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1 00:00:15,349 00:00:20,062 - So my name's Paul Greengrass. - And my name is Matt Damon. - So my name's Paul Greengrass. - And my name is Matt Damon.
2 00:00:22,105 00:00:27,152 Well, Green Zone started for me when we were doing, Well, Green Zone started for me when we were doing,
3 00:00:27,236 00:00:31,782 or towards the end of when we were making Bourne Supremacy. or towards the end of when we were making Bourne Supremacy.
4 00:00:31,865 00:00:34,451 - Ultimatum? - No, Supremacy. - Ultimatum? - No, Supremacy.
5 00:00:36,870 00:00:41,458 After it came out, I sat down with Universal, After it came out, I sat down with Universal,
6 00:00:41,542 00:00:42,796 and they said, "Well, what do you wanna do next?" and they said, "Well, what do you wanna do next?"
7 00:00:42,876 00:00:48,131 And I said I wanted to do 9/11 and the war in Iraq, And I said I wanted to do 9/11 and the war in Iraq,
8 00:00:48,215 00:00:52,386 because they were the two great events that seemed to me because they were the two great events that seemed to me
9 00:00:52,469 00:00:55,931 to be driving the world we were living in. to be driving the world we were living in.
10 00:00:56,014 00:01:01,395 And I thought, at that time, it was gonna be one film, but in fact it turned out to be two. And I thought, at that time, it was gonna be one film, but in fact it turned out to be two.
11 00:01:01,478 00:01:05,232 The first one, obviously, United 93, then we did Ultimatum, The first one, obviously, United 93, then we did Ultimatum,
12 00:01:05,315 00:01:09,987 and then we started what became Green Zone. and then we started what became Green Zone.
13 00:01:13,699 00:01:16,034 And I think, for me, what was interesting And I think, for me, what was interesting
14 00:01:16,118 00:01:18,996 when we were doing the Bourne films, and particularly Ultimatum, when we were doing the Bourne films, and particularly Ultimatum,
15 00:01:19,079 00:01:23,500 was that sense that there was a huge audience that loved those films was that sense that there was a huge audience that loved those films
16 00:01:23,584 00:01:29,965 that came to the Bourne films and loved the attitude of the films, that came to the Bourne films and loved the attitude of the films,
17 00:01:30,048 00:01:33,468 and the fact that it was Bourne world, and the fact that it was Bourne world,
18 00:01:33,552 00:01:38,056 but it seemed to draw on the real world and what was going on, but it seemed to draw on the real world and what was going on,
19 00:01:38,140 00:01:40,350 and the kind of paranoia and the mistrust. and the kind of paranoia and the mistrust.
20 00:01:40,434 00:01:45,772 And so when I look back now at Green Zone, it feels to me And so when I look back now at Green Zone, it feels to me
21 00:01:45,856 00:01:51,862 like we were really asking that audience to take one more step, like we were really asking that audience to take one more step,
22 00:01:51,945 00:01:55,324 and that would be the step back to the real world, and that would be the step back to the real world,
23 00:01:55,407 00:02:00,912 to really go back to the moment when all this paranoia and mistrust began. to really go back to the moment when all this paranoia and mistrust began.
24 00:02:01,121 00:02:06,877 And that, I think, was the circumstances that surrounded the decision And that, I think, was the circumstances that surrounded the decision
25 00:02:06,960 00:02:10,380 to go to war and the start of the war in Baghdad. to go to war and the start of the war in Baghdad.
26 00:02:10,464 00:02:14,384 And, I think, all of us, whatever you think of that conflict, And, I think, all of us, whatever you think of that conflict,
27 00:02:14,468 00:02:18,347 whatever point of view you have about what happened, whatever point of view you have about what happened,
28 00:02:18,430 00:02:23,310 know that those events in 2003 know that those events in 2003
29 00:02:24,353 00:02:27,189 were very profound in shaping our world. were very profound in shaping our world.
30 00:02:29,566 00:02:34,571 As we look at a beautiful effects shot by Peter Chiang. One of many. As we look at a beautiful effects shot by Peter Chiang. One of many.
31 00:02:35,364 00:02:36,490 Yeah. Yeah.
32 00:02:48,126 00:02:51,505 Approaching target site three-five-niner. Approaching target site three-five-niner.
33 00:02:54,383 00:02:59,054 Really, the first idea that we discussed Really, the first idea that we discussed
34 00:02:59,137 00:03:05,811 was to make us a film about a US soldier was to make us a film about a US soldier
35 00:03:06,645 00:03:08,980 involved in the hunt for WMD. involved in the hunt for WMD.
36 00:03:09,940 00:03:13,568 And I think what drew us both, really, And I think what drew us both, really,
37 00:03:13,652 00:03:18,281 was the idea that you could have an ordinary guy, was the idea that you could have an ordinary guy,
38 00:03:20,117 00:03:22,411 a hero at the heart of the story, a hero at the heart of the story,
39 00:03:22,494 00:03:27,582 who comes to Iraq to do a straightforward job. who comes to Iraq to do a straightforward job.
40 00:03:27,666 00:03:31,712 He comes because he's told that there are WMD there, and he's gonna find them. He comes because he's told that there are WMD there, and he's gonna find them.
41 00:03:40,679 00:03:44,599 Very much, actually, like the story of Monty Gonzales, Very much, actually, like the story of Monty Gonzales,
42 00:03:44,683 00:03:48,437 who was our technical advisor, who was our technical advisor,
43 00:03:48,520 00:03:51,606 and who this character is loosely based on. and who this character is loosely based on.
44 00:03:53,024 00:03:54,864 What the fuck are all these looters doing here? What the fuck are all these looters doing here?
45 00:03:55,527 00:03:57,404 Monty believed very much Monty believed very much
46 00:03:57,487 00:04:00,866 that they would find weapons when he went looking for them. that they would find weapons when he went looking for them.
47 00:04:01,116 00:04:02,784 We got a sniper in this tower right here. We got a sniper in this tower right here.
48 00:04:02,868 00:04:04,790 - In the big tower on the back? - In the big tower on the back. - In the big tower on the back? - In the big tower on the back.
49 00:04:04,870 00:04:08,832 I think I say in the movie that this is the third site or the fourth site that we've hit, I think I say in the movie that this is the third site or the fourth site that we've hit,
50 00:04:08,915 00:04:11,376 but Monty, in fact, told me he knew after the very first site but Monty, in fact, told me he knew after the very first site
51 00:04:11,460 00:04:13,628 that there was nothing there. that there was nothing there.
52 00:04:14,087 00:04:15,926 I don't know what these people are carrying out right now. I don't know what these people are carrying out right now.
53 00:04:16,006 00:04:20,177 And so, for people like Monty, who were absolute believers And so, for people like Monty, who were absolute believers
54 00:04:20,260 00:04:22,596 and career military people, it was a really and career military people, it was a really
55 00:04:27,768 00:04:30,729 particularly tough experience. particularly tough experience.
56 00:04:30,812 00:04:32,814 Here's Where we are right now. Here's Where we are right now.
57 00:04:32,898 00:04:39,738 I mean, this first section here, when Miller takes the guys into the Diwaniya site, I mean, this first section here, when Miller takes the guys into the Diwaniya site,
58 00:04:39,821 00:04:46,578 I mean, in a way, he's on the same journey that we all were on. I mean, in a way, he's on the same journey that we all were on.
59 00:04:46,661 00:04:51,541 I mean, certainly, I remember it. We all, in a sense, went to Iraq I mean, certainly, I remember it. We all, in a sense, went to Iraq
60 00:04:51,625 00:04:54,669 expecting that they would find the weapons of mass destruction. expecting that they would find the weapons of mass destruction.
61 00:04:54,753 00:04:57,756 Certainly I did. I assumed that within a matter of days Certainly I did. I assumed that within a matter of days
62 00:04:57,839 00:05:03,011 they'd be holding a massive press conference they'd be holding a massive press conference
63 00:05:03,094 00:05:07,432 having found some horrendous weapons stash. having found some horrendous weapons stash.
64 00:05:10,977 00:05:13,522 And really, this first section is to And really, this first section is to
65 00:05:14,648 00:05:17,067 take the central character on that same journey. take the central character on that same journey.
66 00:05:17,442 00:05:19,114 - They will take you in. - Roger that, Chief. - They will take you in. - Roger that, Chief.
67 00:05:19,194 00:05:20,407 - All right. We ready? - Yes, sir! - All right. We ready? - Yes, sir!
68 00:05:20,487 00:05:21,530 Let's go. Go! Let's go. Go!
69 00:05:21,613 00:05:27,494 As well, obviously, as to start the film, pitching you into the conflict straightaway. As well, obviously, as to start the film, pitching you into the conflict straightaway.
70 00:05:27,577 00:05:28,620 Where is he? Where is he?
71 00:05:28,703 00:05:30,625 He's right up there, but we can't get down the alley. He's right up there, but we can't get down the alley.
72 00:05:30,705 00:05:36,795 I mean, the interesting thing, from my point of view, when we first started, I mean, the interesting thing, from my point of view, when we first started,
73 00:05:38,713 00:05:43,552 was that for the longest time, I was was that for the longest time, I was
74 00:05:45,637 00:05:50,684 trying to develop a story that would be about a character trying to develop a story that would be about a character
75 00:05:50,767 00:05:56,398 who became, obviously, Miller, who was involved in the hunt for WMD. who became, obviously, Miller, who was involved in the hunt for WMD.
76 00:05:56,481 00:05:59,693 But it always seemed, to me, to get so far. But it always seemed, to me, to get so far.
77 00:05:59,776 00:06:04,030 He'd be a character who'd find that the weapons weren't there, He'd be a character who'd find that the weapons weren't there,
78 00:06:04,114 00:06:05,907 and then he would start to ask questions, and then he would start to ask questions,
79 00:06:05,991 00:06:10,912 and that would start to sort of pitch you into, basically, a conspiracy thriller. and that would start to sort of pitch you into, basically, a conspiracy thriller.
80 00:06:10,996 00:06:15,292 But it always felt to me about halfway through, But it always felt to me about halfway through,
81 00:06:15,375 00:06:17,836 this is in the early stages of developing the piece, this is in the early stages of developing the piece,
82 00:06:17,919 00:06:20,755 that it ran out of steam. that it ran out of steam.
83 00:06:22,215 00:06:28,221 And that was when I read a book that had a very big impact on me, And that was when I read a book that had a very big impact on me,
84 00:06:28,305 00:06:32,976 Imperial Life in the Emerald City by Rajiv. Imperial Life in the Emerald City by Rajiv.
85 00:06:34,644 00:06:40,817 And that book really described the world of the Green Zone And that book really described the world of the Green Zone
86 00:06:42,068 00:06:46,281 and the kind of absolute mismatch and the kind of absolute mismatch
87 00:06:46,364 00:06:50,702 between what was being planned in Washington and London between what was being planned in Washington and London
88 00:06:50,785 00:06:54,873 and what was actually happening on the ground in the heart of Baghdad. and what was actually happening on the ground in the heart of Baghdad.
89 00:06:54,956 00:06:59,711 And that's really where, for me, the film started to take root, And that's really where, for me, the film started to take root,
90 00:06:59,794 00:07:03,548 because you could see that Miller would have to travel to the Green Zone, because you could see that Miller would have to travel to the Green Zone,
91 00:07:03,632 00:07:06,051 and there he'd find his answers, and there he'd find his answers,
92 00:07:06,134 00:07:12,682 and that gave, in my imagination, something to aim at. and that gave, in my imagination, something to aim at.
93 00:07:12,766 00:07:15,727 And obviously, Brian Helgeland, who wrote the screenplay... And obviously, Brian Helgeland, who wrote the screenplay...
94 00:07:15,810 00:07:21,816 It's not an adaptation of the book. Far from it. It's Brian's story. It's not an adaptation of the book. Far from it. It's Brian's story.
95 00:07:23,360 00:07:26,196 But it was those two elements coming together, But it was those two elements coming together,
96 00:07:26,279 00:07:29,866 the hunt for WMD, a man on a noble mission believing that they're there, the hunt for WMD, a man on a noble mission believing that they're there,
97 00:07:29,950 00:07:32,118 finding they're not there, asking questions, finding they're not there, asking questions,
98 00:07:32,202 00:07:35,372 and then being propelled into the Green Zone, and then being propelled into the Green Zone,
99 00:07:35,455 00:07:37,791 that's really the story. that's really the story.
100 00:07:37,874 00:07:40,034 Now you heard Chief. Get ready. Roll those seals tight. Now you heard Chief. Get ready. Roll those seals tight.
101 00:07:42,087 00:07:44,172 Yeah, I just love the energy of this opening, too, Yeah, I just love the energy of this opening, too,
102 00:07:44,255 00:07:46,967 and it kind of drives home that point. and it kind of drives home that point.
103 00:07:47,467 00:07:52,764 The military will go where you tell them to go and take these incredible risks The military will go where you tell them to go and take these incredible risks
104 00:07:52,847 00:07:57,060 and do it together in a very courageous way, and do it together in a very courageous way,
105 00:07:57,143 00:08:03,984 and so you gotta make sure you're sending them to the right place for the right reason. and so you gotta make sure you're sending them to the right place for the right reason.
106 00:08:05,694 00:08:10,907 I mean, I think we were all, weren't we, very lucky in this film I mean, I think we were all, weren't we, very lucky in this film
107 00:08:10,991 00:08:14,202 - to have all these soldiers that you can see. - Yeah. - to have all these soldiers that you can see. - Yeah.
108 00:08:14,285 00:08:19,416 They were all Iraqi vets, and in some cases, continuing to serve. They were all Iraqi vets, and in some cases, continuing to serve.
109 00:08:19,499 00:08:22,627 As an actor, that was the big thing. As an actor, that was the big thing.
110 00:08:22,711 00:08:25,005 I mean, normally, we get one technical adviser. I mean, normally, we get one technical adviser.
111 00:08:25,088 00:08:28,174 We had 30 of them there, because these guys had all just come back. We had 30 of them there, because these guys had all just come back.
112 00:08:28,258 00:08:30,719 Some of them had seen some pretty heavy combat. Some of them had seen some pretty heavy combat.
113 00:08:30,802 00:08:34,681 And to talk to them about all of the procedural stuff, And to talk to them about all of the procedural stuff,
114 00:08:34,764 00:08:38,935 to play a chief warrant officer and he, basically, directing these guys to play a chief warrant officer and he, basically, directing these guys
115 00:08:39,019 00:08:42,022 was, at first, very intimidating, because they were the real thing, was, at first, very intimidating, because they were the real thing,
116 00:08:42,105 00:08:47,235 and I felt like a dippy actor trying to... I didn't feel comfortable giving them orders. and I felt like a dippy actor trying to... I didn't feel comfortable giving them orders.
117 00:08:47,318 00:08:52,949 It was really them who pushed me to get comfortable doing that. It was really them who pushed me to get comfortable doing that.
118 00:08:53,033 00:08:58,204 The piece was gonna fall apart if we all didn't believe who we were, The piece was gonna fall apart if we all didn't believe who we were,
119 00:08:58,288 00:08:59,873 and they were just incredibly helpful and they were just incredibly helpful
120 00:08:59,956 00:09:05,462 in making me create something that felt, I hope, authentic. in making me create something that felt, I hope, authentic.
121 00:09:06,421 00:09:07,464 Yeah. Yeah.
122 00:09:07,547 00:09:13,595 I mean, all those guys had themselves been part of MET units. I mean, all those guys had themselves been part of MET units.
123 00:09:13,678 00:09:16,139 These MET units were the units These MET units were the units
124 00:09:16,222 00:09:20,643 that were tasked to go across the border in the first days after the war that were tasked to go across the border in the first days after the war
125 00:09:20,727 00:09:24,981 and secure sites where they believed WMD were held, and secure sites where they believed WMD were held,
126 00:09:25,065 00:09:29,319 and they'd all taken part in exactly these kinds of missions. and they'd all taken part in exactly these kinds of missions.
127 00:09:30,070 00:09:33,865 And when you make any film... And when you make any film...
128 00:09:35,116 00:09:39,329 I think people watching this DVD kind of assume I think people watching this DVD kind of assume
129 00:09:39,412 00:09:43,500 that the process is actually a lot more linear than it actually is. that the process is actually a lot more linear than it actually is.
130 00:09:43,583 00:09:48,046 You know, that you have an idea, you write a screenplay, you shoot the screenplay, You know, that you have an idea, you write a screenplay, you shoot the screenplay,
131 00:09:48,129 00:09:50,924 you cut the film, it comes out. you cut the film, it comes out.
132 00:09:51,007 00:09:54,511 But the truth is, it's actually a series But the truth is, it's actually a series
133 00:09:55,970 00:10:02,894 of growing a project by degrees with people who share the vision of it. of growing a project by degrees with people who share the vision of it.
134 00:10:02,977 00:10:05,814 And those people, those soldiers, And those people, those soldiers,
135 00:10:05,897 00:10:10,443 were absolutely crucial in anchoring the project were absolutely crucial in anchoring the project
136 00:10:10,527 00:10:13,863 in, firstly, a kind of a reality, in, firstly, a kind of a reality,
137 00:10:13,947 00:10:19,619 but secondly, that its moral thrust, that what it really was about but secondly, that its moral thrust, that what it really was about
138 00:10:20,203 00:10:25,708 was allowing the soldiers' point of view of that conflict was allowing the soldiers' point of view of that conflict
139 00:10:26,584 00:10:28,837 to come out, you know? to come out, you know?
140 00:10:30,588 00:10:34,926 - I think, don't you? - Yeah, definitely. Definitely. - I think, don't you? - Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
141 00:10:36,719 00:10:42,142 And now we're at Baghdad Airport, which was actually shot in Morocco. And now we're at Baghdad Airport, which was actually shot in Morocco.
142 00:10:45,562 00:10:50,483 Any time you see a spare bit of sky, Peter Chiang has put a helicopter in there. Any time you see a spare bit of sky, Peter Chiang has put a helicopter in there.
143 00:10:51,276 00:10:57,490 0-130. It's really incredible how big the movie feels, given where we were, 0-130. It's really incredible how big the movie feels, given where we were,
144 00:10:58,575 00:11:01,703 where we actually shot a lot of this stuff. where we actually shot a lot of this stuff.
145 00:11:02,745 00:11:07,834 It really is a testament to Peter, It really is a testament to Peter,
146 00:11:07,917 00:11:10,879 and also to where the movie business is going, and also to where the movie business is going,
147 00:11:10,962 00:11:15,008 where you're able to do a lot of things where you're able to do a lot of things
148 00:11:16,009 00:11:19,262 with effects now that are completely seamless with effects now that are completely seamless
149 00:11:20,471 00:11:25,268 and really do augment your movie in a great way. and really do augment your movie in a great way.
150 00:11:25,476 00:11:30,982 Yeah. And it was always absolutely fundamental to this film Yeah. And it was always absolutely fundamental to this film
151 00:11:31,065 00:11:35,612 that we would inhabit Baghdad. that we would inhabit Baghdad.
152 00:11:35,695 00:11:39,199 It's an environment that you see a lot on the news. It's an environment that you see a lot on the news.
153 00:11:40,825 00:11:46,706 But until you actually see it and experience it on a big screen, But until you actually see it and experience it on a big screen,
154 00:11:46,789 00:11:50,126 it's hard to really grasp what it's like. it's hard to really grasp what it's like.
155 00:11:50,210 00:11:52,629 But one of the things I'm most proud of in this film But one of the things I'm most proud of in this film
156 00:11:52,712 00:11:57,217 is that I think it authentically brings you to Baghdad. is that I think it authentically brings you to Baghdad.
157 00:11:57,300 00:12:01,721 And the amount of detail in mapping the exact contours And the amount of detail in mapping the exact contours
158 00:12:01,804 00:12:03,973 of Baghdad and these exact locations, of Baghdad and these exact locations,
159 00:12:04,057 00:12:09,270 I mean, the care that Peter and his team took was absolutely incredible, I think. I mean, the care that Peter and his team took was absolutely incredible, I think.
160 00:12:09,354 00:12:10,396 Yeah. Yeah.
161 00:12:10,480 00:12:16,027 And to convey the sense of a blasted kind of landscape, And to convey the sense of a blasted kind of landscape,
162 00:12:16,152 00:12:18,488 days after the invasion. days after the invasion.
163 00:12:27,580 00:12:29,165 I want a squad list, now! I want a squad list, now!
164 00:12:30,208 00:12:32,794 So our story's starting to unfold now. So our story's starting to unfold now.
165 00:12:32,877 00:12:37,006 We've met Poundstone, Greg Kinnear's character, We've met Poundstone, Greg Kinnear's character,
166 00:12:38,007 00:12:41,177 and Lawrie Dayne, Amy Ryan's character. and Lawrie Dayne, Amy Ryan's character.
167 00:12:41,261 00:12:46,683 And that's got the whole story going of a source, And that's got the whole story going of a source,
168 00:12:46,766 00:12:49,644 there's a source out there that's not been disclosed. there's a source out there that's not been disclosed.
169 00:12:49,727 00:12:52,605 And now we come back to Miller's side of the story, And now we come back to Miller's side of the story,
170 00:12:52,689 00:12:57,568 and he's still pursuing the "Where are the WMD?" issue. and he's still pursuing the "Where are the WMD?" issue.
171 00:12:57,694 00:13:03,366 I always very much liked this scene, 'cause I think it takes an audience I always very much liked this scene, 'cause I think it takes an audience
172 00:13:03,449 00:13:06,995 back to those days immediately after the invasion back to those days immediately after the invasion
173 00:13:07,078 00:13:10,123 where there was great confidence that this was all gonna be sorted out. where there was great confidence that this was all gonna be sorted out.
174 00:13:10,206 00:13:15,211 Nobody knew at that time what was gonna happen. Nobody knew at that time what was gonna happen.
175 00:13:15,295 00:13:18,798 And also, in terms of a straight thriller here, And also, in terms of a straight thriller here,
176 00:13:18,881 00:13:24,929 you want that moment when your hero is knocked back. you want that moment when your hero is knocked back.
177 00:13:25,054 00:13:29,225 He asks a straightforward question, and he's knocked back. He asks a straightforward question, and he's knocked back.
178 00:13:29,309 00:13:31,894 And that, in a way, is kind of... And that, in a way, is kind of...
179 00:13:33,396 00:13:36,399 It starts to drive the character from then on, It starts to drive the character from then on,
180 00:13:36,482 00:13:38,901 'cause you know that he's not gonna take "no" for an answer. 'cause you know that he's not gonna take "no" for an answer.
181 00:13:38,985 00:13:42,363 Today we're going to be briefing you on WMD operations due to take place Today we're going to be briefing you on WMD operations due to take place
182 00:13:42,447 00:13:44,407 in and around the Baghdad area. in and around the Baghdad area.
183 00:13:44,741 00:13:48,411 A lot of these scenes we shot longer. For instance, we ran this press conference... A lot of these scenes we shot longer. For instance, we ran this press conference...
184 00:13:48,494 00:13:52,415 This is our introduction of our CIA guy, Brendan. This is our introduction of our CIA guy, Brendan.
185 00:13:53,624 00:13:59,005 But this, we ran as a real press conference. But this, we ran as a real press conference.
186 00:14:03,593 00:14:05,345 A real meeting. These guys are all... A real meeting. These guys are all...
187 00:14:05,428 00:14:08,598 There's Paul Rieckhoff over in the corner. There's Paul Rieckhoff over in the corner.
188 00:14:09,599 00:14:12,810 This is kind of how these things really do run. This is kind of how these things really do run.
189 00:14:15,605 00:14:18,483 It was probably a 15-minute improvisation It was probably a 15-minute improvisation
190 00:14:18,608 00:14:22,111 for a lot of the questions and answers and back and forth for a lot of the questions and answers and back and forth
191 00:14:23,279 00:14:26,949 that Paul and Chris cut back that Paul and Chris cut back
192 00:14:27,450 00:14:31,162 to exactly what you need to jump-start your plot. to exactly what you need to jump-start your plot.
193 00:14:33,456 00:14:36,125 Chief, how about we do this? Let's talk offline. Chief, how about we do this? Let's talk offline.
194 00:14:36,292 00:14:40,296 Yeah, it has a sort of sense of reality, Yeah, it has a sort of sense of reality,
195 00:14:40,838 00:14:46,886 and it's that thing where, if you can introduce actors... and it's that thing where, if you can introduce actors...
196 00:14:46,969 00:14:48,725 - I mean, there's Mike. - Yeah, Michael's great. - I mean, there's Mike. - Yeah, Michael's great.
197 00:14:48,805 00:14:52,141 And Patrick there, and you... And Patrick there, and you...
198 00:14:52,225 00:14:56,646 There are professional actors in there, interacting There are professional actors in there, interacting
199 00:14:57,647 00:15:02,652 with professional military people. with professional military people.
200 00:15:02,735 00:15:08,491 It's something a lot of directors do. I like to do it. It's something a lot of directors do. I like to do it.
201 00:15:08,574 00:15:13,663 Because when you get it right, and you don't always get it right, as you know, Because when you get it right, and you don't always get it right, as you know,
202 00:15:13,746 00:15:18,459 but what you want is, essentially, but what you want is, essentially,
203 00:15:18,543 00:15:24,382 it can encourage and assist the process whereby the professional actor doesn't act, it can encourage and assist the process whereby the professional actor doesn't act,
204 00:15:24,507 00:15:28,970 and it assists, profoundly, the professional person to start to act. and it assists, profoundly, the professional person to start to act.
205 00:15:29,053 00:15:30,096 Right. Right. Right. Right.
206 00:15:30,179 00:15:33,307 And where the two kind of meet, And where the two kind of meet,
207 00:15:33,391 00:15:39,772 you get a sweet spot where it feels powerfully performed but utterly real. you get a sweet spot where it feels powerfully performed but utterly real.
208 00:15:39,856 00:15:43,109 Yeah, and that really is going back to, I mean, using all these real guys. Yeah, and that really is going back to, I mean, using all these real guys.
209 00:15:43,192 00:15:49,574 It really just, from my perspective, just puts me right in there. It really just, from my perspective, just puts me right in there.
210 00:15:49,699 00:15:54,162 So we've come out of the JMOC, and now I've caught the eye of Brendan, So we've come out of the JMOC, and now I've caught the eye of Brendan,
211 00:15:54,245 00:15:58,499 who realizes that I'm not somebody who's gonna kind of toe the company line. who realizes that I'm not somebody who's gonna kind of toe the company line.
212 00:15:58,583 00:16:02,920 I'm realizing that these things are empty, and there's a problem with the intel. I'm realizing that these things are empty, and there's a problem with the intel.
213 00:16:03,045 00:16:09,969 And so he tries to establish a connection with me. And so he tries to establish a connection with me.
214 00:16:11,387 00:16:14,515 Give me the card, and the plot moves forward. Give me the card, and the plot moves forward.
215 00:16:14,599 00:16:20,396 Yeah, and it goes back to that opening thing. Yeah, and it goes back to that opening thing.
216 00:16:23,232 00:16:27,236 Yeah, you have a choice when you're dealing with this material. Yeah, you have a choice when you're dealing with this material.
217 00:16:28,237 00:16:32,116 I always wanted... Well, I think we both did, didn't we? I always wanted... Well, I think we both did, didn't we?
218 00:16:32,241 00:16:39,040 You want to make a film about this material that, hopefully, people will see. You want to make a film about this material that, hopefully, people will see.
219 00:16:39,123 00:16:40,208 Yeah. Yeah.
220 00:16:40,291 00:16:44,212 So, obviously, if you're gonna do that, So, obviously, if you're gonna do that,
221 00:16:44,295 00:16:47,882 you have to inhabit, at some level, genre. you have to inhabit, at some level, genre.
222 00:16:47,965 00:16:50,718 You've got to tell your story in a way You've got to tell your story in a way
223 00:16:50,801 00:16:54,222 that people are gonna instantly identify the type of story it is, that people are gonna instantly identify the type of story it is,
224 00:16:54,305 00:16:59,977 and it's gonna carry the promise of being rewarding for them as an audience. and it's gonna carry the promise of being rewarding for them as an audience.
225 00:17:00,102 00:17:04,148 A rewarding experience, which means it's gonna be a thriller, A rewarding experience, which means it's gonna be a thriller,
226 00:17:04,273 00:17:07,652 it's gonna have a driving narrative. it's gonna have a driving narrative.
227 00:17:07,777 00:17:12,073 It's gonna have the things that they would associate us with It's gonna have the things that they would associate us with
228 00:17:12,156 00:17:15,243 in terms of, yeah, economical storytelling, in terms of, yeah, economical storytelling,
229 00:17:15,326 00:17:19,247 clarity, pace, a lot of dynamism, a lot of physicality. clarity, pace, a lot of dynamism, a lot of physicality.
230 00:17:19,330 00:17:23,125 And I think that And I think that
231 00:17:25,711 00:17:30,925 underlying all of that is this question that I think is so interesting in this film, underlying all of that is this question that I think is so interesting in this film,
232 00:17:31,008 00:17:36,013 which is, you've enjoyed this sort of experience in Bourne world, which is, you've enjoyed this sort of experience in Bourne world,
233 00:17:37,473 00:17:39,725 but take one more step back to the real world but take one more step back to the real world
234 00:17:39,809 00:17:44,689 and see that, actually, this landscape and see that, actually, this landscape
235 00:17:44,814 00:17:50,236 gives you that same sense of intrigue, conspiracy, paranoia, gives you that same sense of intrigue, conspiracy, paranoia,
236 00:17:51,487 00:17:55,908 and also, will lend itself to a character searching for the truth. and also, will lend itself to a character searching for the truth.
237 00:17:55,992 00:17:57,493 - You know? - Yeah. - You know? - Yeah.
238 00:17:58,494 00:18:03,165 This is all based on some real footage that CBS News had of a riot. This is all based on some real footage that CBS News had of a riot.
239 00:18:03,249 00:18:05,418 People were... People were...
240 00:18:06,335 00:18:07,962 In our film, they want water. In our film, they want water.
241 00:18:08,045 00:18:11,674 But I think, in actuality, they were out of gasoline. But I think, in actuality, they were out of gasoline.
242 00:18:12,341 00:18:16,804 And I remember looking at the source material, And I remember looking at the source material,
243 00:18:16,887 00:18:20,641 and there was this soldier who was just being overwhelmed by a group of people, and there was this soldier who was just being overwhelmed by a group of people,
244 00:18:20,725 00:18:23,102 and he just screamed at them to get back. and he just screamed at them to get back.
245 00:18:23,185 00:18:26,188 He said, "I'm trying to give you your freedom." He said, "I'm trying to give you your freedom."
246 00:18:26,272 00:18:31,152 These guys just are put in these really, really tricky situations These guys just are put in these really, really tricky situations
247 00:18:31,235 00:18:34,530 as this infrastructure, as this country, is crumbling, as this infrastructure, as this country, is crumbling,
248 00:18:34,614 00:18:38,534 and they're trying to manage these unmanageable situations. and they're trying to manage these unmanageable situations.
249 00:18:40,328 00:18:42,580 This is the Green Zone. This is the Green Zone.
250 00:18:44,206 00:18:46,334 Which is actually more like a brown zone in a way, Which is actually more like a brown zone in a way,
251 00:18:46,417 00:18:50,963 'cause it's so hot, but it's down by the river, 'cause it's so hot, but it's down by the river,
252 00:18:51,047 00:18:54,133 and then you get the Republican Palace, Saddam's former palace, and then you get the Republican Palace, Saddam's former palace,
253 00:18:54,216 00:18:57,595 which was the headquarters for the Coalition. which was the headquarters for the Coalition.
254 00:18:57,720 00:19:03,392 This is a scene I always loved, because you get your different arguments This is a scene I always loved, because you get your different arguments
255 00:19:03,517 00:19:08,606 from the DOD and from the CIA. from the DOD and from the CIA.
256 00:19:08,731 00:19:15,029 And this lifer, who's a Middle East specialist And this lifer, who's a Middle East specialist
257 00:19:15,112 00:19:18,115 who nobody's listening to, who has a pretty good read who nobody's listening to, who has a pretty good read
258 00:19:18,240 00:19:20,326 on what's gonna happen and what's gonna go wrong on what's gonna happen and what's gonna go wrong
259 00:19:20,409 00:19:22,995 and understands the culture and speaks the language, and understands the culture and speaks the language,
260 00:19:23,079 00:19:28,125 versus the people who didn't really rate those guys, versus the people who didn't really rate those guys,
261 00:19:28,250 00:19:30,711 and felt like they... and felt like they...
262 00:19:32,254 00:19:37,927 They were so glacial about their vetting that nothing ever got done. They were so glacial about their vetting that nothing ever got done.
263 00:19:40,096 00:19:45,059 And that's who Kinnear represents, obviously, the neocon argument. And that's who Kinnear represents, obviously, the neocon argument.
264 00:19:45,935 00:19:48,396 And this is a sort of scene that... And this is a sort of scene that...
265 00:19:49,939 00:19:54,777 The book's chock-full of these sorts of encounters, isn't it, Rajiv's book? The book's chock-full of these sorts of encounters, isn't it, Rajiv's book?
266 00:19:56,112 00:20:01,617 There's an intense amount of idealism in the Poundstone character, which was present. There's an intense amount of idealism in the Poundstone character, which was present.
267 00:20:01,742 00:20:05,246 I don't think you can dismiss the quality of idealism I don't think you can dismiss the quality of idealism
268 00:20:05,329 00:20:09,542 that led people like Poundstone to really, truly believe that led people like Poundstone to really, truly believe
269 00:20:09,625 00:20:12,628 that you could come to Iraq and transform the place. that you could come to Iraq and transform the place.
270 00:20:12,753 00:20:17,633 The goals, the ambitions were not themselves unworthy. The goals, the ambitions were not themselves unworthy.
271 00:20:17,758 00:20:21,095 The problem is they had fatally misunderstood The problem is they had fatally misunderstood
272 00:20:21,178 00:20:27,101 or fatally underestimated the extent to which the country was absolutely destroyed. or fatally underestimated the extent to which the country was absolutely destroyed.
273 00:20:27,184 00:20:30,354 And also, as Brendan's character explains, And also, as Brendan's character explains,
274 00:20:30,479 00:20:34,442 the extent to which the simmering ethnic tensions the extent to which the simmering ethnic tensions
275 00:20:34,525 00:20:38,654 under the surface of the country would, once Saddam was removed, under the surface of the country would, once Saddam was removed,
276 00:20:38,779 00:20:42,742 come roaring to the surface and absolutely destroy it. come roaring to the surface and absolutely destroy it.
277 00:20:42,825 00:20:49,290 And so around that absolute, central And so around that absolute, central
278 00:20:52,168 00:20:58,299 policy choice, whether to take a pragmatic decision, policy choice, whether to take a pragmatic decision,
279 00:20:58,382 00:21:03,095 which is essentially what Brendan's character's suggesting, or not, which is essentially what Brendan's character's suggesting, or not,
280 00:21:03,179 00:21:05,848 - our story rests, doesn't it? - Yeah. - our story rests, doesn't it? - Yeah.
281 00:21:07,349 00:21:09,939 And it looks like we're giving him a perfect argument, in hindsight, And it looks like we're giving him a perfect argument, in hindsight,
282 00:21:10,019 00:21:13,522 but the reality is that was those guys' argument. but the reality is that was those guys' argument.
283 00:21:14,523 00:21:15,858 For sure. For sure.
284 00:21:38,714 00:21:44,178 So this is Khalid Abdalla, just an absolutely fantastic young actor So this is Khalid Abdalla, just an absolutely fantastic young actor
285 00:21:45,763 00:21:47,014 who's great in this movie. who's great in this movie.
286 00:21:47,097 00:21:50,893 And his introduction here kind of kicks off... And his introduction here kind of kicks off...
287 00:21:52,770 00:21:54,688 Really, really kicks it off. Really, really kicks it off.
288 00:21:54,772 00:21:58,067 Here's Yigal coming in, who's, again, just a wonderful actor Here's Yigal coming in, who's, again, just a wonderful actor
289 00:21:58,192 00:22:01,195 who plays General Al Rawi, who plays General Al Rawi,
290 00:22:02,696 00:22:05,491 who's a very complicated character, who's a very complicated character,
291 00:22:05,574 00:22:09,829 who we'll get to know better as the movie goes on. who we'll get to know better as the movie goes on.
292 00:22:09,912 00:22:12,248 Yigal, Arabic is not his first language, Yigal, Arabic is not his first language,
293 00:22:12,373 00:22:17,169 and he actually, I think, very wisely chose to say less. and he actually, I think, very wisely chose to say less.
294 00:22:17,253 00:22:20,214 - But he's got such a presence. - Fantastic, yeah. - But he's got such a presence. - Fantastic, yeah.
295 00:22:20,297 00:22:24,552 - -Power is a very hard thing to play, isn't it? - Yeah, yeah. - -Power is a very hard thing to play, isn't it? - Yeah, yeah.
296 00:22:24,635 00:22:26,555 - Unless you have it, and he just has it. - Yeah. - Unless you have it, and he just has it. - Yeah.
297 00:22:26,637 00:22:29,265 Which you'll see. Which you'll see.
298 00:22:29,390 00:22:33,143 I remember, he said to me in this scene, actually, I remember, he said to me in this scene, actually,
299 00:22:33,269 00:22:39,900 he said, "The key to playing power is that everybody else has gotta play the power." he said, "The key to playing power is that everybody else has gotta play the power."
300 00:22:39,984 00:22:41,489 - Right. Right. - Do you know what I mean? - Right. Right. - Do you know what I mean?
301 00:22:41,569 00:22:44,613 Which I thought was a very, very wise thing to say. Which I thought was a very, very wise thing to say.
302 00:22:44,738 00:22:45,739 Right. Right.
303 00:22:45,823 00:22:49,243 And then you can just be. You're not playing it, you know? And then you can just be. You're not playing it, you know?
304 00:22:49,326 00:22:50,703 It's a kind of classic thing It's a kind of classic thing
305 00:22:50,786 00:22:55,457 that you'd think it would be the reverse as an actor, wouldn't you? that you'd think it would be the reverse as an actor, wouldn't you?
306 00:22:55,583 00:23:00,546 Now here's our hero, who we've established isn't too happy. Now here's our hero, who we've established isn't too happy.
307 00:23:00,629 00:23:02,256 He's been pushed back once. He's been pushed back once.
308 00:23:02,339 00:23:05,718 He's now digging at a soccer field in a public square. He's now digging at a soccer field in a public square.
309 00:23:05,801 00:23:09,305 This is clearly not going anywhere. This is clearly not going anywhere.
310 00:23:11,974 00:23:14,685 And there's a little scuffle going on. And there's a little scuffle going on.
311 00:23:15,936 00:23:18,230 This is a very important moment in the film, I think, This is a very important moment in the film, I think,
312 00:23:18,314 00:23:21,400 because we've by now established because we've by now established
313 00:23:21,483 00:23:26,196 that Miller's got a noble mission, find the WMD. that Miller's got a noble mission, find the WMD.
314 00:23:26,322 00:23:30,993 They're not there. He's not finding them. He's become frustrated. They're not there. He's not finding them. He's become frustrated.
315 00:23:31,118 00:23:34,330 He's asked questions upstairs and got no answers. He's asked questions upstairs and got no answers.
316 00:23:34,997 00:23:37,416 And now, of course, because this is a thriller, And now, of course, because this is a thriller,
317 00:23:37,499 00:23:40,628 he's gonna start to make his own moves. he's gonna start to make his own moves.
318 00:23:40,711 00:23:46,842 This whole sequence, the arrival of Al Rawi at the generals' meeting, This whole sequence, the arrival of Al Rawi at the generals' meeting,
319 00:23:46,967 00:23:52,431 which I felt had a lovely sort of gangsters'-meeting-type flavor. which I felt had a lovely sort of gangsters'-meeting-type flavor.
320 00:23:52,514 00:23:55,434 And the arrival of Freddy with the information to Miller, And the arrival of Freddy with the information to Miller,
321 00:23:55,517 00:23:58,854 that he's seen something happening a mile away, that he's seen something happening a mile away,
322 00:24:00,147 00:24:04,151 you just know he's gonna provoke a confrontation you just know he's gonna provoke a confrontation
323 00:24:04,234 00:24:09,114 and the film's gonna step up to the next level of intensity and the film's gonna step up to the next level of intensity
324 00:24:09,198 00:24:14,244 and the next section of the story. and the next section of the story.
325 00:24:14,370 00:24:20,834 We should probably talk at this stage about Chris Rouse, We should probably talk at this stage about Chris Rouse,
326 00:24:22,378 00:24:28,467 who's cut my last four, our three, films, who's cut my last four, our three, films,
327 00:24:28,550 00:24:31,303 and played a central role in all of them. and played a central role in all of them.
328 00:24:31,387 00:24:37,977 The way that he choreographed these two stories, The way that he choreographed these two stories,
329 00:24:38,060 00:24:42,940 the story of the meeting, which is very important, thematically, the story of the meeting, which is very important, thematically,
330 00:24:43,065 00:24:48,153 and conveys that sort of atmosphere of a bunch of generals, and conveys that sort of atmosphere of a bunch of generals,
331 00:24:48,237 00:24:53,283 still very powerful, still very dangerous, but, essentially, wanted men on the run, still very powerful, still very dangerous, but, essentially, wanted men on the run,
332 00:24:53,409 00:24:56,829 and the information reaching Miller, and the information reaching Miller,
333 00:24:56,912 00:25:01,667 and Miller deciding to kind of drive his men into life, and Miller deciding to kind of drive his men into life,
334 00:25:01,750 00:25:05,629 then this unfolding confrontation, gives you, then this unfolding confrontation, gives you,
335 00:25:05,754 00:25:09,008 I think, the thing that I love in movies, I think, the thing that I love in movies,
336 00:25:09,091 00:25:13,762 which is not one piece of action, which is not one piece of action,
337 00:25:13,887 00:25:19,893 but the sustained feeling for, hopefully, 10 or 15 minutes but the sustained feeling for, hopefully, 10 or 15 minutes
338 00:25:19,977 00:25:22,187 that the film's unfolding in real time that the film's unfolding in real time
339 00:25:22,271 00:25:28,360 and driving you onwards toward some kind of impending drama. and driving you onwards toward some kind of impending drama.
340 00:25:28,444 00:25:34,241 That, I think, is very, very, very watchable, ultimately. That, I think, is very, very, very watchable, ultimately.
341 00:25:34,324 00:25:37,036 This, on a personal note, was a huge day for me, This, on a personal note, was a huge day for me,
342 00:25:37,119 00:25:40,372 because this was the first time because this was the first time
343 00:25:40,456 00:25:44,501 I really stepped up with the guys. I really stepped up with the guys.
344 00:25:44,626 00:25:49,423 And this guy who just jumped off right there, Mike Dwyer, he's a Marine, And this guy who just jumped off right there, Mike Dwyer, he's a Marine,
345 00:25:49,506 00:25:53,635 saw, probably, the most stuff of any of the guys who were there. saw, probably, the most stuff of any of the guys who were there.
346 00:25:53,761 00:25:59,224 Two very, very active tours in Iraq. Two very, very active tours in Iraq.
347 00:25:59,308 00:26:02,561 And in this sequence, And in this sequence,
348 00:26:02,644 00:26:03,729 Paul suggested that Adam, Paul suggested that Adam,
349 00:26:03,812 00:26:06,315 who was a sniper in the National Guard, question me. who was a sniper in the National Guard, question me.
350 00:26:06,440 00:26:07,858 Adam's there in the foreground. Adam's there in the foreground.
351 00:26:07,983 00:26:10,235 "How do we know you're not leading us into an ambush?" "How do we know you're not leading us into an ambush?"
352 00:26:10,319 00:26:13,447 "We don't. Get your fucking game face on," is what I say. "We don't. Get your fucking game face on," is what I say.
353 00:26:13,530 00:26:17,409 And that was what Mike, in the background there, said to me. And that was what Mike, in the background there, said to me.
354 00:26:17,493 00:26:22,331 I saw him when Adam questioned me, I saw him get very uncomfortable. I saw him when Adam questioned me, I saw him get very uncomfortable.
355 00:26:22,456 00:26:24,792 And I took him aside, and I said, "What is it?" And I took him aside, and I said, "What is it?"
356 00:26:24,875 00:26:29,588 And he said, in no uncertain terms, that, "That kind of insubordination And he said, in no uncertain terms, that, "That kind of insubordination
357 00:26:29,671 00:26:33,425 "when we were out here is absolutely unacceptable." "when we were out here is absolutely unacceptable."
358 00:26:33,509 00:26:35,597 And he said, "If I have a problem with your leadership," And he said, "If I have a problem with your leadership,"
359 00:26:35,677 00:26:37,717 "you're gonna hear about it before we get out here." "you're gonna hear about it before we get out here."
360 00:26:37,805 00:26:43,560 "But once we're out here, I am 100% doing what you tell me to do." "But once we're out here, I am 100% doing what you tell me to do."
361 00:26:43,685 00:26:47,064 "And if anybody says differently, then they need to get their fucking game face on." "And if anybody says differently, then they need to get their fucking game face on."
362 00:26:47,189 00:26:49,441 And so that was a big moment for me, And so that was a big moment for me,
363 00:26:49,525 00:26:53,737 because I didn't tell Adam I was gonna say that to him. because I didn't tell Adam I was gonna say that to him.
364 00:26:53,862 00:26:57,825 And I just said it, kind of sucked up my courage as an actor And I just said it, kind of sucked up my courage as an actor
365 00:26:57,908 00:27:02,246 and said to this veteran to get his game face on, and said to this veteran to get his game face on,
366 00:27:02,371 00:27:05,374 and his reaction was very honest, and his reaction was very honest,
367 00:27:05,499 00:27:09,628 and he suddenly just looked like a soldier who was kind of being put back in line. and he suddenly just looked like a soldier who was kind of being put back in line.
368 00:27:09,711 00:27:12,673 So it was a big, very helpful... So it was a big, very helpful...
369 00:27:12,756 00:27:17,845 Again, when you have 30 technical advisers, you get some really great stuff. Again, when you have 30 technical advisers, you get some really great stuff.
370 00:27:18,053 00:27:19,179 Yeah. Yeah.
371 00:27:24,685 00:27:27,437 I love the atmosphere in this meeting, and these. .. I love the atmosphere in this meeting, and these. ..
372 00:27:29,064 00:27:32,234 Quite a lot of these guys in this meeting Quite a lot of these guys in this meeting
373 00:27:32,359 00:27:36,238 were Iraqis in exile. were Iraqis in exile.
374 00:27:36,405 00:27:38,699 This man here... This man here...
375 00:27:40,534 00:27:42,202 What if they don't contact us? What if they don't contact us?
376 00:27:42,286 00:27:46,540 ...very fine Moroccan actor. ...very fine Moroccan actor.
377 00:27:46,915 00:27:48,750 ...We Will fight. ...We Will fight.
378 00:27:50,460 00:27:53,213 And Said, of course, right there. He's terrific. And Said, of course, right there. He's terrific.
379 00:28:08,478 00:28:10,814 So now we got some momentum. We got our guys. So now we got some momentum. We got our guys.
380 00:28:11,565 00:28:14,151 Chris Rouse is starting to just... Chris Rouse is starting to just...
381 00:28:14,902 00:28:17,446 Yeah, we talked about this a lot when we were cutting this film, Yeah, we talked about this a lot when we were cutting this film,
382 00:28:17,571 00:28:23,076 that you didn't wanna let this unfold too fast. that you didn't wanna let this unfold too fast.
383 00:28:23,493 00:28:28,790 You know what I mean? It was a question of just steadily turning the screw. You know what I mean? It was a question of just steadily turning the screw.
384 00:28:28,957 00:28:32,711 And I've always felt that from the soccer field, from Freddy coming up, it just... Yeah. And I've always felt that from the soccer field, from Freddy coming up, it just... Yeah.
385 00:28:32,794 00:28:35,172 It's exactly right. You're steadily turning the screw, It's exactly right. You're steadily turning the screw,
386 00:28:35,297 00:28:38,091 all the way through the foot chase in the alley. all the way through the foot chase in the alley.
387 00:28:38,175 00:28:43,972 It just really... You're short of breath through this whole thing. It just really... You're short of breath through this whole thing.
388 00:28:44,264 00:28:46,308 Now, these guys all... I remember working this day. Now, these guys all... I remember working this day.
389 00:28:46,433 00:28:49,353 Monty said to me, "You're gonna see what these guys really do." Monty said to me, "You're gonna see what these guys really do."
390 00:28:49,478 00:28:51,146 He said, "They've been trying to act. He said, "They've been trying to act.
391 00:28:52,022 00:28:55,859 "If you wanna see 'em do what they do, watch 'em hit a house." "If you wanna see 'em do what they do, watch 'em hit a house."
392 00:28:55,984 00:28:59,988 And we worked very, very carefully on... And we worked very, very carefully on...
393 00:29:00,113 00:29:04,034 Well, they worked with me on exactly what I would do, because I love that stuff. Well, they worked with me on exactly what I would do, because I love that stuff.
394 00:29:05,118 00:29:09,623 And every unit does it slightly differently. And every unit does it slightly differently.
395 00:29:10,666 00:29:14,169 First guy goes left, second guy goes right, third guy goes long, that kind of thing. First guy goes left, second guy goes right, third guy goes long, that kind of thing.
396 00:29:15,963 00:29:22,177 I just went to school, basically, and these guys showed me all this stuff, I just went to school, basically, and these guys showed me all this stuff,
397 00:29:23,303 00:29:26,139 and it looks really, really good, I think. and it looks really, really good, I think.
398 00:29:26,306 00:29:30,936 I think it looks good because they're all moving exactly as they would. I think it looks good because they're all moving exactly as they would.
399 00:29:31,019 00:29:33,689 And now we're going to get on the door. And now we're going to get on the door.
400 00:29:38,151 00:29:43,365 - It's beautifully cut, this section. - Yes. - It's beautifully cut, this section. - Yes.
401 00:29:43,490 00:29:45,450 Just introducing the... Just introducing the...
402 00:29:45,534 00:29:49,538 - Now you've get children in there. - Yeah, raises the stakes of the encounter - Now you've get children in there. - Yeah, raises the stakes of the encounter
403 00:29:50,497 00:29:52,666 without feeling sentimental. without feeling sentimental.
404 00:29:54,001 00:29:55,043 There goes Dwyer. There goes Dwyer.
405 00:29:57,754 00:29:59,006 On the fucking ground, now! On the fucking ground, now!
406 00:29:59,089 00:30:00,674 I'm third. I go long. I'm third. I go long.
407 00:30:03,385 00:30:06,722 I remember Dwyer would have butt-stroked that guy, remember that? I remember Dwyer would have butt-stroked that guy, remember that?
408 00:30:09,683 00:30:11,184 Keating, on the stairs up! Keating, on the stairs up!
409 00:30:14,730 00:30:16,815 That's just great, his hand up there, did you see? That's just great, his hand up there, did you see?
410 00:30:16,898 00:30:19,067 His sign that the getaway car's coming. His sign that the getaway car's coming.
411 00:30:22,070 00:30:27,034 Because those guys are military people, you know, they're game guys. Because those guys are military people, you know, they're game guys.
412 00:30:27,117 00:30:28,535 They know what they're doing. They know what they're doing.
413 00:30:29,703 00:30:33,874 You just want that little moment, obviously, of eye lock between you and Al Rawi. You just want that little moment, obviously, of eye lock between you and Al Rawi.
414 00:30:39,880 00:30:41,214 Look out! Look out!
415 00:30:47,387 00:30:49,264 - Get ready to hook right. - Hook right! - Get ready to hook right. - Hook right!
416 00:30:49,389 00:30:53,685 It was interesting, this whole section, and it's a long, long section, It was interesting, this whole section, and it's a long, long section,
417 00:30:53,769 00:30:56,438 it must be nearly 15 minutes of the movie, it must be nearly 15 minutes of the movie,
418 00:30:56,563 00:31:01,777 the section that begins with you at the soccer field, the section that begins with you at the soccer field,
419 00:31:02,778 00:31:04,613 introduction of Freddy, introduction of Freddy,
420 00:31:05,947 00:31:11,495 the meeting at Al Rawi's, the confrontation in this section here the meeting at Al Rawi's, the confrontation in this section here
421 00:31:11,912 00:31:16,416 and then afterwards at the soccer field. and then afterwards at the soccer field.
422 00:31:17,918 00:31:21,004 I remember when Brian wrote the first draft, I remember when Brian wrote the first draft,
423 00:31:21,129 00:31:26,510 that section, although we changed it in many ways that section, although we changed it in many ways
424 00:31:26,635 00:31:29,388 in terms of the way we performed it... in terms of the way we performed it...
425 00:31:29,471 00:31:34,476 But essentially, that was... I remember reading that. But essentially, that was... I remember reading that.
426 00:31:35,143 00:31:37,354 I was actually out in Los Angeles finishing Ultimatum, I was actually out in Los Angeles finishing Ultimatum,
427 00:31:37,479 00:31:42,818 "and I remember reading that 20 pages and going, "That's bang on. "and I remember reading that 20 pages and going, "That's bang on.
428 00:31:42,943 00:31:49,574 "That is tonally, and in terms of the moral ebb and flow..." "That is tonally, and in terms of the moral ebb and flow..."
429 00:31:49,658 00:31:52,911 Cause you're not... You know, this isn't a movie where you're saying, Cause you're not... You know, this isn't a movie where you're saying,
430 00:31:52,994 00:31:56,415 "Oh, look at those terrible American soldiers. Look what they're doing." "Oh, look at those terrible American soldiers. Look what they're doing."
431 00:31:56,498 00:31:57,624 You're not feeling that. You're not feeling that.
432 00:31:57,707 00:32:00,919 You're feeling that they're engaged in a righteous cause, You're feeling that they're engaged in a righteous cause,
433 00:32:01,002 00:32:02,591 and they absolutely believe that they are, and they absolutely believe that they are,
434 00:32:02,671 00:32:04,965 and they're behaving according to procedure, and they're behaving according to procedure,
435 00:32:05,048 00:32:08,760 but the splintering in terms of what's happening on the other side, but the splintering in terms of what's happening on the other side,
436 00:32:08,844 00:32:12,431 and Freddy's uncomfortable with what's happening, and Freddy's uncomfortable with what's happening,
437 00:32:12,514 00:32:16,143 and Said there being questioned, and Al Rawi getting out the back door... and Said there being questioned, and Al Rawi getting out the back door...
438 00:32:16,226 00:32:19,604 So it's got elements of straight thriller. So it's got elements of straight thriller.
439 00:32:19,688 00:32:21,940 It's got elements of reportage. It's got elements of reportage.
440 00:32:22,023 00:32:24,234 And I thought it was... And I thought it was...
441 00:32:24,359 00:32:26,236 But look at how he says his name there, too. But look at how he says his name there, too.
442 00:32:26,361 00:32:30,157 I mean, it's got those elements of these cultures clashing, too. I mean, it's got those elements of these cultures clashing, too.
443 00:32:30,240 00:32:31,366 Yeah. Yeah.
444 00:32:31,825 00:32:36,621 You know, you've got the relationship between Freddy and Said there, You know, you've got the relationship between Freddy and Said there,
445 00:32:36,705 00:32:39,207 clearly from two different classes. clearly from two different classes.
446 00:32:39,332 00:32:41,501 - One formerly in the master class... - Yeah. - One formerly in the master class... - Yeah.
447 00:32:41,585 00:32:44,921 ...in the powerful class, ...in the powerful class,
448 00:32:45,046 00:32:47,799 who still has all that pride, who still has all that pride,
449 00:32:47,883 00:32:52,304 and you see just the way he looks at Khalid, you know, it just... and you see just the way he looks at Khalid, you know, it just...
450 00:32:52,387 00:32:54,347 Hey, Michaels, do you have that deck of cards? Hey, Michaels, do you have that deck of cards?
451 00:32:54,431 00:32:56,892 - Yes. - Give me the Jack of Clubs. - Yes. - Give me the Jack of Clubs.
452 00:32:57,350 00:32:59,769 Is that the guy? Was that the guy that went out the back? Is that the guy? Was that the guy that went out the back?
453 00:33:00,353 00:33:04,107 It's tricky, normally, 'cause I do these... I've never done one with you, It's tricky, normally, 'cause I do these... I've never done one with you,
454 00:33:04,232 00:33:06,776 of this kind. of this kind.
455 00:33:06,902 00:33:11,823 But I must say, I thought you were fantastic in these scenes, But I must say, I thought you were fantastic in these scenes,
456 00:33:12,115 00:33:18,997 because what it is, is, you're starting from a position in this film with Miller, because what it is, is, you're starting from a position in this film with Miller,
457 00:33:19,331 00:33:22,250 where he's, in a sense, doing what he's told. where he's, in a sense, doing what he's told.
458 00:33:23,752 00:33:30,467 And you've got to, in terms of building the character of Miller, And you've got to, in terms of building the character of Miller,
459 00:33:31,009 00:33:33,762 make his steps feel believable make his steps feel believable
460 00:33:33,845 00:33:38,350 as he moves off on what's essentially a conspiracy-thriller journey. as he moves off on what's essentially a conspiracy-thriller journey.
461 00:33:39,142 00:33:44,105 And I thought that hinge, that encounter, all this stuff here, And I thought that hinge, that encounter, all this stuff here,
462 00:33:45,190 00:33:48,193 it was outstanding, 'cause you're utterly with Miller now. it was outstanding, 'cause you're utterly with Miller now.
463 00:33:48,276 00:33:50,445 I think you feel him... I think you feel him...
464 00:33:50,946 00:33:52,614 Roger that, Chief. Roger that, Chief.
465 00:33:53,114 00:33:54,950 ...out of this landscape, starting to go, ...out of this landscape, starting to go,
466 00:33:55,033 00:34:00,163 "Well, hang on a second, I've got my chance here of an answer, and I'm gonna take it." "Well, hang on a second, I've got my chance here of an answer, and I'm gonna take it."
467 00:34:01,164 00:34:03,667 And in a way, it's a tricky thing for you all the time, And in a way, it's a tricky thing for you all the time,
468 00:34:03,792 00:34:08,129 'cause you were having to be in charge, but, in a sense, out of your depth, 'cause you were having to be in charge, but, in a sense, out of your depth,
469 00:34:08,213 00:34:09,297 all at the same time. all at the same time.
470 00:34:09,381 00:34:12,425 Do you know what I mean? Which is a very, very tricky thing to do Do you know what I mean? Which is a very, very tricky thing to do
471 00:34:12,509 00:34:16,972 when you're the central character in a movie, where you've got to be strong, obviously. when you're the central character in a movie, where you've got to be strong, obviously.
472 00:34:17,472 00:34:22,143 I mean, it's true in any conspiracy thriller. How do you thread that needle? I mean, it's true in any conspiracy thriller. How do you thread that needle?
473 00:34:22,477 00:34:24,774 He say only General Mohammed Al Rawi, he know about these things. He say only General Mohammed Al Rawi, he know about these things.
474 00:34:24,854 00:34:28,733 Well, for all the actors, the way that these scenes were constructed, Well, for all the actors, the way that these scenes were constructed,
475 00:34:28,817 00:34:31,194 we'd improvise we'd improvise
476 00:34:31,319 00:34:36,032 or we would augment what was on the page, basically, or we would augment what was on the page, basically,
477 00:34:36,157 00:34:37,659 and then you could cut it back. and then you could cut it back.
478 00:34:37,742 00:34:40,537 But what it did was, it gave us all the freedom But what it did was, it gave us all the freedom
479 00:34:40,662 00:34:43,456 having one camera down and when you roll out, picking it up, having one camera down and when you roll out, picking it up,
480 00:34:43,540 00:34:47,085 and so the scene never stops, so we could go for half an hour and so the scene never stops, so we could go for half an hour
481 00:34:47,544 00:34:50,922 and do four or five takes in half an hour, and it'd be half a day's work, and do four or five takes in half an hour, and it'd be half a day's work,
482 00:34:51,006 00:34:56,595 but we've got stuff where we can get in our own ways as actors but we've got stuff where we can get in our own ways as actors
483 00:34:56,678 00:34:59,598 by planning moments, by planning moments,
484 00:34:59,681 00:35:04,185 and trying to indicate what... Try to help tell the story. and trying to indicate what... Try to help tell the story.
485 00:35:04,519 00:35:08,607 But these were just playing these situations as authentically as possible But these were just playing these situations as authentically as possible
486 00:35:09,524 00:35:12,027 with these incredibly high stakes. with these incredibly high stakes.
487 00:35:12,944 00:35:15,113 It's always the thing, people always sort of somehow It's always the thing, people always sort of somehow
488 00:35:15,196 00:35:16,865 view the writing process... view the writing process...
489 00:35:16,948 00:35:20,952 I think, again, for people watching this DVD, somewhere there's a distinction I think, again, for people watching this DVD, somewhere there's a distinction
490 00:35:21,036 00:35:24,581 between the writing process and, say, the improvisatory process, between the writing process and, say, the improvisatory process,
491 00:35:24,706 00:35:27,167 as somewhere that they're contradictory. as somewhere that they're contradictory.
492 00:35:27,250 00:35:30,920 And in fact, we've all worked on this. And in fact, we've all worked on this.
493 00:35:31,046 00:35:34,424 They're not... What you ideally want on a film, They're not... What you ideally want on a film,
494 00:35:34,549 00:35:39,179 certainly on my films, anyway, is a team certainly on my films, anyway, is a team
495 00:35:39,262 00:35:43,725 where the goal is to get to the finished film, where the goal is to get to the finished film,
496 00:35:43,808 00:35:49,314 and along the way, you're deploying various techniques and along the way, you're deploying various techniques
497 00:35:49,397 00:35:51,608 to try and arrive at the truth of it. to try and arrive at the truth of it.
498 00:35:51,733 00:35:56,404 One of the techniques is the writing, the process of writing on the page. One of the techniques is the writing, the process of writing on the page.
499 00:35:56,821 00:35:58,948 And that will give you certain elements. And that will give you certain elements.
500 00:35:59,074 00:36:02,243 It may give you quite fully-formed scenes. It may give you quite fully-formed scenes.
501 00:36:02,577 00:36:05,997 It might give you fully-formed scenarios It might give you fully-formed scenarios
502 00:36:06,081 00:36:08,625 that you can then use to spin off and improvise, that you can then use to spin off and improvise,
503 00:36:08,750 00:36:11,419 or it might give you something that doesn't quite work or it might give you something that doesn't quite work
504 00:36:11,503 00:36:14,881 that on the day you can challenge and arrive at something else. that on the day you can challenge and arrive at something else.
505 00:36:14,964 00:36:17,842 But what you're looking for when you make a film But what you're looking for when you make a film
506 00:36:17,926 00:36:23,723 is the engagement of all your creative stakeholders is the engagement of all your creative stakeholders
507 00:36:23,807 00:36:27,435 to try and find "it," whatever "it" is. to try and find "it," whatever "it" is.
508 00:36:27,519 00:36:29,729 And it's not one or the other, And it's not one or the other,
509 00:36:29,813 00:36:33,858 it's that the writer, as ever, has, it's that the writer, as ever, has,
510 00:36:35,110 00:36:38,446 in a sense, the heroic job of going first and alone, do you know what I mean? in a sense, the heroic job of going first and alone, do you know what I mean?
511 00:36:38,530 00:36:39,739 Down the tunnel. Down the tunnel.
512 00:36:39,823 00:36:45,453 We all get to go later and can either build on that, use it, We all get to go later and can either build on that, use it,
513 00:36:45,995 00:36:50,291 challenge it and often reinterpret it. challenge it and often reinterpret it.
514 00:36:50,625 00:36:52,168 It's not either/or. It's not either/or.
515 00:36:53,962 00:36:58,425 And, particularly in a situation where you have all these guys, And, particularly in a situation where you have all these guys,
516 00:36:58,508 00:37:02,595 - you can get to authenticity really quickly... - Yeah. - you can get to authenticity really quickly... - Yeah.
517 00:37:02,679 00:37:06,850 ...with guys in a way that if you put me in a room for a year, ...with guys in a way that if you put me in a room for a year,
518 00:37:07,475 00:37:11,521 I'd never be able to write some of the stuff that these guys do, I'd never be able to write some of the stuff that these guys do,
519 00:37:11,646 00:37:13,777 just because of who they are and the experiences they've had, just because of who they are and the experiences they've had,
520 00:37:13,857 00:37:16,651 and they know how some of these things go. and they know how some of these things go.
521 00:37:19,487 00:37:21,948 Here's Jason Isaacs, just, again, terrific. Here's Jason Isaacs, just, again, terrific.
522 00:37:22,031 00:37:26,119 I really felt lucky to be in this movie with these actors. I really felt lucky to be in this movie with these actors.
523 00:37:26,202 00:37:30,165 Every scene I had was with somebody terrific. Every scene I had was with somebody terrific.
524 00:37:36,588 00:37:43,052 Jason's an old friend of mine, and actually had a huge impact... Jason's an old friend of mine, and actually had a huge impact...
525 00:37:43,178 00:37:44,307 I was talking about it the other day, actually. I was talking about it the other day, actually.
526 00:37:44,387 00:37:48,600 He actually had a huge impact on me as a director, Jason did. You know that? He actually had a huge impact on me as a director, Jason did. You know that?
527 00:37:48,683 00:37:51,770 Because I worked with him in Britain many years ago on a television film, Because I worked with him in Britain many years ago on a television film,
528 00:37:51,853 00:37:57,859 and he was really the first actor that I ever really felt comfortable enough and he was really the first actor that I ever really felt comfortable enough
529 00:37:58,735 00:38:05,033 to explain what the insecurities you feel as a director, to explain what the insecurities you feel as a director,
530 00:38:05,533 00:38:08,787 particularly when you're a young director working with actors, and vice versa... particularly when you're a young director working with actors, and vice versa...
531 00:38:08,870 00:38:12,999 And, in a way, it helped me to be... And, in a way, it helped me to be...
532 00:38:13,082 00:38:16,753 My relationship with him when we made that film made me much more confident My relationship with him when we made that film made me much more confident
533 00:38:16,878 00:38:19,547 in terms of understanding in terms of understanding
534 00:38:21,549 00:38:26,137 what actors wanted from a director. Do you know what I mean? what actors wanted from a director. Do you know what I mean?
535 00:38:26,221 00:38:27,263 Right. Right. Right. Right.
536 00:38:27,430 00:38:28,556 Stop! Stop!
537 00:38:29,724 00:38:30,892 Stop! Stop!
538 00:38:31,059 00:38:33,520 Well, now we're rocking out. It's pushing on. Well, now we're rocking out. It's pushing on.
539 00:38:33,603 00:38:39,108 And this is still this kind of breathless... Starting at the soccer field up until now. And this is still this kind of breathless... Starting at the soccer field up until now.
540 00:38:39,567 00:38:41,945 It doesn't kind of rest until, bang, now. It doesn't kind of rest until, bang, now.
541 00:38:42,070 00:38:44,447 Freddy's got only one leg. Freddy's got only one leg.
542 00:38:44,572 00:38:45,573 The scene stops. The scene stops.
543 00:38:45,657 00:38:47,325 What the fuck! Why are you running? What the fuck! Why are you running?
544 00:38:47,408 00:38:50,119 - Why you are chasing me? - Give me the book. - Why you are chasing me? - Give me the book.
545 00:38:50,245 00:38:51,246 Give me the fucking book! Give me the fucking book!
546 00:38:51,329 00:38:55,792 Now I thought this was a brilliant scene, Now I thought this was a brilliant scene,
547 00:38:55,917 00:38:59,546 a brilliant scene that I think everybody involved, a brilliant scene that I think everybody involved,
548 00:38:59,629 00:39:02,674 I mean, obviously, the two of you, the guys around, I mean, obviously, the two of you, the guys around,
549 00:39:02,757 00:39:08,263 but you take something very, very hard here, which is the prosthetic leg. but you take something very, very hard here, which is the prosthetic leg.
550 00:39:08,596 00:39:12,725 You've suddenly abruptly stopped after a huge amount of chasing, You've suddenly abruptly stopped after a huge amount of chasing,
551 00:39:12,809 00:39:16,729 and you've essentially got to turn a very tight corner here, and you've essentially got to turn a very tight corner here,
552 00:39:16,813 00:39:19,399 because you're wanting to get away. because you're wanting to get away.
553 00:39:19,482 00:39:22,235 You're in a hostile place. You're in an alleyway. You're in a hostile place. You're in an alleyway.
554 00:39:22,318 00:39:24,404 You're a professional soldier. What do you do? You're a professional soldier. What do you do?
555 00:39:24,487 00:39:28,324 But somehow, we've got to get this scene going and he's talking about the car, But somehow, we've got to get this scene going and he's talking about the car,
556 00:39:28,449 00:39:33,121 and I thought it was absolutely, if I may say so, very, very... and I thought it was absolutely, if I may say so, very, very...
557 00:39:35,999 00:39:39,002 - A corner very well turned. - Well, it's Khalid's performance. - A corner very well turned. - Well, it's Khalid's performance.
558 00:39:40,628 00:39:44,173 - Because you believe that those guys stop. - Yeah. - Because you believe that those guys stop. - Yeah.
559 00:39:44,340 00:39:46,551 - And that he arrests you. - Yeah. Exactly. - And that he arrests you. - Yeah. Exactly.
560 00:39:46,968 00:39:49,929 Cause there's got to be something quite strong... Cause there's got to be something quite strong...
561 00:39:50,013 00:39:51,973 It's not just our hero stopping. It's not just our hero stopping.
562 00:39:52,056 00:39:53,645 As you see, all those other soldiers stop. As you see, all those other soldiers stop.
563 00:39:53,725 00:39:56,060 And, I mean, no one knew what he was gonna say there, And, I mean, no one knew what he was gonna say there,
564 00:39:56,144 00:39:58,980 and everyone stopped and listened to him. and everyone stopped and listened to him.
565 00:40:01,858 00:40:07,572 It's that thing, when you direct, you come to understand that... It's that thing, when you direct, you come to understand that...
566 00:40:07,989 00:40:10,617 First of all, when you direct, First of all, when you direct,
567 00:40:10,700 00:40:14,662 you're surrounded by people who do extraordinary things for you, you're surrounded by people who do extraordinary things for you,
568 00:40:14,746 00:40:19,500 whether it's the BOP or the sound man or the first AD. whether it's the BOP or the sound man or the first AD.
569 00:40:21,002 00:40:26,716 And they all solve a series of very particular problems for you, And they all solve a series of very particular problems for you,
570 00:40:26,841 00:40:31,137 but when you direct, you come to realize that it's the actor but when you direct, you come to realize that it's the actor
571 00:40:31,220 00:40:33,556 who can solve them all instantly. who can solve them all instantly.
572 00:40:33,681 00:40:37,477 The actor can move to the certain place to make the shot work, The actor can move to the certain place to make the shot work,
573 00:40:37,560 00:40:39,979 can say it in a certain way to make the line work, can say it in a certain way to make the line work,
574 00:40:40,063 00:40:43,900 can physically make it work so it can cut properly. can physically make it work so it can cut properly.
575 00:40:49,030 00:40:51,532 It's a thing, if you're a young director, It's a thing, if you're a young director,
576 00:40:53,868 00:40:59,290 you have to see the capacity for technical problem solving you have to see the capacity for technical problem solving
577 00:40:59,374 00:41:00,917 that acting can give you, that acting can give you,
578 00:41:01,042 00:41:02,797 rather than just performance, do you know what I mean? rather than just performance, do you know what I mean?
579 00:41:02,877 00:41:06,881 Cause, of course, that's what crews understand. Cause, of course, that's what crews understand.
580 00:41:06,965 00:41:09,717 They all realize that, which is why they are... They all realize that, which is why they are...
581 00:41:09,926 00:41:11,094 Let Bethel handle it, please. Let Bethel handle it, please.
582 00:41:11,219 00:41:12,348 No. Bethel can't see past the files... No. Bethel can't see past the files...
583 00:41:12,428 00:41:15,556 Like when your director asks you to do just a loop like that... Like when your director asks you to do just a loop like that...
584 00:41:15,640 00:41:16,849 Exactly. Exactly.
585 00:41:16,933 00:41:19,188 "Then you go, " You know what? I'm just gonna get a little more intense "Then you go, " You know what? I'm just gonna get a little more intense
586 00:41:19,268 00:41:20,348 "and act right through it." "and act right through it."
587 00:41:21,229 00:41:22,271 There you go. There you go.
588 00:41:22,397 00:41:25,525 But now I'm angry that I had to do the loop, so that's all real anger. But now I'm angry that I had to do the loop, so that's all real anger.
589 00:41:25,608 00:41:30,279 I know. I know. And you were a very, very, very good soldier for me there. I know. I know. And you were a very, very, very good soldier for me there.
590 00:41:30,780 00:41:33,825 What we're talking about is that if you look at that shot, What we're talking about is that if you look at that shot,
591 00:41:33,908 00:41:37,620 we had some necessary dialogue here, is the truth of it... we had some necessary dialogue here, is the truth of it...
592 00:41:37,745 00:41:42,417 - Right. - ...because we had to genuinely - Right. - ...because we had to genuinely
593 00:41:42,500 00:41:44,377 step the intensity of the character up. step the intensity of the character up.
594 00:41:44,460 00:41:46,587 He had to make a statement He had to make a statement
595 00:41:47,755 00:41:51,342 about what he was gonna do and why, about what he was gonna do and why,
596 00:41:51,426 00:41:54,429 and why he felt it necessary to continue off reservation, and why he felt it necessary to continue off reservation,
597 00:41:54,512 00:41:58,725 and it was very important, I think, for two reasons. and it was very important, I think, for two reasons.
598 00:41:58,808 00:42:05,356 It was important because we'd felt that this was not a film It was important because we'd felt that this was not a film
599 00:42:05,815 00:42:08,443 where you could have a personal scene where you could have a personal scene
600 00:42:10,111 00:42:12,405 about Miller's individual character. about Miller's individual character.
601 00:42:12,488 00:42:15,199 "In other words, " I'm going off reservation "In other words, " I'm going off reservation
602 00:42:15,283 00:42:19,579 "because my father brought me up in way 'X'" "because my father brought me up in way 'X'"
603 00:42:19,662 00:42:22,210 "or something happened to me five years ago that made me wanna do it." "or something happened to me five years ago that made me wanna do it."
604 00:42:22,290 00:42:24,087 It was important, I think for both of us, wasn't it, It was important, I think for both of us, wasn't it,
605 00:42:24,167 00:42:28,004 that Miller was just almost an everyman. that Miller was just almost an everyman.
606 00:42:28,212 00:42:32,675 He was doing what we all did, which is, by degrees He was doing what we all did, which is, by degrees
607 00:42:32,800 00:42:35,386 start to question what was being said to us. start to question what was being said to us.
608 00:42:35,470 00:42:38,267 Exactly. And we had had the conversation about that more personal angle, Exactly. And we had had the conversation about that more personal angle,
609 00:42:38,347 00:42:40,683 and we'd thought about that and kind of gone down that road and we'd thought about that and kind of gone down that road
610 00:42:40,808 00:42:45,605 just as an exercise, to think about what that could be, but you're right. just as an exercise, to think about what that could be, but you're right.
611 00:42:45,688 00:42:49,984 Ultimately, we came to the conclusion that that was absolutely wrong. Ultimately, we came to the conclusion that that was absolutely wrong.
612 00:42:50,526 00:42:53,279 He had to be asking the fundamental question. He had to be asking the fundamental question.
613 00:42:53,362 00:42:57,784 Yeah. And he had to state it clearly, but we were there, Yeah. And he had to state it clearly, but we were there,
614 00:42:57,867 00:43:03,498 and you had to make that wide turn, which really wasn't a motivated move, in truth, and you had to make that wide turn, which really wasn't a motivated move, in truth,
615 00:43:03,873 00:43:06,834 but in the context of the film, do you notice it? Never. but in the context of the film, do you notice it? Never.
616 00:43:06,918 00:43:08,002 No, no, no, no. No, no. No, no, no, no. No, no.
617 00:43:08,086 00:43:09,587 But you feel it and I felt it. But you feel it and I felt it.
618 00:43:09,670 00:43:11,589 You felt it worst of all. You felt it worst of all.
619 00:43:11,672 00:43:14,967 - It's one of those things that... - You have to suck it up. - It's one of those things that... - You have to suck it up.
620 00:43:15,051 00:43:16,719 - Let's be honest. - You gotta suck it up. - Let's be honest. - You gotta suck it up.
621 00:43:16,844 00:43:21,557 And it's a trust... Look, things look differently through the camera. And it's a trust... Look, things look differently through the camera.
622 00:43:22,058 00:43:26,854 And so, you know, I don't know what Klemens was on there, maybe a 40. And so, you know, I don't know what Klemens was on there, maybe a 40.
623 00:43:28,189 00:43:32,985 But he was moving, so you don't notice it. But he was moving, so you don't notice it.
624 00:43:33,069 00:43:34,570 I mean, too many of those? I mean, too many of those?
625 00:43:34,862 00:43:38,222 Too many of those and they'll add up. Yeah. That's right. That's right. You'll see... Too many of those and they'll add up. Yeah. That's right. That's right. You'll see...
626 00:43:38,366 00:43:41,077 You've gotta always be working to minimize those things. You've gotta always be working to minimize those things.
627 00:43:41,202 00:43:43,041 - Well, this is... - This is our guys coming in - Well, this is... - This is our guys coming in
628 00:43:43,121 00:43:45,665 - out of the shit... - To the Green Zone. - out of the shit... - To the Green Zone.
629 00:43:45,748 00:43:51,879 ...into the Green Zone, which is really, really well-described in Rajiv's book. ...into the Green Zone, which is really, really well-described in Rajiv's book.
630 00:43:52,880 00:43:59,011 And this is absolutely, literally a facsimile. And this is absolutely, literally a facsimile.
631 00:43:59,095 00:44:05,059 It is an absolutely perfect version of what the Republican, It is an absolutely perfect version of what the Republican,
632 00:44:05,143 00:44:07,019 the back of the Republican Palace looked like. the back of the Republican Palace looked like.
633 00:44:07,103 00:44:13,484 This is exactly what it looked like in every detail, really. This is exactly what it looked like in every detail, really.
634 00:44:15,570 00:44:17,321 And surreal, in a way. And surreal, in a way.
635 00:44:18,906 00:44:21,784 You know, if you've been out in the dust of the desert, You know, if you've been out in the dust of the desert,
636 00:44:23,786 00:44:24,832 trying to look for these things, trying to look for these things,
637 00:44:24,912 00:44:27,790 and suddenly, all the guys are in this sort of strange, and suddenly, all the guys are in this sort of strange,
638 00:44:32,253 00:44:38,092 semi-permissive environment, but also one filled with intrigue. semi-permissive environment, but also one filled with intrigue.
639 00:44:39,135 00:44:43,181 And you get that sort of thriller route still going. And you get that sort of thriller route still going.
640 00:44:43,264 00:44:45,266 The notebook, the names. The notebook, the names.
641 00:44:47,351 00:44:50,104 So you're still driving him along. So you're still driving him along.
642 00:44:50,605 00:44:51,939 God damn! God damn!
643 00:44:52,273 00:44:53,482 I like this scene very much. I like this scene very much.
644 00:44:53,608 00:44:58,112 Brendan is kind of... You're not quite sure what his game is. Brendan is kind of... You're not quite sure what his game is.
645 00:44:58,196 00:45:03,451 You're not quite sure, is he gonna turn out to be a good guy or not? You're not quite sure, is he gonna turn out to be a good guy or not?
646 00:45:03,826 00:45:05,540 And he's sort of abrupt and gruff, isn't he? And he's sort of abrupt and gruff, isn't he?
647 00:45:05,620 00:45:06,954 Yeah. He's just terrific. Yeah. He's just terrific.
648 00:45:07,038 00:45:11,709 I wondered if he was channeling Gene Hackman for this role, I wondered if he was channeling Gene Hackman for this role,
649 00:45:11,792 00:45:15,504 because Brendan's this wonderful Irish guy. because Brendan's this wonderful Irish guy.
650 00:45:15,630 00:45:20,134 He's got this incredible voice and laugh, He's got this incredible voice and laugh,
651 00:45:21,010 00:45:24,263 - but he just clicked right into this guy... - Yeah. - but he just clicked right into this guy... - Yeah.
652 00:45:24,347 00:45:28,476 ...and had such weight to him. ...and had such weight to him.
653 00:45:28,976 00:45:33,314 You really believed that he'd spent his career over there You really believed that he'd spent his career over there
654 00:45:33,397 00:45:37,026 and understood the way things really worked, and understood the way things really worked,
655 00:45:37,109 00:45:40,321 and I just thought he did a terrific job. and I just thought he did a terrific job.
656 00:45:41,489 00:45:43,574 And this is Amy, who's... And this is Amy, who's...
657 00:45:43,658 00:45:46,202 - How did you know that? - It's right there on your rifle. - How did you know that? - It's right there on your rifle.
658 00:45:46,327 00:45:47,370 Lawrie Dayne... Lawrie Dayne...
659 00:45:47,453 00:45:49,247 I mean, it was a very hard challenge, I mean, it was a very hard challenge,
660 00:45:49,330 00:45:53,501 'cause I always think the reporter in a conspiracy thriller 'cause I always think the reporter in a conspiracy thriller
661 00:45:53,584 00:45:57,922 is a very tough assignment, is a very tough assignment,
662 00:45:58,005 00:46:00,841 for an actor to find the sort of grounded reality. for an actor to find the sort of grounded reality.
663 00:46:00,925 00:46:06,597 And she really had to work hard, And she really had to work hard,
664 00:46:06,681 00:46:11,769 and she did, to find a very simple line through that, and she did, to find a very simple line through that,
665 00:46:11,852 00:46:17,358 because the truth is, in the real world, because the truth is, in the real world,
666 00:46:19,235 00:46:23,948 the relationship between the press and the events that took place the relationship between the press and the events that took place
667 00:46:24,031 00:46:27,785 in advance of the invasion was complex in advance of the invasion was complex
668 00:46:27,868 00:46:33,124 and filled with ethical questions and filled with ethical questions
669 00:46:33,207 00:46:35,543 and uncertainties, and I thought and uncertainties, and I thought
670 00:46:37,378 00:46:42,258 she managed to find a character who was at once... You condemned her, she managed to find a character who was at once... You condemned her,
671 00:46:42,341 00:46:46,387 but in another way, you saw that she was trying to find a way out of it. but in another way, you saw that she was trying to find a way out of it.
672 00:46:50,057 00:46:53,894 Well, we shot a few of these scenes, anyway, along the way. Well, we shot a few of these scenes, anyway, along the way.
673 00:46:56,230 00:46:57,940 But that's okay. But that's okay.
674 00:47:00,026 00:47:02,820 I always wanted, in the end... I always wanted, in the end...
675 00:47:02,903 00:47:09,618 This film is... It's got to be in genre. It's got to be in genre, This film is... It's got to be in genre. It's got to be in genre,
676 00:47:12,038 00:47:16,542 but for me, the big radical play on the genre is, but for me, the big radical play on the genre is,
677 00:47:16,625 00:47:19,086 it's not in Bourne world. It's in the real world. it's not in Bourne world. It's in the real world.
678 00:47:19,170 00:47:21,088 - Right. - But yet, it's a fictional story. - Right. - But yet, it's a fictional story.
679 00:47:21,172 00:47:24,216 But yet, it's playing with a lot of elements But yet, it's playing with a lot of elements
680 00:47:24,300 00:47:26,013 that we know and remember from the real world. that we know and remember from the real world.
681 00:47:26,093 00:47:30,348 And so, I mean, obviously, people watching will make their own decisions, And so, I mean, obviously, people watching will make their own decisions,
682 00:47:30,431 00:47:36,645 but to me, that curious sort of recognizable but to me, that curious sort of recognizable
683 00:47:36,729 00:47:42,109 but unpredictable mix, it's taking some of the elements but unpredictable mix, it's taking some of the elements
684 00:47:42,193 00:47:48,074 of the Bourne thrillers and putting them in the real world, of the Bourne thrillers and putting them in the real world,
685 00:47:48,157 00:47:52,078 and it's asking that audience, and it's asking that audience,
686 00:47:53,454 00:47:58,125 I always think, to take that step, really, that completes the circle, I always think, to take that step, really, that completes the circle,
687 00:47:58,209 00:47:59,251 do you know what I mean? do you know what I mean?
688 00:47:59,335 00:48:01,545 I mean, obviously, you made the first Bourne, I didn't, I mean, obviously, you made the first Bourne, I didn't,
689 00:48:01,629 00:48:05,091 but it always struck me that Bourne, as a franchise, but it always struck me that Bourne, as a franchise,
690 00:48:05,466 00:48:09,095 perfectly expressed all the mistrust and paranoia perfectly expressed all the mistrust and paranoia
691 00:48:09,178 00:48:13,474 that grew up between 2001 and 2003. that grew up between 2001 and 2003.
692 00:48:13,641 00:48:20,356 And we really, really distilled that, I think, in Supremacy and Ultimatum. And we really, really distilled that, I think, in Supremacy and Ultimatum.
693 00:48:22,066 00:48:26,112 So it's almost like it sprang from the real world, So it's almost like it sprang from the real world,
694 00:48:26,195 00:48:29,073 got distilled, and then Green Zone sort of says, got distilled, and then Green Zone sort of says,
695 00:48:29,156 00:48:35,037 "Well, let's go back into the real world and see what that feels like." "Well, let's go back into the real world and see what that feels like."
696 00:48:35,162 00:48:36,414 - You know? - Yeah. - You know? - Yeah.
697 00:48:36,789 00:48:38,457 - Where's Al Rawi? - Where's Al Rawi? - Where's Al Rawi? - Where's Al Rawi?
698 00:48:39,125 00:48:41,585 Greg, I think, is very, very good in this scene. Greg, I think, is very, very good in this scene.
699 00:48:42,378 00:48:43,838 Greg's good in everything. Greg's good in everything.
700 00:48:44,630 00:48:49,093 But he captures a sort of discomfort... But he captures a sort of discomfort...
701 00:48:49,176 00:48:51,679 Yeah, I know. It's really nice that you can see... Yeah, I know. It's really nice that you can see...
702 00:48:51,762 00:48:54,181 -He doesn't revel in this. Exactly. Exactly. -He doesn't revel in this. Exactly. Exactly.
703 00:48:54,265 00:48:59,520 Which would have been the easy way to do it, and it would've been wrong. Which would have been the easy way to do it, and it would've been wrong.
704 00:49:01,522 00:49:05,443 People who are advocating this type of stuff People who are advocating this type of stuff
705 00:49:08,195 00:49:10,322 - are not sadists. - No. - are not sadists. - No.
706 00:49:11,991 00:49:17,079 It's about the inevitable results of great forces that are set in chain It's about the inevitable results of great forces that are set in chain
707 00:49:17,163 00:49:20,374 and pitted against each other, is the truth of it. and pitted against each other, is the truth of it.
708 00:49:25,212 00:49:27,301 And this was a scene we talked about a lot, wasn't it? And this was a scene we talked about a lot, wasn't it?
709 00:49:27,381 00:49:29,925 - You and he, the first meeting... - Yeah. - You and he, the first meeting... - Yeah.
710 00:49:30,009 00:49:32,845 ...which in a way is a kind of... ...which in a way is a kind of...
711 00:49:32,928 00:49:37,099 It's a necessary scene in a thriller genre. It's a necessary scene in a thriller genre.
712 00:49:37,183 00:49:40,644 The hero meets the bad guy midway through, and... The hero meets the bad guy midway through, and...
713 00:49:40,728 00:49:43,522 - The brush past, midway through. - Yeah. - The brush past, midway through. - Yeah.
714 00:49:44,732 00:49:46,734 And I think it got And I think it got
715 00:49:49,320 00:49:55,409 a very simple procedural base to the scene. a very simple procedural base to the scene.
716 00:49:56,076 00:49:59,288 - I mean, you don't really engage with him. - Yeah. - I mean, you don't really engage with him. - Yeah.
717 00:49:59,371 00:50:01,248 He's not really disturbed by that. He's not really disturbed by that.
718 00:50:01,332 00:50:03,584 He's just gonna convey his information. He's just gonna convey his information.
719 00:50:04,001 00:50:05,794 He's confirmed a few facts for us. He's confirmed a few facts for us.
720 00:50:05,920 00:50:12,426 I think it's great that it's in that sort of blasted, strange I think it's great that it's in that sort of blasted, strange
721 00:50:14,637 00:50:18,891 luxury-that's-been-trashed world of the Green Zone, luxury-that's-been-trashed world of the Green Zone,
722 00:50:20,684 00:50:22,394 which was quite deserted, in fact. which was quite deserted, in fact.
723 00:50:23,771 00:50:25,314 But all the same, he does the... But all the same, he does the...
724 00:50:25,397 00:50:31,070 You get the lookout between the two of you. You get the lookout between the two of you.
725 00:50:31,153 00:50:32,196 Right. Right.
726 00:50:32,279 00:50:34,039 There's an opportunity for you here, Miller. There's an opportunity for you here, Miller.
727 00:50:34,156 00:50:35,950 He sure is offering me a lot. He sure is offering me a lot.
728 00:50:37,117 00:50:39,912 Come party. Come party with the DOD guys. Come party. Come party with the DOD guys.
729 00:50:40,663 00:50:44,083 He doesn't overplay it, He doesn't overplay it,
730 00:50:44,166 00:50:49,713 - but you feel the earnestness of the pitch. - No, no, no. - but you feel the earnestness of the pitch. - No, no, no.
731 00:50:49,797 00:50:51,010 He did a couple of different things here. He did a couple of different things here.
732 00:50:51,090 00:50:56,470 And I don't remember if we ended with the, "We're doing a good thing here," and... And I don't remember if we ended with the, "We're doing a good thing here," and...
733 00:50:57,972 00:51:01,016 They didn't over-egg it. It was just, that's what he believes. They didn't over-egg it. It was just, that's what he believes.
734 00:51:01,225 00:51:05,729 And I like that he threw away the "notebook" over his shoulder. And I like that he threw away the "notebook" over his shoulder.
735 00:51:06,647 00:51:10,067 Poundstone's unit pushed all that WMD intel you've been chasing your tail on. Poundstone's unit pushed all that WMD intel you've been chasing your tail on.
736 00:51:10,150 00:51:11,277 What? You mean Magellan? What? You mean Magellan?
737 00:51:11,360 00:51:16,699 This is to create that world, again, of through-the-barricades This is to create that world, again, of through-the-barricades
738 00:51:16,782 00:51:18,450 - and everything, just the... - Yeah. - and everything, just the... - Yeah.
739 00:51:19,952 00:51:21,912 Here's the deal. We checked the notebook. Here's the deal. We checked the notebook.
740 00:51:21,996 00:51:26,792 In any thriller, you've always got areas of exposition. In any thriller, you've always got areas of exposition.
741 00:51:27,835 00:51:29,635 - There are little... - And we've entered one. - There are little... - And we've entered one.
742 00:51:30,838 00:51:33,716 But you have to have them, because you've gotta... But you have to have them, because you've gotta...
743 00:51:33,799 00:51:37,011 Particularly in thrillers, of course, because you always have characters Particularly in thrillers, of course, because you always have characters
744 00:51:37,094 00:51:40,389 moving along different timelines of knowledge. moving along different timelines of knowledge.
745 00:51:40,472 00:51:43,183 They know different things at different times. They know different things at different times.
746 00:51:43,267 00:51:44,480 They have different states of knowledge, They have different states of knowledge,
747 00:51:44,560 00:51:48,647 and you somehow, generally round about the middle of a thriller, and you somehow, generally round about the middle of a thriller,
748 00:51:48,731 00:51:53,110 you've gotta start to get their states of knowledge in alignment, you've gotta start to get their states of knowledge in alignment,
749 00:51:53,193 00:51:56,447 so that they're gonna collide in the right kinds of ways so that they're gonna collide in the right kinds of ways
750 00:51:56,530 00:51:59,783 in the final third, and that always gives rise in the final third, and that always gives rise
751 00:51:59,867 00:52:03,078 to the necessary nature of the exposition, to the necessary nature of the exposition,
752 00:52:03,162 00:52:06,957 and also to get the central character and also to get the central character
753 00:52:08,208 00:52:11,295 framed up with whatever the moral obstacle's gonna be. framed up with whatever the moral obstacle's gonna be.
754 00:52:12,463 00:52:14,173 We gotta find Al Rawi and bring him in. We gotta find Al Rawi and bring him in.
755 00:52:14,256 00:52:17,801 In this case, it's this very seasoned CIA guy telling him In this case, it's this very seasoned CIA guy telling him
756 00:52:17,885 00:52:23,557 that he might have to reframe his moral dynamic. that he might have to reframe his moral dynamic.
757 00:52:24,224 00:52:25,392 Yeah. Yeah.
758 00:52:26,060 00:52:28,062 - Yeah, I want it. - Good. - Yeah, I want it. - Good.
759 00:52:29,063 00:52:30,105 Hamza's being held... Hamza's being held...
760 00:52:30,189 00:52:33,692 And it's good, I think. I think one of the great things about this story is And it's good, I think. I think one of the great things about this story is
761 00:52:33,776 00:52:36,403 that it feels... that it feels...
762 00:52:36,654 00:52:38,781 I'm not. You are. I'm not. You are.
763 00:52:39,573 00:52:42,910 - ...very, very simple, this story. - Right. - ...very, very simple, this story. - Right.
764 00:52:44,161 00:52:48,582 And in a way, narratively, it is very simple. And in a way, narratively, it is very simple.
765 00:52:49,917 00:52:56,507 But the shifts of where you feel the moral center But the shifts of where you feel the moral center
766 00:52:56,590 00:53:02,346 of any action... Is Al Rawi a guy that should be caught, of any action... Is Al Rawi a guy that should be caught,
767 00:53:02,429 00:53:06,058 or is he a bad guy, or are there some gray areas there? or is he a bad guy, or are there some gray areas there?
768 00:53:06,141 00:53:09,770 That shifts and changes as you get closer to him. That shifts and changes as you get closer to him.
769 00:53:10,145 00:53:14,566 Is the choice to catch him Is the choice to catch him
770 00:53:15,401 00:53:19,780 a good thing to do, from your point of view, in terms of what's in your interest a good thing to do, from your point of view, in terms of what's in your interest
771 00:53:19,863 00:53:22,783 and American interests, or is it actually more complex? and American interests, or is it actually more complex?
772 00:53:22,866 00:53:25,994 That's your journey, isn't it? That's your journey, isn't it?
773 00:53:26,078 00:53:30,541 And it's starting to get hedged and complicated at this point. And it's starting to get hedged and complicated at this point.
774 00:53:37,548 00:53:40,175 So now we're gonna kick up a gear. So now we're gonna kick up a gear.
775 00:53:42,678 00:53:45,556 Start to sharpen it up. Start to sharpen it up.
776 00:53:46,390 00:53:48,517 - I love when he says... - You made this dusk, huh? - I love when he says... - You made this dusk, huh?
777 00:53:49,977 00:53:51,815 It was always meant to be. No, it was always meant to be. It was always meant to be. No, it was always meant to be.
778 00:53:51,895 00:53:53,313 That's why the lights were on. That's why the lights were on.
779 00:53:53,397 00:53:56,195 - Yeah, but that's why we had the lights on. - I see. Now I've got you. - Yeah, but that's why we had the lights on. - I see. Now I've got you.
780 00:53:56,275 00:53:58,318 Maybe I missed that memo. Maybe I missed that memo.
781 00:54:00,487 00:54:03,240 Wouldn't have played it differently, but, you know... Wouldn't have played it differently, but, you know...
782 00:54:03,407 00:54:05,451 But did you do that in the DI? You did that later? But did you do that in the DI? You did that later?
783 00:54:05,534 00:54:08,746 Yeah. We just graded it down a little bit, but it... Yeah. We just graded it down a little bit, but it...
784 00:54:08,829 00:54:12,791 We stopped that down in the day, We stopped that down in the day,
785 00:54:12,875 00:54:17,129 'cause I wanted you to feel that this was all gonna go into one night. 'cause I wanted you to feel that this was all gonna go into one night.
786 00:54:17,212 00:54:18,255 Right. Right.
787 00:54:19,757 00:54:23,135 So that, in effect, this whole film, from the moment... So that, in effect, this whole film, from the moment...
788 00:54:23,927 00:54:26,138 The moment you hit the soccer field, The moment you hit the soccer field,
789 00:54:26,221 00:54:29,892 when you're sitting there and Al Rawi turns up when you're sitting there and Al Rawi turns up
790 00:54:32,269 00:54:34,813 at the generals' meeting... at the generals' meeting...
791 00:54:34,897 00:54:37,524 - That's one day. - It's one day till the end of the movie. - That's one day. - It's one day till the end of the movie.
792 00:54:37,733 00:54:39,151 I've got it! I've got it!
793 00:54:43,822 00:54:46,283 - Let's go. - Stay out of this, Marty. - Let's go. - Stay out of this, Marty.
794 00:54:48,368 00:54:49,995 - You all right here? - Yeah. - You all right here? - Yeah.
795 00:54:54,625 00:54:58,253 I think what you wanna feel out of this story is that... I think what you wanna feel out of this story is that...
796 00:54:58,587 00:55:03,383 The fact that Al Rawi has surfaced, the fact that you have found the notebook, The fact that Al Rawi has surfaced, the fact that you have found the notebook,
797 00:55:05,427 00:55:10,265 is now starting to make things happen. People are having to commit now. is now starting to make things happen. People are having to commit now.
798 00:55:10,349 00:55:17,231 Poundstone can't afford to let Al Rawi, obviously, be found. Poundstone can't afford to let Al Rawi, obviously, be found.
799 00:55:17,439 00:55:19,566 He's gotta catch him first. He's gotta catch him first.
800 00:55:20,526 00:55:26,365 And you'll start to feel the same thing. Certainly, Brown, Brendan's character, is. And you'll start to feel the same thing. Certainly, Brown, Brendan's character, is.
801 00:55:32,496 00:55:34,957 Now, the tone of this scene Now, the tone of this scene
802 00:55:38,293 00:55:40,003 was a very difficult one to get right. was a very difficult one to get right.
803 00:55:40,087 00:55:44,466 You've gotta just serve it up straight, You've gotta just serve it up straight,
804 00:55:48,053 00:55:53,809 not overplay it, in terms of what I was doing. not overplay it, in terms of what I was doing.
805 00:55:55,978 00:55:58,939 Well, it's based on research and... Well, it's based on research and...
806 00:56:01,733 00:56:06,655 But, you know, you've got to keep this film But, you know, you've got to keep this film
807 00:56:07,364 00:56:10,158 true to what it is, which is, true to what it is, which is,
808 00:56:11,869 00:56:16,540 it's a thriller. You know what I mean? It's a thriller set in the real world. it's a thriller. You know what I mean? It's a thriller set in the real world.
809 00:56:17,165 00:56:22,504 You don't want to deviate from that. But along the way, you can harness You don't want to deviate from that. But along the way, you can harness
810 00:56:22,588 00:56:28,093 the moral complexities of the real-world environment. the moral complexities of the real-world environment.
811 00:56:30,137 00:56:32,681 In this little detail, for instance. In this little detail, for instance.
812 00:56:37,394 00:56:39,479 Just the minor humiliation. Just the minor humiliation.
813 00:56:40,522 00:56:41,690 Check it out. Check it out.
814 00:56:42,816 00:56:47,446 Khalid is just so, you know... It looks like he's done it many times, Khalid is just so, you know... It looks like he's done it many times,
815 00:56:48,822 00:56:50,449 now he's doing it again. now he's doing it again.
816 00:56:52,618 00:56:57,289 Those little shots of him taking this in are really effective. Those little shots of him taking this in are really effective.
817 00:56:57,873 00:57:01,001 Well, the translators were in a hideously difficult place, weren't they? Well, the translators were in a hideously difficult place, weren't they?
818 00:57:01,168 00:57:04,087 I mean, translators, whether for the US or the UK. I mean, translators, whether for the US or the UK.
819 00:57:04,171 00:57:07,299 In other words, they were the guys who were gonna help, In other words, they were the guys who were gonna help,
820 00:57:07,382 00:57:10,928 but, of course, if it went wrong, and when we go home, but, of course, if it went wrong, and when we go home,
821 00:57:11,011 00:57:15,974 they are the ones that are left behind. And I thought he captured that they are the ones that are left behind. And I thought he captured that
822 00:57:18,769 00:57:20,520 feeling very well. feeling very well.
823 00:57:22,022 00:57:24,149 Now, here's the decoy guy I'm supposed to meet. Now, here's the decoy guy I'm supposed to meet.
824 00:57:24,232 00:57:28,445 He's just a guy in the Republican Guard. Low-level Republican Guard. He's just a guy in the Republican Guard. Low-level Republican Guard.
825 00:57:30,364 00:57:32,703 - That's not necessary, Sergeant. - Standard procedure, sir. - That's not necessary, Sergeant. - Standard procedure, sir.
826 00:57:32,783 00:57:37,204 And we see him knocked around a little bit. And we see him knocked around a little bit.
827 00:57:41,500 00:57:43,627 But I like this touch. You don't take that bait. But I like this touch. You don't take that bait.
828 00:57:43,710 00:57:48,131 Miller doesn't take that bait, he makes no comment on it. Miller doesn't take that bait, he makes no comment on it.
829 00:57:48,215 00:57:51,468 - -Well, it's a war and... - Yeah, exactly, guys get knocked about... - -Well, it's a war and... - Yeah, exactly, guys get knocked about...
830 00:57:51,551 00:57:53,348 - ...and he's a bad guy. - And he's a bad guy. - ...and he's a bad guy. - And he's a bad guy.
831 00:57:53,428 00:57:56,473 He's in the Republican Guard, and he probably tried to shoot my friends He's in the Republican Guard, and he probably tried to shoot my friends
832 00:57:56,556 00:57:58,225 - two weeks ago. - Correct. Exactly. - two weeks ago. - Correct. Exactly.
833 00:57:58,308 00:58:04,398 So we're in the middle of a war, and it's not time to... So we're in the middle of a war, and it's not time to...
834 00:58:04,856 00:58:07,359 Monty was very good with that, you know. Monty was very good with that, you know.
835 00:58:07,859 00:58:10,779 Look, a bleeding-heart actor like myself, Look, a bleeding-heart actor like myself,
836 00:58:10,862 00:58:16,034 first thing I do if I see someone with a lump on their head is try to get them some ice. first thing I do if I see someone with a lump on their head is try to get them some ice.
837 00:58:16,743 00:58:19,913 - But who knows the circumstances? - Exactly. Exactly. - But who knows the circumstances? - Exactly. Exactly.
838 00:58:20,372 00:58:22,582 - We don't. - As you say, he could have been... - We don't. - As you say, he could have been...
839 00:58:22,708 00:58:24,546 Hey, listen, this guy just gave us a piece of intel. Hey, listen, this guy just gave us a piece of intel.
840 00:58:24,626 00:58:27,174 ...caught while trying to get away, or, you know, whatever, whatever. ...caught while trying to get away, or, you know, whatever, whatever.
841 00:58:27,254 00:58:28,422 ...named Sewed Hamza. ...named Sewed Hamza.
842 00:58:28,505 00:58:29,548 He can ID him for me. He can ID him for me.
843 00:58:29,631 00:58:30,928 I gotta get him down here and ID him. I gotta get him down here and ID him.
844 00:58:31,008 00:58:37,347 So, here, I'm trying to talk my way into the HVT wing to get to Seyyed, So, here, I'm trying to talk my way into the HVT wing to get to Seyyed,
845 00:58:38,015 00:58:42,853 make my offer on behalf of Martin Brown. make my offer on behalf of Martin Brown.
846 00:58:42,936 00:58:44,438 Good, let's go. Hey, Freddy. Good, let's go. Hey, Freddy.
847 00:58:45,772 00:58:48,483 And the gambit has worked, so here we go. And the gambit has worked, so here we go.
848 00:58:49,651 00:58:51,319 More little details. More little details.
849 00:58:53,780 00:58:56,116 And Freddy, again, seeing it all. And Freddy, again, seeing it all.
850 00:58:57,826 00:59:00,704 And I think you have country music playing here, right? Yeah, it's nice. And I think you have country music playing here, right? Yeah, it's nice.
851 00:59:00,787 00:59:02,956 OGA coming in for an ID check. OGA coming in for an ID check.
852 00:59:03,790 00:59:07,461 Those little details of the basketball game and the music... Those little details of the basketball game and the music...
853 00:59:19,014 00:59:20,390 Hey, Hamza. Hey, Hamza.
854 00:59:20,599 00:59:21,808 Get up. Get up.
855 00:59:24,478 00:59:27,898 On the level of narrative, now, you've got... On the level of narrative, now, you've got...
856 00:59:28,273 00:59:32,235 - You gotta have the guy give a clue and die. - Yeah, you have to. - You gotta have the guy give a clue and die. - Yeah, you have to.
857 00:59:33,236 00:59:34,905 I said, get a medic! I said, get a medic!
858 00:59:34,988 00:59:39,951 But it's not just that. There's that going on, of course, on the surface, But it's not just that. There's that going on, of course, on the surface,
859 00:59:40,035 00:59:46,541 but also, really, it's about Miller getting deeper into this thing. but also, really, it's about Miller getting deeper into this thing.
860 00:59:46,625 00:59:48,835 It's like, it really is not... It's like, it really is not...
861 00:59:50,921 00:59:55,092 You're looking for clarity, and what you're getting is more mystery. You're looking for clarity, and what you're getting is more mystery.
862 00:59:55,675 00:59:58,720 Yeah, which is always a good... Yeah, which is always a good...
863 00:59:58,804 01:00:03,141 It's a necessary way that you unfold a conspiracy thriller. It's a necessary way that you unfold a conspiracy thriller.
864 01:00:03,225 01:00:05,185 That's exactly what you want. That's exactly what you want.
865 01:00:05,685 01:00:10,398 The more mystery there is, the more urgently the central character needs clarity, The more mystery there is, the more urgently the central character needs clarity,
866 01:00:10,482 01:00:15,862 and the more urgently he searches for clarity, the more he uncovers more mystery. and the more urgently he searches for clarity, the more he uncovers more mystery.
867 01:00:17,906 01:00:20,867 For an audience, it's very satisfying, For an audience, it's very satisfying,
868 01:00:20,951 01:00:24,454 'cause obviously you know, deep down, the piece is gonna be resolved, 'cause obviously you know, deep down, the piece is gonna be resolved,
869 01:00:24,538 01:00:26,373 or hopefully will be. or hopefully will be.
870 01:00:30,252 01:00:34,381 And also, along with that development, And also, along with that development,
871 01:00:38,093 01:00:40,387 you're unpicking more violence. you're unpicking more violence.
872 01:00:40,720 01:00:44,975 Certainly, that's what you get here. Certainly, that's what you get here.
873 01:00:46,017 01:00:48,395 Yeah. It's one of the things that... Yeah. It's one of the things that...
874 01:00:48,895 01:00:52,732 If you step back from Baghdad for a moment, If you step back from Baghdad for a moment,
875 01:00:52,816 01:00:58,321 in terms of what it means to everybody watching this thing, in terms of what it means to everybody watching this thing,
876 01:01:00,574 01:01:03,368 as an environment, it's very, very... as an environment, it's very, very...
877 01:01:03,451 01:01:06,997 Well, it is now, but certainly even more so then, Well, it is now, but certainly even more so then,
878 01:01:07,497 01:01:09,833 was a very extreme environment, was a very extreme environment,
879 01:01:09,916 01:01:15,005 full of danger, physical danger, moral extremity, moral danger, full of danger, physical danger, moral extremity, moral danger,
880 01:01:15,422 01:01:19,050 and that drives the story, doesn't it? and that drives the story, doesn't it?
881 01:01:21,386 01:01:25,891 There are things you can do that are harder to do in downtown New York or London. There are things you can do that are harder to do in downtown New York or London.
882 01:01:28,310 01:01:29,811 Where is Mohammed Al Rawi? Where is Mohammed Al Rawi?
883 01:01:30,103 01:01:32,189 I don't know. I don't know.
884 01:01:51,124 01:01:53,335 The Al Rasheed Hotel. The Al Rasheed Hotel.
885 01:01:54,127 01:01:56,421 Gonna go see Lawrie Dayne. Gonna go see Lawrie Dayne.
886 01:02:00,842 01:02:02,844 And confront her about... And confront her about...
887 01:02:04,137 01:02:06,598 The sites she's writing about are sites that I've been to, The sites she's writing about are sites that I've been to,
888 01:02:06,681 01:02:09,142 and there's nothing there. and there's nothing there.
889 01:02:11,394 01:02:13,897 She was one of the cheerleaders of the She was one of the cheerleaders of the
890 01:02:15,982 01:02:17,442 invasion, invasion,
891 01:02:23,698 01:02:28,703 with this source she had, Magellan, who we've established she hasn't even met. with this source she had, Magellan, who we've established she hasn't even met.
892 01:02:29,412 01:02:30,455 So... So...
893 01:02:35,502 01:02:36,962 Good scene, this one. Good scene, this one.
894 01:02:38,129 01:02:40,006 Yeah, Amy is terrific. Yeah, Amy is terrific.
895 01:02:40,090 01:02:42,425 I'm going to call you right back. I'm going to call you right back.
896 01:02:43,093 01:02:44,135 What you got? What you got?
897 01:02:44,219 01:02:46,263 Amy kind of exploded onto the scene a few years ago Amy kind of exploded onto the scene a few years ago
898 01:02:46,346 01:02:51,351 in Ben's movie, in Gone Baby Gone. She was just wonderful, in Ben's movie, in Gone Baby Gone. She was just wonderful,
899 01:02:51,434 01:02:55,897 and everyone said, "Who the hell is this girl?" and everyone said, "Who the hell is this girl?"
900 01:02:56,273 01:02:59,526 Oh, no. Come on, Miller. I can't discuss my sources with you. Oh, no. Come on, Miller. I can't discuss my sources with you.
901 01:02:59,609 01:03:01,861 Well, did you ever meet the guy? Well, did you ever meet the guy?
902 01:03:02,028 01:03:05,115 Well, it would've been so easy to paint the journalist as... Well, it would've been so easy to paint the journalist as...
903 01:03:05,198 01:03:06,992 He's an Iraqi internal, for Christ's sake. He's an Iraqi internal, for Christ's sake.
904 01:03:07,117 01:03:09,160 Then how do you know what he's saying is true? Then how do you know what he's saying is true?
905 01:03:09,244 01:03:11,621 - ...you know, a strident figure. - Right. - ...you know, a strident figure. - Right.
906 01:03:11,705 01:03:16,501 I think what's interesting is you take that failing, that all... I think what's interesting is you take that failing, that all...
907 01:03:16,626 01:03:20,297 Let's face it, a lot of press, Let's face it, a lot of press,
908 01:03:20,380 01:03:22,382 both in the US and the UK, both in the US and the UK,
909 01:03:23,591 01:03:26,845 weren't critical enough about asking questions in the run-up to this thing. weren't critical enough about asking questions in the run-up to this thing.
910 01:03:26,928 01:03:29,848 There's no question... Even they would agree with that. There's no question... Even they would agree with that.
911 01:03:31,933 01:03:35,020 But she portrays it ultimately. But she portrays it ultimately.
912 01:03:35,186 01:03:37,689 It has already occurred to her It has already occurred to her
913 01:03:37,772 01:03:40,859 and is already dawning on her before this scene and is already dawning on her before this scene
914 01:03:41,192 01:03:42,527 that she's been had. that she's been had.
915 01:03:42,610 01:03:44,491 And she's not comfortable about it. That's what I mean. And she's not comfortable about it. That's what I mean.
916 01:03:44,571 01:03:48,658 She's not taking the View, with her character, that, She's not taking the View, with her character, that,
917 01:03:48,742 01:03:52,203 "I'm just gonna cover this up." She's very, very conflicted about it. "I'm just gonna cover this up." She's very, very conflicted about it.
918 01:03:52,287 01:03:56,291 And that's what gets revealed in this scene. And I think it's a... And that's what gets revealed in this scene. And I think it's a...
919 01:03:56,416 01:03:59,252 And it's such a tough thing to play, because she is... And it's such a tough thing to play, because she is...
920 01:03:59,919 01:04:02,422 You know, you can tell she's been thinking about this. You know, you can tell she's been thinking about this.
921 01:04:02,505 01:04:04,507 You can tell this has been eating away at her. You can tell this has been eating away at her.
922 01:04:04,591 01:04:06,388 But at the same time, she's trying to defend herself But at the same time, she's trying to defend herself
923 01:04:06,468 01:04:08,014 -from this guy who comes into her room... Exactly. -from this guy who comes into her room... Exactly.
924 01:04:08,094 01:04:10,764 ...and starts levying all these accusations at her. ...and starts levying all these accusations at her.
925 01:04:10,847 01:04:14,601 And so it's a really tricky scene, And so it's a really tricky scene,
926 01:04:14,684 01:04:17,979 and she just does it really well. and she just does it really well.
927 01:04:18,104 01:04:21,983 "The truth about Saddam's WMD programs." So I go to meet him. "The truth about Saddam's WMD programs." So I go to meet him.
928 01:04:22,108 01:04:23,943 I remember her giving you degrees, too. I remember her giving you degrees, too.
929 01:04:24,027 01:04:26,488 It was take after take, and they were all great. It was take after take, and they were all great.
930 01:04:26,613 01:04:27,614 Yeah. Yeah.
931 01:04:27,697 01:04:29,783 Magellan's product, the raw intel. Magellan's product, the raw intel.
932 01:04:30,533 01:04:31,868 But when do you check the story? But when do you check the story?
933 01:04:31,951 01:04:34,913 And I believed her when she told her story, And I believed her when she told her story,
934 01:04:34,996 01:04:38,249 that she'd met this guy and he'd given her the documents. that she'd met this guy and he'd given her the documents.
935 01:04:38,333 01:04:44,047 Actually, the story that she had to work with was quite generalized, in a way, Actually, the story that she had to work with was quite generalized, in a way,
936 01:04:44,130 01:04:46,216 but she made it feel particular. but she made it feel particular.
937 01:04:46,299 01:04:48,009 And it was in that room And it was in that room
938 01:04:48,134 01:04:52,222 I believed that you believed that she was telling you a real story. I believed that you believed that she was telling you a real story.
939 01:04:54,140 01:04:57,227 That was very hard for you, that scene, because That was very hard for you, that scene, because
940 01:04:58,478 01:05:02,982 in a way, you're just firing questions at her, she's got the work to do. in a way, you're just firing questions at her, she's got the work to do.
941 01:05:08,988 01:05:12,867 And you've somehow got to take out of that... And you've somehow got to take out of that...
942 01:05:12,992 01:05:15,703 It's got to spring you into life and give you more fuel, It's got to spring you into life and give you more fuel,
943 01:05:15,829 01:05:18,289 but without you feeling sort of sententious but without you feeling sort of sententious
944 01:05:18,373 01:05:21,042 and kind of, "Oh, my God, I'm gonna give you a moral here." and kind of, "Oh, my God, I'm gonna give you a moral here."
945 01:05:21,167 01:05:22,168 Right. Right.
946 01:05:22,252 01:05:27,173 I think we were pretty good in this film about not, I think we were pretty good in this film about not,
947 01:05:28,842 01:05:34,013 yeah, not letting this film at all deviate away from a thriller route yeah, not letting this film at all deviate away from a thriller route
948 01:05:34,097 01:05:36,724 into preaching stuff. into preaching stuff.
949 01:05:38,059 01:05:43,022 It's a story set in that world at that time, and you can accept it as that. It's a story set in that world at that time, and you can accept it as that.
950 01:05:43,106 01:05:44,858 It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense.
951 01:05:44,941 01:05:47,735 This is some fantastic exposition through here. This is some fantastic exposition through here.
952 01:05:48,194 01:05:52,365 - I love it. - Keep it moving, keep it moving, faster. - I love it. - Keep it moving, keep it moving, faster.
953 01:05:52,740 01:05:56,703 But, I think, very dramatic, 'cause I think all of us, But, I think, very dramatic, 'cause I think all of us,
954 01:05:58,371 01:06:00,498 at some point, remember a moment at some point, remember a moment
955 01:06:00,582 01:06:03,960 where you kind of go, "Hang on a second, maybe they don't have them." where you kind of go, "Hang on a second, maybe they don't have them."
956 01:06:04,043 01:06:05,587 - Right, right. - You know? - Right, right. - You know?
957 01:06:05,712 01:06:09,674 I remember you directing Brendan in this scene, I remember you directing Brendan in this scene,
958 01:06:09,757 01:06:11,638 and telling him it's fun to... He didn't have to... and telling him it's fun to... He didn't have to...
959 01:06:11,718 01:06:14,596 'Cause we wanted him to be working it out here. 'Cause we wanted him to be working it out here.
960 01:06:15,930 01:06:18,558 You said how fun it is to watch smart people thinking. You said how fun it is to watch smart people thinking.
961 01:06:18,641 01:06:19,893 Yeah. Yeah.
962 01:06:21,561 01:06:25,732 SW, Mohammad N Ram was 'm Amman, Jordan on February 5th, 2003. SW, Mohammad N Ram was 'm Amman, Jordan on February 5th, 2003.
963 01:06:27,609 01:06:33,406 John Powell does some very clever work, musically, here. John Powell does some very clever work, musically, here.
964 01:06:34,949 01:06:37,076 He's modulating the pulse. He's modulating the pulse.
965 01:06:38,411 01:06:43,583 Giving it, holding it back, giving it, holding it back. Giving it, holding it back, giving it, holding it back.
966 01:06:45,335 01:06:49,506 Just so that as we step up, now, from here to the end of the movie, Just so that as we step up, now, from here to the end of the movie,
967 01:06:50,840 01:06:54,761 musically, he's got an absolutely... As in any... musically, he's got an absolutely... As in any...
968 01:06:55,345 01:07:00,141 Yeah, whether it's the Bourne movies or this or whatever, you know, there's a... Yeah, whether it's the Bourne movies or this or whatever, you know, there's a...
969 01:07:01,100 01:07:05,104 When you actually examine what the composer has to do, When you actually examine what the composer has to do,
970 01:07:05,188 01:07:11,152 he's got to get you from the beginning of the film to the end, he's got to get you from the beginning of the film to the end,
971 01:07:12,779 01:07:16,282 across bridges, up inclines, across bridges, up inclines,
972 01:07:18,117 01:07:20,370 places to push, places to hold back, places to push, places to hold back,
973 01:07:20,453 01:07:26,042 and he's gotta give you a graduated journey all the way until your peak, and he's gotta give you a graduated journey all the way until your peak,
974 01:07:26,709 01:07:30,797 and that's an incredibly meticulous journey and that's an incredibly meticulous journey
975 01:07:30,880 01:07:33,633 to do with musical pace, to do with musical pace,
976 01:07:35,802 01:07:38,304 accuracy and clarity of the themes. accuracy and clarity of the themes.
977 01:07:39,722 01:07:41,391 I mean, he's a master of it, isn't he? I mean, he's a master of it, isn't he?
978 01:07:41,474 01:07:44,143 - He's an absolute master, I think. - Yeah. - He's an absolute master, I think. - Yeah.
979 01:07:45,019 01:07:46,062 Stop. Stop.
980 01:07:55,697 01:07:57,198 Where is Mohammed Al Rawi? Where is Mohammed Al Rawi?
981 01:07:57,991 01:07:59,826 Where is he? Where is he?
982 01:08:00,493 01:08:01,995 Tell me. Tell me.
983 01:08:02,328 01:08:05,748 Even if I knew, I would not tell you. Even if I knew, I would not tell you.
984 01:08:16,009 01:08:17,719 All clear, Chief. All clear, Chief.
985 01:08:19,679 01:08:21,806 - Send Freddy! - Yes, sir! - Send Freddy! - Yes, sir!
986 01:08:21,889 01:08:23,766 Freddy, on the move. Freddy, on the move.
987 01:08:28,563 01:08:30,940 Freddy, I need you to translate. Freddy, I need you to translate.
988 01:08:31,024 01:08:33,526 Tell him I need to get a message to General Al Rawi. Tell him I need to get a message to General Al Rawi.
989 01:08:36,571 01:08:40,950 Just starting to feel, now, it's... The pieces are locking in, now, Just starting to feel, now, it's... The pieces are locking in, now,
990 01:08:42,910 01:08:46,539 to create a climax. to create a climax.
991 01:08:46,623 01:08:50,460 It's almost like you've got to bring your pieces to the field. It's almost like you've got to bring your pieces to the field.
992 01:08:52,045 01:08:54,300 There's a lot of heavy lifts you have to do, isn't there, in a movie, There's a lot of heavy lifts you have to do, isn't there, in a movie,
993 01:08:54,380 01:08:57,508 to get to a place where you can let it unfold. to get to a place where you can let it unfold.
994 01:08:57,592 01:09:00,887 I told him I'd meet him at the Adhamiya bus station tonight. I told him I'd meet him at the Adhamiya bus station tonight.
995 01:09:01,220 01:09:03,640 If I can bring him in alive, then we'll have our proof. If I can bring him in alive, then we'll have our proof.
996 01:09:03,723 01:09:06,559 If he talks, then we'll get the truth about WMD. If he talks, then we'll get the truth about WMD.
997 01:09:06,684 01:09:08,728 And again, this was something I was saying earlier, And again, this was something I was saying earlier,
998 01:09:08,853 01:09:11,606 although this story here is quite simple, although this story here is quite simple,
999 01:09:12,357 01:09:15,151 the positioning of, say, your character in this scene now, the positioning of, say, your character in this scene now,
1000 01:09:15,234 01:09:21,199 where you've fully got behind the idea that Al Rawi must be brought in, where you've fully got behind the idea that Al Rawi must be brought in,
1001 01:09:22,408 01:09:26,537 where before, you were absolutely, firmly of a different view, where before, you were absolutely, firmly of a different view,
1002 01:09:27,288 01:09:28,960 you've understood something quite different, you've understood something quite different,
1003 01:09:29,040 01:09:31,668 that he can help... that he can help...
1004 01:09:31,751 01:09:33,920 All right, listen up, we're going to Adhamiya. All right, listen up, we're going to Adhamiya.
1005 01:09:34,045 01:09:36,631 ...in terms of stopping the insurgency. ...in terms of stopping the insurgency.
1006 01:09:36,756 01:09:41,719 In effect, you're starting to see him not so much as an enemy, but a possible ally. In effect, you're starting to see him not so much as an enemy, but a possible ally.
1007 01:09:41,803 01:09:44,514 That's quite a big journey for a character to take. That's quite a big journey for a character to take.
1008 01:09:44,597 01:09:49,977 And, of course, Freddy is very uncomfortable with that as an idea. And, of course, Freddy is very uncomfortable with that as an idea.
1009 01:09:50,937 01:09:54,774 But you have to commit yourself, and Miller's made his choice. But you have to commit yourself, and Miller's made his choice.
1010 01:09:58,444 01:10:00,279 And in a way... And in a way...
1011 01:10:00,405 01:10:01,572 Let's roll! Let's roll!
1012 01:10:03,282 01:10:07,620 ...it's only possibly an heroic choice from Miller's point of View. ...it's only possibly an heroic choice from Miller's point of View.
1013 01:10:08,079 01:10:10,707 If you're an audience, are you fully behind him? If you're an audience, are you fully behind him?
1014 01:10:10,790 01:10:12,792 - Sort of. - Right. - Sort of. - Right.
1015 01:10:13,251 01:10:15,294 But there's something that, But there's something that,
1016 01:10:16,963 01:10:19,716 in this world, in this story, in this world, in this story,
1017 01:10:19,799 01:10:24,846 it's very hard to be comfortable about a black-and-White choice for the hero, I think. it's very hard to be comfortable about a black-and-White choice for the hero, I think.
1018 01:10:25,012 01:10:26,097 Right, right, it's not... Right, right, it's not...
1019 01:10:26,180 01:10:30,143 You start black and white and, I think, you end black and white. You start black and white and, I think, you end black and white.
1020 01:10:30,768 01:10:37,608 But it's always degrees of moral lack of clarity. But it's always degrees of moral lack of clarity.
1021 01:10:40,611 01:10:41,654 Tell me. Tell me.
1022 01:10:43,698 01:10:47,535 You're starting to view him slightly differently, aren't you, at this point? You're starting to view him slightly differently, aren't you, at this point?
1023 01:10:47,952 01:10:50,204 Cause you know he's a bad guy... Cause you know he's a bad guy...
1024 01:10:51,456 01:10:54,500 He wants to meet you, sir. He wants to meet you, sir.
1025 01:10:55,376 01:10:56,794 ...but what's his game? ...but what's his game?
1026 01:11:14,312 01:11:15,813 Republican Palace. Republican Palace.
1027 01:11:18,357 01:11:21,652 Got to get a little "Mission accomplished" in there. Got to get a little "Mission accomplished" in there.
1028 01:11:22,862 01:11:24,530 Well, in terms of our story... Well, in terms of our story...
1029 01:11:24,655 01:11:26,324 Captain Card, Captain Card,
1030 01:11:26,991 01:11:29,452 officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln... officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln...
1031 01:11:29,535 01:11:35,666 ...this is the moment, in any thriller, where the bad guy thinks he's won. ...this is the moment, in any thriller, where the bad guy thinks he's won.
1032 01:11:37,210 01:11:39,796 In the battle of Iraq, the United States... In the battle of Iraq, the United States...
1033 01:11:39,879 01:11:43,299 Which, in a perfect world, you'll always want to precede the moment Which, in a perfect world, you'll always want to precede the moment
1034 01:11:43,382 01:11:45,843 when it all collapses for him. when it all collapses for him.
1035 01:11:48,596 01:11:50,348 And that's, kind of, And that's, kind of,
1036 01:11:54,227 01:11:56,020 the card we're playing here. the card we're playing here.
1037 01:11:56,729 01:11:58,064 - Yeah? - This is Briggs. - Yeah? - This is Briggs.
1038 01:11:58,189 01:12:00,525 There you go. "We got a problem." There you go. "We got a problem."
1039 01:12:00,608 01:12:02,276 My local assets are down. My local assets are down.
1040 01:12:02,401 01:12:06,113 I got a report saying it was US Army took them out and nobody called it in. I got a report saying it was US Army took them out and nobody called it in.
1041 01:12:06,239 01:12:07,698 Where's Miller? Where's Miller?
1042 01:12:08,199 01:12:09,283 Stand by. Stand by.
1043 01:12:10,076 01:12:13,371 All right, listen up. I need everybody on a Blue Force Tracker. All right, listen up. I need everybody on a Blue Force Tracker.
1044 01:12:13,454 01:12:15,414 Met-Delta 85th, XTF. Met-Delta 85th, XTF.
1045 01:12:19,085 01:12:23,548 Poor Greg wasn't dealt the best card on the mobile phone, was he there? Poor Greg wasn't dealt the best card on the mobile phone, was he there?
1046 01:12:24,924 01:12:28,761 2003, special issue, big sat phone. 2003, special issue, big sat phone.
1047 01:12:35,726 01:12:39,188 Well, now, we're getting a chase. Well, now, we're getting a chase.
1048 01:12:39,272 01:12:41,399 - Now it's ramping up. - Yeah. - Now it's ramping up. - Yeah.
1049 01:12:42,608 01:12:45,611 He's meeting with Al Rawi. Son of a bitch. He's meeting with Al Rawi. Son of a bitch.
1050 01:12:45,736 01:12:48,990 Which is what you want. You want move and countermove in a... Which is what you want. You want move and countermove in a...
1051 01:12:49,115 01:12:52,368 Follow Miller. He'll lead you right to him. And when you find Al Rawi... Follow Miller. He'll lead you right to him. And when you find Al Rawi...
1052 01:12:52,451 01:12:54,704 In these sorts of stories, you want... In these sorts of stories, you want...
1053 01:12:54,787 01:12:57,498 - What about Miller? - He's off reservation. - What about Miller? - He's off reservation.
1054 01:12:57,623 01:13:02,545 ...the main protagonist to be following a strong agenda, ...the main protagonist to be following a strong agenda,
1055 01:13:02,628 01:13:07,133 and that causing collision. and that causing collision.
1056 01:13:07,258 01:13:11,345 Other characters have then got to do things in response. Other characters have then got to do things in response.
1057 01:13:11,470 01:13:17,560 And that causes your central character to have to modify or change his or her plans. And that causes your central character to have to modify or change his or her plans.
1058 01:13:17,643 01:13:21,147 You're getting a ballet, basically. You're getting a ballet, basically.
1059 01:13:21,272 01:13:25,943 A physical dance, basically. A physical dance, basically.
1060 01:13:27,486 01:13:32,658 'Cause once you've got it into that state, you can start to develop pace and attack, 'Cause once you've got it into that state, you can start to develop pace and attack,
1061 01:13:34,368 01:13:35,786 and now we're getting it. and now we're getting it.
1062 01:13:35,870 01:13:38,122 I need a 0-2 bird with eyes over Adhamiya. I need a 0-2 bird with eyes over Adhamiya.
1063 01:13:38,205 01:13:41,709 I want an ISO on all military radio and cell phone transmissions. I want an ISO on all military radio and cell phone transmissions.
1064 01:13:41,834 01:13:46,672 We're at the very beginnings now of what is, in effect, We're at the very beginnings now of what is, in effect,
1065 01:13:47,840 01:13:54,055 I don't know, must be a good 20 minutes of sustained action. I don't know, must be a good 20 minutes of sustained action.
1066 01:13:56,557 01:13:58,726 When you're in a cutting room, When you're in a cutting room,
1067 01:14:01,270 01:14:05,232 the big job is just interleaving these elements the big job is just interleaving these elements
1068 01:14:05,358 01:14:08,486 so you've got clarity so you've got clarity
1069 01:14:10,237 01:14:14,200 and you're able to moderate pace. and you're able to moderate pace.
1070 01:14:16,744 01:14:20,998 - That's where Mr. Rouse is a master. - Yeah, man, he sure is. - That's where Mr. Rouse is a master. - Yeah, man, he sure is.
1071 01:14:21,499 01:14:23,542 It's something big, Marty. It's something big, Marty.
1072 01:14:26,629 01:14:29,799 Now we go down for CPA orders one and two. Now we go down for CPA orders one and two.
1073 01:14:37,223 01:14:40,810 This whole section was a massive challenge This whole section was a massive challenge
1074 01:14:40,893 01:14:44,814 for our lords of the camera. for our lords of the camera.
1075 01:14:45,564 01:14:48,234 Barry Ackroyd, our DOP. Barry Ackroyd, our DOP.
1076 01:14:52,655 01:14:54,323 He and I go way back. He and I go way back.
1077 01:14:54,991 01:15:01,330 We did United 93 together and then, obviously, he shot Hurl Looker, brilliantly. We did United 93 together and then, obviously, he shot Hurl Looker, brilliantly.
1078 01:15:04,583 01:15:09,755 And he had the problem of... Which we talked about several times. And he had the problem of... Which we talked about several times.
1079 01:15:09,880 01:15:12,008 I wanted night to be night. I wanted night to be night.
1080 01:15:13,509 01:15:17,596 And I wanted to see if we could shoot, And I wanted to see if we could shoot,
1081 01:15:18,764 01:15:21,058 effectively, an action thriller effectively, an action thriller
1082 01:15:22,268 01:15:24,020 finale, a large piece, finale, a large piece,
1083 01:15:24,854 01:15:30,693 but with the true demands of it being night. but with the true demands of it being night.
1084 01:15:30,776 01:15:32,695 In other words, I didn't want it to be overlit. In other words, I didn't want it to be overlit.
1085 01:15:32,778 01:15:35,906 I didn't want to give him or Klemens I didn't want to give him or Klemens
1086 01:15:37,283 01:15:40,453 and all the other operators, but principally Klemens, and all the other operators, but principally Klemens,
1087 01:15:43,581 01:15:46,709 the amount of light that they would have most needed the amount of light that they would have most needed
1088 01:15:46,792 01:15:50,212 to be able to follow this kind of physicality to be able to follow this kind of physicality
1089 01:15:50,296 01:15:56,218 with any, sort of, hope of success, in terms of focus. with any, sort of, hope of success, in terms of focus.
1090 01:15:57,636 01:16:01,974 It made their life incredibly hard. It made their life incredibly hard.
1091 01:16:03,309 01:16:05,311 But they never complained and they went for it. But they never complained and they went for it.
1092 01:16:05,394 01:16:07,146 I mean, incredible... I mean, incredible...
1093 01:16:08,439 01:16:11,067 As a director, you know, it's that thing of, As a director, you know, it's that thing of,
1094 01:16:11,150 01:16:15,404 you look sometimes, or not sometimes, every single day, you look sometimes, or not sometimes, every single day,
1095 01:16:15,988 01:16:21,494 at the quality of courage at the quality of courage
1096 01:16:21,577 01:16:24,830 that the people that make the film with you are willing to... that the people that make the film with you are willing to...
1097 01:16:24,955 01:16:28,292 Whether it's you or Barry or Sammy, Whether it's you or Barry or Sammy,
1098 01:16:28,584 01:16:32,505 the things you ask, as a director, of people to do the things you ask, as a director, of people to do
1099 01:16:32,630 01:16:34,423 that can expose them. that can expose them.
1100 01:16:34,757 01:16:38,135 My rushes might not look good, and yet they go for it. My rushes might not look good, and yet they go for it.
1101 01:16:38,969 01:16:44,100 I mean, he's probably on a 40 here, but this is Steadicam and it's dark in there. I mean, he's probably on a 40 here, but this is Steadicam and it's dark in there.
1102 01:16:44,183 01:16:46,018 - -Yeah. - I mean, look at that. - -Yeah. - I mean, look at that.
1103 01:16:46,143 01:16:47,937 - And there's a ton of... - Pitch. - And there's a ton of... - Pitch.
1104 01:16:48,020 01:16:53,275 Yeah. A ton of longer-lens stuff of me walking, alternately, Yeah. A ton of longer-lens stuff of me walking, alternately,
1105 01:16:53,359 01:16:56,529 and running and stopping, and the camera moving, it's really... and running and stopping, and the camera moving, it's really...
1106 01:16:56,612 01:17:01,367 The focal plane was very shallow and maybe never... The focal plane was very shallow and maybe never...
1107 01:17:03,536 01:17:05,955 They're just a terrific crew. They're just a terrific crew.
1108 01:17:06,622 01:17:07,957 Terrific crew. Terrific crew.
1109 01:17:08,040 01:17:14,964 I think that a lot of DOPs would never have let me do what Barry... I think that a lot of DOPs would never have let me do what Barry...
1110 01:17:15,297 01:17:19,552 But you needed that. I mean, just walking into this dark... But you needed that. I mean, just walking into this dark...
1111 01:17:19,635 01:17:23,806 It looks real. It was. It was dark. I mean, you know... It looks real. It was. It was dark. I mean, you know...
1112 01:17:24,682 01:17:25,975 And I think it... Yeah. And I think it... Yeah.
1113 01:17:26,058 01:17:30,312 You can look at some of the images from here on to the end and say, You can look at some of the images from here on to the end and say,
1114 01:17:31,230 01:17:36,652 "Well, technically, they're edgy," and all of that. "Well, technically, they're edgy," and all of that.
1115 01:17:38,028 01:17:44,410 But that's what makes the sequence feel like it's got the bite of reality. But that's what makes the sequence feel like it's got the bite of reality.
1116 01:17:45,369 01:17:48,080 It doesn't have the gloss It doesn't have the gloss
1117 01:17:49,707 01:17:50,833 of fiction. of fiction.
1118 01:17:50,916 01:17:55,546 Somewhere it, sort of, sits between the two, which is good, I think. Somewhere it, sort of, sits between the two, which is good, I think.
1119 01:17:56,755 01:17:58,177 I always love this little sequence, too, I always love this little sequence, too,
1120 01:17:58,257 01:18:00,843 because it's like he's at home, he's watching. because it's like he's at home, he's watching.
1121 01:18:00,926 01:18:04,847 He's watching the fact that they've de-Ba'athified He's watching the fact that they've de-Ba'athified
1122 01:18:04,930 01:18:06,182 and they've disbanded the army, and they've disbanded the army,
1123 01:18:06,265 01:18:10,269 and it's just, instantaneously, these guys pick up their arms. and it's just, instantaneously, these guys pick up their arms.
1124 01:18:10,394 01:18:13,606 - It's just that they've been waiting. - It's gonna be no deal. - It's just that they've been waiting. - It's gonna be no deal.
1125 01:18:13,731 01:18:17,109 That's it. So it's an insurgency, That's it. So it's an insurgency,
1126 01:18:17,193 01:18:20,446 and the connection between those two things, and the connection between those two things,
1127 01:18:21,947 01:18:27,703 sending hundreds of thousands of people away, armed, and saying, sending hundreds of thousands of people away, armed, and saying,
1128 01:18:27,786 01:18:30,289 "There's not a place for you in this country." "There's not a place for you in this country."
1129 01:18:31,457 01:18:34,460 But what's interesting is, is that thing... But what's interesting is, is that thing...
1130 01:18:35,878 01:18:39,632 Now, morally, the equation's turned again. Now, morally, the equation's turned again.
1131 01:18:39,757 01:18:41,884 Yeah, you were seeking him as an ally, Yeah, you were seeking him as an ally,
1132 01:18:41,967 01:18:45,262 Miller was seeking him as an ally five minutes ago. Miller was seeking him as an ally five minutes ago.
1133 01:18:45,596 01:18:47,973 And as an audience, you're probably uncomfortable with that, And as an audience, you're probably uncomfortable with that,
1134 01:18:48,098 01:18:50,643 but you're probably, in terms of the story of this film, going, but you're probably, in terms of the story of this film, going,
1135 01:18:50,768 01:18:54,146 "Okay, well, our hero wants that and it's going to help present..." "Okay, well, our hero wants that and it's going to help present..."
1136 01:18:54,230 01:18:58,400 Now, Al Rawi is throwing down. Now, Al Rawi is throwing down.
1137 01:18:58,484 01:19:04,990 So the idea of using him as an ally, at this point, is impossible. So the idea of using him as an ally, at this point, is impossible.
1138 01:19:05,115 01:19:08,577 So the entire moral equation for Miller, So the entire moral equation for Miller,
1139 01:19:08,661 01:19:11,000 - although he doesn't yet know it... - He doesn't know it yet. - although he doesn't yet know it... - He doesn't know it yet.
1140 01:19:11,080 01:19:12,790 ...has been removed. ...has been removed.
1141 01:19:15,125 01:19:17,670 - Unless he can talk him out of it. - Yeah. - Unless he can talk him out of it. - Yeah.
1142 01:19:18,170 01:19:21,674 But yes, no, barring that, then they're at war. But yes, no, barring that, then they're at war.
1143 01:19:23,509 01:19:25,010 I lost contact. I lost contact.
1144 01:19:31,934 01:19:35,479 This is Rouse getting me out of dutch there. This is Rouse getting me out of dutch there.
1145 01:19:36,313 01:19:40,150 Collapsing the time a little bit, so we can buy that. Collapsing the time a little bit, so we can buy that.
1146 01:19:40,985 01:19:42,573 They're always hideous moments, aren't they? They're always hideous moments, aren't they?
1147 01:19:42,653 01:19:44,321 Trying to get people in and out of cars. Trying to get people in and out of cars.
1148 01:19:44,405 01:19:46,573 - 'Cause the truth is... - So slow... - 'Cause the truth is... - So slow...
1149 01:19:47,283 01:19:52,329 But you always want them to feel dynamic onscreen, so get the scissors in. But you always want them to feel dynamic onscreen, so get the scissors in.
1150 01:19:53,872 01:19:56,583 All units, we need help in the Adhamiya district. All units, we need help in the Adhamiya district.
1151 01:19:56,667 01:19:59,169 Copy that, MET Team. This is Vanguard 6 and TF221. Copy that, MET Team. This is Vanguard 6 and TF221.
1152 01:19:59,253 01:20:04,550 And we, to a lesser extent on this film than the past two Bourne films, And we, to a lesser extent on this film than the past two Bourne films,
1153 01:20:04,633 01:20:09,680 but still, he was there for a little while, Dan Bradley came. but still, he was there for a little while, Dan Bradley came.
1154 01:20:09,930 01:20:11,056 - -Yeah. - And... - -Yeah. - And...
1155 01:20:12,266 01:20:14,351 - Just when we needed him most, actually. - Yeah. - Just when we needed him most, actually. - Yeah.
1156 01:20:14,435 01:20:18,105 You know what I mean? He came in towards the end You know what I mean? He came in towards the end
1157 01:20:18,188 01:20:22,067 when we still had a mountain of action to climb when we still had a mountain of action to climb
1158 01:20:22,776 01:20:24,611 and not a lot of time to do it. and not a lot of time to do it.
1159 01:20:24,695 01:20:29,616 And just that huge, massive And just that huge, massive
1160 01:20:30,659 01:20:32,286 - energy... - Yes, yes. - energy... - Yes, yes.
1161 01:20:33,787 01:20:38,083 He helped us get over the line, actually, is the truth of it, isn't it? He helped us get over the line, actually, is the truth of it, isn't it?
1162 01:20:39,960 01:20:42,755 Now he's a first unit director, so hopefully we'll... Now he's a first unit director, so hopefully we'll...
1163 01:20:42,838 01:20:44,631 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1164 01:20:51,263 01:20:53,515 Yeah, he has Yeah, he has
1165 01:20:55,851 01:20:58,604 - done a lot for me. - Me, too. - done a lot for me. - Me, too.
1166 01:21:02,274 01:21:05,736 It's that old thing. As a director, you get given a lot of credit It's that old thing. As a director, you get given a lot of credit
1167 01:21:05,819 01:21:10,783 for a lot of things that belong to the people who work alongside you, in truth. for a lot of things that belong to the people who work alongside you, in truth.
1168 01:21:11,408 01:21:14,453 - Well, you get the blame, too. 80... - Yeah, that's true. - Well, you get the blame, too. 80... - Yeah, that's true.
1169 01:21:14,536 01:21:15,624 - -Yeah. In fact, what am I saying? - Yeah, - -Yeah. In fact, what am I saying? - Yeah,
1170 01:21:15,704 01:21:17,001 - I don't know what you're talking about. - Yeah. - I don't know what you're talking about. - Yeah.
1171 01:21:17,081 01:21:20,000 - Take the credit. - It was all my work, wasn't it? - Take the credit. - It was all my work, wasn't it?
1172 01:21:23,796 01:21:25,339 Well, now, we're into... Well, now, we're into...
1173 01:21:26,465 01:21:29,176 We're getting this chase into a good place, now. We're getting this chase into a good place, now.
1174 01:21:30,052 01:21:32,221 You know, you're setting up a fort, You know, you're setting up a fort,
1175 01:21:32,304 01:21:35,933 so there's gonna be a physical place where it's gonna take place. so there's gonna be a physical place where it's gonna take place.
1176 01:21:37,017 01:21:39,645 You've got your hero in great difficulty. You've got your hero in great difficulty.
1177 01:21:40,687 01:21:41,730 And... And...
1178 01:21:49,029 01:21:52,908 Briggs is onto you. And here come the cavalry. Briggs is onto you. And here come the cavalry.
1179 01:21:52,991 01:21:54,076 All the high-tech... All the high-tech...
1180 01:21:54,159 01:21:55,372 We're three klicks from target area. We're three klicks from target area.
1181 01:21:55,452 01:21:57,871 All right, put us down. Find an LZ a klick from here. All right, put us down. Find an LZ a klick from here.
1182 01:21:57,955 01:22:00,040 But again, it's playing with, But again, it's playing with,
1183 01:22:01,834 01:22:05,671 "Are we on their side? Are we on your side? Are you working together? Are you not?" "Are we on their side? Are we on your side? Are you working together? Are you not?"
1184 01:22:05,754 01:22:08,549 You know, it's the... You know, it's the...
1185 01:22:11,718 01:22:14,054 Hopefully, the feeling in this film Hopefully, the feeling in this film
1186 01:22:14,138 01:22:18,725 that you've got a driving, straight thriller premise, that you've got a driving, straight thriller premise,
1187 01:22:18,809 01:22:23,313 your hero's in jeopardy, people are coming, there's a bad guy he's gonna confront, your hero's in jeopardy, people are coming, there's a bad guy he's gonna confront,
1188 01:22:24,356 01:22:29,736 is pitted against... But the bad guys are the ones coming to get you out. is pitted against... But the bad guys are the ones coming to get you out.
1189 01:22:31,947 01:22:34,241 It's all a little bit unclear. It's all a little bit unclear.
1190 01:22:35,868 01:22:38,287 I like that in this film. I like that in this film.
1191 01:22:50,883 01:22:54,803 Jason wanted to do the going-down-the-rope thing for 50 feet, Jason wanted to do the going-down-the-rope thing for 50 feet,
1192 01:22:56,180 01:22:59,725 - but unfortunately... - We ran out of time. - but unfortunately... - We ran out of time.
1193 01:23:01,018 01:23:03,437 This is good. It's always... Yeah. This is good. It's always... Yeah.
1194 01:23:03,979 01:23:07,191 Whenever a teenager has a gun to your head, it's not a good thing. Whenever a teenager has a gun to your head, it's not a good thing.
1195 01:23:07,274 01:23:08,946 No, you don't know quite what's gonna happen. No, you don't know quite what's gonna happen.
1196 01:23:09,026 01:23:10,319 You don't know. You don't know.
1197 01:23:10,402 01:23:14,031 - I love this look from Yigal here. - Yeah, I know. - I love this look from Yigal here. - Yeah, I know.
1198 01:23:14,448 01:23:18,202 - He just looks at him, look. Yeah. - He just looks at him. - He just looks at him, look. Yeah. - He just looks at him.
1199 01:23:18,285 01:23:19,620 "Fuck off." "Fuck off."
1200 01:23:21,246 01:23:23,916 And he doesn't like it. It's like, And he doesn't like it. It's like,
1201 01:23:23,999 01:23:28,128 - "Have you got balls, or what?" Yeah. - There's nothing you can do. - "Have you got balls, or what?" Yeah. - There's nothing you can do.
1202 01:23:29,755 01:23:32,424 Yeah, Yigal was just... And look at how spare he is, Yeah, Yigal was just... And look at how spare he is,
1203 01:23:32,508 01:23:36,261 he just doesn't... There's no superfluous movement. he just doesn't... There's no superfluous movement.
1204 01:23:36,345 01:23:37,596 - -Yeah. - It's just... - -Yeah. - It's just...
1205 01:23:37,679 01:23:39,681 I'm a chief warrant officer with the US Army. I'm a chief warrant officer with the US Army.
1206 01:23:39,765 01:23:42,601 - Well, this is the sort of... - I found it really easy - Well, this is the sort of... - I found it really easy
1207 01:23:43,393 01:23:48,482 to play these scenes with him because he's just a very honest actor. to play these scenes with him because he's just a very honest actor.
1208 01:23:48,565 01:23:52,110 And if you look into his eyes, he's right there. And if you look into his eyes, he's right there.
1209 01:23:53,237 01:23:56,490 I really liked watching him. I really liked watching him.
1210 01:23:58,534 01:24:01,119 - He's Iraqi by birth. - Yeah. - He's Iraqi by birth. - Yeah.
1211 01:24:01,245 01:24:07,417 And he had a great love and understanding of the country. And he had a great love and understanding of the country.
1212 01:24:10,420 01:24:12,005 What programs? What programs?
1213 01:24:12,965 01:24:14,216 There are no programs. There are no programs.
1214 01:24:14,299 01:24:18,887 And I think somewhere in that conflicted, And I think somewhere in that conflicted,
1215 01:24:21,598 01:24:25,102 Iraqi-by-birth, but, obviously, having not grown up there, Iraqi-by-birth, but, obviously, having not grown up there,
1216 01:24:25,936 01:24:31,858 somewhere, that confusion, in a sense, he brought to that character. somewhere, that confusion, in a sense, he brought to that character.
1217 01:24:33,569 01:24:37,489 Because that character is a man Because that character is a man
1218 01:24:38,448 01:24:42,661 who grew up in the Ba'athist system. He's not a good man at all. who grew up in the Ba'athist system. He's not a good man at all.
1219 01:24:42,744 01:24:43,999 - Right. - He'd have had to have been - Right. - He'd have had to have been
1220 01:24:44,079 01:24:46,748 - a ruthless, ambitious careerist. - Absolutely, yeah. - a ruthless, ambitious careerist. - Absolutely, yeah.
1221 01:24:46,832 01:24:50,961 But he's not a psychopathic Saddamite. But he's not a psychopathic Saddamite.
1222 01:24:51,044 01:24:52,504 Right, right. Right, right.
1223 01:24:53,297 01:24:55,465 He would have had to have dealt with those people, He would have had to have dealt with those people,
1224 01:24:55,549 01:24:59,261 and he certainly prospered on them, but he didn't approve of them. and he certainly prospered on them, but he didn't approve of them.
1225 01:24:59,344 01:25:02,639 He's a nationalist. He's a strong... He's a nationalist. He's a strong...
1226 01:25:02,723 01:25:05,892 And he thought his moment had come, Al Rawi, didn't he? And he thought his moment had come, Al Rawi, didn't he?
1227 01:25:06,018 01:25:09,271 He thought he was gonna emerge as a leading player He thought he was gonna emerge as a leading player
1228 01:25:10,022 01:25:12,149 in post-invasion Iraq, in post-invasion Iraq,
1229 01:25:12,232 01:25:18,196 because he dealt with the US in advance. because he dealt with the US in advance.
1230 01:25:18,780 01:25:23,785 He tried to, in a sense, see which way the wind was blowing He tried to, in a sense, see which way the wind was blowing
1231 01:25:24,036 01:25:27,956 and play his cards accordingly. And, of course, he gets betrayed, and play his cards accordingly. And, of course, he gets betrayed,
1232 01:25:28,040 01:25:31,043 and you feel the real... and you feel the real...
1233 01:25:31,126 01:25:35,297 And what I liked was when we talked about when we did that scene, And what I liked was when we talked about when we did that scene,
1234 01:25:36,048 01:25:39,259 I think I'm giving him a piece of information that's... I think I'm giving him a piece of information that's...
1235 01:25:39,968 01:25:42,721 "No, but you see it's all been this horrible misunderstanding." "No, but you see it's all been this horrible misunderstanding."
1236 01:25:42,804 01:25:44,973 - Yeah, yeah. - But what he can speak to - Yeah, yeah. - But what he can speak to
1237 01:25:45,057 01:25:48,644 with absolute authority is the way that power works. with absolute authority is the way that power works.
1238 01:25:48,727 01:25:49,811 Yeah. Yeah.
1239 01:25:51,897 01:25:54,858 And it just dawns on me when he says, And it just dawns on me when he says,
1240 01:25:54,941 01:25:57,235 "They heard exactly what they wanted to hear." "They heard exactly what they wanted to hear."
1241 01:25:57,402 01:25:59,696 General, if you come in with me... General, if you come in with me...
1242 01:25:59,780 01:26:02,949 No, no, the film No, no, the film
1243 01:26:03,075 01:26:07,746 - is, in many ways, the education of Miller... - Yeah. - is, in many ways, the education of Miller... - Yeah.
1244 01:26:09,414 01:26:12,542 - ...to the realities of power. - Yeah. - ...to the realities of power. - Yeah.
1245 01:26:12,626 01:26:14,753 This is how it really works. This is how it really works.
1246 01:26:15,337 01:26:17,923 Look at Yigal here. I mean, he just... Look at Yigal here. I mean, he just...
1247 01:26:18,090 01:26:21,385 Why take Iraq apart piece by piece? Why take Iraq apart piece by piece?
1248 01:26:21,468 01:26:23,178 Just utterly believable. Just utterly believable.
1249 01:26:23,261 01:26:26,348 It's a great moment, though. I love the way your head goes down, It's a great moment, though. I love the way your head goes down,
1250 01:26:26,431 01:26:29,309 'cause it's sort of crushed you, too. You know what I mean? 'cause it's sort of crushed you, too. You know what I mean?
1251 01:26:29,434 01:26:31,061 - -Yeah. - You've gone in there, - -Yeah. - You've gone in there,
1252 01:26:31,144 01:26:32,729 "No, but wait! Hang on a second!" "No, but wait! Hang on a second!"
1253 01:26:32,813 01:26:34,526 -You know what I mean? It's like... Exactly. -You know what I mean? It's like... Exactly.
1254 01:26:34,606 01:26:38,860 "I've got this piece of information." And the other shoe drops. "I've got this piece of information." And the other shoe drops.
1255 01:26:38,944 01:26:41,571 And you're in a world of problems now. And you're in a world of problems now.
1256 01:26:41,655 01:26:44,616 So Where is my place, Mr. Miller? So Where is my place, Mr. Miller?
1257 01:26:45,283 01:26:47,119 "On a deck of cards?" I love the way... "On a deck of cards?" I love the way...
1258 01:26:47,953 01:26:51,164 And what I love about that, as well, is, he goes personal, doesn't he? And what I love about that, as well, is, he goes personal, doesn't he?
1259 01:26:51,289 01:26:53,253 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You feel there's a real personal - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You feel there's a real personal
1260 01:26:53,333 01:26:54,835 sense of betrayal. It's like... sense of betrayal. It's like...
1261 01:26:54,960 01:26:56,837 And his whole life had been leading up to this. And his whole life had been leading up to this.
1262 01:26:56,962 01:26:57,963 Yeah. Yeah.
1263 01:26:58,046 01:27:01,803 Finally, there's a place where this guy is positioned to... Finally, there's a place where this guy is positioned to...
1264 01:27:01,883 01:27:03,176 Take over. Take over.
1265 01:27:06,972 01:27:08,807 And now, he's gonna take it out on you. And now, he's gonna take it out on you.
1266 01:27:13,979 01:27:17,023 Quickly! The Americans are coming! Quickly! The Americans are coming!
1267 01:27:18,692 01:27:21,027 You know, these guys were all Special Forces, You know, these guys were all Special Forces,
1268 01:27:21,153 01:27:23,405 and Jason is utterly convincing. and Jason is utterly convincing.
1269 01:27:25,157 01:27:26,199 Utterly convincing. Utterly convincing.
1270 01:27:26,324 01:27:28,535 I mean, one of the best guys We ever heard do accents, I mean, one of the best guys We ever heard do accents,
1271 01:27:28,660 01:27:30,662 American accents, that is. American accents, that is.
1272 01:27:31,204 01:27:36,084 The accent that he's got in this movie, I would never know that he was English. The accent that he's got in this movie, I would never know that he was English.
1273 01:27:37,669 01:27:39,337 He just really has He just really has
1274 01:27:39,921 01:27:44,885 - got a real, real facility for that. - Yeah. - got a real, real facility for that. - Yeah.
1275 01:27:45,010 01:27:47,804 But the whole characterization is because he'd spent a lot of time But the whole characterization is because he'd spent a lot of time
1276 01:27:47,888 01:27:50,515 when he did Black Hawk Down, just the way he moves, when he did Black Hawk Down, just the way he moves,
1277 01:27:50,599 01:27:53,518 he's very, very physical, very convincing. he's very, very physical, very convincing.
1278 01:27:54,227 01:27:55,440 And wears a hell of a mustache. And wears a hell of a mustache.
1279 01:27:55,520 01:27:57,731 And wears a hell of a mustache, that's right. And wears a hell of a mustache, that's right.
1280 01:27:57,856 01:28:00,525 Pored over every detail with these guys Pored over every detail with these guys
1281 01:28:00,609 01:28:02,819 to make sure that there was not one little thing... to make sure that there was not one little thing...
1282 01:28:02,903 01:28:05,655 I always say that performances are about details, I always say that performances are about details,
1283 01:28:05,739 01:28:09,326 and he's just really wonderful in that way. and he's just really wonderful in that way.
1284 01:28:09,409 01:28:11,745 And, incidentally, the Special Forces guy on the set, And, incidentally, the Special Forces guy on the set,
1285 01:28:11,870 01:28:15,332 who was looking after us for security, had the same mustache. who was looking after us for security, had the same mustache.
1286 01:28:15,415 01:28:16,750 - So... - Yeah. - So... - Yeah.
1287 01:28:16,875 01:28:18,877 ...if you fight us. ...if you fight us.
1288 01:28:20,587 01:28:23,548 You have to come in now before it's too late. You have to come in now before it's too late.
1289 01:28:23,632 01:28:26,676 You think the war is over. You think the war is over.
1290 01:28:26,760 01:28:28,553 Now we're sort of, Now we're sort of,
1291 01:28:29,805 01:28:33,058 in terms of choreographing action, in terms of choreographing action,
1292 01:28:33,600 01:28:35,477 you're at the perfect moment you're at the perfect moment
1293 01:28:35,894 01:28:39,564 where you're gonna let it go. where you're gonna let it go.
1294 01:28:39,773 01:28:43,151 It's all been, really, for this build. And there you go. It's all been, really, for this build. And there you go.
1295 01:28:44,319 01:28:49,491 One by one, you see all of our guys throw themselves into the fight. One by one, you see all of our guys throw themselves into the fight.
1296 01:28:49,574 01:28:51,284 - -Yeah. - Join the fight. - -Yeah. - Join the fight.
1297 01:28:54,162 01:28:55,413 Grenade! Grenade!
1298 01:28:55,497 01:28:56,832 Go! Go! Go! Go!
1299 01:29:03,588 01:29:06,174 This is, again, one of those Rouse things where it's an eggy bit. This is, again, one of those Rouse things where it's an eggy bit.
1300 01:29:06,258 01:29:08,343 How do you get four guys with guns out of the room? How do you get four guys with guns out of the room?
1301 01:29:08,426 01:29:11,429 - -Yeah. - He may still be alive, and... - -Yeah. - He may still be alive, and...
1302 01:29:12,430 01:29:14,683 But that's just one of those... But that's just one of those...
1303 01:29:16,518 01:29:20,772 Well, often, I think, in these sorts of films, Well, often, I think, in these sorts of films,
1304 01:29:21,940 01:29:25,360 you reach moments like that where certain things have to happen, you reach moments like that where certain things have to happen,
1305 01:29:25,443 01:29:27,362 in terms of physicality. in terms of physicality.
1306 01:29:27,863 01:29:32,909 And it's very often the conviction with which you do them that carries them. And it's very often the conviction with which you do them that carries them.
1307 01:29:32,993 01:29:36,288 Rouse did a really good job of cutting back to all these other stories, Rouse did a really good job of cutting back to all these other stories,
1308 01:29:36,371 01:29:41,209 so there's a disorientation that you get because the chaos of battle has started. so there's a disorientation that you get because the chaos of battle has started.
1309 01:29:41,293 01:29:43,879 - -Yeah. - And that allows for a lot, too. - -Yeah. - And that allows for a lot, too.
1310 01:29:45,547 01:29:50,468 You can see a messy fight where these guys are digging at each other's eyes and... You can see a messy fight where these guys are digging at each other's eyes and...
1311 01:29:55,557 01:29:57,559 Come on! Move! Come on! Move!
1312 01:29:58,643 01:30:01,730 I mean, I always wanted this film to kind of... I mean, I always wanted this film to kind of...
1313 01:30:03,064 01:30:07,277 You've got to believe, "Okay, it's a story. It's not exactly how it happened." You've got to believe, "Okay, it's a story. It's not exactly how it happened."
1314 01:30:07,360 01:30:10,113 Although these sorts of things absolutely did happen. Although these sorts of things absolutely did happen.
1315 01:30:10,196 01:30:13,742 But I wanted it to feel like the insurgency had started, But I wanted it to feel like the insurgency had started,
1316 01:30:13,825 01:30:16,745 that somewhere, the stakes of the film that somewhere, the stakes of the film
1317 01:30:16,828 01:30:20,040 that you stated from the beginning, "Is this world..." that you stated from the beginning, "Is this world..."
1318 01:30:20,206 01:30:22,918 Okay, it happens to be Iraq, that's the world we're talking about. Okay, it happens to be Iraq, that's the world we're talking about.
1319 01:30:23,043 01:30:25,962 "Is this world gonna be okay or not?" "Is this world gonna be okay or not?"
1320 01:30:26,046 01:30:29,466 And you want to feel that the story that we're telling And you want to feel that the story that we're telling
1321 01:30:30,133 01:30:33,386 is intimately bound up with what's happening in the wider world, is intimately bound up with what's happening in the wider world,
1322 01:30:33,511 01:30:35,305 and this is it. and this is it.
1323 01:30:35,722 01:30:39,976 Al Rawi's thrown down. The Sunni insurgency's beginning, Al Rawi's thrown down. The Sunni insurgency's beginning,
1324 01:30:44,689 01:30:45,857 and now, and now,
1325 01:30:47,025 01:30:51,196 it feels to me like, morally, we're entering a different phase again. it feels to me like, morally, we're entering a different phase again.
1326 01:30:51,321 01:30:56,493 Because you're still determined to bring him in, Because you're still determined to bring him in,
1327 01:31:00,830 01:31:03,083 but to what end? Do you know what I mean? but to what end? Do you know what I mean?
1328 01:31:04,876 01:31:06,586 It's almost because It's almost because
1329 01:31:08,546 01:31:12,008 you've got to complete your mission, really, isn't it? you've got to complete your mission, really, isn't it?
1330 01:31:12,217 01:31:15,303 Yeah, I mean, as long as there is any chance Yeah, I mean, as long as there is any chance
1331 01:31:15,387 01:31:18,890 that he can be convinced to stand his men down... that he can be convinced to stand his men down...
1332 01:31:22,018 01:31:24,437 - Although, given CPA... - Or that bringing him in - Although, given CPA... - Or that bringing him in
1333 01:31:24,562 01:31:26,982 - -and telling the truth, I think is... - Yeah, yeah. - -and telling the truth, I think is... - Yeah, yeah.
1334 01:31:27,065 01:31:29,567 ...sort of where you're getting, aren't you? ...sort of where you're getting, aren't you?
1335 01:31:31,194 01:31:35,198 You know, I might not be able to solve the problems of the world, You know, I might not be able to solve the problems of the world,
1336 01:31:36,032 01:31:37,325 but that is my piece. but that is my piece.
1337 01:31:37,409 01:31:40,745 That's the piece I came for and that's the piece I'm gonna get. That's the piece I came for and that's the piece I'm gonna get.
1338 01:31:40,870 01:31:44,374 Right. It's like what we were talking about the other day. Right. It's like what we were talking about the other day.
1339 01:31:44,457 01:31:47,377 - I can't do anything about the big... - Yeah. - I can't do anything about the big... - Yeah.
1340 01:31:49,129 01:31:51,423 The larger forces at work here. The larger forces at work here.
1341 01:31:56,594 01:31:58,555 It's amazing. When you... It's amazing. When you...
1342 01:32:00,390 01:32:04,978 People who don't watch this DVD wonder what, say, People who don't watch this DVD wonder what, say,
1343 01:32:05,103 01:32:08,523 you and I spend a lot of our time talking about during the making of a film. you and I spend a lot of our time talking about during the making of a film.
1344 01:32:08,606 01:32:10,942 Yeah, some of it will be technical issues. Yeah, some of it will be technical issues.
1345 01:32:11,067 01:32:14,112 But, yeah, and there's always that sort of But, yeah, and there's always that sort of
1346 01:32:16,072 01:32:18,158 joke shtick about, "What's my motivation?" joke shtick about, "What's my motivation?"
1347 01:32:18,283 01:32:22,078 But the truth is, trying to piece together, But the truth is, trying to piece together,
1348 01:32:23,329 01:32:29,419 together, a director and an actor, in any given situation, together, a director and an actor, in any given situation,
1349 01:32:29,502 01:32:32,714 trying to find out why you're doing what you're doing trying to find out why you're doing what you're doing
1350 01:32:32,797 01:32:35,341 and what you're aiming for, and what you're gonna get out of it, and what you're aiming for, and what you're gonna get out of it,
1351 01:32:35,467 01:32:38,553 and what that will give you to go to the next scene and what that will give you to go to the next scene
1352 01:32:38,636 01:32:40,263 is a huge part of it. is a huge part of it.
1353 01:32:40,346 01:32:43,892 Because if you can piece those pieces together, Because if you can piece those pieces together,
1354 01:32:43,975 01:32:46,272 and they're often very conflicting... It's never clear, is it? and they're often very conflicting... It's never clear, is it?
1355 01:32:46,352 01:32:50,940 Sometimes. But a lot of the time, in the really big stuff, it isn't clear, Sometimes. But a lot of the time, in the really big stuff, it isn't clear,
1356 01:32:51,024 01:32:53,651 or it's contradictory or it's duplicator y. or it's contradictory or it's duplicator y.
1357 01:32:53,777 01:32:57,822 But if you can get some clarity, that's the foundation stone, isn't it, But if you can get some clarity, that's the foundation stone, isn't it,
1358 01:32:58,323 01:33:02,118 for a film that feels right. for a film that feels right.
1359 01:33:03,036 01:33:04,954 - You know? - Yeah, yeah. - You know? - Yeah, yeah.
1360 01:33:06,331 01:33:10,335 It goes back to that point about the writer will have had a go It goes back to that point about the writer will have had a go
1361 01:33:10,460 01:33:13,755 at solving those problems, and will have solved some of them, at solving those problems, and will have solved some of them,
1362 01:33:13,838 01:33:17,175 and others of them will have offered a fix to those problems. and others of them will have offered a fix to those problems.
1363 01:33:17,300 01:33:21,846 And then you take that, and during the process of making it, And then you take that, and during the process of making it,
1364 01:33:21,971 01:33:25,141 you explore those solutions. you explore those solutions.
1365 01:33:25,225 01:33:29,229 And some of them hold good, and some of them you shift and amend. And some of them hold good, and some of them you shift and amend.
1366 01:33:29,854 01:33:32,107 And that's basically the way a film's made, isn't it? And that's basically the way a film's made, isn't it?
1367 01:33:32,190 01:33:35,485 It's a constant process of going down a tunnel It's a constant process of going down a tunnel
1368 01:33:36,653 01:33:38,404 further and further, further and further,
1369 01:33:39,989 01:33:41,491 collectively, collectively,
1370 01:33:42,325 01:33:46,329 to find a truth. That's what you're aiming at. to find a truth. That's what you're aiming at.
1371 01:33:46,412 01:33:51,042 And when films work, somewhere, collectively, And when films work, somewhere, collectively,
1372 01:33:52,585 01:33:54,796 it all feels purposeful. it all feels purposeful.
1373 01:33:54,879 01:33:58,007 And you get to the end and go, "Oh, yeah, I get it." And you get to the end and go, "Oh, yeah, I get it."
1374 01:34:00,718 01:34:03,721 But it rarely feels like that when you're in the middle of it, does it? But it rarely feels like that when you're in the middle of it, does it?
1375 01:34:03,847 01:34:06,766 Well, certainly, this one was very tricky. Well, certainly, this one was very tricky.
1376 01:34:06,891 01:34:08,893 No, I mean, we really... No, I mean, we really...
1377 01:34:10,228 01:34:12,147 There were some things we knew the whole time There were some things we knew the whole time
1378 01:34:12,230 01:34:14,315 and we definitely knew going in, and we definitely knew going in,
1379 01:34:14,399 01:34:17,735 and then there were just some things that we didn't. and then there were just some things that we didn't.
1380 01:34:17,944 01:34:22,782 And you're very inhibited, inevitably, by the real-world aspects And you're very inhibited, inevitably, by the real-world aspects
1381 01:34:22,907 01:34:25,451 and the sensitivities of the war. and the sensitivities of the war.
1382 01:34:25,577 01:34:30,707 So we were talking about real soldiers. That's why they were there. To constantly... So we were talking about real soldiers. That's why they were there. To constantly...
1383 01:34:31,040 01:34:34,294 The fact that this was occurring in Iraq, The fact that this was occurring in Iraq,
1384 01:34:34,419 01:34:37,088 so there were sensitivities there... so there were sensitivities there...
1385 01:34:40,633 01:34:46,306 It's not easy making a piece of fiction this close to the real world, It's not easy making a piece of fiction this close to the real world,
1386 01:34:46,431 01:34:50,727 using this many elements that are, in truth, drawn from the real world, using this many elements that are, in truth, drawn from the real world,
1387 01:34:51,603 01:34:55,648 spun around in a way that will support spun around in a way that will support
1388 01:34:57,483 01:35:00,320 a thriller, and yet be true to that world, a thriller, and yet be true to that world,
1389 01:35:01,779 01:35:06,659 sensitive to that world, but also give an audience, that are gonna watch it, sensitive to that world, but also give an audience, that are gonna watch it,
1390 01:35:06,784 01:35:12,373 the feeling that they're gonna be rewarded by watching it in every way. the feeling that they're gonna be rewarded by watching it in every way.
1391 01:35:12,457 01:35:17,629 It's gonna be a cinematic experience. It's gonna have a ride element like this. It's gonna be a cinematic experience. It's gonna have a ride element like this.
1392 01:35:18,963 01:35:21,007 You're gonna feel that you're... You're gonna feel that you're...
1393 01:35:22,634 01:35:25,261 It's been worth you watching this thing. It's been worth you watching this thing.
1394 01:35:25,345 01:35:30,558 And it felt, didn't it, like there were a lot of factors And it felt, didn't it, like there were a lot of factors
1395 01:35:30,642 01:35:34,437 - that we had to steer through. - Yeah, definitely, definitely. - that we had to steer through. - Yeah, definitely, definitely.
1396 01:35:35,438 01:35:38,358 And a couple paths we had to half-head down. And a couple paths we had to half-head down.
1397 01:35:38,483 01:35:39,525 Yeah. Yeah.
1398 01:35:42,195 01:35:43,655 Double back. Double back.
1399 01:35:46,157 01:35:48,618 So it's now we should thank the studio. So it's now we should thank the studio.
1400 01:35:48,701 01:35:50,912 - Listen, it... - Yeah. - Listen, it... - Yeah.
1401 01:35:50,995 01:35:55,166 Again, people watching this, Again, people watching this,
1402 01:35:57,168 01:36:02,257 you've gotta have nerves of steel, I think, to run those studios, you've gotta have nerves of steel, I think, to run those studios,
1403 01:36:03,174 01:36:06,135 and some pretty big balls. I mean, to make... and some pretty big balls. I mean, to make...
1404 01:36:07,929 01:36:11,432 To take the proposition that you and I, out of Bourne Ultimatum, To take the proposition that you and I, out of Bourne Ultimatum,
1405 01:36:11,516 01:36:16,354 are gonna go and make a film, a substantial film, set in Iraq are gonna go and make a film, a substantial film, set in Iraq
1406 01:36:16,437 01:36:20,525 at the outset of the war on quite a controversial topic, at the outset of the war on quite a controversial topic,
1407 01:36:20,608 01:36:24,779 and that we're gonna try and hone, somewhere out of that, and that we're gonna try and hone, somewhere out of that,
1408 01:36:24,862 01:36:29,450 really, pretty unappealing territory from a studio, really, pretty unappealing territory from a studio,
1409 01:36:31,286 01:36:35,290 a thriller that a broad audience is gonna watch... a thriller that a broad audience is gonna watch...
1410 01:36:35,373 01:36:39,043 We're going to try and say to the Bourne audience, effectively, We're going to try and say to the Bourne audience, effectively,
1411 01:36:39,127 01:36:43,214 "You enjoyed those films, come with us and take a step into the real world" "You enjoyed those films, come with us and take a step into the real world"
1412 01:36:43,339 01:36:46,634 and see if that can be made to work, and see if that can be made to work,
1413 01:36:46,718 01:36:49,554 - that's a big bet. - Right. - that's a big bet. - Right.
1414 01:36:49,679 01:36:51,639 And then you add to that And then you add to that
1415 01:36:53,308 01:36:59,147 the many difficulties that you find on a film like that or like this. the many difficulties that you find on a film like that or like this.
1416 01:36:59,230 01:37:01,819 As you say, you go down roads, it doesn't quite work, As you say, you go down roads, it doesn't quite work,
1417 01:37:01,899 01:37:03,735 you have to come back. you have to come back.
1418 01:37:06,070 01:37:09,240 It says a lot for them that we did it It says a lot for them that we did it
1419 01:37:11,868 01:37:13,790 - and there were no cross words, really. - No, no, no. - and there were no cross words, really. - No, no, no.
1420 01:37:13,870 01:37:16,247 I mean, I'm sure there were days when they were anxious. I mean, I'm sure there were days when they were anxious.
1421 01:37:16,331 01:37:19,083 Certainly were days when you and I were. Certainly were days when you and I were.
1422 01:37:21,252 01:37:25,173 But when you get to this moment in the film, But when you get to this moment in the film,
1423 01:37:26,257 01:37:29,844 I always go, "Well, we did it." I always go, "Well, we did it."
1424 01:37:30,219 01:37:34,682 We got to a great ending, a confrontation, We got to a great ending, a confrontation,
1425 01:37:40,271 01:37:43,566 with a great question from Yigal with a great question from Yigal
1426 01:37:45,026 01:37:47,195 - which can't be answered. - Right. - which can't be answered. - Right.
1427 01:37:48,780 01:37:52,867 And a great statement of Freddy's belief. And a great statement of Freddy's belief.
1428 01:37:53,117 01:37:55,286 What the fuck did you do? What the fuck did you do?
1429 01:37:55,370 01:37:59,874 Which, in a way, completes the education of Miller, Which, in a way, completes the education of Miller,
1430 01:38:00,375 01:38:01,667 - -I always think. - Yeah, yeah. - -I always think. - Yeah, yeah.
1431 01:38:01,793 01:38:03,961 It is not for you to decide what happens here. It is not for you to decide what happens here.
1432 01:38:15,723 01:38:17,892 I love that look. It's like, I love that look. It's like,
1433 01:38:22,814 01:38:24,732 "It's done." "It's done."
1434 01:38:27,819 01:38:30,405 Get out of here, Freddy. Go home. Get out of here, Freddy. Go home.
1435 01:38:31,489 01:38:35,827 And you slightly amended your performance in that line, And you slightly amended your performance in that line,
1436 01:38:35,952 01:38:40,581 and I think it gave it a little more humanity. I thought it was a good call of yours, that. and I think it gave it a little more humanity. I thought it was a good call of yours, that.
1437 01:38:48,256 01:38:50,800 It was a great moment. It was a great moment.
1438 01:38:57,849 01:39:00,935 The quest for the truth. The quest for the man. The quest for the truth. The quest for the man.
1439 01:39:01,978 01:39:05,189 You fail him, don't you? But you do get the truth. You fail him, don't you? But you do get the truth.
1440 01:39:10,695 01:39:12,447 And that's the... And that's the...
1441 01:39:13,364 01:39:19,036 In a way, I wanted that to prefigure what happened. In a way, I wanted that to prefigure what happened.
1442 01:39:20,955 01:39:22,957 The long war of attrition The long war of attrition
1443 01:39:25,376 01:39:30,047 that was fought to try and stabilize Iraq. that was fought to try and stabilize Iraq.
1444 01:39:34,552 01:39:38,806 But along the way, for all of that, But along the way, for all of that,
1445 01:39:41,225 01:39:43,144 the truth has been told. the truth has been told.
1446 01:39:58,075 01:40:01,662 Tricky issue here, in terms of finishing this film. Tricky issue here, in terms of finishing this film.
1447 01:40:01,746 01:40:05,917 I mean, there always are in these sorts of thrillers, aren't there? I mean, there always are in these sorts of thrillers, aren't there?
1448 01:40:06,000 01:40:08,085 How you pay characters off. How you pay characters off.
1449 01:40:08,211 01:40:10,671 Who's gonna kill who in exactly what sequence, Who's gonna kill who in exactly what sequence,
1450 01:40:10,755 01:40:15,676 and what does that mean? And small changes can mean everything. and what does that mean? And small changes can mean everything.
1451 01:40:15,760 01:40:17,428 We never wanted We never wanted
1452 01:40:19,889 01:40:22,433 Briggs, and we've actually not mentioned that. Briggs, and we've actually not mentioned that.
1453 01:40:23,434 01:40:27,522 At the maximum moment, when you've tackled Briggs, At the maximum moment, when you've tackled Briggs,
1454 01:40:27,605 01:40:29,440 - Briggs could kill you. - Right. - Briggs could kill you. - Right.
1455 01:40:29,524 01:40:32,193 -But he does not, because... Exactly. -But he does not, because... Exactly.
1456 01:40:32,276 01:40:34,490 ...an American soldier would not kill an American soldier. ...an American soldier would not kill an American soldier.
1457 01:40:34,570 01:40:35,613 That's right. That's right.
1458 01:40:35,696 01:40:39,450 This is not one of those sorts of movies. That's a code that he couldn't break. This is not one of those sorts of movies. That's a code that he couldn't break.
1459 01:40:39,575 01:40:43,079 He's come to get Al Rawi. You're not the point. He's come to get Al Rawi. You're not the point.
1460 01:40:45,957 01:40:49,627 In a way, that choice of his is actually what causes him to die. In a way, that choice of his is actually what causes him to die.
1461 01:40:49,710 01:40:50,962 Right. Right.
1462 01:40:51,087 01:40:53,798 You don't kill him, he doesn't kill you. You don't kill him, he doesn't kill you.
1463 01:40:55,049 01:40:57,218 And we debated that endlessly. And we debated that endlessly.
1464 01:40:57,301 01:41:00,304 There was a version of this film where you could've gone man-to-man with him There was a version of this film where you could've gone man-to-man with him
1465 01:41:00,429 01:41:02,974 or he could've gone man-to-man with you. or he could've gone man-to-man with you.
1466 01:41:03,057 01:41:06,811 You're having to work those sorts of resolution issues out. You're having to work those sorts of resolution issues out.
1467 01:41:06,894 01:41:08,232 And there's another big problem here, And there's another big problem here,
1468 01:41:08,312 01:41:11,983 which is, a film like this demands you confront the bad guy. which is, a film like this demands you confront the bad guy.
1469 01:41:12,108 01:41:13,150 Right. Right.
1470 01:41:14,777 01:41:17,200 But you don't actually have any cards in your locker at this point, But you don't actually have any cards in your locker at this point,
1471 01:41:17,280 01:41:19,657 'cause Al Rawi's dead, so you can't bring him down. 'cause Al Rawi's dead, so you can't bring him down.
1472 01:41:19,782 01:41:21,867 Which is what he tells me. Which is what he tells me.
1473 01:41:21,951 01:41:24,161 - But it's a great scene. - Yeah. - But it's a great scene. - Yeah.
1474 01:41:24,245 01:41:26,205 It's my favorite scene. It's my favorite scene.
1475 01:41:26,289 01:41:28,749 Yeah, I like it, too. I just remember just... Yeah, I like it, too. I just remember just...
1476 01:41:28,833 01:41:30,671 This was kind of towards the end of the schedule, This was kind of towards the end of the schedule,
1477 01:41:30,751 01:41:34,380 and I remember thinking about all those guys and the tours they served and I remember thinking about all those guys and the tours they served
1478 01:41:38,050 01:41:40,928 and the weapons weren't there, you know? and the weapons weren't there, you know?
1479 01:41:43,347 01:41:46,809 And some of them... It's just... And some of them... It's just...
1480 01:41:48,227 01:41:54,775 To wear that uniform and play that moment was... I felt very... To wear that uniform and play that moment was... I felt very...
1481 01:41:56,569 01:41:58,362 Full of responsibility, I think, there. Full of responsibility, I think, there.
1482 01:41:58,446 01:42:00,239 - In a good way or... - In a good way, yeah. - In a good way or... - In a good way, yeah.
1483 01:42:00,323 01:42:01,907 I mean, I wanted to do that. I mean, I wanted to do that.
1484 01:42:03,951 01:42:08,164 Like most people, I was, I think, a little pissed off about the whole thing. Like most people, I was, I think, a little pissed off about the whole thing.
1485 01:42:08,247 01:42:10,374 - More than a little bit. - Yeah. - More than a little bit. - Yeah.
1486 01:42:10,458 01:42:14,378 And what they're saying in the scene, by the end of the scene... And what they're saying in the scene, by the end of the scene...
1487 01:42:16,422 01:42:19,383 Yeah, he's pissed off. He's furious. People have died, Yeah, he's pissed off. He's furious. People have died,
1488 01:42:20,926 01:42:22,803 and the reasons matter. and the reasons matter.
1489 01:42:23,346 01:42:25,139 - The reasons matter. - Yeah, no, 1... - The reasons matter. - Yeah, no, 1...
1490 01:42:25,222 01:42:31,103 I agree, and I think what's interesting is it's the moment when the two processes, I agree, and I think what's interesting is it's the moment when the two processes,
1491 01:42:31,187 01:42:36,233 the process of creating a fictional genre-thriller the process of creating a fictional genre-thriller
1492 01:42:37,151 01:42:41,072 perfectly align up with the real world. perfectly align up with the real world.
1493 01:42:42,073 01:42:47,036 And he perfectly expresses there, Poundstone, And he perfectly expresses there, Poundstone,
1494 01:42:47,662 01:42:50,915 the basic view, which is that the ends justified the means. the basic view, which is that the ends justified the means.
1495 01:42:50,998 01:42:55,628 It doesn't matter how we got there, it was a necessary thing to do, It doesn't matter how we got there, it was a necessary thing to do,
1496 01:42:56,629 01:42:58,381 and we won. and we won.
1497 01:42:59,632 01:43:01,676 But the point is, if you're... But the point is, if you're...
1498 01:43:01,759 01:43:04,470 As we found in dealing with a lot of those soldiers, As we found in dealing with a lot of those soldiers,
1499 01:43:06,347 01:43:09,892 that it doesn't quite feel that way if you're the guy asked to go and shoot that it doesn't quite feel that way if you're the guy asked to go and shoot
1500 01:43:09,975 01:43:11,686 - or be shot. - Right. - or be shot. - Right.
1501 01:43:12,311 01:43:16,691 "It's one thing to be told, " We've gotta do this because of X ' 'Y' and 'Z. "It's one thing to be told, " We've gotta do this because of X ' 'Y' and 'Z.
1502 01:43:16,774 01:43:21,487 It's another thing to be told, "It's all about WMD," and they're not there. It's another thing to be told, "It's all about WMD," and they're not there.
1503 01:43:23,531 01:43:27,868 And in any case, as this film shows, then it all went wrong. And in any case, as this film shows, then it all went wrong.
1504 01:43:34,834 01:43:37,211 But I was always very... But I was always very...
1505 01:43:37,294 01:43:40,131 Well, we've had this discussion many times, haven't we? Well, we've had this discussion many times, haven't we?
1506 01:43:40,214 01:43:43,592 You can't let a film You can't let a film
1507 01:43:44,885 01:43:47,763 end on a downer. 1 never felt like this film should, end on a downer. 1 never felt like this film should,
1508 01:43:47,847 01:43:50,933 or any film, actually, that I've ever made, end on a downer. or any film, actually, that I've ever made, end on a downer.
1509 01:43:52,059 01:43:56,063 The truth is, in those five or six years since these events, The truth is, in those five or six years since these events,
1510 01:44:02,194 01:44:07,158 the truth has come out. And it's come out, as this scene really embodies, the truth has come out. And it's come out, as this scene really embodies,
1511 01:44:07,700 01:44:13,205 because insiders like Miller, and there are many, many of them, because insiders like Miller, and there are many, many of them,
1512 01:44:13,289 01:44:20,045 have, over the past five or six years, interacted with a press that has, in a sense, have, over the past five or six years, interacted with a press that has, in a sense,
1513 01:44:20,129 01:44:25,217 redeemed its problems prior to 2003. redeemed its problems prior to 2003.
1514 01:44:26,218 01:44:29,346 That's why all those publications are there, That's why all those publications are there,
1515 01:44:29,430 01:44:33,726 because they've all played a very pronounced role because they've all played a very pronounced role
1516 01:44:35,478 01:44:39,648 in exploring what really happened and the mistakes that were made. in exploring what really happened and the mistakes that were made.
1517 01:44:39,732 01:44:43,027 And in that process, you heal and move on, you know? And in that process, you heal and move on, you know?
1518 01:44:44,028 01:44:46,155 - And that's redeeming, I think. - Yeah. - And that's redeeming, I think. - Yeah.
1519 01:44:51,160 01:44:54,747 That's kind of the note I think you want to strike at the end. That's kind of the note I think you want to strike at the end.
1520 01:44:58,959 01:45:01,173 - It was a lot of work, though, wasn't it? - Oh, God, yes. - It was a lot of work, though, wasn't it? - Oh, God, yes.
1521 01:45:01,253 01:45:03,088 - -Hard movie. - That was a tough one. - -Hard movie. - That was a tough one.
1522 01:45:03,881 01:45:06,008 - But I'm very proud of it. - Me, too. - But I'm very proud of it. - Me, too.
1523 01:45:06,091 01:45:08,594 And of everybody who worked on it. And of everybody who worked on it.
1524 01:45:09,470 01:45:10,888 Particularly you, my man. Particularly you, my man.
1525 01:45:10,971 01:45:14,141 That was a hell of a burden you had to take there. That was a hell of a burden you had to take there.
1526 01:45:15,518 01:45:17,144 No, man, that was a... No, man, that was a...
1527 01:45:19,271 01:45:20,940 - That was a tough one. - Yeah. - That was a tough one. - Yeah.
1528 01:45:22,191 01:45:24,777 Well directed, man. Very, very well directed. Well directed, man. Very, very well directed.
1529 01:45:24,860 01:45:26,111 - Again. - There was a lot of... - Again. - There was a lot of...
1530 01:45:26,195 01:45:29,240 The things you're never supposed to say in these things, huh? The things you're never supposed to say in these things, huh?
1531 01:45:29,323 01:45:31,579 The little things where you go, "Well, that didn't quite work." The little things where you go, "Well, that didn't quite work."
1532 01:45:31,659 01:45:33,289 - -You know what I mean? Like... - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - -You know what I mean? Like... - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1533 01:45:33,369 01:45:34,623 Like when you were put in that car. Like when you were put in that car.
1534 01:45:34,703 01:45:36,747 I always look at that and I think, "Oh, my God. I always look at that and I think, "Oh, my God.
1535 01:45:36,831 01:45:39,333 "I under-covered that." And we were short of time. "I under-covered that." And we were short of time.
1536 01:45:39,416 01:45:42,002 It was a lot of ragged pieces. It was a lot of ragged pieces.
1537 01:45:42,086 01:45:44,129 But in the end, But in the end,
1538 01:45:48,425 01:45:52,721 we, I, you and I, we wanted to make a film we, I, you and I, we wanted to make a film
1539 01:45:54,098 01:45:57,601 set in that world that people would actually go and see. set in that world that people would actually go and see.
1540 01:45:57,685 01:45:58,936 That was it, really, wasn't it? That was it, really, wasn't it?
1541 01:45:59,019 01:46:01,856 - Definitely. - You know what I mean? - Definitely. - You know what I mean?
1542 01:46:01,939 01:46:05,025 There have been lots and lots of wonderful, wonderful films There have been lots and lots of wonderful, wonderful films
1543 01:46:06,151 01:46:07,528 about Iraq... about Iraq...
1544 01:46:08,779 01:46:11,740 Tell you one thing I do think. It's very easy... Tell you one thing I do think. It's very easy...
1545 01:46:11,824 01:46:14,702 It's often said, "Iraq films, they don't work at the box office," It's often said, "Iraq films, they don't work at the box office,"
1546 01:46:14,785 01:46:16,745 as if that suddenly dismisses them all. as if that suddenly dismisses them all.
1547 01:46:16,829 01:46:21,625 I mean, the truth is, as an industry, I think... I mean, it's across the board. I mean, the truth is, as an industry, I think... I mean, it's across the board.
1548 01:46:21,709 01:46:25,212 Our industry, Hollywood, whatever you want to call it, Our industry, Hollywood, whatever you want to call it,
1549 01:46:25,296 01:46:26,801 I think stepped up to the plate pretty well. I think stepped up to the plate pretty well.
1550 01:46:26,881 01:46:29,049 There've been a lot of movies made about Iraq, There've been a lot of movies made about Iraq,
1551 01:46:29,133 01:46:34,138 and some of them have not worked so well at the box office, and some of them have not worked so well at the box office,
1552 01:46:34,221 01:46:36,473 but as an experience, but as an experience,
1553 01:46:38,434 01:46:40,394 the movie industry has tried to engage with it. the movie industry has tried to engage with it.
1554 01:46:40,477 01:46:43,355 It's a huge issue that's driven our world, It's a huge issue that's driven our world,
1555 01:46:43,439 01:46:47,484 and there've been lots and lots of different sorts of movies made. and there've been lots and lots of different sorts of movies made.
1556 01:46:49,320 01:46:53,991 And our bit of it was to try and make one that could, And our bit of it was to try and make one that could,
1557 01:46:54,074 01:46:59,163 in our type of story and in our choice of how we told the story, in our type of story and in our choice of how we told the story,
1558 01:46:59,246 01:47:01,957 that we could actually try and get a bigger audience that we could actually try and get a bigger audience
1559 01:47:02,041 01:47:05,920 to come and feel rewarded by it. And I think... to come and feel rewarded by it. And I think...
1560 01:47:07,755 01:47:11,342 I think when I'm hanging up my boots at this game, I think when I'm hanging up my boots at this game,
1561 01:47:12,009 01:47:14,011 I should be pretty proud of that. I should be pretty proud of that.
1562 01:47:15,012 01:47:16,680 Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
1563 01:47:16,764 01:47:20,225 Proud of the fact of it and hopefully proud of the reality of it. Proud of the fact of it and hopefully proud of the reality of it.
1564 01:47:20,309 01:47:22,353 I hope people do go see it. I hope people do go see it.
1565 01:47:22,686 01:47:25,189 So, Bourne IV in Afghanistan? So, Bourne IV in Afghanistan?
1566 01:47:28,525 01:47:31,236 I'll tell you what. If people aren't going to see it, I'll tell you what. If people aren't going to see it,
1567 01:47:31,320 01:47:34,281 we'll just take it back and then we'll re-title it. we'll just take it back and then we'll re-title it.
1568 01:47:36,075 01:47:38,827 Bourne in Baghdad. Put it out. Bourne in Baghdad. Put it out.
1569 01:47:39,244 01:47:43,791 - I think they've already got that title covered. - Then we can keep working. - I think they've already got that title covered. - Then we can keep working.
1570 01:47:45,334 01:47:48,003 Well, well done, man. Just a terrific job. Well, well done, man. Just a terrific job.
1571 01:47:48,087 01:47:50,756 - Terrific job, I'm really proud of it. - Well done, yeah. - Terrific job, I'm really proud of it. - Well done, yeah.
1572 01:47:50,839 01:47:55,260 We made the movie we wanted to make, and I hope it lasts. We made the movie we wanted to make, and I hope it lasts.
1573 01:47:55,594 01:47:58,430 - And well done to the studio. - Definitely. Definitely. - And well done to the studio. - Definitely. Definitely.
1574 01:47:58,555 01:48:02,393 - And Working Title. Both of them. - Tough pill to swallow. - And Working Title. Both of them. - Tough pill to swallow.
1575 01:48:03,602 01:48:05,980 We'll get your money back, guys. We'll get your money back, guys.
1576 01:48:06,063 01:48:07,648 - We hope. - We really will. - We hope. - We really will.