you.
402 00:17:39,368 00:17:41,369 - Someone hacked into the security system - Someone hacked into the security system
403 00:17:41,437 00:17:43,705 At Sid Maxwell's building the night he was killed. At Sid Maxwell's building the night he was killed.
404 00:17:43,772 00:17:47,675 You worked as a security systems engineer. You worked as a security systems engineer.
405 00:17:47,743 00:17:49,744 - So? - So?
406 00:17:49,812 00:17:51,679 - This is a photo of Maxwell's vandalized car, - This is a photo of Maxwell's vandalized car,
407 00:17:51,747 00:17:53,615 Uploaded from your I.P. Address. Uploaded from your I.P. Address.
408 00:17:53,682 00:17:55,717 If your prints are found in his apartment, If your prints are found in his apartment,
409 00:17:55,784 00:17:57,919 You're screwed. You're screwed.
410 00:17:57,987 00:18:00,388 - I'm screwed? - I'm screwed?
411 00:18:00,456 00:18:03,358 A, I didn't kill anybody. A, I didn't kill anybody.
412 00:18:03,425 00:18:06,394 B, it's not my social security number B, it's not my social security number
413 00:18:06,462 00:18:08,997 That got posted online this morning. That got posted online this morning.
414 00:18:12,034 00:18:15,703 - So I should be going. Is there anything else? - So I should be going. Is there anything else?
415 00:18:15,771 00:18:19,107 - No, no. We have your-- your name and your address. - No, no. We have your-- your name and your address.
416 00:18:19,174 00:18:21,009 - Thank you for your concern. - Thank you for your concern.
417 00:18:21,076 00:18:24,879 - Lieutenant, that information you requested... - Lieutenant, that information you requested...
418 00:18:28,717 00:18:32,020 - Ms. Sands, - Ms. Sands,
419 00:18:32,087 00:18:33,955 If you don't mind, If you don't mind,
420 00:18:34,023 00:18:37,325 Could you come back and sit for a minute? Could you come back and sit for a minute?
421 00:18:48,971 00:18:53,641 - We checked accident reports from three years ago, - We checked accident reports from three years ago,
422 00:18:53,709 00:18:56,744 And there was no report And there was no report
423 00:18:56,812 00:19:00,515 Involving a taxi and a child. Involving a taxi and a child.
424 00:19:00,583 00:19:02,016 - I saw it happen. - I saw it happen.
425 00:19:02,084 00:19:06,254 - And you do have a daughter, but she didn't die. - And you do have a daughter, but she didn't die.
426 00:19:06,322 00:19:08,690 Social services took her away from you Social services took her away from you
427 00:19:08,757 00:19:12,427 Because you offered her to a catholic church Because you offered her to a catholic church
428 00:19:12,494 00:19:14,729 As a human sacrifice. As a human sacrifice.
429 00:19:14,797 00:19:20,134 - I don't believe in human sacrifices. - I don't believe in human sacrifices.
430 00:19:20,202 00:19:21,469 - Ms. Sands, - Ms. Sands,
431 00:19:21,537 00:19:26,040 Were you at Mr. Maxwell's apartment Friday night? Were you at Mr. Maxwell's apartment Friday night?
432 00:19:26,108 00:19:29,043 - He was getting messages from the devil. - He was getting messages from the devil.
433 00:19:29,111 00:19:32,246 - Who was? Mr. Maxwell? - Who was? Mr. Maxwell?
434 00:19:32,314 00:19:33,948 - Not just him. - Not just him.
435 00:19:34,016 00:19:36,451 - He tells them whom to kill. - He tells them whom to kill.
436 00:19:37,620 00:19:40,321 - Uh... - Uh...
437 00:19:40,389 00:19:44,025 Who tells who whom to kill? Who tells who whom to kill?
438 00:19:44,093 00:19:46,928 Mr. Maxwell? The devil? Mr. Maxwell? The devil?
439 00:19:49,632 00:19:51,635 - May I please see a lawyer now? - May I please see a lawyer now?
440 00:20:00,836 00:20:02,003 - Ms. Sands has informed me - Ms. Sands has informed me
441 00:20:02,071 00:20:03,304 That she has nothing else to say at this time. That she has nothing else to say at this time.
442 00:20:03,372 00:20:05,840 - Except that people who get texts while they drive - Except that people who get texts while they drive
443 00:20:05,908 00:20:07,141 Are servants of the devil. Are servants of the devil.
444 00:20:07,209 00:20:08,409 - Except that. - Except that.
445 00:20:08,477 00:20:10,111 - She already mentioned - She already mentioned
446 00:20:10,179 00:20:12,747 That Sid Maxwell was one of those servants. That Sid Maxwell was one of those servants.
447 00:20:12,815 00:20:14,616 - So you say. I wasn't here. - So you say. I wasn't here.
448 00:20:14,683 00:20:18,319 - Do you want to add anything else, ms. Sands? - Do you want to add anything else, ms. Sands?
449 00:20:18,387 00:20:20,655 - That man was evil. - That man was evil.
450 00:20:20,723 00:20:23,958 If you don't know that, you shouldn't be a policeman. If you don't know that, you shouldn't be a policeman.
451 00:20:24,026 00:20:26,261 - Crazy enough for you? - Crazy enough for you?
452 00:20:26,328 00:20:27,595 - Oh, yeah. - Oh, yeah.
453 00:20:27,663 00:20:30,231 Do you have any evidence against her for the murder? Do you have any evidence against her for the murder?
454 00:20:30,299 00:20:33,201 - So far, just her rants against Maxwell on the website. - So far, just her rants against Maxwell on the website.
455 00:20:33,269 00:20:36,804 - Well, that and this--it's enough for a search warrant. - Well, that and this--it's enough for a search warrant.
456 00:20:40,342 00:20:42,944 - Wow. - Wow.
457 00:20:43,012 00:20:47,148 - Texting while driving... Texting while driving... - Texting while driving... Texting while driving...
458 00:20:47,216 00:20:50,585 Todd bissell... Todd bissell... Todd bissell... Todd bissell...
459 00:20:52,121 00:20:54,455 - This must be Kerry sands' daughter, - This must be Kerry sands' daughter,
460 00:20:54,523 00:20:56,057 The one who isn't actually dead. The one who isn't actually dead.
461 00:20:56,125 00:20:58,126 - Ah, yeah, the state takes her daughter away - Ah, yeah, the state takes her daughter away
462 00:20:58,193 00:21:01,162 And she can't deal with it, and she comes up with this? And she can't deal with it, and she comes up with this?
463 00:21:01,230 00:21:03,331 I don't see the connection. I don't see the connection.
464 00:21:03,399 00:21:04,866 - Hey, check it out. - Hey, check it out.
465 00:21:04,933 00:21:06,634 That's the girl from the photo session That's the girl from the photo session
466 00:21:06,702 00:21:08,836 The night bissell a.K.A. Maxwell was killed. The night bissell a.K.A. Maxwell was killed.
467 00:21:08,904 00:21:10,605 Looks like ms. Sands took a souvenir. Looks like ms. Sands took a souvenir.
468 00:21:10,673 00:21:11,806 - That would put her on the scene, - That would put her on the scene,
469 00:21:11,874 00:21:12,874 But how did she get in the building? But how did she get in the building?
470 00:21:12,941 00:21:15,310 - 8-4-2-6. - 8-4-2-6.
471 00:21:15,377 00:21:16,611 That's the entry Code, That's the entry Code,
472 00:21:16,679 00:21:19,447 Right next to a picture of the keypad. Right next to a picture of the keypad.
473 00:21:19,515 00:21:21,282 - And that's Maxwell's apartment door, propped open. - And that's Maxwell's apartment door, propped open.
474 00:21:21,350 00:21:23,851 Looks like a security camera still. Looks like a security camera still.
475 00:21:23,919 00:21:26,654 - Yeah, a camera that mysteriously went dark. - Yeah, a camera that mysteriously went dark.
476 00:21:26,722 00:21:28,723 - She was the one who hacked into the security system? - She was the one who hacked into the security system?
477 00:21:28,791 00:21:32,393 - No. The header says flashposse.Net, - No. The header says flashposse.Net,
478 00:21:32,461 00:21:36,097 Her friendly neighborhood social justice website. Her friendly neighborhood social justice website.
479 00:21:36,165 00:21:39,067 - There's no time or date on this. - There's no time or date on this.
480 00:21:39,134 00:21:40,435 If she got this stuff the night of the murder, If she got this stuff the night of the murder,
481 00:21:40,502 00:21:41,836 That would nail things down. That would nail things down.
482 00:21:41,904 00:21:44,238 - The flashposse computer would show when they were posted. - The flashposse computer would show when they were posted.
483 00:21:44,306 00:21:48,309 - Hey, can we go find out with a warrant, please? - Hey, can we go find out with a warrant, please?
484 00:21:48,377 00:21:49,310 - I'm calling my lawyer. - I'm calling my lawyer.
485 00:21:49,378 00:21:50,545 - Yeah, when you do, - Yeah, when you do,
486 00:21:50,612 00:21:51,746 Tell him "the cop bully" is here Tell him "the cop bully" is here
487 00:21:51,814 00:21:53,381 With a search warrant this time. With a search warrant this time.
488 00:21:53,449 00:21:54,816 - Hey, you can't take that. - Hey, you can't take that.
489 00:21:54,883 00:21:55,983 - You'll get it back. - You'll get it back.
490 00:21:56,051 00:21:57,185 - There's some more gear back here. - There's some more gear back here.
491 00:21:57,252 00:21:58,219 Anything else you want me to take? Anything else you want me to take?
492 00:21:58,287 00:21:59,687 - Ah, let me check. - Ah, let me check.
493 00:21:59,755 00:22:01,322 - This is harassment. - No. - This is harassment. - No.
494 00:22:01,390 00:22:03,925 Calling my cell phone and telling me I'm a Nazi, Calling my cell phone and telling me I'm a Nazi,
495 00:22:03,992 00:22:04,926 That's harassment. That's harassment.
496 00:22:04,993 00:22:05,927 - Oh, is that what this is about? - Oh, is that what this is about?
497 00:22:05,994 00:22:07,195 You can't stand a little heat? You can't stand a little heat?
498 00:22:07,262 00:22:08,529 - Look, I'm doing my job. - Look, I'm doing my job.
499 00:22:08,597 00:22:10,765 This is about a murder and a woman named Kerry sands. This is about a murder and a woman named Kerry sands.
500 00:22:10,833 00:22:12,033 Do you know her? Do you know her?
501 00:22:12,101 00:22:14,469 - The woman whose kid wasn't killed by a taxi? - The woman whose kid wasn't killed by a taxi?
502 00:22:14,536 00:22:16,003 Yeah. We're open to the public. Yeah. We're open to the public.
503 00:22:16,071 00:22:17,071 We take all comers. We take all comers.
504 00:22:17,139 00:22:18,873 - That's it. You ready to go? - That's it. You ready to go?
505 00:22:18,941 00:22:19,874 - Yeah. - Yeah.
506 00:22:19,942 00:22:21,442 - Oh. - Oh.
507 00:22:21,510 00:22:23,211 - Bye. - Bye.
508 00:22:23,278 00:22:24,712 - Here's the full dump of material - Here's the full dump of material
509 00:22:24,780 00:22:27,181 From the Sid Maxwell section of flashposse.Net. From the Sid Maxwell section of flashposse.Net.
510 00:22:27,249 00:22:29,684 - Yeah, the good stuff was in a password-protected area - Yeah, the good stuff was in a password-protected area
511 00:22:29,752 00:22:33,254 For people who had a special interest in Mr. Maxwell. For people who had a special interest in Mr. Maxwell.
512 00:22:33,322 00:22:34,522 - The Code to his building's front door? - The Code to his building's front door?
513 00:22:34,590 00:22:38,126 - Right, just in case somebody wanted to drop by. - Right, just in case somebody wanted to drop by.
514 00:22:38,193 00:22:41,429 Ms. Sands accessed this photo just after midnight. Ms. Sands accessed this photo just after midnight.
515 00:22:41,497 00:22:42,630 A few minutes later, A few minutes later,
516 00:22:42,698 00:22:44,866 She takes a car service to Maxwell's apartment. She takes a car service to Maxwell's apartment.
517 00:22:44,933 00:22:46,567 - Do you have the driver? - Mm-hmm. - Do you have the driver? - Mm-hmm.
518 00:22:46,635 00:22:47,702 He remembers her pretty well. He remembers her pretty well.
519 00:22:47,770 00:22:49,537 She told him she doesn't take taxis She told him she doesn't take taxis
520 00:22:49,605 00:22:51,239 Because of their link to the devil. Because of their link to the devil.
521 00:22:51,306 00:22:52,540 - Hmm. - Hmm.
522 00:22:52,608 00:22:54,842 Arrest her for murder, and I will apply with the court Arrest her for murder, and I will apply with the court
523 00:22:54,910 00:22:57,211 For a 7:30 exam. For a 7:30 exam.
524 00:22:59,481 00:23:01,682 - I found the police report you filed - I found the police report you filed
525 00:23:01,750 00:23:04,419 About the taxi striking your daughter. About the taxi striking your daughter.
526 00:23:04,486 00:23:06,087 - The police didn't do anything. - The police didn't do anything.
527 00:23:06,155 00:23:07,488 They wouldn't do anything. They wouldn't do anything.
528 00:23:07,556 00:23:10,057 - The report says they investigated. - The report says they investigated.
529 00:23:10,125 00:23:14,162 The taxi hit a garbage can. Nobody was injured. The taxi hit a garbage can. Nobody was injured.
530 00:23:14,229 00:23:16,464 Why would it say that? Why would it say that?
531 00:23:16,532 00:23:20,368 - [sighs] - [sighs]
532 00:23:20,436 00:23:25,973 Do I have to explain everything to you? Do I have to explain everything to you?
533 00:23:26,041 00:23:27,675 - Do you mind? - Do you mind?
534 00:23:27,743 00:23:30,411 - Oh, I don't know. - Oh, I don't know.
535 00:23:30,479 00:23:32,647 Will you help me? Will you help me?
536 00:23:32,714 00:23:34,148 - Help you do what? - Help you do what?
537 00:23:34,216 00:23:36,451 - Stop the killing. - Stop the killing.
538 00:23:36,518 00:23:39,387 Stop the evil. Stop the evil.
539 00:23:39,455 00:23:42,023 - Like Sid Maxwell? - Like Sid Maxwell?
540 00:23:42,090 00:23:43,891 Was he evil? Was he evil?
541 00:23:43,959 00:23:47,895 - He got a message when he was driving. - He got a message when he was driving.
542 00:23:47,963 00:23:49,964 That's when they send the messages. That's when they send the messages.
543 00:23:50,032 00:23:51,966 They think no one can see. They think no one can see.
544 00:23:52,034 00:23:54,469 - What do the messages say? - What do the messages say?
545 00:23:54,536 00:23:55,870 - Whom to kill. - Whom to kill.
546 00:23:55,938 00:23:58,873 - So Sid Maxwell was going to kill someone? - So Sid Maxwell was going to kill someone?
547 00:23:58,941 00:24:01,676 - Isn't that why we're here? - Isn't that why we're here?
548 00:24:01,743 00:24:03,578 - And you were supposed to do something about that? - And you were supposed to do something about that?
549 00:24:03,645 00:24:05,646 - There was no point calling the police. - There was no point calling the police.
550 00:24:05,714 00:24:07,949 That report proves that. That report proves that.
551 00:24:08,016 00:24:12,220 No, I had to take care of that man myself. No, I had to take care of that man myself.
552 00:24:12,287 00:24:14,856 So I did. So I did.
553 00:24:14,923 00:24:17,091 - She's a pretty well-managed schizophrenic. - She's a pretty well-managed schizophrenic.
554 00:24:17,159 00:24:19,227 It's not immediately obvious. It's not immediately obvious.
555 00:24:19,294 00:24:21,863 - Unless you start talking about texting while driving? - Unless you start talking about texting while driving?
556 00:24:21,930 00:24:23,764 - Or about the devil. - Or about the devil.
557 00:24:23,832 00:24:25,833 He sends messages to his servants He sends messages to his servants
558 00:24:25,901 00:24:27,201 While they're in their cars, While they're in their cars,
559 00:24:27,269 00:24:29,670 Telling them which pure-hearted people to kill. Telling them which pure-hearted people to kill.
560 00:24:29,738 00:24:32,306 - But she tried to have her own daughter killed - But she tried to have her own daughter killed
561 00:24:32,374 00:24:34,775 By human sacrifice. By human sacrifice.
562 00:24:34,843 00:24:36,244 - For purification. - For purification.
563 00:24:36,311 00:24:38,312 Her delusion was a little different then. Her delusion was a little different then.
564 00:24:38,380 00:24:40,448 When the state took her daughter away, When the state took her daughter away,
565 00:24:40,516 00:24:41,983 It rattled her reality. It rattled her reality.
566 00:24:42,050 00:24:43,217 That same day, That same day,
567 00:24:43,285 00:24:46,087 She saw a taxi driver plow into a garbage can. She saw a taxi driver plow into a garbage can.
568 00:24:46,154 00:24:48,189 The garbage can became her daughter. The garbage can became her daughter.
569 00:24:48,257 00:24:50,691 The taxi driver became evil. The taxi driver became evil.
570 00:24:50,759 00:24:52,894 Suddenly everything made sense. Suddenly everything made sense.
571 00:24:52,961 00:24:54,428 - Perfectly. - Perfectly.
572 00:24:54,496 00:24:56,097 - Is ms. Sands competent to stand trial? - Is ms. Sands competent to stand trial?
573 00:24:56,164 00:24:59,300 - No, and if she ever is, the verdict will be - No, and if she ever is, the verdict will be
574 00:24:59,368 00:25:03,104 "not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect." "not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect."
575 00:25:03,171 00:25:05,406 She needs to be locked up, for everybody's good. She needs to be locked up, for everybody's good.
576 00:25:05,474 00:25:08,142 - Call judge hiram and the woman's attorney. - Call judge hiram and the woman's attorney.
577 00:25:08,210 00:25:10,745 Work out a plan for institutionalization. Work out a plan for institutionalization.
578 00:25:10,812 00:25:12,380 Thank you, doctor. Thank you, doctor.
579 00:25:13,782 00:25:16,017 - I'll book some time in the grand jury. - I'll book some time in the grand jury.
580 00:25:16,084 00:25:17,818 - What for? The woman's insane. - What for? The woman's insane.
581 00:25:17,886 00:25:21,789 - Not for her. Did you see the file on flashposse.Net? - Not for her. Did you see the file on flashposse.Net?
582 00:25:21,857 00:25:23,190 - That place on the world wide web? - That place on the world wide web?
583 00:25:23,258 00:25:25,293 - Actually, they don't call it that anymore. - Actually, they don't call it that anymore.
584 00:25:25,360 00:25:27,962 - Excuse me, should I have said "wireless telegraph"? - Excuse me, should I have said "wireless telegraph"?
585 00:25:28,030 00:25:32,033 - Flashposse whipped up a frenzy against Sid Maxwell. - Flashposse whipped up a frenzy against Sid Maxwell.
586 00:25:32,100 00:25:33,968 It was a virtual Lynch mob. It was a virtual Lynch mob.
587 00:25:34,036 00:25:37,772 - A Lynch mob sitting at computers, typing things? - A Lynch mob sitting at computers, typing things?
588 00:25:37,839 00:25:39,774 - Yeah, things like "this guy ought to be killed" - Yeah, things like "this guy ought to be killed"
589 00:25:39,841 00:25:41,475 And "here's how to get into his apartment." And "here's how to get into his apartment."
590 00:25:41,543 00:25:43,477 All delivered into the hands of a crazy woman. All delivered into the hands of a crazy woman.
591 00:25:43,545 00:25:44,679 - "a person is guilty of murder - "a person is guilty of murder
592 00:25:44,746 00:25:46,547 "when they recklessly engage in conduct "when they recklessly engage in conduct
593 00:25:46,615 00:25:49,183 "which creates a grave risk of death to another person, "which creates a grave risk of death to another person,
594 00:25:49,251 00:25:52,119 And thereby causes the death of another person." And thereby causes the death of another person."
595 00:25:52,187 00:25:54,188 - I know the law. - The shoe fits, Jack. - I know the law. - The shoe fits, Jack.
596 00:25:54,256 00:25:57,625 Kerry sands was the bullet; the website was the gun. Kerry sands was the bullet; the website was the gun.
597 00:25:57,693 00:26:00,027 - You really want to do this? - You really want to do this?
598 00:26:00,095 00:26:03,197 You'll be pushing the limits, trying to make new law. You'll be pushing the limits, trying to make new law.
599 00:26:03,265 00:26:05,533 - Like you did with gun manufacturers - Like you did with gun manufacturers
600 00:26:05,601 00:26:10,404 And justice department torture memo writers? And justice department torture memo writers?
601 00:26:10,472 00:26:12,573 - So these flashposse people, - So these flashposse people,
602 00:26:12,641 00:26:15,343 Whom exactly are you planning to indict? Whom exactly are you planning to indict?
603 00:26:15,410 00:26:17,578 - All of them. - All of them.
604 00:26:20,916 00:26:24,552 - All of these people are parties to this motion? - All of these people are parties to this motion?
605 00:26:24,620 00:26:25,920 - Not by choice, your honor. - Not by choice, your honor.
606 00:26:25,988 00:26:27,288 For some strange reason, the district attorney For some strange reason, the district attorney
607 00:26:27,356 00:26:29,390 Has chosen to indict half of New York city Has chosen to indict half of New York city
608 00:26:29,458 00:26:30,858 For the murder of Sid Maxwell. For the murder of Sid Maxwell.
609 00:26:30,926 00:26:32,526 - Only because they all helped kill him. - Only because they all helped kill him.
610 00:26:32,594 00:26:33,961 - It's preposterous. - It's preposterous.
611 00:26:34,029 00:26:36,230 A schizophrenic named Kerry sands murdered Sid Maxwell, A schizophrenic named Kerry sands murdered Sid Maxwell,
612 00:26:36,298 00:26:37,665 As the state freely acknowledges. As the state freely acknowledges.
613 00:26:37,733 00:26:39,100 These people did nothing but post comments These people did nothing but post comments
614 00:26:39,167 00:26:41,035 On a website that ms. Sands occasionally visited. On a website that ms. Sands occasionally visited.
615 00:26:41,103 00:26:42,670 - Is that true, Mr. Cutter? - Is that true, Mr. Cutter?
616 00:26:42,738 00:26:45,206 - "post comments" is an understatement. - "post comments" is an understatement.
617 00:26:45,273 00:26:47,341 They encouraged ms. Sands They encouraged ms. Sands
618 00:26:47,409 00:26:49,810 To commit violence against Mr. Maxwell. To commit violence against Mr. Maxwell.
619 00:26:49,878 00:26:52,113 - If I yell "kill the umpire" and some psychotic does it, - If I yell "kill the umpire" and some psychotic does it,
620 00:26:52,180 00:26:53,214 I'm not guilty of murder. I'm not guilty of murder.
621 00:26:53,281 00:26:55,182 - The website went beyond exhortations - The website went beyond exhortations
622 00:26:55,250 00:26:56,684 To kill Mr. Maxwell. To kill Mr. Maxwell.
623 00:26:56,752 00:26:59,153 It gave instructions on how to do it. It gave instructions on how to do it.
624 00:26:59,221 00:27:03,324 Some of its members took actions that enabled ms. Sands Some of its members took actions that enabled ms. Sands
625 00:27:03,392 00:27:06,227 To enter and leave his apartment undetected. To enter and leave his apartment undetected.
626 00:27:06,294 00:27:08,429 - What are we talking about here, - What are we talking about here,
627 00:27:08,497 00:27:09,897 Exhortations or actions? Exhortations or actions?
628 00:27:09,965 00:27:13,234 - In this case, your honor, it's a pretty fine line. - In this case, your honor, it's a pretty fine line.
629 00:27:13,301 00:27:15,002 - Not to me. - Not to me.
630 00:27:15,070 00:27:17,905 Any comment about Mr. Maxwell, even negative ones, Any comment about Mr. Maxwell, even negative ones,
631 00:27:17,973 00:27:19,674 Are protected speech and may not be used Are protected speech and may not be used
632 00:27:19,741 00:27:21,942 In any way in your prosecution. In any way in your prosecution.
633 00:27:22,010 00:27:24,011 - There is the first amendment exception - There is the first amendment exception
634 00:27:24,079 00:27:26,580 About shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. About shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.
635 00:27:26,648 00:27:29,583 - Were any of these people in physical proximity - Were any of these people in physical proximity
636 00:27:29,651 00:27:31,118 To ms. Sands or the victim? To ms. Sands or the victim?
637 00:27:31,186 00:27:32,953 - No. - No.
638 00:27:33,021 00:27:34,622 - Then the theater wasn't crowded. - Then the theater wasn't crowded.
639 00:27:34,690 00:27:37,291 You are free to proceed in accordance with my ruling, You are free to proceed in accordance with my ruling,
640 00:27:37,359 00:27:39,660 If you still have a case. If you still have a case.
641 00:27:44,232 00:27:47,067 - Do we? - We'd better. - Do we? - We'd better.
642 00:27:47,135 00:27:49,970 If we don't stop them now, who's next? If we don't stop them now, who's next?
643 00:27:55,509 00:27:57,243 - You're lucky the judge didn't throw your case out entirely. - You're lucky the judge didn't throw your case out entirely.
644 00:27:57,311 00:27:58,878 - She's living in the 20th century. - She's living in the 20th century.
645 00:27:58,946 00:28:01,548 Words on the internet have consequences. Words on the internet have consequences.
646 00:28:01,615 00:28:04,317 - Actually, she's living in the 18th century, - Actually, she's living in the 18th century,
647 00:28:04,385 00:28:05,852 When the bill of rights was written, When the bill of rights was written,
648 00:28:05,920 00:28:07,954 Which, on balance, is a good thing. Which, on balance, is a good thing.
649 00:28:08,022 00:28:10,123 - Well, if it weren't for what people on that website - Well, if it weren't for what people on that website
650 00:28:10,191 00:28:11,424 Said and did, Said and did,
651 00:28:11,492 00:28:14,160 Kerry sands would have never murdered Sid Maxwell. Kerry sands would have never murdered Sid Maxwell.
652 00:28:14,228 00:28:16,429 - Yes, but now you'll have to forget about the "said." - Yes, but now you'll have to forget about the "said."
653 00:28:16,497 00:28:18,998 - I'm dropping the charges against the cheerleaders, - I'm dropping the charges against the cheerleaders,
654 00:28:19,066 00:28:21,534 But I'm still moving against the guy who ran the site But I'm still moving against the guy who ran the site
655 00:28:21,602 00:28:24,137 And the people who sent out the photos and the door Code. And the people who sent out the photos and the door Code.
656 00:28:24,205 00:28:26,840 - They'll say they were only encouraging people - They'll say they were only encouraging people
657 00:28:26,907 00:28:28,608 To send Maxwell a message, To send Maxwell a message,
658 00:28:28,676 00:28:30,844 That they never intended for him to be killed. That they never intended for him to be killed.
659 00:28:30,911 00:28:33,980 - They were dealing with a crazy woman. - They were dealing with a crazy woman.
660 00:28:34,048 00:28:36,649 They didn't have to intend for her to kill him. They didn't have to intend for her to kill him.
661 00:28:36,717 00:28:38,585 If they recklessly disregarded If they recklessly disregarded
662 00:28:38,652 00:28:42,689 The likelihood that it would happen, they're guilty. The likelihood that it would happen, they're guilty.
663 00:28:42,756 00:28:44,858 - Good luck. - Good luck.
664 00:28:48,629 00:28:51,464 - "thank you for sharing the information - "thank you for sharing the information
665 00:28:51,532 00:28:54,434 About this accomplice of the devil." About this accomplice of the devil."
666 00:28:54,501 00:28:57,503 That was one of the messages posted by Kerry sands That was one of the messages posted by Kerry sands
667 00:28:57,571 00:29:00,373 On the Sid Maxwell section of the website. On the Sid Maxwell section of the website.
668 00:29:00,441 00:29:02,008 - And how many messages - And how many messages
669 00:29:02,076 00:29:04,477 Did ms. Sands post there altogether? Did ms. Sands post there altogether?
670 00:29:04,545 00:29:06,079 - More than 400. - More than 400.
671 00:29:06,146 00:29:08,615 - And who posted the second largest amount - And who posted the second largest amount
672 00:29:08,682 00:29:09,883 Of messages there? Of messages there?
673 00:29:09,950 00:29:12,218 - Someone with the screen name kewpie-doll. - Someone with the screen name kewpie-doll.
674 00:29:12,286 00:29:14,187 She posted 22. She posted 22.
675 00:29:14,255 00:29:17,857 - 22 versus 400. - 22 versus 400.
676 00:29:17,925 00:29:21,995 Now did ms. Sands' messages stand out in any other way? Now did ms. Sands' messages stand out in any other way?
677 00:29:22,062 00:29:23,863 - No one else mentioned Satan. - No one else mentioned Satan.
678 00:29:23,931 00:29:27,033 No one else mentioned that god's angels No one else mentioned that god's angels
679 00:29:27,101 00:29:29,769 Would take vengeance on Mr. Maxwell Would take vengeance on Mr. Maxwell
680 00:29:29,837 00:29:32,939 And dance in his evil blood. And dance in his evil blood.
681 00:29:33,007 00:29:35,375 - Would you characterize her messages as sane? - Would you characterize her messages as sane?
682 00:29:35,442 00:29:37,744 - Objection. The witness is a psychiatrist. - Objection. The witness is a psychiatrist.
683 00:29:37,811 00:29:38,912 Her judgment isn't the same Her judgment isn't the same
684 00:29:38,979 00:29:40,313 As that of a layperson reading those messages. As that of a layperson reading those messages.
685 00:29:40,381 00:29:42,348 - I'll sustain that. - I'll sustain that.
686 00:29:42,416 00:29:47,320 - Dr. Olivet, please read some more of ms. Sands' postings. - Dr. Olivet, please read some more of ms. Sands' postings.
687 00:29:47,388 00:29:49,322 - "god's angels will sing in heaven - "god's angels will sing in heaven
688 00:29:49,390 00:29:51,925 "when this man gets his just reward. "when this man gets his just reward.
689 00:29:51,992 00:29:54,460 "death shall be answered with death, "death shall be answered with death,
690 00:29:54,528 00:29:56,729 The lord commands us." The lord commands us."
691 00:29:56,797 00:30:01,935 - "death shall be answered with death." - "death shall be answered with death."
692 00:30:05,239 00:30:06,706 - Pursuant to a search warrant, - Pursuant to a search warrant,
693 00:30:06,774 00:30:09,976 We seized a computer server from the residence of Mr. Leary We seized a computer server from the residence of Mr. Leary
694 00:30:10,044 00:30:12,345 And turned it over to our computer crimes squad. And turned it over to our computer crimes squad.
695 00:30:12,413 00:30:14,681 - And what did that squad determine? - And what did that squad determine?
696 00:30:14,748 00:30:16,883 - That Mr. Keegan had hacked into - That Mr. Keegan had hacked into
697 00:30:16,951 00:30:18,751 And manipulated the security cameras And manipulated the security cameras
698 00:30:18,819 00:30:20,453 At Mr. Maxwell's apartment building, At Mr. Maxwell's apartment building,
699 00:30:20,521 00:30:23,756 And Mr. Mason cracked and posted the Code And Mr. Mason cracked and posted the Code
700 00:30:23,824 00:30:26,059 To the front door of his building, To the front door of his building,
701 00:30:26,126 00:30:28,962 While ms. Sands obtained that information from the website While ms. Sands obtained that information from the website
702 00:30:29,029 00:30:31,531 Less than an hour before she murdered Mr. Maxwell. Less than an hour before she murdered Mr. Maxwell.
703 00:30:31,598 00:30:32,899 - Was there any sign - Was there any sign
704 00:30:32,967 00:30:35,902 The defendants attempted to limit ms. Sands' access The defendants attempted to limit ms. Sands' access
705 00:30:35,970 00:30:37,570 To that kind of information To that kind of information
706 00:30:37,638 00:30:41,808 After they saw her hundreds of messages on the website After they saw her hundreds of messages on the website
707 00:30:41,875 00:30:44,944 About the devil and angels About the devil and angels
708 00:30:45,012 00:30:46,879 And death and doom and blood? And death and doom and blood?
709 00:30:46,947 00:30:47,947 - No. - No.
710 00:30:48,015 00:30:50,049 In fact, Mr. Leary made a point In fact, Mr. Leary made a point
711 00:30:50,117 00:30:52,118 Of sending private e-mails to ms. Sands, Of sending private e-mails to ms. Sands,
712 00:30:52,186 00:30:54,821 Alerting her whenever new information was posted. Alerting her whenever new information was posted.
713 00:30:54,888 00:30:57,156 - Really? - Really?
714 00:30:57,224 00:30:58,758 To your knowledge, detective, To your knowledge, detective,
715 00:30:58,826 00:31:02,128 Was Mr. Leary aware of ms. Sands' delusional condition? Was Mr. Leary aware of ms. Sands' delusional condition?
716 00:31:02,196 00:31:03,129 - Yes. - Yes.
717 00:31:03,197 00:31:05,164 When we executed the warrant, When we executed the warrant,
718 00:31:05,232 00:31:08,568 I asked him if he knew ms. Sands, and he said, I asked him if he knew ms. Sands, and he said,
719 00:31:08,635 00:31:13,139 "the lady whose kid wasn't killed by a taxi? Yeah." "the lady whose kid wasn't killed by a taxi? Yeah."
720 00:31:13,207 00:31:16,342 - So he knew she was delusional? - So he knew she was delusional?
721 00:31:16,410 00:31:19,012 - That's what he said, yes. - That's what he said, yes.
722 00:31:19,079 00:31:21,114 - Thank you. - Thank you.
723 00:31:25,586 00:31:27,487 - You don't like Mr. Leary, do you? - You don't like Mr. Leary, do you?
724 00:31:27,554 00:31:30,990 - I don't like him or not like him. - I don't like him or not like him.
725 00:31:31,058 00:31:33,026 - But when he objected to your investigation of his website, - But when he objected to your investigation of his website,
726 00:31:33,093 00:31:34,627 Didn't he organize people to call you Didn't he organize people to call you
727 00:31:34,695 00:31:38,731 And accuse you of being fat and a Nazi? And accuse you of being fat and a Nazi?
728 00:31:38,799 00:31:40,900 - Those people never said who told them to call. - Those people never said who told them to call.
729 00:31:40,968 00:31:42,402 - Oh, so you didn't know that your phone number - Oh, so you didn't know that your phone number
730 00:31:42,469 00:31:44,037 Was listed on Mr. Leary's website? Was listed on Mr. Leary's website?
731 00:31:44,104 00:31:45,972 - I knew. - I knew.
732 00:31:46,040 00:31:48,441 - When you served the warrant for his computers, - When you served the warrant for his computers,
733 00:31:48,509 00:31:50,376 Didn't you complain that he had been harassing you? Didn't you complain that he had been harassing you?
734 00:31:50,444 00:31:52,211 - I might have mentioned that. - I might have mentioned that.
735 00:31:52,279 00:31:54,280 - Did you or didn't you accuse him of harassing you? - Did you or didn't you accuse him of harassing you?
736 00:31:54,348 00:31:56,482 - I did. And he was. - I did. And he was.
737 00:31:56,550 00:31:58,418 - So now you're telling us that this man, - So now you're telling us that this man,
738 00:31:58,485 00:32:01,587 Who was harassing you, told you and only you Who was harassing you, told you and only you
739 00:32:01,655 00:32:03,990 That he knew that ms. Sands was delusional. That he knew that ms. Sands was delusional.
740 00:32:04,058 00:32:05,892 - Yes. - Yes.
741 00:32:05,959 00:32:07,460 - Aren't you making that up 'cause it makes him look - Aren't you making that up 'cause it makes him look
742 00:32:07,528 00:32:08,761 Like he was guilty of something? Like he was guilty of something?
743 00:32:08,829 00:32:10,096 - No. - No.
744 00:32:10,164 00:32:11,597 - 'cause you want to get back at the man - 'cause you want to get back at the man
745 00:32:11,665 00:32:12,799 Who was harassing you? Who was harassing you?
746 00:32:12,866 00:32:14,000 - No. - No.
747 00:32:14,068 00:32:15,668 - You're not lying? - You're not lying?
748 00:32:15,736 00:32:16,669 - No. - No.
749 00:32:16,737 00:32:19,305 - Really? - Really?
750 00:32:23,811 00:32:26,645 Detective Bernard, can you tell us who's in this picture? Detective Bernard, can you tell us who's in this picture?
751 00:32:26,702 00:32:28,603 I have a copy for the district attorney. I have a copy for the district attorney.
752 00:32:40,083 00:32:41,550 - Where did you get this? - Where did you get this?
753 00:32:41,617 00:32:43,585 - Online, posted by a classmate of yours - Online, posted by a classmate of yours
754 00:32:43,653 00:32:44,753 From the police academy From the police academy
755 00:32:44,821 00:32:47,289 At some kind of graduation celebration. At some kind of graduation celebration.
756 00:32:47,356 00:32:48,457 That is you in the picture, isn't it? That is you in the picture, isn't it?
757 00:32:48,524 00:32:50,025 - Objection. What is the relevance of this? - Objection. What is the relevance of this?
758 00:32:50,093 00:32:51,560 - It goes to the credibility of this witness, - It goes to the credibility of this witness,
759 00:32:51,627 00:32:53,095 Which will become apparent very soon. Which will become apparent very soon.
760 00:32:53,162 00:32:54,429 - It had better. - It had better.
761 00:32:54,497 00:32:55,997 Proceed. Proceed.
762 00:32:56,065 00:32:57,232 - Thank you. - Thank you.
763 00:32:57,300 00:33:01,236 Detective, who is the young woman in the picture? Detective, who is the young woman in the picture?
764 00:33:01,304 00:33:03,472 - Her name is Rosemary. - Her name is Rosemary.
765 00:33:03,539 00:33:05,440 - Rosemary Franklin. Is that correct? - Rosemary Franklin. Is that correct?
766 00:33:05,508 00:33:07,042 - Yes. - Yes.
767 00:33:07,110 00:33:09,978 - Did you and she have a child together? - Did you and she have a child together?
768 00:33:16,452 00:33:17,719 - Yes. - Yes.
769 00:33:17,787 00:33:21,089 - And did you sign a child support agreement with her - And did you sign a child support agreement with her
770 00:33:21,157 00:33:22,357 Before the baby was born? Before the baby was born?
771 00:33:22,425 00:33:24,226 - Well, you know everything. Why ask me? - Well, you know everything. Why ask me?
772 00:33:24,293 00:33:25,894 - Your honor. - Your honor.
773 00:33:30,766 00:33:32,134 - Yes. - Yes.
774 00:33:32,201 00:33:35,070 - Did you sign an agreement promising to pay ms. Franklin - Did you sign an agreement promising to pay ms. Franklin
775 00:33:35,138 00:33:38,073 $500 a month to support that child? $500 a month to support that child?
776 00:33:38,141 00:33:40,442 And did you fail to send that money three times And did you fail to send that money three times
777 00:33:40,510 00:33:41,476 In the first six months? In the first six months?
778 00:33:41,544 00:33:43,645 - There was a question about paternity. - There was a question about paternity.
779 00:33:43,713 00:33:46,081 - Did you promise to pay and then fail to do so? - Did you promise to pay and then fail to do so?
780 00:33:49,752 00:33:51,119 - If you lied to the mother of your child - If you lied to the mother of your child
781 00:33:51,187 00:33:53,421 About supporting your son, About supporting your son,
782 00:33:53,489 00:33:56,191 Why should we believe anything you say to us now? Why should we believe anything you say to us now?
783 00:34:05,134 00:34:06,902 - You couldn't do something to stop that? - You couldn't do something to stop that?
784 00:34:06,969 00:34:08,937 - No. No, I couldn't. - Hey, you have a kid? - No. No, I couldn't. - Hey, you have a kid?
785 00:34:09,005 00:34:11,106 - Look, I'd just finished the academy, all right? - Look, I'd just finished the academy, all right?
786 00:34:11,174 00:34:12,307 I busted loose a little. I busted loose a little.
787 00:34:12,375 00:34:13,842 There were some cop groupies at a bar. There were some cop groupies at a bar.
788 00:34:13,910 00:34:16,411 Once the blood test came back, I paid every month. Once the blood test came back, I paid every month.
789 00:34:16,479 00:34:18,547 - Look, we'll bring that out on redirect. - Look, we'll bring that out on redirect.
790 00:34:18,614 00:34:19,648 We have to recoup. We have to recoup.
791 00:34:19,715 00:34:22,417 - Look, I don't want to talk about it! - Look, I don't want to talk about it!
792 00:34:22,485 00:34:25,687 Hey. Hey! - B! Hey. Hey! - B!
793 00:34:25,755 00:34:27,889 - How much trash did your people have to sort through - How much trash did your people have to sort through
794 00:34:27,957 00:34:29,024 To dig this up? To dig this up?
795 00:34:29,091 00:34:31,092 - The photo, the agreement, the violations, - The photo, the agreement, the violations,
796 00:34:31,160 00:34:32,761 It's all on the internet. You just gotta know how to look. It's all on the internet. You just gotta know how to look.
797 00:34:32,828 00:34:34,796 - Yeah, so this is how you defend yourself, huh? - Yeah, so this is how you defend yourself, huh?
798 00:34:34,864 00:34:36,298 Dragging people through the mud? Dragging people through the mud?
799 00:34:36,365 00:34:38,533 He's a ten-year-old boy. - All right, come on, b. He's a ten-year-old boy. - All right, come on, b.
800 00:34:38,601 00:34:40,202 - No, no, no, no, no, no! You want to play dirty, huh? - No, no, no, no, no, no! You want to play dirty, huh?
801 00:34:40,269 00:34:41,803 Huh? You want to get personal? Huh? You want to get personal?
802 00:34:41,871 00:34:43,104 - Detective! - Detective!
803 00:34:55,885 00:34:58,153 - That didn't help. - What do you expect? - That didn't help. - What do you expect?
804 00:34:58,221 00:35:00,422 - That a thin-skinned cop doesn't destroy my case. - That a thin-skinned cop doesn't destroy my case.
805 00:35:00,489 00:35:01,423 - Mike. - Mike.
806 00:35:01,490 00:35:02,757 - Look, do you realize - Look, do you realize
807 00:35:02,825 00:35:04,893 How much his testimony is worth right now? How much his testimony is worth right now?
808 00:35:04,961 00:35:06,461 - All right, listen. - All right, listen.
809 00:35:06,529 00:35:08,930 Leary told him he knew about Kerry sands and her daughter. Leary told him he knew about Kerry sands and her daughter.
810 00:35:08,998 00:35:10,465 - Yes, but who's going to believe it? - Yes, but who's going to believe it?
811 00:35:10,533 00:35:11,933 - I do. You do. - I do. You do.
812 00:35:12,001 00:35:13,335 All we have to do is find out All we have to do is find out
813 00:35:13,402 00:35:15,203 How Leary knew the woman is nuts. How Leary knew the woman is nuts.
814 00:35:15,271 00:35:16,938 We get that into evidence, it won't matter We get that into evidence, it won't matter
815 00:35:17,006 00:35:18,273 What he did or didn't say to Bernard. What he did or didn't say to Bernard.
816 00:35:18,341 00:35:20,375 - Okay, okay, but Leary's not going to tell us, - Okay, okay, but Leary's not going to tell us,
817 00:35:20,443 00:35:22,477 And Kerry sands is in cuckoo-land, And Kerry sands is in cuckoo-land,
818 00:35:22,545 00:35:23,812 So how are we going to find out? So how are we going to find out?
819 00:35:23,879 00:35:26,081 - There's got to be a record somewhere-- - There's got to be a record somewhere--
820 00:35:26,148 00:35:28,250 A meeting, a conversation, an e-mail. A meeting, a conversation, an e-mail.
821 00:35:28,317 00:35:32,120 - Something somewhere. Pretty big haystack. - Something somewhere. Pretty big haystack.
822 00:35:35,391 00:35:37,826 - He was texting on the fdr drive - He was texting on the fdr drive
823 00:35:37,893 00:35:40,295 And almost ran a car with three kids in it off the road. And almost ran a car with three kids in it off the road.
824 00:35:40,363 00:35:42,364 One of our members analyzed the photo One of our members analyzed the photo
825 00:35:42,431 00:35:45,767 And determined it was going 73 miles per hour at the time. And determined it was going 73 miles per hour at the time.
826 00:35:45,835 00:35:48,336 Sid Maxwell deserved to be exposed. Sid Maxwell deserved to be exposed.
827 00:35:48,404 00:35:51,640 The point was to get him to change his ways The point was to get him to change his ways
828 00:35:51,707 00:35:52,874 Before he killed someone. Before he killed someone.
829 00:35:52,942 00:35:54,976 - But not to kill him? - But not to kill him?
830 00:35:55,044 00:35:57,145 - We're not murderers. - We're not murderers.
831 00:35:57,213 00:35:59,314 We spend our days in front of computers. We spend our days in front of computers.
832 00:35:59,382 00:36:01,683 We're just a bunch of well-meaning nerds We're just a bunch of well-meaning nerds
833 00:36:01,751 00:36:03,385 Who want to make this city a better place. Who want to make this city a better place.
834 00:36:03,452 00:36:05,453 - Thank you. - Thank you.
835 00:36:06,989 00:36:11,026 - So you and your colleagues don't get out much? - So you and your colleagues don't get out much?
836 00:36:11,093 00:36:13,762 Then why did you post Mr. Maxwell's address Then why did you post Mr. Maxwell's address
837 00:36:13,829 00:36:15,030 On your site? On your site?
838 00:36:15,097 00:36:17,399 - In case somebody wanted to write him a letter. - In case somebody wanted to write him a letter.
839 00:36:17,466 00:36:20,502 - And the Code to his building's door? - And the Code to his building's door?
840 00:36:20,569 00:36:22,304 From your website, uh, From your website, uh,
841 00:36:22,371 00:36:25,707 "in case anybody wants to drop by "in case anybody wants to drop by
842 00:36:25,775 00:36:28,176 And teach this jerk some manners." And teach this jerk some manners."
843 00:36:28,244 00:36:30,679 - Some people feel very strongly - Some people feel very strongly
844 00:36:30,746 00:36:32,881 About people like Sid Maxwell. About people like Sid Maxwell.
845 00:36:32,948 00:36:34,949 There was a woman in China who crushed-- There was a woman in China who crushed--
846 00:36:35,017 00:36:36,718 - I know. Crushed a kitten. - I know. Crushed a kitten.
847 00:36:36,786 00:36:40,522 So emotions run high? - They can. So emotions run high? - They can.
848 00:36:40,589 00:36:42,190 Sometimes people want to confront Sometimes people want to confront
849 00:36:42,258 00:36:43,491 People like that in person. People like that in person.
850 00:36:43,559 00:36:44,526 Sometimes that's the only way Sometimes that's the only way
851 00:36:44,593 00:36:46,461 People like that get the message. People like that get the message.
852 00:36:46,529 00:36:48,730 - "people like that." including Sid Maxwell? - "people like that." including Sid Maxwell?
853 00:36:48,798 00:36:50,732 - Yes, but that doesn't mean that I, - Yes, but that doesn't mean that I,
854 00:36:50,800 00:36:52,667 Or anyone else on flashposse.Net, Or anyone else on flashposse.Net,
855 00:36:52,735 00:36:54,202 Thought he'd be physically harmed. Thought he'd be physically harmed.
856 00:36:54,270 00:36:56,237 - Not even by Kerry sands, - Not even by Kerry sands,
857 00:36:56,305 00:36:59,674 Who posted 400 messages Who posted 400 messages
858 00:36:59,742 00:37:03,144 About revenge and the devil and death? About revenge and the devil and death?
859 00:37:03,212 00:37:06,314 - Have you ever read the internet, Mr. Cutter? - Have you ever read the internet, Mr. Cutter?
860 00:37:06,382 00:37:10,385 It's full of ranting and raving and exaggerated threats. It's full of ranting and raving and exaggerated threats.
861 00:37:10,453 00:37:13,288 Everyone says everyone else should drop dead. Everyone says everyone else should drop dead.
862 00:37:13,356 00:37:16,057 It's just a place for letting off steam. It's just a place for letting off steam.
863 00:37:16,125 00:37:17,258 - So you thought Kerry sands - So you thought Kerry sands
864 00:37:17,326 00:37:19,260 Was just letting off harmless steam? Was just letting off harmless steam?
865 00:37:19,328 00:37:20,895 - She and 50 million other people. - She and 50 million other people.
866 00:37:20,963 00:37:23,465 - Even though you knew she was living - Even though you knew she was living
867 00:37:23,532 00:37:25,567 In the midst of a psychotic delusion. In the midst of a psychotic delusion.
868 00:37:25,634 00:37:26,768 - I didn't know that. - I didn't know that.
869 00:37:26,836 00:37:28,970 - You told detective Bernard. - You told detective Bernard.
870 00:37:29,038 00:37:30,505 - I never told him that. - I never told him that.
871 00:37:30,573 00:37:32,474 Couldn't have. I didn't know it. Couldn't have. I didn't know it.
872 00:37:40,049 00:37:42,350 - It's from lupo. - It's from lupo.
873 00:37:47,089 00:37:50,925 - Mr. Leary, - Mr. Leary,
874 00:37:50,993 00:37:53,795 Were you with Kerry sands last August 20th Were you with Kerry sands last August 20th
875 00:37:53,863 00:37:56,231 When she physically assaulted a cabdriver When she physically assaulted a cabdriver
876 00:37:56,298 00:38:00,935 Who she accused of being the evil spawn of Satan? Who she accused of being the evil spawn of Satan?
877 00:38:01,003 00:38:02,804 - Uh, your honor, this is the first we've heard - Uh, your honor, this is the first we've heard
878 00:38:02,872 00:38:04,005 Of any such alleged incident. Of any such alleged incident.
879 00:38:04,073 00:38:05,540 If the people have some supposed evidence, If the people have some supposed evidence,
880 00:38:05,608 00:38:06,808 I'd like to see it. I'd like to see it.
881 00:38:06,876 00:38:09,144 - New information has just come to our attention. - New information has just come to our attention.
882 00:38:09,211 00:38:11,112 - Then share it with the defense. - Then share it with the defense.
883 00:38:11,180 00:38:12,914 We'll recess until tomorrow. We'll recess until tomorrow.
884 00:38:12,982 00:38:14,482 [gavel bangs] [gavel bangs]
885 00:38:17,920 00:38:19,320 - Now we knew Kerry sands - Now we knew Kerry sands
886 00:38:19,388 00:38:21,089 Had a thing for cabdrivers, right? Had a thing for cabdrivers, right?
887 00:38:21,157 00:38:22,824 Well, there are cabs around all the time, Well, there are cabs around all the time,
888 00:38:22,892 00:38:24,893 So I figured she might have had some interaction. So I figured she might have had some interaction.
889 00:38:24,960 00:38:27,028 It was just a matter of checking drivers' logs. It was just a matter of checking drivers' logs.
890 00:38:27,096 00:38:29,464 - There are 13,000 taxis in New York city. - There are 13,000 taxis in New York city.
891 00:38:29,532 00:38:31,433 - All right, so it was kind of labor-intensive. - All right, so it was kind of labor-intensive.
892 00:38:31,500 00:38:32,867 Now, there were 209 Now, there were 209
893 00:38:32,935 00:38:35,370 That reported violent behavior by women in the last year. That reported violent behavior by women in the last year.
894 00:38:35,438 00:38:36,938 102 of those were on the street 102 of those were on the street
895 00:38:37,006 00:38:39,407 In range of atm or other security cameras. In range of atm or other security cameras.
896 00:38:39,475 00:38:41,643 - That's hundreds of cameras, all on different systems. - That's hundreds of cameras, all on different systems.
897 00:38:41,710 00:38:46,247 - Right, so here's a camera still of Kerry sands - Right, so here's a camera still of Kerry sands
898 00:38:46,315 00:38:48,883 Assaulting a driver on 42nd street. Assaulting a driver on 42nd street.
899 00:38:48,951 00:38:50,385 I talked to the driver. I talked to the driver.
900 00:38:50,453 00:38:51,519 He said she was screaming He said she was screaming
901 00:38:51,587 00:38:53,822 That the devil told him to murder her daughter. That the devil told him to murder her daughter.
902 00:38:53,889 00:38:56,357 - And to find him, you searched 13,000 taxi logs - And to find him, you searched 13,000 taxi logs
903 00:38:56,425 00:38:59,327 And then every security camera near 209 incidents? And then every security camera near 209 incidents?
904 00:38:59,395 00:39:00,762 - Sort of. - Sort of.
905 00:39:00,830 00:39:02,831 The driver also told me there was a man with Kerry sands. The driver also told me there was a man with Kerry sands.
906 00:39:02,898 00:39:05,433 He walked away after she started getting violent. He walked away after she started getting violent.
907 00:39:05,501 00:39:06,501 This is him, right here. This is him, right here.
908 00:39:06,569 00:39:08,570 - All I can see is the back of his head. - All I can see is the back of his head.
909 00:39:08,637 00:39:11,172 - You see the reflection in the store window there? - You see the reflection in the store window there?
910 00:39:11,240 00:39:15,376 With the right software, boom. With the right software, boom.
911 00:39:15,444 00:39:17,445 - Leary. - Leary.
912 00:39:17,513 00:39:21,783 - Did you have a subpoena for the cameras - Did you have a subpoena for the cameras
913 00:39:21,851 00:39:23,017 For any of this? For any of this?
914 00:39:23,085 00:39:25,053 - I'm not the one who got 'em. - I'm not the one who got 'em.
915 00:39:25,120 00:39:27,856 This took a few thousand people working around the clock. This took a few thousand people working around the clock.
916 00:39:27,923 00:39:29,724 - The entire nypd? - The entire nypd?
917 00:39:29,792 00:39:32,927 - Chinese people. A "human flesh search engine." - Chinese people. A "human flesh search engine."
918 00:39:32,995 00:39:34,996 I have a friend in the shanghai p.D. I have a friend in the shanghai p.D.
919 00:39:35,064 00:39:36,030 From my days in intel. From my days in intel.
920 00:39:36,098 00:39:38,132 I told him a cop needed a hand. I told him a cop needed a hand.
921 00:39:38,200 00:39:40,235 - Fire with fire. - Fire with fire.
922 00:39:40,302 00:39:42,871 Our internet posse against Leary's. Our internet posse against Leary's.
923 00:39:42,938 00:39:46,407 - And none of these came from Leary's home or office. - And none of these came from Leary's home or office.
924 00:39:46,475 00:39:48,042 - It's admissible. - It's admissible.
925 00:39:52,414 00:39:54,549 - Mr. Leary, can you tell us - Mr. Leary, can you tell us
926 00:39:54,617 00:39:55,884 What's happening in this picture? What's happening in this picture?
927 00:39:55,951 00:39:58,219 - Your honor, may we approach? - Your honor, may we approach?
928 00:40:02,825 00:40:04,192 - We're still not satisfied - We're still not satisfied
929 00:40:04,260 00:40:05,727 As to the origin of this material. As to the origin of this material.
930 00:40:05,794 00:40:06,728 - Why, it came from a lamppost security camera. - Why, it came from a lamppost security camera.
931 00:40:06,795 00:40:08,162 - Where'd the state get it? - Where'd the state get it?
932 00:40:08,230 00:40:09,163 There's no record of any process being served. There's no record of any process being served.
933 00:40:09,231 00:40:10,298 - It doesn't matter. - It doesn't matter.
934 00:40:10,366 00:40:12,267 Mr. Leary has no expectation of privacy Mr. Leary has no expectation of privacy
935 00:40:12,334 00:40:13,268 In the middle of 42nd street. In the middle of 42nd street.
936 00:40:13,335 00:40:14,769 - Even if he didn't, - Even if he didn't,
937 00:40:14,837 00:40:17,138 There's no context to explain what's happening here. There's no context to explain what's happening here.
938 00:40:17,206 00:40:20,108 - I'll ask him to explain, and if he can't remember, - I'll ask him to explain, and if he can't remember,
939 00:40:20,175 00:40:22,343 Then we'll bring in the taxi driver. Then we'll bring in the taxi driver.
940 00:40:22,411 00:40:24,445 - That works, Mr. Margolis. - That works, Mr. Margolis.
941 00:40:24,513 00:40:28,283 Mr. Cutter, you may proceed. Mr. Cutter, you may proceed.
942 00:40:28,350 00:40:31,319 - Now you told us yesterday, Mr. Leary, - Now you told us yesterday, Mr. Leary,
943 00:40:31,387 00:40:33,488 That you had no idea That you had no idea
944 00:40:33,556 00:40:38,693 Kerry sands was violent or delusional. Kerry sands was violent or delusional.
945 00:40:38,761 00:40:42,230 Doesn't this picture show us that you did know? Doesn't this picture show us that you did know?
946 00:40:42,298 00:40:45,733 - That's arguable. - That's arguable.
947 00:40:45,801 00:40:50,505 - It was a crazy, violent outburst - It was a crazy, violent outburst
948 00:40:50,573 00:40:52,273 Right in front of your face. Right in front of your face.
949 00:40:52,341 00:40:58,112 But you still kept goading her to go after Sid Maxwell. But you still kept goading her to go after Sid Maxwell.
950 00:40:58,180 00:40:59,514 - [exhales] - [exhales]
951 00:41:04,286 00:41:06,454 [sighs] [sighs]
952 00:41:08,324 00:41:11,793 I never told her to kill anybody. I never told her to kill anybody.
953 00:41:11,860 00:41:14,796 - The woman was dangerously out of control. - The woman was dangerously out of control.
954 00:41:14,863 00:41:16,464 What did you expect? What did you expect?
955 00:41:16,532 00:41:19,667 What did you reasonably expect? What did you reasonably expect?
956 00:41:28,077 00:41:31,346 - Yeah. All right. - Yeah. All right.
957 00:41:31,413 00:41:32,513 That was cutter. That was cutter.
958 00:41:32,581 00:41:34,215 Leary and the others took pleas. Leary and the others took pleas.
959 00:41:34,283 00:41:37,051 They're going away for manslaughter. They're going away for manslaughter.
960 00:41:37,119 00:41:38,553 - Good. - Good.
961 00:41:38,621 00:41:41,222 - Thank you. [clears throat] - Thank you. [clears throat]
962 00:41:46,328 00:41:47,962 You know, You know,
963 00:41:48,030 00:41:51,265 If we'd have known... If we'd have known...
964 00:41:51,333 00:41:53,067 I mean, I would have I mean, I would have
965 00:41:53,135 00:41:55,103 Put myself out there as the target. Put myself out there as the target.
966 00:41:57,573 00:42:00,375 - I never thought they would dig that up. - I never thought they would dig that up.
967 00:42:03,178 00:42:04,712 - How is the kid? - How is the kid?
968 00:42:06,915 00:42:09,384 - His mother and I... - His mother and I...
969 00:42:09,451 00:42:13,154 She ended up marrying her actual boyfriend. She ended up marrying her actual boyfriend.
970 00:42:13,222 00:42:16,090 We both decided that it would be better-- We both decided that it would be better--
971 00:42:16,158 00:42:18,693 Less confusing-- if I didn't see him. Less confusing-- if I didn't see him.