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- So my name's Paul Greengrass.
- And my name is Matt Damon.
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Well, Green Zone started for me
when we were doing,
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or towards the end of when
we were making Bourne Supremacy.
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- Ultimatum?
- No, Supremacy.
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After it came out, I sat down with Universal,
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and they said,
"Well, what do you wanna do next?"
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And I said I wanted to do 9/11
and the war in Iraq,
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because they were the two great events
that seemed to me
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to be driving the world we were living in.
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And I thought, at that time, it was gonna be
one film, but in fact it turned out to be two.
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The first one, obviously, United 93,
then we did Ultimatum,
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and then we started
what became Green Zone.
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And I think, for me, what was interesting
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when we were doing the Bourne films,
and particularly Ultimatum,
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was that sense that there was
a huge audience that loved those films
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that came to the Bourne films
and loved the attitude of the films,
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and the fact that it was Bourne world,
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but it seemed to draw on the real world
and what was going on,
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and the kind of paranoia and the mistrust.
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And so when I look back now
at Green Zone, it feels to me
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like we were really asking that audience
to take one more step,
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and that would be the step
back to the real world,
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to really go back to the moment
when all this paranoia and mistrust began.
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And that, I think, was the circumstances
that surrounded the decision
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to go to war
and the start of the war in Baghdad.
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And, I think, all of us,
whatever you think of that conflict,
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whatever point of view you have
about what happened,
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know that those events in 2003
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were very profound in shaping our world.
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As we look at a beautiful effects shot
by Peter Chiang. One of many.
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Yeah.
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Approaching target site three-five-niner.
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Really, the first idea that we discussed
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was to make us a film about a US soldier
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involved in the hunt for WMD.
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And I think what drew us both, really,
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was the idea
that you could have an ordinary guy,
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a hero at the heart of the story,
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who comes to Iraq
to do a straightforward job.
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He comes because he's told that there
are WMD there, and he's gonna find them.
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Very much, actually,
like the story of Monty Gonzales,
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who was our technical advisor,
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and who this character is loosely based on.
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What the fuck are all these looters
doing here?
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Monty believed very much
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that they would find weapons
when he went looking for them.
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We got a sniper in this tower right here.
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- In the big tower on the back?
- In the big tower on the back.
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I think I say in the movie that this is the
third site or the fourth site that we've hit,
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but Monty, in fact, told me
he knew after the very first site
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that there was nothing there.
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I don't know what these people
are carrying out right now.
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And so, for people like Monty,
who were absolute believers
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and career military people,
it was a really
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particularly tough experience.
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Here's Where we are right now.
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I mean, this first section here, when
Miller takes the guys into the Diwaniya site,
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I mean, in a way, he's on the same journey
that we all were on.
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I mean, certainly, I remember it.
We all, in a sense, went to Iraq
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expecting that they would find
the weapons of mass destruction.
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Certainly I did. I assumed
that within a matter of days
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they'd be holding
a massive press conference
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having found some
horrendous weapons stash.
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And really, this first section is to
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take the central character
on that same journey.
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- They will take you in.
- Roger that, Chief.
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- All right. We ready?
- Yes, sir!
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Let's go. Go!
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As well, obviously, as to start the film,
pitching you into the conflict straightaway.
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Where is he?
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He's right up there,
but we can't get down the alley.
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I mean, the interesting thing,
from my point of view, when we first started,
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was that for the longest time, I was
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trying to develop a story
that would be about a character
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who became, obviously, Miller,
who was involved in the hunt for WMD.
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But it always seemed, to me, to get so far.
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He'd be a character who'd find
that the weapons weren't there,
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and then he would start to ask questions,
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and that would start to sort of pitch you
into, basically, a conspiracy thriller.
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But it always felt to me
about halfway through,
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this is in the early stages
of developing the piece,
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that it ran out of steam.
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And that was when I read a book
that had a very big impact on me,
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Imperial Life in the Emerald City by Rajiv.
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And that book really described
the world of the Green Zone
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and the kind of absolute mismatch
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between what was being planned
in Washington and London
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and what was actually happening
on the ground in the heart of Baghdad.
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And that's really where, for me,
the film started to take root,
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because you could see that Miller
would have to travel to the Green Zone,
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and there he'd find his answers,
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and that gave, in my imagination,
something to aim at.
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And obviously, Brian Helgeland,
who wrote the screenplay...
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It's not an adaptation of the book.
Far from it. It's Brian's story.
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But it was those two elements
coming together,
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the hunt for WMD, a man on a noble mission
believing that they're there,
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finding they're not there, asking questions,
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and then being propelled
into the Green Zone,
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that's really the story.
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Now you heard Chief. Get ready.
Roll those seals tight.
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Yeah, I just love the energy
of this opening, too,
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and it kind of drives home that point.
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The military will go where you tell them
to go and take these incredible risks
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and do it together in a very courageous way,
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and so you gotta make sure you're sending
them to the right place for the right reason.
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I mean, I think we were all, weren't we,
very lucky in this film
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- to have all these soldiers that you can see.
- Yeah.
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They were all Iraqi vets,
and in some cases, continuing to serve.
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As an actor, that was the big thing.
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I mean, normally,
we get one technical adviser.
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We had 30 of them there,
because these guys had all just come back.
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Some of them had seen
some pretty heavy combat.
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And to talk to them
about all of the procedural stuff,
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to play a chief warrant officer
and he, basically, directing these guys
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was, at first, very intimidating,
because they were the real thing,
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and I felt like a dippy actor trying to...
I didn't feel comfortable giving them orders.
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It was really them who pushed me
to get comfortable doing that.
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The piece was gonna fall apart
if we all didn't believe who we were,
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and they were just incredibly helpful
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in making me create something
that felt, I hope, authentic.
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Yeah.
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I mean, all those guys had themselves
been part of MET units.
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These MET units were the units
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that were tasked to go across the border
in the first days after the war
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and secure sites where they believed
WMD were held,
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and they'd all taken part
in exactly these kinds of missions.
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And when you make any film...
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I think people watching this DVD
kind of assume
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that the process is actually a lot more linear
than it actually is.
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You know, that you have an idea, you write
a screenplay, you shoot the screenplay,
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you cut the film, it comes out.
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But the truth is, it's actually a series
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of growing a project by degrees
with people who share the vision of it.
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And those people, those soldiers,
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were absolutely crucial
in anchoring the project
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in, firstly, a kind of a reality,
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but secondly, that its moral thrust,
that what it really was about
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was allowing the soldiers' point of view
of that conflict
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to come out, you know?
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- I think, don't you?
- Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
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And now we're at Baghdad Airport,
which was actually shot in Morocco.
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Any time you see a spare bit of sky,
Peter Chiang has put a helicopter in there.
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0-130. It's really incredible how big
the movie feels, given where we were,
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where we actually shot a lot of this stuff.
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It really is a testament to Peter,
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and also to where
the movie business is going,
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where you're able to do a lot of things
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with effects now
that are completely seamless
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and really do augment your movie
in a great way.
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Yeah. And it was always
absolutely fundamental to this film
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that we would inhabit Baghdad.
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It's an environment
that you see a lot on the news.
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But until you actually see it
and experience it on a big screen,
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it's hard to really grasp what it's like.
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But one of the things
I'm most proud of in this film
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is that I think it authentically brings you
to Baghdad.
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And the amount of detail
in mapping the exact contours
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of Baghdad and these exact locations,
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I mean, the care that Peter and his team took
was absolutely incredible, I think.
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Yeah.
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And to convey the sense
of a blasted kind of landscape,
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days after the invasion.
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I want a squad list, now!
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So our story's starting to unfold now.
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We've met Poundstone,
Greg Kinnear's character,
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and Lawrie Dayne, Amy Ryan's character.
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And that's got the whole story going
of a source,
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there's a source out there
that's not been disclosed.
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And now we come back
to Miller's side of the story,
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and he's still pursuing the
"Where are the WMD?" issue.
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I always very much liked this scene,
'cause I think it takes an audience
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back to those days
immediately after the invasion
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where there was great confidence
that this was all gonna be sorted out.
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Nobody knew at that time
what was gonna happen.
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And also, in terms of a straight thriller here,
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you want that moment
when your hero is knocked back.
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He asks a straightforward question,
and he's knocked back.
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And that, in a way, is kind of...
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It starts to drive the character from then on,
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'cause you know that
he's not gonna take "no" for an answer.
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Today we're going to be briefing you
on WMD operations due to take place
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in and around the Baghdad area.
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A lot of these scenes we shot longer.
For instance, we ran this press conference...
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This is our introduction
of our CIA guy, Brendan.
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But this, we ran as a real press conference.
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A real meeting. These guys are all...
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There's Paul Rieckhoff over in the corner.
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This is kind of how these things
really do run.
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It was probably a 15-minute improvisation
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for a lot of the questions and answers
and back and forth
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that Paul and Chris cut back
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to exactly what you need
to jump-start your plot.
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Chief, how about we do this?
Let's talk offline.
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Yeah, it has a sort of sense of reality,
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and it's that thing where,
if you can introduce actors...
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- I mean, there's Mike.
- Yeah, Michael's great.
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And Patrick there, and you...
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There are professional actors
in there, interacting
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with professional military people.
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It's something a lot of directors do.
I like to do it.
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Because when you get it right, and
you don't always get it right, as you know,
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but what you want is, essentially,
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it can encourage and assist the process
whereby the professional actor doesn't act,
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and it assists, profoundly,
the professional person to start to act.
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Right. Right.
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And where the two kind of meet,
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you get a sweet spot where it feels
powerfully performed but utterly real.
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Yeah, and that really is going back to,
I mean, using all these real guys.
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It really just, from my perspective,
just puts me right in there.
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So we've come out of the JMOC,
and now I've caught the eye of Brendan,
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who realizes that I'm not somebody
who's gonna kind of toe the company line.
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I'm realizing that these things are empty,
and there's a problem with the intel.
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And so he tries to establish
a connection with me.
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Give me the card,
and the plot moves forward.
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Yeah, and it goes back
to that opening thing.
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Yeah, you have a choice
when you're dealing with this material.
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I always wanted...
Well, I think we both did, didn't we?
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You want to make a film about this material
that, hopefully, people will see.
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Yeah.
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So, obviously, if you're gonna do that,
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you have to inhabit, at some level, genre.
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You've got to tell your story in a way
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that people are gonna instantly
identify the type of story it is,
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and it's gonna carry the promise
of being rewarding for them as an audience.
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A rewarding experience,
which means it's gonna be a thriller,
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it's gonna have a driving narrative.
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It's gonna have the things
that they would associate us with
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in terms of, yeah, economical storytelling,
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clarity, pace, a lot of dynamism,
a lot of physicality.
230
00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:23,125
And I think that
231
00:17:25,711 --> 00:17:30,925
underlying all of that is this question
that I think is so interesting in this film,
232
00:17:31,008 --> 00:17:36,013
which is, you've enjoyed
this sort of experience in Bourne world,
233
00:17:37,473 --> 00:17:39,725
but take one more step back
to the real world
234
00:17:39,809 --> 00:17:44,689
and see that, actually, this landscape
235
00:17:44,814 --> 00:17:50,236
gives you that same sense
of intrigue, conspiracy, paranoia,
236
00:17:51,487 --> 00:17:55,908
and also, will lend itself
to a character searching for the truth.
237
00:17:55,992 --> 00:17:57,493
- You know?
- Yeah.
238
00:17:58,494 --> 00:18:03,165
This is all based on some real footage
that CBS News had of a riot.
239
00:18:03,249 --> 00:18:05,418
People were...
240
00:18:06,335 --> 00:18:07,962
In our film, they want water.
241
00:18:08,045 --> 00:18:11,674
But I think, in actuality,
they were out of gasoline.
242
00:18:12,341 --> 00:18:16,804
And I remember
looking at the source material,
243
00:18:16,887 --> 00:18:20,641
and there was this soldier who was just
being overwhelmed by a group of people,
244
00:18:20,725 --> 00:18:23,102
and he just screamed at them to get back.
245
00:18:23,185 --> 00:18:26,188
He said,
"I'm trying to give you your freedom."
246
00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:31,152
These guys just are put
in these really, really tricky situations
247
00:18:31,235 --> 00:18:34,530
as this infrastructure,
as this country, is crumbling,
248
00:18:34,614 --> 00:18:38,534
and they're trying to manage
these unmanageable situations.
249
00:18:40,328 --> 00:18:42,580
This is the Green Zone.
250
00:18:44,206 --> 00:18:46,334
Which is actually more like
a brown zone in a way,
251
00:18:46,417 --> 00:18:50,963
'cause it's so hot,
but it's down by the river,
252
00:18:51,047 --> 00:18:54,133
and then you get the Republican Palace,
Saddam's former palace,
253
00:18:54,216 --> 00:18:57,595
which was the headquarters
for the Coalition.
254
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:03,392
This is a scene I always loved,
because you get your different arguments
255
00:19:03,517 --> 00:19:08,606
from the DOD and from the CIA.
256
00:19:08,731 --> 00:19:15,029
And this lifer, who's a Middle East specialist
257
00:19:15,112 --> 00:19:18,115
who nobody's listening to,
who has a pretty good read
258
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,326
on what's gonna happen
and what's gonna go wrong
259
00:19:20,409 --> 00:19:22,995
and understands the culture
and speaks the language,
260
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:28,125
versus the people
who didn't really rate those guys,
261
00:19:28,250 --> 00:19:30,711
and felt like they...
262
00:19:32,254 --> 00:19:37,927
They were so glacial about their vetting
that nothing ever got done.
263
00:19:40,096 --> 00:19:45,059
And that's who Kinnear represents,
obviously, the neocon argument.
264
00:19:45,935 --> 00:19:48,396
And this is a sort of scene that...
265
00:19:49,939 --> 00:19:54,777
The book's chock-full of these sorts
of encounters, isn't it, Rajiv's book?
266
00:19:56,112 --> 00:20:01,617
There's an intense amount of idealism in the
Poundstone character, which was present.
267
00:20:01,742 --> 00:20:05,246
I don't think you can dismiss
the quality of idealism
268
00:20:05,329 --> 00:20:09,542
that led people like Poundstone
to really, truly believe
269
00:20:09,625 --> 00:20:12,628
that you could come to Iraq
and transform the place.
270
00:20:12,753 --> 00:20:17,633
The goals, the ambitions
were not themselves unworthy.
271
00:20:17,758 --> 00:20:21,095
The problem is
they had fatally misunderstood
272
00:20:21,178 --> 00:20:27,101
or fatally underestimated the extent to which
the country was absolutely destroyed.
273
00:20:27,184 --> 00:20:30,354
And also, as Brendan's character explains,
274
00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:34,442
the extent to which
the simmering ethnic tensions
275
00:20:34,525 --> 00:20:38,654
under the surface of the country would,
once Saddam was removed,
276
00:20:38,779 --> 00:20:42,742
come roaring to the surface
and absolutely destroy it.
277
00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:49,290
And so around that absolute, central
278
00:20:52,168 --> 00:20:58,299
policy choice, whether to take
a pragmatic decision,
279
00:20:58,382 --> 00:21:03,095
which is essentially what
Brendan's character's suggesting, or not,
280
00:21:03,179 --> 00:21:05,848
- our story rests, doesn't it?
- Yeah.
281
00:21:07,349 --> 00:21:09,939
And it looks like we're giving him
a perfect argument, in hindsight,
282
00:21:10,019 --> 00:21:13,522
but the reality is
that was those guys' argument.
283
00:21:14,523 --> 00:21:15,858
For sure.
284
00:21:38,714 --> 00:21:44,178
So this is Khalid Abdalla,
just an absolutely fantastic young actor
285
00:21:45,763 --> 00:21:47,014
who's great in this movie.
286
00:21:47,097 --> 00:21:50,893
And his introduction here kind of kicks off...
287
00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:54,688
Really, really kicks it off.
288
00:21:54,772 --> 00:21:58,067
Here's Yigal coming in,
who's, again, just a wonderful actor
289
00:21:58,192 --> 00:22:01,195
who plays General Al Rawi,
290
00:22:02,696 --> 00:22:05,491
who's a very complicated character,
291
00:22:05,574 --> 00:22:09,829
who we'll get to know better
as the movie goes on.
292
00:22:09,912 --> 00:22:12,248
Yigal, Arabic is not his first language,
293
00:22:12,373 --> 00:22:17,169
and he actually, I think,
very wisely chose to say less.
294
00:22:17,253 --> 00:22:20,214
- But he's got such a presence.
- Fantastic, yeah.
295
00:22:20,297 --> 00:22:24,552
- -Power is a very hard thing to play, isn't it?
- Yeah, yeah.
296
00:22:24,635 --> 00:22:26,555
- Unless you have it, and he just has it.
- Yeah.
297
00:22:26,637 --> 00:22:29,265
Which you'll see.
298
00:22:29,390 --> 00:22:33,143
I remember, he said to me
in this scene, actually,
299
00:22:33,269 --> 00:22:39,900
he said, "The key to playing power is that
everybody else has gotta play the power."
300
00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:41,489
- Right. Right.
- Do you know what I mean?
301
00:22:41,569 --> 00:22:44,613
Which I thought was a very,
very wise thing to say.
302
00:22:44,738 --> 00:22:45,739
Right.
303
00:22:45,823 --> 00:22:49,243
And then you can just be.
You're not playing it, you know?
304
00:22:49,326 --> 00:22:50,703
It's a kind of classic thing
305
00:22:50,786 --> 00:22:55,457
that you'd think it would be the reverse
as an actor, wouldn't you?
306
00:22:55,583 --> 00:23:00,546
Now here's our hero,
who we've established isn't too happy.
307
00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:02,256
He's been pushed back once.
308
00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:05,718
He's now digging at a soccer field
in a public square.
309
00:23:05,801 --> 00:23:09,305
This is clearly not going anywhere.
310
00:23:11,974 --> 00:23:14,685
And there's a little scuffle going on.
311
00:23:15,936 --> 00:23:18,230
This is a very important moment
in the film, I think,
312
00:23:18,314 --> 00:23:21,400
because we've by now established
313
00:23:21,483 --> 00:23:26,196
that Miller's got a noble mission,
find the WMD.
314
00:23:26,322 --> 00:23:30,993
They're not there. He's not finding them.
He's become frustrated.
315
00:23:31,118 --> 00:23:34,330
He's asked questions upstairs
and got no answers.
316
00:23:34,997 --> 00:23:37,416
And now, of course,
because this is a thriller,
317
00:23:37,499 --> 00:23:40,628
he's gonna start to make
his own moves.
318
00:23:40,711 --> 00:23:46,842
This whole sequence, the arrival of Al Rawi
at the generals' meeting,
319
00:23:46,967 --> 00:23:52,431
which I felt had a lovely
sort of gangsters'-meeting-type flavor.
320
00:23:52,514 --> 00:23:55,434
And the arrival of Freddy
with the information to Miller,
321
00:23:55,517 --> 00:23:58,854
that he's seen something happening
a mile away,
322
00:24:00,147 --> 00:24:04,151
you just know he's gonna provoke
a confrontation
323
00:24:04,234 --> 00:24:09,114
and the film's gonna step up
to the next level of intensity
324
00:24:09,198 --> 00:24:14,244
and the next section of the story.
325
00:24:14,370 --> 00:24:20,834
We should probably talk at this stage
about Chris Rouse,
326
00:24:22,378 --> 00:24:28,467
who's cut my last four, our three, films,
327
00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:31,303
and played a central role in all of them.
328
00:24:31,387 --> 00:24:37,977
The way that he choreographed
these two stories,
329
00:24:38,060 --> 00:24:42,940
the story of the meeting,
which is very important, thematically,
330
00:24:43,065 --> 00:24:48,153
and conveys that sort of atmosphere
of a bunch of generals,
331
00:24:48,237 --> 00:24:53,283
still very powerful, still very dangerous,
but, essentially, wanted men on the run,
332
00:24:53,409 --> 00:24:56,829
and the information reaching Miller,
333
00:24:56,912 --> 00:25:01,667
and Miller deciding
to kind of drive his men into life,
334
00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:05,629
then this unfolding confrontation,
gives you,
335
00:25:05,754 --> 00:25:09,008
I think, the thing that I love in movies,
336
00:25:09,091 --> 00:25:13,762
which is not one piece of action,
337
00:25:13,887 --> 00:25:19,893
but the sustained feeling for, hopefully,
10 or 15 minutes
338
00:25:19,977 --> 00:25:22,187
that the film's unfolding in real time
339
00:25:22,271 --> 00:25:28,360
and driving you onwards
toward some kind of impending drama.
340
00:25:28,444 --> 00:25:34,241
That, I think, is very, very,
very watchable, ultimately.
341
00:25:34,324 --> 00:25:37,036
This, on a personal note,
was a huge day for me,
342
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,372
because this was the first time
343
00:25:40,456 --> 00:25:44,501
I really stepped up with the guys.
344
00:25:44,626 --> 00:25:49,423
And this guy who just jumped off
right there, Mike Dwyer, he's a Marine,
345
00:25:49,506 --> 00:25:53,635
saw, probably, the most stuff
of any of the guys who were there.
346
00:25:53,761 --> 00:25:59,224
Two very, very active tours in Iraq.
347
00:25:59,308 --> 00:26:02,561
And in this sequence,
348
00:26:02,644 --> 00:26:03,729
Paul suggested that Adam,
349
00:26:03,812 --> 00:26:06,315
who was a sniper in the National Guard,
question me.
350
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,858
Adam's there in the foreground.
351
00:26:07,983 --> 00:26:10,235
"How do we know you're not leading us
into an ambush?"
352
00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:13,447
"We don't. Get your fucking game face on,"
is what I say.
353
00:26:13,530 --> 00:26:17,409
And that was what Mike,
in the background there, said to me.
354
00:26:17,493 --> 00:26:22,331
I saw him when Adam questioned me,
I saw him get very uncomfortable.
355
00:26:22,456 --> 00:26:24,792
And I took him aside,
and I said, "What is it?"
356
00:26:24,875 --> 00:26:29,588
And he said, in no uncertain terms,
that, "That kind of insubordination
357
00:26:29,671 --> 00:26:33,425
"when we were out here
is absolutely unacceptable."
358
00:26:33,509 --> 00:26:35,597
And he said,
"If I have a problem with your leadership,"
359
00:26:35,677 --> 00:26:37,717
"you're gonna hear about it
before we get out here."
360
00:26:37,805 --> 00:26:43,560
"But once we're out here,
I am 100% doing what you tell me to do."
361
00:26:43,685 --> 00:26:47,064
"And if anybody says differently, then they
need to get their fucking game face on."
362
00:26:47,189 --> 00:26:49,441
And so that was a big moment for me,
363
00:26:49,525 --> 00:26:53,737
because I didn't tell Adam
I was gonna say that to him.
364
00:26:53,862 --> 00:26:57,825
And I just said it, kind of
sucked up my courage as an actor
365
00:26:57,908 --> 00:27:02,246
and said to this veteran
to get his game face on,
366
00:27:02,371 --> 00:27:05,374
and his reaction was very honest,
367
00:27:05,499 --> 00:27:09,628
and he suddenly just looked like a soldier
who was kind of being put back in line.
368
00:27:09,711 --> 00:27:12,673
So it was a big, very helpful...
369
00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:17,845
Again, when you have 30 technical advisers,
you get some really great stuff.
370
00:27:18,053 --> 00:27:19,179
Yeah.
371
00:27:24,685 --> 00:27:27,437
I love the atmosphere in this meeting,
and these. ..
372
00:27:29,064 --> 00:27:32,234
Quite a lot of these guys in this meeting
373
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,238
were Iraqis in exile.
374
00:27:36,405 --> 00:27:38,699
This man here...
375
00:27:40,534 --> 00:27:42,202
What if they don't contact us?
376
00:27:42,286 --> 00:27:46,540
...very fine Moroccan actor.
377
00:27:46,915 --> 00:27:48,750
...We Will fight.
378
00:27:50,460 --> 00:27:53,213
And Said, of course, right there.
He's terrific.
379
00:28:08,478 --> 00:28:10,814
So now we got some momentum.
We got our guys.
380
00:28:11,565 --> 00:28:14,151
Chris Rouse is starting to just...
381
00:28:14,902 --> 00:28:17,446
Yeah, we talked about this a lot
when we were cutting this film,
382
00:28:17,571 --> 00:28:23,076
that you didn't wanna let this
unfold too fast.
383
00:28:23,493 --> 00:28:28,790
You know what I mean? It was a question
of just steadily turning the screw.
384
00:28:28,957 --> 00:28:32,711
And I've always felt that from the soccer
field, from Freddy coming up, it just... Yeah.
385
00:28:32,794 --> 00:28:35,172
It's exactly right.
You're steadily turning the screw,
386
00:28:35,297 --> 00:28:38,091
all the way through the foot chase
in the alley.
387
00:28:38,175 --> 00:28:43,972
It just really... You're short of breath
through this whole thing.
388
00:28:44,264 --> 00:28:46,308
Now, these guys all...
I remember working this day.
389
00:28:46,433 --> 00:28:49,353
Monty said to me, "You're gonna see
what these guys really do."
390
00:28:49,478 --> 00:28:51,146
He said, "They've been trying to act.
391
00:28:52,022 --> 00:28:55,859
"If you wanna see 'em do what they do,
watch 'em hit a house."
392
00:28:55,984 --> 00:28:59,988
And we worked very, very carefully on...
393
00:29:00,113 --> 00:29:04,034
Well, they worked with me on exactly
what I would do, because I love that stuff.
394
00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:09,623
And every unit does it slightly differently.
395
00:29:10,666 --> 00:29:14,169
First guy goes left, second guy goes right,
third guy goes long, that kind of thing.
396
00:29:15,963 --> 00:29:22,177
I just went to school, basically,
and these guys showed me all this stuff,
397
00:29:23,303 --> 00:29:26,139
and it looks really, really good, I think.
398
00:29:26,306 --> 00:29:30,936
I think it looks good because
they're all moving exactly as they would.
399
00:29:31,019 --> 00:29:33,689
And now we're going to get on the door.
400
00:29:38,151 --> 00:29:43,365
- It's beautifully cut, this section.
- Yes.
401
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:45,450
Just introducing the...
402
00:29:45,534 --> 00:29:49,538
- Now you've get children in there.
- Yeah, raises the stakes of the encounter
403
00:29:50,497 --> 00:29:52,666
without feeling sentimental.
404
00:29:54,001 --> 00:29:55,043
There goes Dwyer.
405
00:29:57,754 --> 00:29:59,006
On the fucking ground, now!
406
00:29:59,089 --> 00:30:00,674
I'm third. I go long.
407
00:30:03,385 --> 00:30:06,722
I remember Dwyer would have butt-stroked
that guy, remember that?
408
00:30:09,683 --> 00:30:11,184
Keating, on the stairs up!
409
00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:16,815
That's just great,
his hand up there, did you see?
410
00:30:16,898 --> 00:30:19,067
His sign that the getaway car's coming.
411
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:27,034
Because those guys are military people,
you know, they're game guys.
412
00:30:27,117 --> 00:30:28,535
They know what they're doing.
413
00:30:29,703 --> 00:30:33,874
You just want that little moment, obviously,
of eye lock between you and Al Rawi.
414
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,214
Look out!
415
00:30:47,387 --> 00:30:49,264
- Get ready to hook right.
- Hook right!
416
00:30:49,389 --> 00:30:53,685
It was interesting, this whole section,
and it's a long, long section,
417
00:30:53,769 --> 00:30:56,438
it must be nearly 15 minutes of the movie,
418
00:30:56,563 --> 00:31:01,777
the section that begins
with you at the soccer field,
419
00:31:02,778 --> 00:31:04,613
introduction of Freddy,
420
00:31:05,947 --> 00:31:11,495
the meeting at Al Rawi's,
the confrontation in this section here
421
00:31:11,912 --> 00:31:16,416
and then afterwards at the soccer field.
422
00:31:17,918 --> 00:31:21,004
I remember when Brian wrote the first draft,
423
00:31:21,129 --> 00:31:26,510
that section,
although we changed it in many ways
424
00:31:26,635 --> 00:31:29,388
in terms of the way we performed it...
425
00:31:29,471 --> 00:31:34,476
But essentially, that was...
I remember reading that.
426
00:31:35,143 --> 00:31:37,354
I was actually out in Los Angeles
finishing Ultimatum,
427
00:31:37,479 --> 00:31:42,818
"and I remember reading that 20 pages
and going, "That's bang on.
428
00:31:42,943 --> 00:31:49,574
"That is tonally,
and in terms of the moral ebb and flow..."
429
00:31:49,658 --> 00:31:52,911
Cause you're not... You know,
this isn't a movie where you're saying,
430
00:31:52,994 --> 00:31:56,415
"Oh, look at those terrible American soldiers.
Look what they're doing."
431
00:31:56,498 --> 00:31:57,624
You're not feeling that.
432
00:31:57,707 --> 00:32:00,919
You're feeling that
they're engaged in a righteous cause,
433
00:32:01,002 --> 00:32:02,591
and they absolutely believe that they are,
434
00:32:02,671 --> 00:32:04,965
and they're behaving
according to procedure,
435
00:32:05,048 --> 00:32:08,760
but the splintering in terms of
what's happening on the other side,
436
00:32:08,844 --> 00:32:12,431
and Freddy's uncomfortable
with what's happening,
437
00:32:12,514 --> 00:32:16,143
and Said there being questioned,
and Al Rawi getting out the back door...
438
00:32:16,226 --> 00:32:19,604
So it's got elements of straight thriller.
439
00:32:19,688 --> 00:32:21,940
It's got elements of reportage.
440
00:32:22,023 --> 00:32:24,234
And I thought it was...
441
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:26,236
But look at how he says his name there, too.
442
00:32:26,361 --> 00:32:30,157
I mean, it's got those elements
of these cultures clashing, too.
443
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,366
Yeah.
444
00:32:31,825 --> 00:32:36,621
You know, you've got the relationship
between Freddy and Said there,
445
00:32:36,705 --> 00:32:39,207
clearly from two different classes.
446
00:32:39,332 --> 00:32:41,501
- One formerly in the master class...
- Yeah.
447
00:32:41,585 --> 00:32:44,921
...in the powerful class,
448
00:32:45,046 --> 00:32:47,799
who still has all that pride,
449
00:32:47,883 --> 00:32:52,304
and you see just the way he looks at Khalid,
you know, it just...
450
00:32:52,387 --> 00:32:54,347
Hey, Michaels,
do you have that deck of cards?
451
00:32:54,431 --> 00:32:56,892
- Yes.
- Give me the Jack of Clubs.
452
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:59,769
Is that the guy?
Was that the guy that went out the back?
453
00:33:00,353 --> 00:33:04,107
It's tricky, normally, 'cause I do these...
I've never done one with you,
454
00:33:04,232 --> 00:33:06,776
of this kind.
455
00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:11,823
But I must say,
I thought you were fantastic in these scenes,
456
00:33:12,115 --> 00:33:18,997
because what it is, is, you're starting
from a position in this film with Miller,
457
00:33:19,331 --> 00:33:22,250
where he's, in a sense, doing what he's told.
458
00:33:23,752 --> 00:33:30,467
And you've got to,
in terms of building the character of Miller,
459
00:33:31,009 --> 00:33:33,762
make his steps feel believable
460
00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:38,350
as he moves off on what's essentially
a conspiracy-thriller journey.
461
00:33:39,142 --> 00:33:44,105
And I thought that hinge,
that encounter, all this stuff here,
462
00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:48,193
it was outstanding,
'cause you're utterly with Miller now.
463
00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:50,445
I think you feel him...
464
00:33:50,946 --> 00:33:52,614
Roger that, Chief.
465
00:33:53,114 --> 00:33:54,950
...out of this landscape, starting to go,
466
00:33:55,033 --> 00:34:00,163
"Well, hang on a second, I've got my chance
here of an answer, and I'm gonna take it."
467
00:34:01,164 --> 00:34:03,667
And in a way,
it's a tricky thing for you all the time,
468
00:34:03,792 --> 00:34:08,129
'cause you were having to be in charge,
but, in a sense, out of your depth,
469
00:34:08,213 --> 00:34:09,297
all at the same time.
470
00:34:09,381 --> 00:34:12,425
Do you know what I mean?
Which is a very, very tricky thing to do
471
00:34:12,509 --> 00:34:16,972
when you're the central character in a movie,
where you've got to be strong, obviously.
472
00:34:17,472 --> 00:34:22,143
I mean, it's true in any conspiracy thriller.
How do you thread that needle?
473
00:34:22,477 --> 00:34:24,774
He say only General Mohammed Al Rawi,
he know about these things.
474
00:34:24,854 --> 00:34:28,733
Well, for all the actors,
the way that these scenes were constructed,
475
00:34:28,817 --> 00:34:31,194
we'd improvise
476
00:34:31,319 --> 00:34:36,032
or we would augment
what was on the page, basically,
477
00:34:36,157 --> 00:34:37,659
and then you could cut it back.
478
00:34:37,742 --> 00:34:40,537
But what it did was,
it gave us all the freedom
479
00:34:40,662 --> 00:34:43,456
having one camera down
and when you roll out, picking it up,
480
00:34:43,540 --> 00:34:47,085
and so the scene never stops,
so we could go for half an hour
481
00:34:47,544 --> 00:34:50,922
and do four or five takes in half an hour,
and it'd be half a day's work,
482
00:34:51,006 --> 00:34:56,595
but we've got stuff where
we can get in our own ways as actors
483
00:34:56,678 --> 00:34:59,598
by planning moments,
484
00:34:59,681 --> 00:35:04,185
and trying to indicate what...
Try to help tell the story.
485
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:08,607
But these were just playing these situations
as authentically as possible
486
00:35:09,524 --> 00:35:12,027
with these incredibly high stakes.
487
00:35:12,944 --> 00:35:15,113
It's always the thing,
people always sort of somehow
488
00:35:15,196 --> 00:35:16,865
view the writing process...
489
00:35:16,948 --> 00:35:20,952
I think, again, for people watching this DVD,
somewhere there's a distinction
490
00:35:21,036 --> 00:35:24,581
between the writing process
and, say, the improvisatory process,
491
00:35:24,706 --> 00:35:27,167
as somewhere that they're contradictory.
492
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:30,920
And in fact, we've all worked on this.
493
00:35:31,046 --> 00:35:34,424
They're not...
What you ideally want on a film,
494
00:35:34,549 --> 00:35:39,179
certainly on my films, anyway,
is a team
495
00:35:39,262 --> 00:35:43,725
where the goal is to get to the finished film,
496
00:35:43,808 --> 00:35:49,314
and along the way,
you're deploying various techniques
497
00:35:49,397 --> 00:35:51,608
to try and arrive at the truth of it.
498
00:35:51,733 --> 00:35:56,404
One of the techniques is the writing,
the process of writing on the page.
499
00:35:56,821 --> 00:35:58,948
And that will give you certain elements.
500
00:35:59,074 --> 00:36:02,243
It may give you quite fully-formed scenes.
501
00:36:02,577 --> 00:36:05,997
It might give you fully-formed scenarios
502
00:36:06,081 --> 00:36:08,625
that you can then use
to spin off and improvise,
503
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:11,419
or it might give you something
that doesn't quite work
504
00:36:11,503 --> 00:36:14,881
that on the day you can challenge
and arrive at something else.
505
00:36:14,964 --> 00:36:17,842
But what you're looking for
when you make a film
506
00:36:17,926 --> 00:36:23,723
is the engagement
of all your creative stakeholders
507
00:36:23,807 --> 00:36:27,435
to try and find "it," whatever "it" is.
508
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:29,729
And it's not one or the other,
509
00:36:29,813 --> 00:36:33,858
it's that the writer, as ever, has,
510
00:36:35,110 --> 00:36:38,446
in a sense, the heroic job of going first
and alone, do you know what I mean?
511
00:36:38,530 --> 00:36:39,739
Down the tunnel.
512
00:36:39,823 --> 00:36:45,453
We all get to go later
and can either build on that, use it,
513
00:36:45,995 --> 00:36:50,291
challenge it and often reinterpret it.
514
00:36:50,625 --> 00:36:52,168
It's not either/or.
515
00:36:53,962 --> 00:36:58,425
And, particularly in a situation
where you have all these guys,
516
00:36:58,508 --> 00:37:02,595
- you can get to authenticity really quickly...
- Yeah.
517
00:37:02,679 --> 00:37:06,850
...with guys in a way
that if you put me in a room for a year,
518
00:37:07,475 --> 00:37:11,521
I'd never be able to write
some of the stuff that these guys do,
519
00:37:11,646 --> 00:37:13,777
just because of who they are
and the experiences they've had,
520
00:37:13,857 --> 00:37:16,651
and they know how some of these things go.
521
00:37:19,487 --> 00:37:21,948
Here's Jason Isaacs, just, again, terrific.
522
00:37:22,031 --> 00:37:26,119
I really felt lucky to be in this movie
with these actors.
523
00:37:26,202 --> 00:37:30,165
Every scene I had
was with somebody terrific.
524
00:37:36,588 --> 00:37:43,052
Jason's an old friend of mine,
and actually had a huge impact...
525
00:37:43,178 --> 00:37:44,307
I was talking about it the other day, actually.
526
00:37:44,387 --> 00:37:48,600
He actually had a huge impact on me
as a director, Jason did. You know that?
527
00:37:48,683 --> 00:37:51,770
Because I worked with him in Britain
many years ago on a television film,
528
00:37:51,853 --> 00:37:57,859
and he was really the first actor
that I ever really felt comfortable enough
529
00:37:58,735 --> 00:38:05,033
to explain what the insecurities you feel
as a director,
530
00:38:05,533 --> 00:38:08,787
particularly when you're a young director
working with actors, and vice versa...
531
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:12,999
And, in a way, it helped me to be...
532
00:38:13,082 --> 00:38:16,753
My relationship with him when we made
that film made me much more confident
533
00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:19,547
in terms of understanding
534
00:38:21,549 --> 00:38:26,137
what actors wanted from a director.
Do you know what I mean?
535
00:38:26,221 --> 00:38:27,263
Right. Right.
536
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:28,556
Stop!
537
00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:30,892
Stop!
538
00:38:31,059 --> 00:38:33,520
Well, now we're rocking out. It's pushing on.
539
00:38:33,603 --> 00:38:39,108
And this is still this kind of breathless...
Starting at the soccer field up until now.
540
00:38:39,567 --> 00:38:41,945
It doesn't kind of rest until, bang, now.
541
00:38:42,070 --> 00:38:44,447
Freddy's got only one leg.
542
00:38:44,572 --> 00:38:45,573
The scene stops.
543
00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:47,325
What the fuck!
Why are you running?
544
00:38:47,408 --> 00:38:50,119
- Why you are chasing me?
- Give me the book.
545
00:38:50,245 --> 00:38:51,246
Give me the fucking book!
546
00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:55,792
Now I thought this was a brilliant scene,
547
00:38:55,917 --> 00:38:59,546
a brilliant scene
that I think everybody involved,
548
00:38:59,629 --> 00:39:02,674
I mean, obviously, the two of you,
the guys around,
549
00:39:02,757 --> 00:39:08,263
but you take something very, very hard here,
which is the prosthetic leg.
550
00:39:08,596 --> 00:39:12,725
You've suddenly abruptly stopped
after a huge amount of chasing,
551
00:39:12,809 --> 00:39:16,729
and you've essentially got to turn
a very tight corner here,
552
00:39:16,813 --> 00:39:19,399
because you're wanting to get away.
553
00:39:19,482 --> 00:39:22,235
You're in a hostile place.
You're in an alleyway.
554
00:39:22,318 --> 00:39:24,404
You're a professional soldier.
What do you do?
555
00:39:24,487 --> 00:39:28,324
But somehow, we've got to get this scene
going and he's talking about the car,
556
00:39:28,449 --> 00:39:33,121
and I thought it was absolutely,
if I may say so, very, very...
557
00:39:35,999 --> 00:39:39,002
- A corner very well turned.
- Well, it's Khalid's performance.
558
00:39:40,628 --> 00:39:44,173
- Because you believe that those guys stop.
- Yeah.
559
00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:46,551
- And that he arrests you.
- Yeah. Exactly.
560
00:39:46,968 --> 00:39:49,929
Cause there's got to be something
quite strong...
561
00:39:50,013 --> 00:39:51,973
It's not just our hero stopping.
562
00:39:52,056 --> 00:39:53,645
As you see, all those other soldiers stop.
563
00:39:53,725 --> 00:39:56,060
And, I mean, no one knew
what he was gonna say there,
564
00:39:56,144 --> 00:39:58,980
and everyone stopped and listened to him.
565
00:40:01,858 --> 00:40:07,572
It's that thing, when you direct,
you come to understand that...
566
00:40:07,989 --> 00:40:10,617
First of all, when you direct,
567
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:14,662
you're surrounded by people
who do extraordinary things for you,
568
00:40:14,746 --> 00:40:19,500
whether it's the BOP or the sound man
or the first AD.
569
00:40:21,002 --> 00:40:26,716
And they all solve
a series of very particular problems for you,
570
00:40:26,841 --> 00:40:31,137
but when you direct,
you come to realize that it's the actor
571
00:40:31,220 --> 00:40:33,556
who can solve them all instantly.
572
00:40:33,681 --> 00:40:37,477
The actor can move to the certain place
to make the shot work,
573
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,979
can say it in a certain way
to make the line work,
574
00:40:40,063 --> 00:40:43,900
can physically make it work
so it can cut properly.
575
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:51,532
It's a thing, if you're a young director,
576
00:40:53,868 --> 00:40:59,290
you have to see the capacity
for technical problem solving
577
00:40:59,374 --> 00:41:00,917
that acting can give you,
578
00:41:01,042 --> 00:41:02,797
rather than just performance,
do you know what I mean?
579
00:41:02,877 --> 00:41:06,881
Cause, of course,
that's what crews understand.
580
00:41:06,965 --> 00:41:09,717
They all realize that, which is why they are...
581
00:41:09,926 --> 00:41:11,094
Let Bethel handle it, please.
582
00:41:11,219 --> 00:41:12,348
No. Bethel can't see past
the files...
583
00:41:12,428 --> 00:41:15,556
Like when your director asks you
to do just a loop like that...
584
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,849
Exactly.
585
00:41:16,933 --> 00:41:19,188
"Then you go, " You know what?
I'm just gonna get a little more intense
586
00:41:19,268 --> 00:41:20,348
"and act right through it."
587
00:41:21,229 --> 00:41:22,271
There you go.
588
00:41:22,397 --> 00:41:25,525
But now I'm angry that I had to do the loop,
so that's all real anger.
589
00:41:25,608 --> 00:41:30,279
I know. I know. And you were a very,
very, very good soldier for me there.
590
00:41:30,780 --> 00:41:33,825
What we're talking about is
that if you look at that shot,
591
00:41:33,908 --> 00:41:37,620
we had some necessary dialogue here,
is the truth of it...
592
00:41:37,745 --> 00:41:42,417
- Right.
- ...because we had to genuinely
593
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:44,377
step the intensity of the character up.
594
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:46,587
He had to make a statement
595
00:41:47,755 --> 00:41:51,342
about what he was gonna do and why,
596
00:41:51,426 --> 00:41:54,429
and why he felt it necessary
to continue off reservation,
597
00:41:54,512 --> 00:41:58,725
and it was very important, I think,
for two reasons.
598
00:41:58,808 --> 00:42:05,356
It was important
because we'd felt that this was not a film
599
00:42:05,815 --> 00:42:08,443
where you could have a personal scene
600
00:42:10,111 --> 00:42:12,405
about Miller's individual character.
601
00:42:12,488 --> 00:42:15,199
"In other words, " I'm going off reservation
602
00:42:15,283 --> 00:42:19,579
"because my father brought me up
in way 'X'"
603
00:42:19,662 --> 00:42:22,210
"or something happened to me
five years ago that made me wanna do it."
604
00:42:22,290 --> 00:42:24,087
It was important,
I think for both of us, wasn't it,
605
00:42:24,167 --> 00:42:28,004
that Miller was just almost an everyman.
606
00:42:28,212 --> 00:42:32,675
He was doing what we all did,
which is, by degrees
607
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,386
start to question what was being said to us.
608
00:42:35,470 --> 00:42:38,267
Exactly. And we had had the conversation
about that more personal angle,
609
00:42:38,347 --> 00:42:40,683
and we'd thought about that
and kind of gone down that road
610
00:42:40,808 --> 00:42:45,605
just as an exercise, to think about
what that could be, but you're right.
611
00:42:45,688 --> 00:42:49,984
Ultimately, we came to the conclusion that
that was absolutely wrong.
612
00:42:50,526 --> 00:42:53,279
He had to be asking
the fundamental question.
613
00:42:53,362 --> 00:42:57,784
Yeah. And he had to state it clearly,
but we were there,
614
00:42:57,867 --> 00:43:03,498
and you had to make that wide turn, which
really wasn't a motivated move, in truth,
615
00:43:03,873 --> 00:43:06,834
but in the context of the film,
do you notice it? Never.
616
00:43:06,918 --> 00:43:08,002
No, no, no, no. No, no.
617
00:43:08,086 --> 00:43:09,587
But you feel it and I felt it.
618
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:11,589
You felt it worst of all.
619
00:43:11,672 --> 00:43:14,967
- It's one of those things that...
- You have to suck it up.
620
00:43:15,051 --> 00:43:16,719
- Let's be honest.
- You gotta suck it up.
621
00:43:16,844 --> 00:43:21,557
And it's a trust... Look,
things look differently through the camera.
622
00:43:22,058 --> 00:43:26,854
And so, you know, I don't know
what Klemens was on there, maybe a 40.
623
00:43:28,189 --> 00:43:32,985
But he was moving, so you don't notice it.
624
00:43:33,069 --> 00:43:34,570
I mean, too many of those?
625
00:43:34,862 --> 00:43:38,222
Too many of those and they'll add up. Yeah.
That's right. That's right. You'll see...
626
00:43:38,366 --> 00:43:41,077
You've gotta always be working
to minimize those things.
627
00:43:41,202 --> 00:43:43,041
- Well, this is...
- This is our guys coming in
628
00:43:43,121 --> 00:43:45,665
- out of the shit...
- To the Green Zone.
629
00:43:45,748 --> 00:43:51,879
...into the Green Zone, which is really,
really well-described in Rajiv's book.
630
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:59,011
And this is absolutely, literally a facsimile.
631
00:43:59,095 --> 00:44:05,059
It is an absolutely perfect version
of what the Republican,
632
00:44:05,143 --> 00:44:07,019
the back of the Republican Palace
looked like.
633
00:44:07,103 --> 00:44:13,484
This is exactly what it looked like
in every detail, really.
634
00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:17,321
And surreal, in a way.
635
00:44:18,906 --> 00:44:21,784
You know, if you've been out
in the dust of the desert,
636
00:44:23,786 --> 00:44:24,832
trying to look for these things,
637
00:44:24,912 --> 00:44:27,790
and suddenly, all the guys
are in this sort of strange,
638
00:44:32,253 --> 00:44:38,092
semi-permissive environment,
but also one filled with intrigue.
639
00:44:39,135 --> 00:44:43,181
And you get
that sort of thriller route still going.
640
00:44:43,264 --> 00:44:45,266
The notebook, the names.
641
00:44:47,351 --> 00:44:50,104
So you're still driving him along.
642
00:44:50,605 --> 00:44:51,939
God damn!
643
00:44:52,273 --> 00:44:53,482
I like this scene very much.
644
00:44:53,608 --> 00:44:58,112
Brendan is kind of...
You're not quite sure what his game is.
645
00:44:58,196 --> 00:45:03,451
You're not quite sure, is he gonna turn out
to be a good guy or not?
646
00:45:03,826 --> 00:45:05,540
And he's sort of abrupt and gruff, isn't he?
647
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:06,954
Yeah. He's just terrific.
648
00:45:07,038 --> 00:45:11,709
I wondered if he was
channeling Gene Hackman for this role,
649
00:45:11,792 --> 00:45:15,504
because Brendan's this wonderful Irish guy.
650
00:45:15,630 --> 00:45:20,134
He's got this incredible voice and laugh,
651
00:45:21,010 --> 00:45:24,263
- but he just clicked right into this guy...
- Yeah.
652
00:45:24,347 --> 00:45:28,476
...and had such weight to him.
653
00:45:28,976 --> 00:45:33,314
You really believed
that he'd spent his career over there
654
00:45:33,397 --> 00:45:37,026
and understood
the way things really worked,
655
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:40,321
and I just thought he did a terrific job.
656
00:45:41,489 --> 00:45:43,574
And this is Amy, who's...
657
00:45:43,658 --> 00:45:46,202
- How did you know that?
- It's right there on your rifle.
658
00:45:46,327 --> 00:45:47,370
Lawrie Dayne...
659
00:45:47,453 --> 00:45:49,247
I mean, it was a very hard challenge,
660
00:45:49,330 --> 00:45:53,501
'cause I always think
the reporter in a conspiracy thriller
661
00:45:53,584 --> 00:45:57,922
is a very tough assignment,
662
00:45:58,005 --> 00:46:00,841
for an actor to find
the sort of grounded reality.
663
00:46:00,925 --> 00:46:06,597
And she really had to work hard,
664
00:46:06,681 --> 00:46:11,769
and she did,
to find a very simple line through that,
665
00:46:11,852 --> 00:46:17,358
because the truth is, in the real world,
666
00:46:19,235 --> 00:46:23,948
the relationship between the press
and the events that took place
667
00:46:24,031 --> 00:46:27,785
in advance of the invasion was complex
668
00:46:27,868 --> 00:46:33,124
and filled with ethical questions
669
00:46:33,207 --> 00:46:35,543
and uncertainties, and I thought
670
00:46:37,378 --> 00:46:42,258
she managed to find a character who was
at once... You condemned her,
671
00:46:42,341 --> 00:46:46,387
but in another way, you saw
that she was trying to find a way out of it.
672
00:46:50,057 --> 00:46:53,894
Well, we shot a few of these scenes, anyway,
along the way.
673
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:57,940
But that's okay.
674
00:47:00,026 --> 00:47:02,820
I always wanted, in the end...
675
00:47:02,903 --> 00:47:09,618
This film is... It's got to be in genre.
It's got to be in genre,
676
00:47:12,038 --> 00:47:16,542
but for me,
the big radical play on the genre is,
677
00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:19,086
it's not in Bourne world.
It's in the real world.
678
00:47:19,170 --> 00:47:21,088
- Right.
- But yet, it's a fictional story.
679
00:47:21,172 --> 00:47:24,216
But yet, it's playing with a lot of elements
680
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:26,013
that we know and remember
from the real world.
681
00:47:26,093 --> 00:47:30,348
And so, I mean, obviously, people watching
will make their own decisions,
682
00:47:30,431 --> 00:47:36,645
but to me, that curious sort of recognizable
683
00:47:36,729 --> 00:47:42,109
but unpredictable mix,
it's taking some of the elements
684
00:47:42,193 --> 00:47:48,074
of the Bourne thrillers
and putting them in the real world,
685
00:47:48,157 --> 00:47:52,078
and it's asking that audience,
686
00:47:53,454 --> 00:47:58,125
I always think, to take that step, really,
that completes the circle,
687
00:47:58,209 --> 00:47:59,251
do you know what I mean?
688
00:47:59,335 --> 00:48:01,545
I mean, obviously,
you made the first Bourne, I didn't,
689
00:48:01,629 --> 00:48:05,091
but it always struck me
that Bourne, as a franchise,
690
00:48:05,466 --> 00:48:09,095
perfectly expressed
all the mistrust and paranoia
691
00:48:09,178 --> 00:48:13,474
that grew up between 2001 and 2003.
692
00:48:13,641 --> 00:48:20,356
And we really, really distilled that,
I think, in Supremacy and Ultimatum.
693
00:48:22,066 --> 00:48:26,112
So it's almost like it sprang
from the real world,
694
00:48:26,195 --> 00:48:29,073
got distilled,
and then Green Zone sort of says,
695
00:48:29,156 --> 00:48:35,037
"Well, let's go back into the real world
and see what that feels like."
696
00:48:35,162 --> 00:48:36,414
- You know?
- Yeah.
697
00:48:36,789 --> 00:48:38,457
- Where's Al Rawi?
- Where's Al Rawi?
698
00:48:39,125 --> 00:48:41,585
Greg, I think,
is very, very good in this scene.
699
00:48:42,378 --> 00:48:43,838
Greg's good in everything.
700
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:49,093
But he captures a sort of discomfort...
701
00:48:49,176 --> 00:48:51,679
Yeah, I know.
It's really nice that you can see...
702
00:48:51,762 --> 00:48:54,181
-He doesn't revel in this.
Exactly. Exactly.
703
00:48:54,265 --> 00:48:59,520
Which would have been the easy way
to do it, and it would've been wrong.
704
00:49:01,522 --> 00:49:05,443
People who are advocating this type of stuff
705
00:49:08,195 --> 00:49:10,322
- are not sadists.
- No.
706
00:49:11,991 --> 00:49:17,079
It's about the inevitable results
of great forces that are set in chain
707
00:49:17,163 --> 00:49:20,374
and pitted against each other,
is the truth of it.
708
00:49:25,212 --> 00:49:27,301
And this was a scene
we talked about a lot, wasn't it?
709
00:49:27,381 --> 00:49:29,925
- You and he, the first meeting...
- Yeah.
710
00:49:30,009 --> 00:49:32,845
...which in a way is a kind of...
711
00:49:32,928 --> 00:49:37,099
It's a necessary scene in a thriller genre.
712
00:49:37,183 --> 00:49:40,644
The hero meets the bad guy
midway through, and...
713
00:49:40,728 --> 00:49:43,522
- The brush past, midway through.
- Yeah.
714
00:49:44,732 --> 00:49:46,734
And I think it got
715
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:55,409
a very simple procedural base to the scene.
716
00:49:56,076 --> 00:49:59,288
- I mean, you don't really engage with him.
- Yeah.
717
00:49:59,371 --> 00:50:01,248
He's not really disturbed by that.
718
00:50:01,332 --> 00:50:03,584
He's just gonna convey his information.
719
00:50:04,001 --> 00:50:05,794
He's confirmed a few facts for us.
720
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:12,426
I think it's great that it's in
that sort of blasted, strange
721
00:50:14,637 --> 00:50:18,891
luxury-that's-been-trashed world
of the Green Zone,
722
00:50:20,684 --> 00:50:22,394
which was quite deserted, in fact.
723
00:50:23,771 --> 00:50:25,314
But all the same, he does the...
724
00:50:25,397 --> 00:50:31,070
You get the lookout between the two of you.
725
00:50:31,153 --> 00:50:32,196
Right.
726
00:50:32,279 --> 00:50:34,039
There's an opportunity for you here, Miller.
727
00:50:34,156 --> 00:50:35,950
He sure is offering me a lot.
728
00:50:37,117 --> 00:50:39,912
Come party.
Come party with the DOD guys.
729
00:50:40,663 --> 00:50:44,083
He doesn't overplay it,
730
00:50:44,166 --> 00:50:49,713
- but you feel the earnestness of the pitch.
- No, no, no.
731
00:50:49,797 --> 00:50:51,010
He did a couple of different things here.
732
00:50:51,090 --> 00:50:56,470
And I don't remember if we ended with the,
"We're doing a good thing here," and...
733
00:50:57,972 --> 00:51:01,016
They didn't over-egg it. It was just,
that's what he believes.
734
00:51:01,225 --> 00:51:05,729
And I like that he threw away the "notebook"
over his shoulder.
735
00:51:06,647 --> 00:51:10,067
Poundstone's unit pushed all that WMD intel
you've been chasing your tail on.
736
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:11,277
What? You mean Magellan?
737
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:16,699
This is to create that world, again,
of through-the-barricades
738
00:51:16,782 --> 00:51:18,450
- and everything, just the...
- Yeah.
739
00:51:19,952 --> 00:51:21,912
Here's the deal.
We checked the notebook.
740
00:51:21,996 --> 00:51:26,792
In any thriller, you've always got
areas of exposition.
741
00:51:27,835 --> 00:51:29,635
- There are little...
- And we've entered one.
742
00:51:30,838 --> 00:51:33,716
But you have to have them,
because you've gotta...
743
00:51:33,799 --> 00:51:37,011
Particularly in thrillers, of course,
because you always have characters
744
00:51:37,094 --> 00:51:40,389
moving along different timelines
of knowledge.
745
00:51:40,472 --> 00:51:43,183
They know different things at different times.
746
00:51:43,267 --> 00:51:44,480
They have different states of knowledge,
747
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,647
and you somehow, generally
round about the middle of a thriller,
748
00:51:48,731 --> 00:51:53,110
you've gotta start to get
their states of knowledge in alignment,
749
00:51:53,193 --> 00:51:56,447
so that they're gonna collide
in the right kinds of ways
750
00:51:56,530 --> 00:51:59,783
in the final third, and that always gives rise
751
00:51:59,867 --> 00:52:03,078
to the necessary nature of the exposition,
752
00:52:03,162 --> 00:52:06,957
and also to get the central character
753
00:52:08,208 --> 00:52:11,295
framed up with whatever
the moral obstacle's gonna be.
754
00:52:12,463 --> 00:52:14,173
We gotta find Al Rawi and bring him in.
755
00:52:14,256 --> 00:52:17,801
In this case, it's this very seasoned
CIA guy telling him
756
00:52:17,885 --> 00:52:23,557
that he might have to reframe
his moral dynamic.
757
00:52:24,224 --> 00:52:25,392
Yeah.
758
00:52:26,060 --> 00:52:28,062
- Yeah, I want it.
- Good.
759
00:52:29,063 --> 00:52:30,105
Hamza's being held...
760
00:52:30,189 --> 00:52:33,692
And it's good, I think. I think
one of the great things about this story is
761
00:52:33,776 --> 00:52:36,403
that it feels...
762
00:52:36,654 --> 00:52:38,781
I'm not. You are.
763
00:52:39,573 --> 00:52:42,910
- ...very, very simple, this story.
- Right.
764
00:52:44,161 --> 00:52:48,582
And in a way, narratively, it is very simple.
765
00:52:49,917 --> 00:52:56,507
But the shifts
of where you feel the moral center
766
00:52:56,590 --> 00:53:02,346
of any action...
Is Al Rawi a guy that should be caught,
767
00:53:02,429 --> 00:53:06,058
or is he a bad guy,
or are there some gray areas there?
768
00:53:06,141 --> 00:53:09,770
That shifts and changes
as you get closer to him.
769
00:53:10,145 --> 00:53:14,566
Is the choice to catch him
770
00:53:15,401 --> 00:53:19,780
a good thing to do, from your point of view,
in terms of what's in your interest
771
00:53:19,863 --> 00:53:22,783
and American interests,
or is it actually more complex?
772
00:53:22,866 --> 00:53:25,994
That's your journey, isn't it?
773
00:53:26,078 --> 00:53:30,541
And it's starting to get hedged
and complicated at this point.
774
00:53:37,548 --> 00:53:40,175
So now we're gonna kick up a gear.
775
00:53:42,678 --> 00:53:45,556
Start to sharpen it up.
776
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:48,517
- I love when he says...
- You made this dusk, huh?
777
00:53:49,977 --> 00:53:51,815
It was always meant to be.
No, it was always meant to be.
778
00:53:51,895 --> 00:53:53,313
That's why the lights were on.
779
00:53:53,397 --> 00:53:56,195
- Yeah, but that's why we had the lights on.
- I see. Now I've got you.
780
00:53:56,275 --> 00:53:58,318
Maybe I missed that memo.
781
00:54:00,487 --> 00:54:03,240
Wouldn't have played it differently,
but, you know...
782
00:54:03,407 --> 00:54:05,451
But did you do that in the DI?
You did that later?
783
00:54:05,534 --> 00:54:08,746
Yeah. We just graded it down
a little bit, but it...
784
00:54:08,829 --> 00:54:12,791
We stopped that down in the day,
785
00:54:12,875 --> 00:54:17,129
'cause I wanted you to feel
that this was all gonna go into one night.
786
00:54:17,212 --> 00:54:18,255
Right.
787
00:54:19,757 --> 00:54:23,135
So that, in effect, this whole film,
from the moment...
788
00:54:23,927 --> 00:54:26,138
The moment you hit the soccer field,
789
00:54:26,221 --> 00:54:29,892
when you're sitting there
and Al Rawi turns up
790
00:54:32,269 --> 00:54:34,813
at the generals' meeting...
791
00:54:34,897 --> 00:54:37,524
- That's one day.
- It's one day till the end of the movie.
792
00:54:37,733 --> 00:54:39,151
I've got it!
793
00:54:43,822 --> 00:54:46,283
- Let's go.
- Stay out of this, Marty.
794
00:54:48,368 --> 00:54:49,995
- You all right here?
- Yeah.
795
00:54:54,625 --> 00:54:58,253
I think what you wanna feel
out of this story is that...
796
00:54:58,587 --> 00:55:03,383
The fact that Al Rawi has surfaced,
the fact that you have found the notebook,
797
00:55:05,427 --> 00:55:10,265
is now starting to make things happen.
People are having to commit now.
798
00:55:10,349 --> 00:55:17,231
Poundstone can't afford to let Al Rawi,
obviously, be found.
799
00:55:17,439 --> 00:55:19,566
He's gotta catch him first.
800
00:55:20,526 --> 00:55:26,365
And you'll start to feel the same thing.
Certainly, Brown, Brendan's character, is.
801
00:55:32,496 --> 00:55:34,957
Now, the tone of this scene
802
00:55:38,293 --> 00:55:40,003
was a very difficult one to get right.
803
00:55:40,087 --> 00:55:44,466
You've gotta just serve it up straight,
804
00:55:48,053 --> 00:55:53,809
not overplay it, in terms of what I was doing.
805
00:55:55,978 --> 00:55:58,939
Well, it's based on research and...
806
00:56:01,733 --> 00:56:06,655
But, you know, you've got to keep this film
807
00:56:07,364 --> 00:56:10,158
true to what it is, which is,
808
00:56:11,869 --> 00:56:16,540
it's a thriller. You know what I mean?
It's a thriller set in the real world.
809
00:56:17,165 --> 00:56:22,504
You don't want to deviate from that.
But along the way, you can harness
810
00:56:22,588 --> 00:56:28,093
the moral complexities
of the real-world environment.
811
00:56:30,137 --> 00:56:32,681
In this little detail, for instance.
812
00:56:37,394 --> 00:56:39,479
Just the minor humiliation.
813
00:56:40,522 --> 00:56:41,690
Check it out.
814
00:56:42,816 --> 00:56:47,446
Khalid is just so, you know...
It looks like he's done it many times,
815
00:56:48,822 --> 00:56:50,449
now he's doing it again.
816
00:56:52,618 --> 00:56:57,289
Those little shots of him taking this in
are really effective.
817
00:56:57,873 --> 00:57:01,001
Well, the translators were in
a hideously difficult place, weren't they?
818
00:57:01,168 --> 00:57:04,087
I mean, translators,
whether for the US or the UK.
819
00:57:04,171 --> 00:57:07,299
In other words, they were the guys
who were gonna help,
820
00:57:07,382 --> 00:57:10,928
but, of course, if it went wrong,
and when we go home,
821
00:57:11,011 --> 00:57:15,974
they are the ones that are left behind.
And I thought he captured that
822
00:57:18,769 --> 00:57:20,520
feeling very well.
823
00:57:22,022 --> 00:57:24,149
Now, here's the decoy guy
I'm supposed to meet.
824
00:57:24,232 --> 00:57:28,445
He's just a guy in the Republican Guard.
Low-level Republican Guard.
825
00:57:30,364 --> 00:57:32,703
- That's not necessary, Sergeant.
- Standard procedure, sir.
826
00:57:32,783 --> 00:57:37,204
And we see him knocked around a little bit.
827
00:57:41,500 --> 00:57:43,627
But I like this touch. You don't take that bait.
828
00:57:43,710 --> 00:57:48,131
Miller doesn't take that bait,
he makes no comment on it.
829
00:57:48,215 --> 00:57:51,468
- -Well, it's a war and...
- Yeah, exactly, guys get knocked about...
830
00:57:51,551 --> 00:57:53,348
- ...and he's a bad guy.
- And he's a bad guy.
831
00:57:53,428 --> 00:57:56,473
He's in the Republican Guard,
and he probably tried to shoot my friends
832
00:57:56,556 --> 00:57:58,225
- two weeks ago.
- Correct. Exactly.
833
00:57:58,308 --> 00:58:04,398
So we're in the middle of a war,
and it's not time to...
834
00:58:04,856 --> 00:58:07,359
Monty was very good with that, you know.
835
00:58:07,859 --> 00:58:10,779
Look, a bleeding-heart actor like myself,
836
00:58:10,862 --> 00:58:16,034
first thing I do if I see someone with a lump
on their head is try to get them some ice.
837
00:58:16,743 --> 00:58:19,913
- But who knows the circumstances?
- Exactly. Exactly.
838
00:58:20,372 --> 00:58:22,582
- We don't.
- As you say, he could have been...
839
00:58:22,708 --> 00:58:24,546
Hey, listen, this guy just gave us
a piece of intel.
840
00:58:24,626 --> 00:58:27,174
...caught while trying to get away,
or, you know, whatever, whatever.
841
00:58:27,254 --> 00:58:28,422
...named Sewed Hamza.
842
00:58:28,505 --> 00:58:29,548
He can ID him for me.
843
00:58:29,631 --> 00:58:30,928
I gotta get him down here
and ID him.
844
00:58:31,008 --> 00:58:37,347
So, here, I'm trying to talk my way
into the HVT wing to get to Seyyed,
845
00:58:38,015 --> 00:58:42,853
make my offer on behalf of Martin Brown.
846
00:58:42,936 --> 00:58:44,438
Good, let's go. Hey, Freddy.
847
00:58:45,772 --> 00:58:48,483
And the gambit has worked, so here we go.
848
00:58:49,651 --> 00:58:51,319
More little details.
849
00:58:53,780 --> 00:58:56,116
And Freddy, again, seeing it all.
850
00:58:57,826 --> 00:59:00,704
And I think you have country music
playing here, right? Yeah, it's nice.
851
00:59:00,787 --> 00:59:02,956
OGA coming in for an ID check.
852
00:59:03,790 --> 00:59:07,461
Those little details of the basketball game
and the music...
853
00:59:19,014 --> 00:59:20,390
Hey, Hamza.
854
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:21,808
Get up.
855
00:59:24,478 --> 00:59:27,898
On the level of narrative, now, you've got...
856
00:59:28,273 --> 00:59:32,235
- You gotta have the guy give a clue and die.
- Yeah, you have to.
857
00:59:33,236 --> 00:59:34,905
I said, get a medic!
858
00:59:34,988 --> 00:59:39,951
But it's not just that. There's that going on,
of course, on the surface,
859
00:59:40,035 --> 00:59:46,541
but also, really, it's about Miller
getting deeper into this thing.
860
00:59:46,625 --> 00:59:48,835
It's like, it really is not...
861
00:59:50,921 --> 00:59:55,092
You're looking for clarity,
and what you're getting is more mystery.
862
00:59:55,675 --> 00:59:58,720
Yeah, which is always a good...
863
00:59:58,804 --> 01:00:03,141
It's a necessary way
that you unfold a conspiracy thriller.
864
01:00:03,225 --> 01:00:05,185
That's exactly what you want.
865
01:00:05,685 --> 01:00:10,398
The more mystery there is, the more urgently
the central character needs clarity,
866
01:00:10,482 --> 01:00:15,862
and the more urgently he searches for
clarity, the more he uncovers more mystery.
867
01:00:17,906 --> 01:00:20,867
For an audience, it's very satisfying,
868
01:00:20,951 --> 01:00:24,454
'cause obviously you know, deep down,
the piece is gonna be resolved,
869
01:00:24,538 --> 01:00:26,373
or hopefully will be.
870
01:00:30,252 --> 01:00:34,381
And also, along with that development,
871
01:00:38,093 --> 01:00:40,387
you're unpicking more violence.
872
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,975
Certainly, that's what you get here.
873
01:00:46,017 --> 01:00:48,395
Yeah. It's one of the things that...
874
01:00:48,895 --> 01:00:52,732
If you step back from Baghdad for a moment,
875
01:00:52,816 --> 01:00:58,321
in terms of what it means
to everybody watching this thing,
876
01:01:00,574 --> 01:01:03,368
as an environment, it's very, very...
877
01:01:03,451 --> 01:01:06,997
Well, it is now,
but certainly even more so then,
878
01:01:07,497 --> 01:01:09,833
was a very extreme environment,
879
01:01:09,916 --> 01:01:15,005
full of danger, physical danger,
moral extremity, moral danger,
880
01:01:15,422 --> 01:01:19,050
and that drives the story, doesn't it?
881
01:01:21,386 --> 01:01:25,891
There are things you can do that are harder
to do in downtown New York or London.
882
01:01:28,310 --> 01:01:29,811
Where is Mohammed Al Rawi?
883
01:01:30,103 --> 01:01:32,189
I don't know.
884
01:01:51,124 --> 01:01:53,335
The Al Rasheed Hotel.
885
01:01:54,127 --> 01:01:56,421
Gonna go see Lawrie Dayne.
886
01:02:00,842 --> 01:02:02,844
And confront her about...
887
01:02:04,137 --> 01:02:06,598
The sites she's writing about
are sites that I've been to,
888
01:02:06,681 --> 01:02:09,142
and there's nothing there.
889
01:02:11,394 --> 01:02:13,897
She was one of the cheerleaders of the
890
01:02:15,982 --> 01:02:17,442
invasion,
891
01:02:23,698 --> 01:02:28,703
with this source she had, Magellan,
who we've established she hasn't even met.
892
01:02:29,412 --> 01:02:30,455
So...
893
01:02:35,502 --> 01:02:36,962
Good scene, this one.
894
01:02:38,129 --> 01:02:40,006
Yeah, Amy is terrific.
895
01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:42,425
I'm going to call you right back.
896
01:02:43,093 --> 01:02:44,135
What you got?
897
01:02:44,219 --> 01:02:46,263
Amy kind of exploded onto the scene
a few years ago
898
01:02:46,346 --> 01:02:51,351
in Ben's movie, in Gone Baby Gone.
She was just wonderful,
899
01:02:51,434 --> 01:02:55,897
and everyone said,
"Who the hell is this girl?"
900
01:02:56,273 --> 01:02:59,526
Oh, no. Come on, Miller.
I can't discuss my sources with you.
901
01:02:59,609 --> 01:03:01,861
Well, did you ever meet the guy?
902
01:03:02,028 --> 01:03:05,115
Well, it would've been so easy
to paint the journalist as...
903
01:03:05,198 --> 01:03:06,992
He's an Iraqi internal, for Christ's sake.
904
01:03:07,117 --> 01:03:09,160
Then how do you know
what he's saying is true?
905
01:03:09,244 --> 01:03:11,621
- ...you know, a strident figure.
- Right.
906
01:03:11,705 --> 01:03:16,501
I think what's interesting is
you take that failing, that all...
907
01:03:16,626 --> 01:03:20,297
Let's face it, a lot of press,
908
01:03:20,380 --> 01:03:22,382
both in the US and the UK,
909
01:03:23,591 --> 01:03:26,845
weren't critical enough about
asking questions in the run-up to this thing.
910
01:03:26,928 --> 01:03:29,848
There's no question...
Even they would agree with that.
911
01:03:31,933 --> 01:03:35,020
But she portrays it ultimately.
912
01:03:35,186 --> 01:03:37,689
It has already occurred to her
913
01:03:37,772 --> 01:03:40,859
and is already dawning on her
before this scene
914
01:03:41,192 --> 01:03:42,527
that she's been had.
915
01:03:42,610 --> 01:03:44,491
And she's not comfortable about it.
That's what I mean.
916
01:03:44,571 --> 01:03:48,658
She's not taking the View,
with her character, that,
917
01:03:48,742 --> 01:03:52,203
"I'm just gonna cover this up."
She's very, very conflicted about it.
918
01:03:52,287 --> 01:03:56,291
And that's what gets revealed in this scene.
And I think it's a...
919
01:03:56,416 --> 01:03:59,252
And it's such a tough thing to play,
because she is...
920
01:03:59,919 --> 01:04:02,422
You know, you can tell
she's been thinking about this.
921
01:04:02,505 --> 01:04:04,507
You can tell
this has been eating away at her.
922
01:04:04,591 --> 01:04:06,388
But at the same time,
she's trying to defend herself
923
01:04:06,468 --> 01:04:08,014
-from this guy who comes into her room...
Exactly.
924
01:04:08,094 --> 01:04:10,764
...and starts levying
all these accusations at her.
925
01:04:10,847 --> 01:04:14,601
And so it's a really tricky scene,
926
01:04:14,684 --> 01:04:17,979
and she just does it really well.
927
01:04:18,104 --> 01:04:21,983
"The truth about Saddam's WMD
programs." So I go to meet him.
928
01:04:22,108 --> 01:04:23,943
I remember her giving you degrees, too.
929
01:04:24,027 --> 01:04:26,488
It was take after take,
and they were all great.
930
01:04:26,613 --> 01:04:27,614
Yeah.
931
01:04:27,697 --> 01:04:29,783
Magellan's product, the raw intel.
932
01:04:30,533 --> 01:04:31,868
But when do you check the story?
933
01:04:31,951 --> 01:04:34,913
And I believed her when she told her story,
934
01:04:34,996 --> 01:04:38,249
that she'd met this guy
and he'd given her the documents.
935
01:04:38,333 --> 01:04:44,047
Actually, the story that she had to work with
was quite generalized, in a way,
936
01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:46,216
but she made it feel particular.
937
01:04:46,299 --> 01:04:48,009
And it was in that room
938
01:04:48,134 --> 01:04:52,222
I believed that you believed
that she was telling you a real story.
939
01:04:54,140 --> 01:04:57,227
That was very hard for you,
that scene, because
940
01:04:58,478 --> 01:05:02,982
in a way, you're just firing questions at her,
she's got the work to do.
941
01:05:08,988 --> 01:05:12,867
And you've somehow
got to take out of that...
942
01:05:12,992 --> 01:05:15,703
It's got to spring you into life
and give you more fuel,
943
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:18,289
but without you feeling sort of sententious
944
01:05:18,373 --> 01:05:21,042
and kind of, "Oh, my God,
I'm gonna give you a moral here."
945
01:05:21,167 --> 01:05:22,168
Right.
946
01:05:22,252 --> 01:05:27,173
I think we were pretty good
in this film about not,
947
01:05:28,842 --> 01:05:34,013
yeah, not letting this film at all deviate
away from a thriller route
948
01:05:34,097 --> 01:05:36,724
into preaching stuff.
949
01:05:38,059 --> 01:05:43,022
It's a story set in that world at that time,
and you can accept it as that.
950
01:05:43,106 --> 01:05:44,858
It doesn't make any sense.
951
01:05:44,941 --> 01:05:47,735
This is some fantastic exposition
through here.
952
01:05:48,194 --> 01:05:52,365
- I love it.
- Keep it moving, keep it moving, faster.
953
01:05:52,740 --> 01:05:56,703
But, I think, very dramatic,
'cause I think all of us,
954
01:05:58,371 --> 01:06:00,498
at some point, remember a moment
955
01:06:00,582 --> 01:06:03,960
where you kind of go, "Hang on a second,
maybe they don't have them."
956
01:06:04,043 --> 01:06:05,587
- Right, right.
- You know?
957
01:06:05,712 --> 01:06:09,674
I remember you directing Brendan
in this scene,
958
01:06:09,757 --> 01:06:11,638
and telling him it's fun to...
He didn't have to...
959
01:06:11,718 --> 01:06:14,596
'Cause we wanted him
to be working it out here.
960
01:06:15,930 --> 01:06:18,558
You said how fun it is
to watch smart people thinking.
961
01:06:18,641 --> 01:06:19,893
Yeah.
962
01:06:21,561 --> 01:06:25,732
SW, Mohammad N Ram was 'm Amman,
Jordan on February 5th, 2003.
963
01:06:27,609 --> 01:06:33,406
John Powell does some
very clever work, musically, here.
964
01:06:34,949 --> 01:06:37,076
He's modulating the pulse.
965
01:06:38,411 --> 01:06:43,583
Giving it, holding it back,
giving it, holding it back.
966
01:06:45,335 --> 01:06:49,506
Just so that as we step up, now,
from here to the end of the movie,
967
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,761
musically, he's got an absolutely...
As in any...
968
01:06:55,345 --> 01:07:00,141
Yeah, whether it's the Bourne movies or this
or whatever, you know, there's a...
969
01:07:01,100 --> 01:07:05,104
When you actually examine
what the composer has to do,
970
01:07:05,188 --> 01:07:11,152
he's got to get you
from the beginning of the film to the end,
971
01:07:12,779 --> 01:07:16,282
across bridges, up inclines,
972
01:07:18,117 --> 01:07:20,370
places to push, places to hold back,
973
01:07:20,453 --> 01:07:26,042
and he's gotta give you a graduated
journey all the way until your peak,
974
01:07:26,709 --> 01:07:30,797
and that's an incredibly meticulous journey
975
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,633
to do with musical pace,
976
01:07:35,802 --> 01:07:38,304
accuracy and clarity of the themes.
977
01:07:39,722 --> 01:07:41,391
I mean, he's a master of it, isn't he?
978
01:07:41,474 --> 01:07:44,143
- He's an absolute master, I think.
- Yeah.
979
01:07:45,019 --> 01:07:46,062
Stop.
980
01:07:55,697 --> 01:07:57,198
Where is Mohammed Al Rawi?
981
01:07:57,991 --> 01:07:59,826
Where is he?
982
01:08:00,493 --> 01:08:01,995
Tell me.
983
01:08:02,328 --> 01:08:05,748
Even if I knew, I would not tell you.
984
01:08:16,009 --> 01:08:17,719
All clear, Chief.
985
01:08:19,679 --> 01:08:21,806
- Send Freddy!
- Yes, sir!
986
01:08:21,889 --> 01:08:23,766
Freddy, on the move.
987
01:08:28,563 --> 01:08:30,940
Freddy, I need you to translate.
988
01:08:31,024 --> 01:08:33,526
Tell him I need to get a message
to General Al Rawi.
989
01:08:36,571 --> 01:08:40,950
Just starting to feel, now, it's...
The pieces are locking in, now,
990
01:08:42,910 --> 01:08:46,539
to create a climax.
991
01:08:46,623 --> 01:08:50,460
It's almost like you've got to
bring your pieces to the field.
992
01:08:52,045 --> 01:08:54,300
There's a lot of heavy lifts you have to do,
isn't there, in a movie,
993
01:08:54,380 --> 01:08:57,508
to get to a place where you can let it unfold.
994
01:08:57,592 --> 01:09:00,887
I told him I'd meet him
at the Adhamiya bus station tonight.
995
01:09:01,220 --> 01:09:03,640
If I can bring him in alive,
then we'll have our proof.
996
01:09:03,723 --> 01:09:06,559
If he talks,
then we'll get the truth about WMD.
997
01:09:06,684 --> 01:09:08,728
And again,
this was something I was saying earlier,
998
01:09:08,853 --> 01:09:11,606
although this story here is quite simple,
999
01:09:12,357 --> 01:09:15,151
the positioning of, say,
your character in this scene now,
1000
01:09:15,234 --> 01:09:21,199
where you've fully got behind the idea
that Al Rawi must be brought in,
1001
01:09:22,408 --> 01:09:26,537
where before, you were absolutely,
firmly of a different view,
1002
01:09:27,288 --> 01:09:28,960
you've understood something
quite different,
1003
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,668
that he can help...
1004
01:09:31,751 --> 01:09:33,920
All right, listen up,
we're going to Adhamiya.
1005
01:09:34,045 --> 01:09:36,631
...in terms of stopping the insurgency.
1006
01:09:36,756 --> 01:09:41,719
In effect, you're starting to see him not
so much as an enemy, but a possible ally.
1007
01:09:41,803 --> 01:09:44,514
That's quite a big journey
for a character to take.
1008
01:09:44,597 --> 01:09:49,977
And, of course, Freddy is
very uncomfortable with that as an idea.
1009
01:09:50,937 --> 01:09:54,774
But you have to commit yourself,
and Miller's made his choice.
1010
01:09:58,444 --> 01:10:00,279
And in a way...
1011
01:10:00,405 --> 01:10:01,572
Let's roll!
1012
01:10:03,282 --> 01:10:07,620
...it's only possibly an heroic choice
from Miller's point of View.
1013
01:10:08,079 --> 01:10:10,707
If you're an audience,
are you fully behind him?
1014
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:12,792
- Sort of.
- Right.
1015
01:10:13,251 --> 01:10:15,294
But there's something that,
1016
01:10:16,963 --> 01:10:19,716
in this world, in this story,
1017
01:10:19,799 --> 01:10:24,846
it's very hard to be comfortable about a
black-and-White choice for the hero, I think.
1018
01:10:25,012 --> 01:10:26,097
Right, right, it's not...
1019
01:10:26,180 --> 01:10:30,143
You start black and white
and, I think, you end black and white.
1020
01:10:30,768 --> 01:10:37,608
But it's always
degrees of moral lack of clarity.
1021
01:10:40,611 --> 01:10:41,654
Tell me.
1022
01:10:43,698 --> 01:10:47,535
You're starting to view him
slightly differently, aren't you, at this point?
1023
01:10:47,952 --> 01:10:50,204
Cause you know he's a bad guy...
1024
01:10:51,456 --> 01:10:54,500
He wants to meet you, sir.
1025
01:10:55,376 --> 01:10:56,794
...but what's his game?
1026
01:11:14,312 --> 01:11:15,813
Republican Palace.
1027
01:11:18,357 --> 01:11:21,652
Got to get a little "Mission accomplished"
in there.
1028
01:11:22,862 --> 01:11:24,530
Well, in terms of our story...
1029
01:11:24,655 --> 01:11:26,324
Captain Card,
1030
01:11:26,991 --> 01:11:29,452
officers and sailors
of the USS Abraham Lincoln...
1031
01:11:29,535 --> 01:11:35,666
...this is the moment, in any thriller,
where the bad guy thinks he's won.
1032
01:11:37,210 --> 01:11:39,796
In the battle of Iraq,
the United States...
1033
01:11:39,879 --> 01:11:43,299
Which, in a perfect world,
you'll always want to precede the moment
1034
01:11:43,382 --> 01:11:45,843
when it all collapses for him.
1035
01:11:48,596 --> 01:11:50,348
And that's, kind of,
1036
01:11:54,227 --> 01:11:56,020
the card we're playing here.
1037
01:11:56,729 --> 01:11:58,064
- Yeah?
- This is Briggs.
1038
01:11:58,189 --> 01:12:00,525
There you go. "We got a problem."
1039
01:12:00,608 --> 01:12:02,276
My local assets are down.
1040
01:12:02,401 --> 01:12:06,113
I got a report saying it was US Army
took them out and nobody called it in.
1041
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:07,698
Where's Miller?
1042
01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:09,283
Stand by.
1043
01:12:10,076 --> 01:12:13,371
All right, listen up.
I need everybody on a Blue Force Tracker.
1044
01:12:13,454 --> 01:12:15,414
Met-Delta 85th, XTF.
1045
01:12:19,085 --> 01:12:23,548
Poor Greg wasn't dealt the best card
on the mobile phone, was he there?
1046
01:12:24,924 --> 01:12:28,761
2003, special issue, big sat phone.
1047
01:12:35,726 --> 01:12:39,188
Well, now, we're getting a chase.
1048
01:12:39,272 --> 01:12:41,399
- Now it's ramping up.
- Yeah.
1049
01:12:42,608 --> 01:12:45,611
He's meeting with Al Rawi.
Son of a bitch.
1050
01:12:45,736 --> 01:12:48,990
Which is what you want.
You want move and countermove in a...
1051
01:12:49,115 --> 01:12:52,368
Follow Miller. He'll lead you right to him.
And when you find Al Rawi...
1052
01:12:52,451 --> 01:12:54,704
In these sorts of stories, you want...
1053
01:12:54,787 --> 01:12:57,498
- What about Miller?
- He's off reservation.
1054
01:12:57,623 --> 01:13:02,545
...the main protagonist to be
following a strong agenda,
1055
01:13:02,628 --> 01:13:07,133
and that causing collision.
1056
01:13:07,258 --> 01:13:11,345
Other characters have then
got to do things in response.
1057
01:13:11,470 --> 01:13:17,560
And that causes your central character
to have to modify or change his or her plans.
1058
01:13:17,643 --> 01:13:21,147
You're getting a ballet, basically.
1059
01:13:21,272 --> 01:13:25,943
A physical dance, basically.
1060
01:13:27,486 --> 01:13:32,658
'Cause once you've got it into that state,
you can start to develop pace and attack,
1061
01:13:34,368 --> 01:13:35,786
and now we're getting it.
1062
01:13:35,870 --> 01:13:38,122
I need a 0-2 bird with eyes over Adhamiya.
1063
01:13:38,205 --> 01:13:41,709
I want an ISO on all military radio
and cell phone transmissions.
1064
01:13:41,834 --> 01:13:46,672
We're at the very beginnings
now of what is, in effect,
1065
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:54,055
I don't know, must be a good 20 minutes
of sustained action.
1066
01:13:56,557 --> 01:13:58,726
When you're in a cutting room,
1067
01:14:01,270 --> 01:14:05,232
the big job is just interleaving
these elements
1068
01:14:05,358 --> 01:14:08,486
so you've got clarity
1069
01:14:10,237 --> 01:14:14,200
and you're able to moderate pace.
1070
01:14:16,744 --> 01:14:20,998
- That's where Mr. Rouse is a master.
- Yeah, man, he sure is.
1071
01:14:21,499 --> 01:14:23,542
It's something big, Marty.
1072
01:14:26,629 --> 01:14:29,799
Now we go down for CPA orders
one and two.
1073
01:14:37,223 --> 01:14:40,810
This whole section was a massive challenge
1074
01:14:40,893 --> 01:14:44,814
for our lords of the camera.
1075
01:14:45,564 --> 01:14:48,234
Barry Ackroyd, our DOP.
1076
01:14:52,655 --> 01:14:54,323
He and I go way back.
1077
01:14:54,991 --> 01:15:01,330
We did United 93 together and then,
obviously, he shot Hurl Looker, brilliantly.
1078
01:15:04,583 --> 01:15:09,755
And he had the problem of...
Which we talked about several times.
1079
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,008
I wanted night to be night.
1080
01:15:13,509 --> 01:15:17,596
And I wanted to see if we could shoot,
1081
01:15:18,764 --> 01:15:21,058
effectively, an action thriller
1082
01:15:22,268 --> 01:15:24,020
finale, a large piece,
1083
01:15:24,854 --> 01:15:30,693
but with the true demands of it being night.
1084
01:15:30,776 --> 01:15:32,695
In other words, I didn't want it to be overlit.
1085
01:15:32,778 --> 01:15:35,906
I didn't want to give him or Klemens
1086
01:15:37,283 --> 01:15:40,453
and all the other operators,
but principally Klemens,
1087
01:15:43,581 --> 01:15:46,709
the amount of light
that they would have most needed
1088
01:15:46,792 --> 01:15:50,212
to be able to follow this kind of physicality
1089
01:15:50,296 --> 01:15:56,218
with any, sort of, hope of success,
in terms of focus.
1090
01:15:57,636 --> 01:16:01,974
It made their life incredibly hard.
1091
01:16:03,309 --> 01:16:05,311
But they never complained
and they went for it.
1092
01:16:05,394 --> 01:16:07,146
I mean, incredible...
1093
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,067
As a director, you know, it's that thing of,
1094
01:16:11,150 --> 01:16:15,404
you look sometimes, or not sometimes,
every single day,
1095
01:16:15,988 --> 01:16:21,494
at the quality of courage
1096
01:16:21,577 --> 01:16:24,830
that the people that make the film
with you are willing to...
1097
01:16:24,955 --> 01:16:28,292
Whether it's you or Barry or Sammy,
1098
01:16:28,584 --> 01:16:32,505
the things you ask, as a director,
of people to do
1099
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:34,423
that can expose them.
1100
01:16:34,757 --> 01:16:38,135
My rushes might not look good,
and yet they go for it.
1101
01:16:38,969 --> 01:16:44,100
I mean, he's probably on a 40 here,
but this is Steadicam and it's dark in there.
1102
01:16:44,183 --> 01:16:46,018
- -Yeah.
- I mean, look at that.
1103
01:16:46,143 --> 01:16:47,937
- And there's a ton of...
- Pitch.
1104
01:16:48,020 --> 01:16:53,275
Yeah. A ton of longer-lens stuff
of me walking, alternately,
1105
01:16:53,359 --> 01:16:56,529
and running and stopping,
and the camera moving, it's really...
1106
01:16:56,612 --> 01:17:01,367
The focal plane was very shallow
and maybe never...
1107
01:17:03,536 --> 01:17:05,955
They're just a terrific crew.
1108
01:17:06,622 --> 01:17:07,957
Terrific crew.
1109
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:14,964
I think that a lot of DOPs
would never have let me do what Barry...
1110
01:17:15,297 --> 01:17:19,552
But you needed that.
I mean, just walking into this dark...
1111
01:17:19,635 --> 01:17:23,806
It looks real.
It was. It was dark. I mean, you know...
1112
01:17:24,682 --> 01:17:25,975
And I think it... Yeah.
1113
01:17:26,058 --> 01:17:30,312
You can look at some of the images
from here on to the end and say,
1114
01:17:31,230 --> 01:17:36,652
"Well, technically, they're edgy,"
and all of that.
1115
01:17:38,028 --> 01:17:44,410
But that's what makes the sequence
feel like it's got the bite of reality.
1116
01:17:45,369 --> 01:17:48,080
It doesn't have the gloss
1117
01:17:49,707 --> 01:17:50,833
of fiction.
1118
01:17:50,916 --> 01:17:55,546
Somewhere it, sort of, sits between the two,
which is good, I think.
1119
01:17:56,755 --> 01:17:58,177
I always love this little sequence, too,
1120
01:17:58,257 --> 01:18:00,843
because it's like he's at home,
he's watching.
1121
01:18:00,926 --> 01:18:04,847
He's watching the fact that
they've de-Ba'athified
1122
01:18:04,930 --> 01:18:06,182
and they've disbanded the army,
1123
01:18:06,265 --> 01:18:10,269
and it's just, instantaneously,
these guys pick up their arms.
1124
01:18:10,394 --> 01:18:13,606
- It's just that they've been waiting.
- It's gonna be no deal.
1125
01:18:13,731 --> 01:18:17,109
That's it. So it's an insurgency,
1126
01:18:17,193 --> 01:18:20,446
and the connection
between those two things,
1127
01:18:21,947 --> 01:18:27,703
sending hundreds of thousands of people
away, armed, and saying,
1128
01:18:27,786 --> 01:18:30,289
"There's not a place for you in this country."
1129
01:18:31,457 --> 01:18:34,460
But what's interesting is, is that thing...
1130
01:18:35,878 --> 01:18:39,632
Now, morally, the equation's turned again.
1131
01:18:39,757 --> 01:18:41,884
Yeah, you were seeking him as an ally,
1132
01:18:41,967 --> 01:18:45,262
Miller was seeking him as an ally
five minutes ago.
1133
01:18:45,596 --> 01:18:47,973
And as an audience,
you're probably uncomfortable with that,
1134
01:18:48,098 --> 01:18:50,643
but you're probably,
in terms of the story of this film, going,
1135
01:18:50,768 --> 01:18:54,146
"Okay, well, our hero wants that
and it's going to help present..."
1136
01:18:54,230 --> 01:18:58,400
Now, Al Rawi is throwing down.
1137
01:18:58,484 --> 01:19:04,990
So the idea of using him as an ally,
at this point, is impossible.
1138
01:19:05,115 --> 01:19:08,577
So the entire moral equation for Miller,
1139
01:19:08,661 --> 01:19:11,000
- although he doesn't yet know it...
- He doesn't know it yet.
1140
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:12,790
...has been removed.
1141
01:19:15,125 --> 01:19:17,670
- Unless he can talk him out of it.
- Yeah.
1142
01:19:18,170 --> 01:19:21,674
But yes, no, barring that, then they're at war.
1143
01:19:23,509 --> 01:19:25,010
I lost contact.
1144
01:19:31,934 --> 01:19:35,479
This is Rouse getting me out of dutch there.
1145
01:19:36,313 --> 01:19:40,150
Collapsing the time a little bit,
so we can buy that.
1146
01:19:40,985 --> 01:19:42,573
They're always hideous moments,
aren't they?
1147
01:19:42,653 --> 01:19:44,321
Trying to get people in and out of cars.
1148
01:19:44,405 --> 01:19:46,573
- 'Cause the truth is...
- So slow...
1149
01:19:47,283 --> 01:19:52,329
But you always want them to feel
dynamic onscreen, so get the scissors in.
1150
01:19:53,872 --> 01:19:56,583
All units, we need help
in the Adhamiya district.
1151
01:19:56,667 --> 01:19:59,169
Copy that, MET Team.
This is Vanguard 6 and TF221.
1152
01:19:59,253 --> 01:20:04,550
And we, to a lesser extent on this film
than the past two Bourne films,
1153
01:20:04,633 --> 01:20:09,680
but still, he was there for a little while,
Dan Bradley came.
1154
01:20:09,930 --> 01:20:11,056
- -Yeah.
- And...
1155
01:20:12,266 --> 01:20:14,351
- Just when we needed him most, actually.
- Yeah.
1156
01:20:14,435 --> 01:20:18,105
You know what I mean?
He came in towards the end
1157
01:20:18,188 --> 01:20:22,067
when we still had
a mountain of action to climb
1158
01:20:22,776 --> 01:20:24,611
and not a lot of time to do it.
1159
01:20:24,695 --> 01:20:29,616
And just that huge, massive
1160
01:20:30,659 --> 01:20:32,286
- energy...
- Yes, yes.
1161
01:20:33,787 --> 01:20:38,083
He helped us get over the line, actually,
is the truth of it, isn't it?
1162
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,755
Now he's a first unit director,
so hopefully we'll...
1163
01:20:42,838 --> 01:20:44,631
Yeah. Yeah.
1164
01:20:51,263 --> 01:20:53,515
Yeah, he has
1165
01:20:55,851 --> 01:20:58,604
- done a lot for me.
- Me, too.
1166
01:21:02,274 --> 01:21:05,736
It's that old thing.
As a director, you get given a lot of credit
1167
01:21:05,819 --> 01:21:10,783
for a lot of things that belong to the people
who work alongside you, in truth.
1168
01:21:11,408 --> 01:21:14,453
- Well, you get the blame, too. 80...
- Yeah, that's true.
1169
01:21:14,536 --> 01:21:15,624
- -Yeah. In fact, what am I saying?
- Yeah,
1170
01:21:15,704 --> 01:21:17,001
- I don't know what you're talking about.
- Yeah.
1171
01:21:17,081 --> 01:21:20,000
- Take the credit.
- It was all my work, wasn't it?
1172
01:21:23,796 --> 01:21:25,339
Well, now, we're into...
1173
01:21:26,465 --> 01:21:29,176
We're getting this chase
into a good place, now.
1174
01:21:30,052 --> 01:21:32,221
You know, you're setting up a fort,
1175
01:21:32,304 --> 01:21:35,933
so there's gonna be a physical place
where it's gonna take place.
1176
01:21:37,017 --> 01:21:39,645
You've got your hero in great difficulty.
1177
01:21:40,687 --> 01:21:41,730
And...
1178
01:21:49,029 --> 01:21:52,908
Briggs is onto you.
And here come the cavalry.
1179
01:21:52,991 --> 01:21:54,076
All the high-tech...
1180
01:21:54,159 --> 01:21:55,372
We're three klicks from target area.
1181
01:21:55,452 --> 01:21:57,871
All right, put us down.
Find an LZ a klick from here.
1182
01:21:57,955 --> 01:22:00,040
But again, it's playing with,
1183
01:22:01,834 --> 01:22:05,671
"Are we on their side? Are we on your side?
Are you working together? Are you not?"
1184
01:22:05,754 --> 01:22:08,549
You know, it's the...
1185
01:22:11,718 --> 01:22:14,054
Hopefully, the feeling in this film
1186
01:22:14,138 --> 01:22:18,725
that you've got
a driving, straight thriller premise,
1187
01:22:18,809 --> 01:22:23,313
your hero's in jeopardy, people are coming,
there's a bad guy he's gonna confront,
1188
01:22:24,356 --> 01:22:29,736
is pitted against... But the bad guys
are the ones coming to get you out.
1189
01:22:31,947 --> 01:22:34,241
It's all a little bit unclear.
1190
01:22:35,868 --> 01:22:38,287
I like that in this film.
1191
01:22:50,883 --> 01:22:54,803
Jason wanted to do
the going-down-the-rope thing for 50 feet,
1192
01:22:56,180 --> 01:22:59,725
- but unfortunately...
- We ran out of time.
1193
01:23:01,018 --> 01:23:03,437
This is good. It's always... Yeah.
1194
01:23:03,979 --> 01:23:07,191
Whenever a teenager has a gun
to your head, it's not a good thing.
1195
01:23:07,274 --> 01:23:08,946
No, you don't know
quite what's gonna happen.
1196
01:23:09,026 --> 01:23:10,319
You don't know.
1197
01:23:10,402 --> 01:23:14,031
- I love this look from Yigal here.
- Yeah, I know.
1198
01:23:14,448 --> 01:23:18,202
- He just looks at him, look. Yeah.
- He just looks at him.
1199
01:23:18,285 --> 01:23:19,620
"Fuck off."
1200
01:23:21,246 --> 01:23:23,916
And he doesn't like it. It's like,
1201
01:23:23,999 --> 01:23:28,128
- "Have you got balls, or what?" Yeah.
- There's nothing you can do.
1202
01:23:29,755 --> 01:23:32,424
Yeah, Yigal was just...
And look at how spare he is,
1203
01:23:32,508 --> 01:23:36,261
he just doesn't...
There's no superfluous movement.
1204
01:23:36,345 --> 01:23:37,596
- -Yeah.
- It's just...
1205
01:23:37,679 --> 01:23:39,681
I'm a chief warrant officer with the US Army.
1206
01:23:39,765 --> 01:23:42,601
- Well, this is the sort of...
- I found it really easy
1207
01:23:43,393 --> 01:23:48,482
to play these scenes with him
because he's just a very honest actor.
1208
01:23:48,565 --> 01:23:52,110
And if you look into his eyes,
he's right there.
1209
01:23:53,237 --> 01:23:56,490
I really liked watching him.
1210
01:23:58,534 --> 01:24:01,119
- He's Iraqi by birth.
- Yeah.
1211
01:24:01,245 --> 01:24:07,417
And he had a great love and understanding
of the country.
1212
01:24:10,420 --> 01:24:12,005
What programs?
1213
01:24:12,965 --> 01:24:14,216
There are no programs.
1214
01:24:14,299 --> 01:24:18,887
And I think somewhere in that conflicted,
1215
01:24:21,598 --> 01:24:25,102
Iraqi-by-birth, but, obviously,
having not grown up there,
1216
01:24:25,936 --> 01:24:31,858
somewhere, that confusion, in a sense,
he brought to that character.
1217
01:24:33,569 --> 01:24:37,489
Because that character is a man
1218
01:24:38,448 --> 01:24:42,661
who grew up in the Ba'athist system.
He's not a good man at all.
1219
01:24:42,744 --> 01:24:43,999
- Right.
- He'd have had to have been
1220
01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:46,748
- a ruthless, ambitious careerist.
- Absolutely, yeah.
1221
01:24:46,832 --> 01:24:50,961
But he's not a psychopathic Saddamite.
1222
01:24:51,044 --> 01:24:52,504
Right, right.
1223
01:24:53,297 --> 01:24:55,465
He would have had to have dealt with
those people,
1224
01:24:55,549 --> 01:24:59,261
and he certainly prospered on them,
but he didn't approve of them.
1225
01:24:59,344 --> 01:25:02,639
He's a nationalist. He's a strong...
1226
01:25:02,723 --> 01:25:05,892
And he thought his moment had come,
Al Rawi, didn't he?
1227
01:25:06,018 --> 01:25:09,271
He thought he was gonna emerge
as a leading player
1228
01:25:10,022 --> 01:25:12,149
in post-invasion Iraq,
1229
01:25:12,232 --> 01:25:18,196
because he dealt with the US in advance.
1230
01:25:18,780 --> 01:25:23,785
He tried to, in a sense,
see which way the wind was blowing
1231
01:25:24,036 --> 01:25:27,956
and play his cards accordingly.
And, of course, he gets betrayed,
1232
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:31,043
and you feel the real...
1233
01:25:31,126 --> 01:25:35,297
And what I liked was when we talked about
when we did that scene,
1234
01:25:36,048 --> 01:25:39,259
I think I'm giving him
a piece of information that's...
1235
01:25:39,968 --> 01:25:42,721
"No, but you see it's all been
this horrible misunderstanding."
1236
01:25:42,804 --> 01:25:44,973
- Yeah, yeah.
- But what he can speak to
1237
01:25:45,057 --> 01:25:48,644
with absolute authority
is the way that power works.
1238
01:25:48,727 --> 01:25:49,811
Yeah.
1239
01:25:51,897 --> 01:25:54,858
And it just dawns on me when he says,
1240
01:25:54,941 --> 01:25:57,235
"They heard exactly
what they wanted to hear."
1241
01:25:57,402 --> 01:25:59,696
General, if you come in with me...
1242
01:25:59,780 --> 01:26:02,949
No, no, the film
1243
01:26:03,075 --> 01:26:07,746
- is, in many ways, the education of Miller...
- Yeah.
1244
01:26:09,414 --> 01:26:12,542
- ...to the realities of power.
- Yeah.
1245
01:26:12,626 --> 01:26:14,753
This is how it really works.
1246
01:26:15,337 --> 01:26:17,923
Look at Yigal here. I mean, he just...
1247
01:26:18,090 --> 01:26:21,385
Why take Iraq apart piece by piece?
1248
01:26:21,468 --> 01:26:23,178
Just utterly believable.
1249
01:26:23,261 --> 01:26:26,348
It's a great moment, though.
I love the way your head goes down,
1250
01:26:26,431 --> 01:26:29,309
'cause it's sort of crushed you, too.
You know what I mean?
1251
01:26:29,434 --> 01:26:31,061
- -Yeah.
- You've gone in there,
1252
01:26:31,144 --> 01:26:32,729
"No, but wait! Hang on a second!"
1253
01:26:32,813 --> 01:26:34,526
-You know what I mean? It's like...
Exactly.
1254
01:26:34,606 --> 01:26:38,860
"I've got this piece of information."
And the other shoe drops.
1255
01:26:38,944 --> 01:26:41,571
And you're in a world of problems now.
1256
01:26:41,655 --> 01:26:44,616
So Where is my place, Mr. Miller?
1257
01:26:45,283 --> 01:26:47,119
"On a deck of cards?" I love the way...
1258
01:26:47,953 --> 01:26:51,164
And what I love about that, as well, is,
he goes personal, doesn't he?
1259
01:26:51,289 --> 01:26:53,253
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- You feel there's a real personal
1260
01:26:53,333 --> 01:26:54,835
sense of betrayal. It's like...
1261
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:56,837
And his whole life
had been leading up to this.
1262
01:26:56,962 --> 01:26:57,963
Yeah.
1263
01:26:58,046 --> 01:27:01,803
Finally, there's a place
where this guy is positioned to...
1264
01:27:01,883 --> 01:27:03,176
Take over.
1265
01:27:06,972 --> 01:27:08,807
And now, he's gonna take it out on you.
1266
01:27:13,979 --> 01:27:17,023
Quickly! The Americans are coming!
1267
01:27:18,692 --> 01:27:21,027
You know,
these guys were all Special Forces,
1268
01:27:21,153 --> 01:27:23,405
and Jason is utterly convincing.
1269
01:27:25,157 --> 01:27:26,199
Utterly convincing.
1270
01:27:26,324 --> 01:27:28,535
I mean, one of the best guys
We ever heard do accents,
1271
01:27:28,660 --> 01:27:30,662
American accents, that is.
1272
01:27:31,204 --> 01:27:36,084
The accent that he's got in this movie,
I would never know that he was English.
1273
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:39,337
He just really has
1274
01:27:39,921 --> 01:27:44,885
- got a real, real facility for that.
- Yeah.
1275
01:27:45,010 --> 01:27:47,804
But the whole characterization is because
he'd spent a lot of time
1276
01:27:47,888 --> 01:27:50,515
when he did Black Hawk Down,
just the way he moves,
1277
01:27:50,599 --> 01:27:53,518
he's very, very physical, very convincing.
1278
01:27:54,227 --> 01:27:55,440
And wears a hell of a mustache.
1279
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:57,731
And wears a hell of a mustache,
that's right.
1280
01:27:57,856 --> 01:28:00,525
Pored over every detail with these guys
1281
01:28:00,609 --> 01:28:02,819
to make sure
that there was not one little thing...
1282
01:28:02,903 --> 01:28:05,655
I always say that performances
are about details,
1283
01:28:05,739 --> 01:28:09,326
and he's just really wonderful in that way.
1284
01:28:09,409 --> 01:28:11,745
And, incidentally,
the Special Forces guy on the set,
1285
01:28:11,870 --> 01:28:15,332
who was looking after us for security,
had the same mustache.
1286
01:28:15,415 --> 01:28:16,750
- So...
- Yeah.
1287
01:28:16,875 --> 01:28:18,877
...if you fight us.
1288
01:28:20,587 --> 01:28:23,548
You have to come in now
before it's too late.
1289
01:28:23,632 --> 01:28:26,676
You think the war is over.
1290
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:28,553
Now we're sort of,
1291
01:28:29,805 --> 01:28:33,058
in terms of choreographing action,
1292
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:35,477
you're at the perfect moment
1293
01:28:35,894 --> 01:28:39,564
where you're gonna let it go.
1294
01:28:39,773 --> 01:28:43,151
It's all been, really, for this build.
And there you go.
1295
01:28:44,319 --> 01:28:49,491
One by one, you see all of our guys
throw themselves into the fight.
1296
01:28:49,574 --> 01:28:51,284
- -Yeah.
- Join the fight.
1297
01:28:54,162 --> 01:28:55,413
Grenade!
1298
01:28:55,497 --> 01:28:56,832
Go! Go!
1299
01:29:03,588 --> 01:29:06,174
This is, again, one of those Rouse things
where it's an eggy bit.
1300
01:29:06,258 --> 01:29:08,343
How do you get four guys with guns
out of the room?
1301
01:29:08,426 --> 01:29:11,429
- -Yeah.
- He may still be alive, and...
1302
01:29:12,430 --> 01:29:14,683
But that's just one of those...
1303
01:29:16,518 --> 01:29:20,772
Well, often, I think, in these sorts of films,
1304
01:29:21,940 --> 01:29:25,360
you reach moments like that
where certain things have to happen,
1305
01:29:25,443 --> 01:29:27,362
in terms of physicality.
1306
01:29:27,863 --> 01:29:32,909
And it's very often the conviction
with which you do them that carries them.
1307
01:29:32,993 --> 01:29:36,288
Rouse did a really good job
of cutting back to all these other stories,
1308
01:29:36,371 --> 01:29:41,209
so there's a disorientation that you get
because the chaos of battle has started.
1309
01:29:41,293 --> 01:29:43,879
- -Yeah.
- And that allows for a lot, too.
1310
01:29:45,547 --> 01:29:50,468
You can see a messy fight where these guys
are digging at each other's eyes and...
1311
01:29:55,557 --> 01:29:57,559
Come on! Move!
1312
01:29:58,643 --> 01:30:01,730
I mean, I always wanted this film to kind of...
1313
01:30:03,064 --> 01:30:07,277
You've got to believe, "Okay, it's a story.
It's not exactly how it happened."
1314
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:10,113
Although these sorts of things
absolutely did happen.
1315
01:30:10,196 --> 01:30:13,742
But I wanted it to feel like
the insurgency had started,
1316
01:30:13,825 --> 01:30:16,745
that somewhere, the stakes of the film
1317
01:30:16,828 --> 01:30:20,040
that you stated from the beginning,
"Is this world..."
1318
01:30:20,206 --> 01:30:22,918
Okay, it happens to be Iraq,
that's the world we're talking about.
1319
01:30:23,043 --> 01:30:25,962
"Is this world gonna be okay or not?"
1320
01:30:26,046 --> 01:30:29,466
And you want to feel
that the story that we're telling
1321
01:30:30,133 --> 01:30:33,386
is intimately bound up
with what's happening in the wider world,
1322
01:30:33,511 --> 01:30:35,305
and this is it.
1323
01:30:35,722 --> 01:30:39,976
Al Rawi's thrown down.
The Sunni insurgency's beginning,
1324
01:30:44,689 --> 01:30:45,857
and now,
1325
01:30:47,025 --> 01:30:51,196
it feels to me like, morally,
we're entering a different phase again.
1326
01:30:51,321 --> 01:30:56,493
Because you're still determined
to bring him in,
1327
01:31:00,830 --> 01:31:03,083
but to what end?
Do you know what I mean?
1328
01:31:04,876 --> 01:31:06,586
It's almost because
1329
01:31:08,546 --> 01:31:12,008
you've got to complete your mission,
really, isn't it?
1330
01:31:12,217 --> 01:31:15,303
Yeah, I mean, as long as there is any chance
1331
01:31:15,387 --> 01:31:18,890
that he can be convinced
to stand his men down...
1332
01:31:22,018 --> 01:31:24,437
- Although, given CPA...
- Or that bringing him in
1333
01:31:24,562 --> 01:31:26,982
- -and telling the truth, I think is...
- Yeah, yeah.
1334
01:31:27,065 --> 01:31:29,567
...sort of where you're getting, aren't you?
1335
01:31:31,194 --> 01:31:35,198
You know, I might not be able
to solve the problems of the world,
1336
01:31:36,032 --> 01:31:37,325
but that is my piece.
1337
01:31:37,409 --> 01:31:40,745
That's the piece I came for
and that's the piece I'm gonna get.
1338
01:31:40,870 --> 01:31:44,374
Right. It's like
what we were talking about the other day.
1339
01:31:44,457 --> 01:31:47,377
- I can't do anything about the big...
- Yeah.
1340
01:31:49,129 --> 01:31:51,423
The larger forces at work here.
1341
01:31:56,594 --> 01:31:58,555
It's amazing. When you...
1342
01:32:00,390 --> 01:32:04,978
People who don't watch this DVD
wonder what, say,
1343
01:32:05,103 --> 01:32:08,523
you and I spend a lot of our time
talking about during the making of a film.
1344
01:32:08,606 --> 01:32:10,942
Yeah, some of it will be technical issues.
1345
01:32:11,067 --> 01:32:14,112
But, yeah, and there's always that sort of
1346
01:32:16,072 --> 01:32:18,158
joke shtick about, "What's my motivation?"
1347
01:32:18,283 --> 01:32:22,078
But the truth is, trying to piece together,
1348
01:32:23,329 --> 01:32:29,419
together, a director and an actor,
in any given situation,
1349
01:32:29,502 --> 01:32:32,714
trying to find out
why you're doing what you're doing
1350
01:32:32,797 --> 01:32:35,341
and what you're aiming for,
and what you're gonna get out of it,
1351
01:32:35,467 --> 01:32:38,553
and what that will give you
to go to the next scene
1352
01:32:38,636 --> 01:32:40,263
is a huge part of it.
1353
01:32:40,346 --> 01:32:43,892
Because if you can
piece those pieces together,
1354
01:32:43,975 --> 01:32:46,272
and they're often very conflicting...
It's never clear, is it?
1355
01:32:46,352 --> 01:32:50,940
Sometimes. But a lot of the time,
in the really big stuff, it isn't clear,
1356
01:32:51,024 --> 01:32:53,651
or it's contradictory or it's duplicator y.
1357
01:32:53,777 --> 01:32:57,822
But if you can get some clarity,
that's the foundation stone, isn't it,
1358
01:32:58,323 --> 01:33:02,118
for a film that feels right.
1359
01:33:03,036 --> 01:33:04,954
- You know?
- Yeah, yeah.
1360
01:33:06,331 --> 01:33:10,335
It goes back to that point about
the writer will have had a go
1361
01:33:10,460 --> 01:33:13,755
at solving those problems,
and will have solved some of them,
1362
01:33:13,838 --> 01:33:17,175
and others of them
will have offered a fix to those problems.
1363
01:33:17,300 --> 01:33:21,846
And then you take that,
and during the process of making it,
1364
01:33:21,971 --> 01:33:25,141
you explore those solutions.
1365
01:33:25,225 --> 01:33:29,229
And some of them hold good,
and some of them you shift and amend.
1366
01:33:29,854 --> 01:33:32,107
And that's basically
the way a film's made, isn't it?
1367
01:33:32,190 --> 01:33:35,485
It's a constant process
of going down a tunnel
1368
01:33:36,653 --> 01:33:38,404
further and further,
1369
01:33:39,989 --> 01:33:41,491
collectively,
1370
01:33:42,325 --> 01:33:46,329
to find a truth. That's what you're aiming at.
1371
01:33:46,412 --> 01:33:51,042
And when films work,
somewhere, collectively,
1372
01:33:52,585 --> 01:33:54,796
it all feels purposeful.
1373
01:33:54,879 --> 01:33:58,007
And you get to the end and go,
"Oh, yeah, I get it."
1374
01:34:00,718 --> 01:34:03,721
But it rarely feels like that
when you're in the middle of it, does it?
1375
01:34:03,847 --> 01:34:06,766
Well, certainly, this one was very tricky.
1376
01:34:06,891 --> 01:34:08,893
No, I mean, we really...
1377
01:34:10,228 --> 01:34:12,147
There were some things we knew
the whole time
1378
01:34:12,230 --> 01:34:14,315
and we definitely knew going in,
1379
01:34:14,399 --> 01:34:17,735
and then there were just some things
that we didn't.
1380
01:34:17,944 --> 01:34:22,782
And you're very inhibited, inevitably,
by the real-world aspects
1381
01:34:22,907 --> 01:34:25,451
and the sensitivities of the war.
1382
01:34:25,577 --> 01:34:30,707
So we were talking about real soldiers.
That's why they were there. To constantly...
1383
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:34,294
The fact that
this was occurring in Iraq,
1384
01:34:34,419 --> 01:34:37,088
so there were sensitivities there...
1385
01:34:40,633 --> 01:34:46,306
It's not easy making a piece of fiction
this close to the real world,
1386
01:34:46,431 --> 01:34:50,727
using this many elements that are, in truth,
drawn from the real world,
1387
01:34:51,603 --> 01:34:55,648
spun around in a way that will support
1388
01:34:57,483 --> 01:35:00,320
a thriller, and yet be true to that world,
1389
01:35:01,779 --> 01:35:06,659
sensitive to that world, but also give
an audience, that are gonna watch it,
1390
01:35:06,784 --> 01:35:12,373
the feeling that they're gonna be rewarded
by watching it in every way.
1391
01:35:12,457 --> 01:35:17,629
It's gonna be a cinematic experience.
It's gonna have a ride element like this.
1392
01:35:18,963 --> 01:35:21,007
You're gonna feel that you're...
1393
01:35:22,634 --> 01:35:25,261
It's been worth you watching this thing.
1394
01:35:25,345 --> 01:35:30,558
And it felt, didn't it,
like there were a lot of factors
1395
01:35:30,642 --> 01:35:34,437
- that we had to steer through.
- Yeah, definitely, definitely.
1396
01:35:35,438 --> 01:35:38,358
And a couple paths
we had to half-head down.
1397
01:35:38,483 --> 01:35:39,525
Yeah.
1398
01:35:42,195 --> 01:35:43,655
Double back.
1399
01:35:46,157 --> 01:35:48,618
So it's now we should thank the studio.
1400
01:35:48,701 --> 01:35:50,912
- Listen, it...
- Yeah.
1401
01:35:50,995 --> 01:35:55,166
Again, people watching this,
1402
01:35:57,168 --> 01:36:02,257
you've gotta have nerves of steel, I think,
to run those studios,
1403
01:36:03,174 --> 01:36:06,135
and some pretty big balls. I mean, to make...
1404
01:36:07,929 --> 01:36:11,432
To take the proposition that you and I,
out of Bourne Ultimatum,
1405
01:36:11,516 --> 01:36:16,354
are gonna go and make a film,
a substantial film, set in Iraq
1406
01:36:16,437 --> 01:36:20,525
at the outset of the war
on quite a controversial topic,
1407
01:36:20,608 --> 01:36:24,779
and that we're gonna try and hone,
somewhere out of that,
1408
01:36:24,862 --> 01:36:29,450
really, pretty unappealing territory
from a studio,
1409
01:36:31,286 --> 01:36:35,290
a thriller that a broad audience
is gonna watch...
1410
01:36:35,373 --> 01:36:39,043
We're going to try and say
to the Bourne audience, effectively,
1411
01:36:39,127 --> 01:36:43,214
"You enjoyed those films, come with us
and take a step into the real world"
1412
01:36:43,339 --> 01:36:46,634
and see if that can be made to work,
1413
01:36:46,718 --> 01:36:49,554
- that's a big bet.
- Right.
1414
01:36:49,679 --> 01:36:51,639
And then you add to that
1415
01:36:53,308 --> 01:36:59,147
the many difficulties
that you find on a film like that or like this.
1416
01:36:59,230 --> 01:37:01,819
As you say, you go down roads,
it doesn't quite work,
1417
01:37:01,899 --> 01:37:03,735
you have to come back.
1418
01:37:06,070 --> 01:37:09,240
It says a lot for them that we did it
1419
01:37:11,868 --> 01:37:13,790
- and there were no cross words, really.
- No, no, no.
1420
01:37:13,870 --> 01:37:16,247
I mean, I'm sure there were days
when they were anxious.
1421
01:37:16,331 --> 01:37:19,083
Certainly were days when you and I were.
1422
01:37:21,252 --> 01:37:25,173
But when you get to this moment in the film,
1423
01:37:26,257 --> 01:37:29,844
I always go, "Well, we did it."
1424
01:37:30,219 --> 01:37:34,682
We got to a great ending, a confrontation,
1425
01:37:40,271 --> 01:37:43,566
with a great question from Yigal
1426
01:37:45,026 --> 01:37:47,195
- which can't be answered.
- Right.
1427
01:37:48,780 --> 01:37:52,867
And a great statement of Freddy's belief.
1428
01:37:53,117 --> 01:37:55,286
What the fuck did you do?
1429
01:37:55,370 --> 01:37:59,874
Which, in a way,
completes the education of Miller,
1430
01:38:00,375 --> 01:38:01,667
- -I always think.
- Yeah, yeah.
1431
01:38:01,793 --> 01:38:03,961
It is not for you to decide
what happens here.
1432
01:38:15,723 --> 01:38:17,892
I love that look. It's like,
1433
01:38:22,814 --> 01:38:24,732
"It's done."
1434
01:38:27,819 --> 01:38:30,405
Get out of here, Freddy. Go home.
1435
01:38:31,489 --> 01:38:35,827
And you slightly amended
your performance in that line,
1436
01:38:35,952 --> 01:38:40,581
and I think it gave it a little more humanity.
I thought it was a good call of yours, that.
1437
01:38:48,256 --> 01:38:50,800
It was a great moment.
1438
01:38:57,849 --> 01:39:00,935
The quest for the truth.
The quest for the man.
1439
01:39:01,978 --> 01:39:05,189
You fail him, don't you?
But you do get the truth.
1440
01:39:10,695 --> 01:39:12,447
And that's the...
1441
01:39:13,364 --> 01:39:19,036
In a way,
I wanted that to prefigure what happened.
1442
01:39:20,955 --> 01:39:22,957
The long war of attrition
1443
01:39:25,376 --> 01:39:30,047
that was fought to try and stabilize Iraq.
1444
01:39:34,552 --> 01:39:38,806
But along the way, for all of that,
1445
01:39:41,225 --> 01:39:43,144
the truth has been told.
1446
01:39:58,075 --> 01:40:01,662
Tricky issue here,
in terms of finishing this film.
1447
01:40:01,746 --> 01:40:05,917
I mean, there always are
in these sorts of thrillers, aren't there?
1448
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:08,085
How you pay characters off.
1449
01:40:08,211 --> 01:40:10,671
Who's gonna kill who
in exactly what sequence,
1450
01:40:10,755 --> 01:40:15,676
and what does that mean?
And small changes can mean everything.
1451
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:17,428
We never wanted
1452
01:40:19,889 --> 01:40:22,433
Briggs, and we've actually
not mentioned that.
1453
01:40:23,434 --> 01:40:27,522
At the maximum moment,
when you've tackled Briggs,
1454
01:40:27,605 --> 01:40:29,440
- Briggs could kill you.
- Right.
1455
01:40:29,524 --> 01:40:32,193
-But he does not, because...
Exactly.
1456
01:40:32,276 --> 01:40:34,490
...an American soldier
would not kill an American soldier.
1457
01:40:34,570 --> 01:40:35,613
That's right.
1458
01:40:35,696 --> 01:40:39,450
This is not one of those sorts of movies.
That's a code that he couldn't break.
1459
01:40:39,575 --> 01:40:43,079
He's come to get Al Rawi.
You're not the point.
1460
01:40:45,957 --> 01:40:49,627
In a way, that choice of his
is actually what causes him to die.
1461
01:40:49,710 --> 01:40:50,962
Right.
1462
01:40:51,087 --> 01:40:53,798
You don't kill him, he doesn't kill you.
1463
01:40:55,049 --> 01:40:57,218
And we debated that endlessly.
1464
01:40:57,301 --> 01:41:00,304
There was a version of this film where
you could've gone man-to-man with him
1465
01:41:00,429 --> 01:41:02,974
or he could've gone man-to-man with you.
1466
01:41:03,057 --> 01:41:06,811
You're having to work
those sorts of resolution issues out.
1467
01:41:06,894 --> 01:41:08,232
And there's another big problem here,
1468
01:41:08,312 --> 01:41:11,983
which is, a film like this demands
you confront the bad guy.
1469
01:41:12,108 --> 01:41:13,150
Right.
1470
01:41:14,777 --> 01:41:17,200
But you don't actually have any
cards in your locker at this point,
1471
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:19,657
'cause Al Rawi's dead,
so you can't bring him down.
1472
01:41:19,782 --> 01:41:21,867
Which is what he tells me.
1473
01:41:21,951 --> 01:41:24,161
- But it's a great scene.
- Yeah.
1474
01:41:24,245 --> 01:41:26,205
It's my favorite scene.
1475
01:41:26,289 --> 01:41:28,749
Yeah, I like it, too. I just remember just...
1476
01:41:28,833 --> 01:41:30,671
This was kind of
towards the end of the schedule,
1477
01:41:30,751 --> 01:41:34,380
and I remember thinking about
all those guys and the tours they served
1478
01:41:38,050 --> 01:41:40,928
and the weapons weren't there, you know?
1479
01:41:43,347 --> 01:41:46,809
And some of them... It's just...
1480
01:41:48,227 --> 01:41:54,775
To wear that uniform
and play that moment was... I felt very...
1481
01:41:56,569 --> 01:41:58,362
Full of responsibility, I think, there.
1482
01:41:58,446 --> 01:42:00,239
- In a good way or...
- In a good way, yeah.
1483
01:42:00,323 --> 01:42:01,907
I mean, I wanted to do that.
1484
01:42:03,951 --> 01:42:08,164
Like most people, I was, I think,
a little pissed off about the whole thing.
1485
01:42:08,247 --> 01:42:10,374
- More than a little bit.
- Yeah.
1486
01:42:10,458 --> 01:42:14,378
And what they're saying in the scene,
by the end of the scene...
1487
01:42:16,422 --> 01:42:19,383
Yeah, he's pissed off. He's furious.
People have died,
1488
01:42:20,926 --> 01:42:22,803
and the reasons matter.
1489
01:42:23,346 --> 01:42:25,139
- The reasons matter.
- Yeah, no, 1...
1490
01:42:25,222 --> 01:42:31,103
I agree, and I think what's interesting is
it's the moment when the two processes,
1491
01:42:31,187 --> 01:42:36,233
the process of creating
a fictional genre-thriller
1492
01:42:37,151 --> 01:42:41,072
perfectly align up with the real world.
1493
01:42:42,073 --> 01:42:47,036
And he perfectly expresses there,
Poundstone,
1494
01:42:47,662 --> 01:42:50,915
the basic view, which is
that the ends justified the means.
1495
01:42:50,998 --> 01:42:55,628
It doesn't matter how we got there,
it was a necessary thing to do,
1496
01:42:56,629 --> 01:42:58,381
and we won.
1497
01:42:59,632 --> 01:43:01,676
But the point is, if you're...
1498
01:43:01,759 --> 01:43:04,470
As we found
in dealing with a lot of those soldiers,
1499
01:43:06,347 --> 01:43:09,892
that it doesn't quite feel that way
if you're the guy asked to go and shoot
1500
01:43:09,975 --> 01:43:11,686
- or be shot.
- Right.
1501
01:43:12,311 --> 01:43:16,691
"It's one thing to be told, " We've gotta
do this because of X ' 'Y' and 'Z.
1502
01:43:16,774 --> 01:43:21,487
It's another thing to be told,
"It's all about WMD," and they're not there.
1503
01:43:23,531 --> 01:43:27,868
And in any case, as this film shows,
then it all went wrong.
1504
01:43:34,834 --> 01:43:37,211
But I was always very...
1505
01:43:37,294 --> 01:43:40,131
Well, we've had this discussion many times,
haven't we?
1506
01:43:40,214 --> 01:43:43,592
You can't let a film
1507
01:43:44,885 --> 01:43:47,763
end on a downer.
1 never felt like this film should,
1508
01:43:47,847 --> 01:43:50,933
or any film, actually, that I've ever made,
end on a downer.
1509
01:43:52,059 --> 01:43:56,063
The truth is, in those five or six years
since these events,
1510
01:44:02,194 --> 01:44:07,158
the truth has come out. And it's come out,
as this scene really embodies,
1511
01:44:07,700 --> 01:44:13,205
because insiders like Miller,
and there are many, many of them,
1512
01:44:13,289 --> 01:44:20,045
have, over the past five or six years,
interacted with a press that has, in a sense,
1513
01:44:20,129 --> 01:44:25,217
redeemed its problems prior to 2003.
1514
01:44:26,218 --> 01:44:29,346
That's why all those publications are there,
1515
01:44:29,430 --> 01:44:33,726
because they've all played
a very pronounced role
1516
01:44:35,478 --> 01:44:39,648
in exploring what really happened
and the mistakes that were made.
1517
01:44:39,732 --> 01:44:43,027
And in that process,
you heal and move on, you know?
1518
01:44:44,028 --> 01:44:46,155
- And that's redeeming, I think.
- Yeah.
1519
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:54,747
That's kind of the note
I think you want to strike at the end.
1520
01:44:58,959 --> 01:45:01,173
- It was a lot of work, though, wasn't it?
- Oh, God, yes.
1521
01:45:01,253 --> 01:45:03,088
- -Hard movie.
- That was a tough one.
1522
01:45:03,881 --> 01:45:06,008
- But I'm very proud of it.
- Me, too.
1523
01:45:06,091 --> 01:45:08,594
And of everybody who worked on it.
1524
01:45:09,470 --> 01:45:10,888
Particularly you, my man.
1525
01:45:10,971 --> 01:45:14,141
That was a hell of a burden
you had to take there.
1526
01:45:15,518 --> 01:45:17,144
No, man, that was a...
1527
01:45:19,271 --> 01:45:20,940
- That was a tough one.
- Yeah.
1528
01:45:22,191 --> 01:45:24,777
Well directed, man. Very, very well directed.
1529
01:45:24,860 --> 01:45:26,111
- Again.
- There was a lot of...
1530
01:45:26,195 --> 01:45:29,240
The things you're never supposed to say
in these things, huh?
1531
01:45:29,323 --> 01:45:31,579
The little things where you go,
"Well, that didn't quite work."
1532
01:45:31,659 --> 01:45:33,289
- -You know what I mean? Like...
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1533
01:45:33,369 --> 01:45:34,623
Like when you were put in that car.
1534
01:45:34,703 --> 01:45:36,747
I always look at that and I think,
"Oh, my God.
1535
01:45:36,831 --> 01:45:39,333
"I under-covered that."
And we were short of time.
1536
01:45:39,416 --> 01:45:42,002
It was a lot of ragged pieces.
1537
01:45:42,086 --> 01:45:44,129
But in the end,
1538
01:45:48,425 --> 01:45:52,721
we, I, you and I, we wanted to make a film
1539
01:45:54,098 --> 01:45:57,601
set in that world
that people would actually go and see.
1540
01:45:57,685 --> 01:45:58,936
That was it, really, wasn't it?
1541
01:45:59,019 --> 01:46:01,856
- Definitely.
- You know what I mean?
1542
01:46:01,939 --> 01:46:05,025
There have been lots and lots
of wonderful, wonderful films
1543
01:46:06,151 --> 01:46:07,528
about Iraq...
1544
01:46:08,779 --> 01:46:11,740
Tell you one thing I do think.
It's very easy...
1545
01:46:11,824 --> 01:46:14,702
It's often said, "Iraq films,
they don't work at the box office,"
1546
01:46:14,785 --> 01:46:16,745
as if that suddenly dismisses them all.
1547
01:46:16,829 --> 01:46:21,625
I mean, the truth is, as an industry, I think...
I mean, it's across the board.
1548
01:46:21,709 --> 01:46:25,212
Our industry, Hollywood,
whatever you want to call it,
1549
01:46:25,296 --> 01:46:26,801
I think stepped up to the plate pretty well.
1550
01:46:26,881 --> 01:46:29,049
There've been a lot of movies
made about Iraq,
1551
01:46:29,133 --> 01:46:34,138
and some of them have not worked so well
at the box office,
1552
01:46:34,221 --> 01:46:36,473
but as an experience,
1553
01:46:38,434 --> 01:46:40,394
the movie industry
has tried to engage with it.
1554
01:46:40,477 --> 01:46:43,355
It's a huge issue that's driven our world,
1555
01:46:43,439 --> 01:46:47,484
and there've been lots and lots
of different sorts of movies made.
1556
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:53,991
And our bit of it was
to try and make one that could,
1557
01:46:54,074 --> 01:46:59,163
in our type of story
and in our choice of how we told the story,
1558
01:46:59,246 --> 01:47:01,957
that we could actually try
and get a bigger audience
1559
01:47:02,041 --> 01:47:05,920
to come and feel rewarded by it.
And I think...
1560
01:47:07,755 --> 01:47:11,342
I think when I'm hanging up my boots
at this game,
1561
01:47:12,009 --> 01:47:14,011
I should be pretty proud of that.
1562
01:47:15,012 --> 01:47:16,680
Absolutely. Yeah.
1563
01:47:16,764 --> 01:47:20,225
Proud of the fact of it
and hopefully proud of the reality of it.
1564
01:47:20,309 --> 01:47:22,353
I hope people do go see it.
1565
01:47:22,686 --> 01:47:25,189
So, Bourne IV in Afghanistan?
1566
01:47:28,525 --> 01:47:31,236
I'll tell you what.
If people aren't going to see it,
1567
01:47:31,320 --> 01:47:34,281
we'll just take it back
and then we'll re-title it.
1568
01:47:36,075 --> 01:47:38,827
Bourne in Baghdad. Put it out.
1569
01:47:39,244 --> 01:47:43,791
- I think they've already got that title covered.
- Then we can keep working.
1570
01:47:45,334 --> 01:47:48,003
Well, well done, man. Just a terrific job.
1571
01:47:48,087 --> 01:47:50,756
- Terrific job, I'm really proud of it.
- Well done, yeah.
1572
01:47:50,839 --> 01:47:55,260
We made the movie we wanted to make,
and I hope it lasts.
1573
01:47:55,594 --> 01:47:58,430
- And well done to the studio.
- Definitely. Definitely.
1574
01:47:58,555 --> 01:48:02,393
- And Working Title. Both of them.
- Tough pill to swallow.
1575
01:48:03,602 --> 01:48:05,980
We'll get your money back, guys.
1576
01:48:06,063 --> 01:48:07,648
- We hope.
- We really will.