1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,907 I know telling this story does not make me look good 2 00:00:08,931 --> 00:00:15,769 because I did do really messed up things, 3 00:00:15,793 --> 00:00:19,217 but in telling it, at least I can show 4 00:00:19,241 --> 00:00:22,976 this isn't something that I sought after. 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,182 The only way I'm actually able to talk about about it 6 00:00:25,206 --> 00:00:27,389 is not because I'm better. 7 00:00:27,413 --> 00:00:31,769 It's because I'm still broken. 8 00:00:31,793 --> 00:00:36,700 I'm relatively cut off from any emotional engagement. 9 00:00:36,724 --> 00:00:38,148 I don't feel overly happy. 10 00:00:38,172 --> 00:00:40,355 I never feel overly sad, 11 00:00:40,379 --> 00:00:42,148 but it does make it easier to tell the story 12 00:00:42,172 --> 00:00:46,310 and get my side of this out there. 13 00:00:52,862 --> 00:00:54,769 If we're to believe you, 14 00:00:54,793 --> 00:00:56,586 why didn't you call the cops when you could? 15 00:01:00,724 --> 00:01:04,319 Well, honestly I thought my mother would find out 16 00:01:04,343 --> 00:01:05,700 before the cops found her, 17 00:01:05,724 --> 00:01:08,872 and she had let me know in no uncertain terms 18 00:01:08,896 --> 00:01:13,965 that if I had told, she would kill me. 19 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:21,113 This to me is the face of my torturer. 20 00:01:21,137 --> 00:01:25,527 The abuse didn't give her the sense of control anymore, 21 00:01:25,551 --> 00:01:28,793 so murder was the next step. 22 00:02:04,586 --> 00:02:07,562 - -Captions by vitac... - www.Vitac.Com 23 00:02:07,586 --> 00:02:10,769 captions paid for by discovery communications 24 00:02:10,793 --> 00:02:15,941 I had a total of five siblings, two of which were half-siblings. 25 00:02:15,965 --> 00:02:20,044 That would be my older brother and sister, Howard and Sheila, 26 00:02:20,068 --> 00:02:24,389 and then direct siblings, sister suesan, 27 00:02:24,413 --> 00:02:28,251 younger brother Robert, and sister Terry. 28 00:02:28,275 --> 00:02:29,596 She ruined six of us. 29 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:33,044 There's not one kid that she birthed into this world 30 00:02:33,068 --> 00:02:36,872 that isn't broken or dead. 31 00:02:36,896 --> 00:02:39,527 Hey, guys, go outside. 32 00:02:39,551 --> 00:02:40,872 Go outside and play. Come on. 33 00:02:40,896 --> 00:02:43,355 She would tell us on a regular basis 34 00:02:43,379 --> 00:02:47,148 that she didn't want any one of us, 35 00:02:47,172 --> 00:02:48,838 so now that she's stuck with us, 36 00:02:48,862 --> 00:02:51,137 she's going to make us do what she wants. 37 00:02:54,068 --> 00:02:56,320 Be back before it's dark. 38 00:02:56,344 --> 00:02:59,941 The extreme abuses didn't happen until my biological father 39 00:02:59,965 --> 00:03:02,355 had started another family. 40 00:03:02,379 --> 00:03:05,379 He was never actually present in our lives. 41 00:03:07,551 --> 00:03:10,044 Since we had no other place to go, 42 00:03:10,068 --> 00:03:12,562 we had no contact with our dad, 43 00:03:12,586 --> 00:03:17,103 we really tried to be the kids that she was expecting us to be. 44 00:03:22,827 --> 00:03:25,527 This is a picture of me in grade school. 45 00:03:25,551 --> 00:03:30,596 I don't have any actual color photographs of my sisters, 46 00:03:30,620 --> 00:03:31,976 either one. 47 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,941 There's no family picnic photos. 48 00:03:34,965 --> 00:03:36,665 There's nothing like that. 49 00:03:36,689 --> 00:03:38,320 Looking back, 50 00:03:38,344 --> 00:03:40,458 I wish that somebody would have kidnapped me. 51 00:03:40,482 --> 00:03:43,000 I was so unprepared for what was coming. 52 00:03:46,068 --> 00:03:48,620 My life was about to change dramatically. 53 00:04:07,275 --> 00:04:11,148 The beatings were part of growing up. 54 00:04:11,172 --> 00:04:13,424 One one occasion we had been sent to our room 55 00:04:13,448 --> 00:04:14,769 in the middle of the day. 56 00:04:14,793 --> 00:04:16,838 She didn't want to hear us or see us. 57 00:04:16,862 --> 00:04:18,113 We weren't allowed to talk. 58 00:04:18,137 --> 00:04:19,596 We had to stay on our own beds. 59 00:04:19,620 --> 00:04:23,044 Alls I was doing was silently laying on my bed, 60 00:04:23,068 --> 00:04:25,251 and Robert was on his. 61 00:04:25,275 --> 00:04:29,000 She burst into mine and my brother's room. 62 00:04:34,068 --> 00:04:36,148 She was berating us. 63 00:04:36,172 --> 00:04:40,838 Are you laughing at me? Don't play dumb with me. 64 00:04:40,862 --> 00:04:43,113 We didn't say anything. 65 00:04:43,137 --> 00:04:45,424 I remember looking at Robert and Robert is, 66 00:04:45,448 --> 00:04:46,769 like, you know, shrugging. 67 00:04:46,793 --> 00:04:49,493 He doesn't know what's going on, and she goes, 68 00:04:49,517 --> 00:04:52,493 "stop laughing at me." 69 00:04:52,517 --> 00:04:55,700 Everything I do for you, and you were up here talking about me. 70 00:04:55,724 --> 00:04:57,286 Robert and I looked at each other. 71 00:04:57,310 --> 00:04:58,700 We were not laughing. 72 00:04:58,724 --> 00:05:03,355 I know that you're up here laughing at me. 73 00:05:03,379 --> 00:05:06,907 Mom, I swear we were being quiet. 74 00:05:06,931 --> 00:05:10,872 And she looked at me and said, "your eyes were laughing at me." 75 00:05:10,896 --> 00:05:14,355 What did I tell you about lying? 76 00:05:14,379 --> 00:05:18,068 Kids, come hold your brother down. 77 00:05:20,068 --> 00:05:23,148 She made Robert, Sheila, suesan, all grab me. 78 00:05:23,172 --> 00:05:25,355 No. Stop. 79 00:05:25,379 --> 00:05:27,527 At one point or another all of the siblings 80 00:05:27,551 --> 00:05:31,320 were forced to hold down somebody, 81 00:05:31,344 --> 00:05:34,976 and if you lost your grip or if you let go 82 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,838 or whatnot, you were immediately beat. 83 00:05:38,862 --> 00:05:43,217 She used what she called the board of education. 84 00:05:43,241 --> 00:05:46,320 It was a piece of wood from a construction site 85 00:05:46,344 --> 00:05:49,148 that she had a wrapped a handle up with electrical tape 86 00:05:49,172 --> 00:05:51,034 so she wouldn't lose her grip on it. 87 00:05:53,103 --> 00:05:56,286 You know this is what you get. 88 00:05:56,310 --> 00:05:58,941 Whenever my mother would beat any of us, 89 00:05:58,965 --> 00:06:01,941 she would always say it was because she loved us. 90 00:06:01,965 --> 00:06:05,113 If she didn't love us, she wouldn't even bother. 91 00:06:05,137 --> 00:06:07,148 At a certain point, you internalize this. 92 00:06:07,172 --> 00:06:08,665 This is what love is. 93 00:06:08,689 --> 00:06:11,413 Love is control and beating. 94 00:06:17,965 --> 00:06:22,182 Once she was satisfied that I wasn't laughing anymore, 95 00:06:22,206 --> 00:06:24,148 and once I started to cry, she goes, 96 00:06:24,172 --> 00:06:26,965 "there, now you're not laughing at me. 97 00:06:30,103 --> 00:06:31,389 You stay on that bed. 98 00:06:31,413 --> 00:06:32,562 That's where your staying for the rest of the night," 99 00:06:32,586 --> 00:06:35,044 and she closed the door. 100 00:06:35,068 --> 00:06:37,665 Everybody, back to your rooms. 101 00:06:37,689 --> 00:06:39,424 And we didn't have any outside exposure. 102 00:06:39,448 --> 00:06:41,493 We could never go to a kid's house after school, 103 00:06:41,517 --> 00:06:44,665 so we didn't actually see their family dynamics. 104 00:06:44,689 --> 00:06:46,113 There wasn't any questioning of it. 105 00:06:46,137 --> 00:06:49,734 This is what moms do. 106 00:06:49,758 --> 00:06:53,344 We just thought everybody was the same as us. 107 00:07:02,551 --> 00:07:05,562 She started getting more paranoid. 108 00:07:05,586 --> 00:07:09,137 In her mind we were possessed, demon possession. 109 00:07:13,413 --> 00:07:17,769 I recall one evening where we were in bed. 110 00:07:17,793 --> 00:07:19,700 We were all asleep. 111 00:07:19,724 --> 00:07:21,286 She got us all up out of bed 112 00:07:21,310 --> 00:07:24,458 because in her mind we had been faking asleep. 113 00:07:24,482 --> 00:07:27,320 Keep moving, in the living room. You know the drill. Go. 114 00:07:27,344 --> 00:07:30,596 She lined us up and had us sit down facing away from her. 115 00:07:30,620 --> 00:07:31,941 She didn't want to see us. 116 00:07:31,965 --> 00:07:33,562 She didn't want us to look at her. 117 00:07:33,586 --> 00:07:36,010 Everybody on the floor. 118 00:07:36,034 --> 00:07:37,941 We weren't allowed to fall asleep. 119 00:07:37,965 --> 00:07:41,010 We weren't allowed to speak, and we had to sit there 120 00:07:41,034 --> 00:07:43,010 all night facing away from her. 121 00:07:43,034 --> 00:07:45,907 Robert, stay awake. 122 00:07:45,931 --> 00:07:48,113 If somebody started to fall asleep, 123 00:07:48,137 --> 00:07:51,251 if their head started to Bob, they got it with the board. 124 00:07:51,275 --> 00:07:54,275 If somebody tried to move their leg, they got hit. 125 00:07:57,620 --> 00:08:00,700 We had to sit there like statues, 126 00:08:00,724 --> 00:08:03,631 sitting absolutely still for 127 00:08:03,655 --> 00:08:06,286 I can't even tell you how many hours. 128 00:08:06,310 --> 00:08:08,872 When the sun came up, she says, 129 00:08:08,896 --> 00:08:10,907 "okay, you guys can get up now." 130 00:08:10,931 --> 00:08:14,182 The demons had left us. 131 00:08:14,206 --> 00:08:17,665 All right. Go upstairs. 132 00:08:17,689 --> 00:08:20,838 We just chalked it up to, mom is weird. 133 00:08:20,862 --> 00:08:24,655 You know, this was just what she was becoming. 134 00:08:34,275 --> 00:08:36,217 My mom used to bar hop, and that's where 135 00:08:36,241 --> 00:08:40,871 she would meet guys and what not and try to have relationships. 136 00:08:40,895 --> 00:08:43,102 She would always come home drunk. 137 00:08:46,724 --> 00:08:48,976 So one night after my mom had been out, 138 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,413 she was very excited about showing us something. 139 00:08:55,931 --> 00:08:58,631 I want to show you guys something. 140 00:08:58,655 --> 00:09:00,148 You're going to love this. 141 00:09:00,172 --> 00:09:03,665 And she tells us a story about somebody that was at this bar 142 00:09:03,689 --> 00:09:07,355 that she was at, and rather than throwing darts 143 00:09:07,379 --> 00:09:09,596 he breaks out a set of throwing knives, 144 00:09:09,620 --> 00:09:12,206 and, she's like, "look. I can throw knives." 145 00:09:16,034 --> 00:09:17,562 She started having us individually 146 00:09:17,586 --> 00:09:18,838 stand in front of her 147 00:09:18,862 --> 00:09:20,907 and she would show how good she was at it 148 00:09:20,931 --> 00:09:24,724 by throwing the knives at us and missing us. 149 00:09:28,413 --> 00:09:30,493 We got scared at that point. 150 00:09:30,517 --> 00:09:33,424 William. 151 00:09:33,448 --> 00:09:35,724 She told me to stand against the wall. 152 00:09:38,241 --> 00:09:39,665 And I closed my eyes. 153 00:09:39,689 --> 00:09:41,448 I didn't want to se it. 154 00:09:47,413 --> 00:09:50,527 And it missed me, and I got out of there, 155 00:09:50,551 --> 00:09:53,700 but when it was Sheila's turn, 156 00:09:53,724 --> 00:09:58,734 she threw a knife... 157 00:09:58,758 --> 00:10:00,689 And stabbed Sheila. 158 00:10:12,482 --> 00:10:14,172 Sheila, you're next. 159 00:10:16,137 --> 00:10:18,665 When it was Sheila's turn, 160 00:10:18,689 --> 00:10:20,976 she threw a knife... 161 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,527 And stabbed Sheila. 162 00:10:23,551 --> 00:10:25,562 The knife didn't actually stay in her. 163 00:10:25,586 --> 00:10:28,113 It fell out, and so she started bleeding immediately, 164 00:10:28,137 --> 00:10:30,631 and my mom immediately got angry at Sheila, 165 00:10:30,655 --> 00:10:32,596 saying, "she moved. She did that on purpose. 166 00:10:32,620 --> 00:10:35,596 You did that on purpose to make me look bad." 167 00:10:35,620 --> 00:10:37,596 She moved. It's her own fault. 168 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:40,596 There was never an, "I'm sorry," from my mother. 169 00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:42,079 I don't think my mom had remorse. 170 00:10:42,103 --> 00:10:43,769 I don't think she was empathetic at all. 171 00:10:43,793 --> 00:10:45,941 Come here. 172 00:10:45,965 --> 00:10:47,700 She did close the wound, butterfly bandage, 173 00:10:47,724 --> 00:10:50,217 disinfectant and all of that, and that was as close as you 174 00:10:50,241 --> 00:10:53,286 got to a motherly moment, but that was it. 175 00:10:53,310 --> 00:10:55,700 It was always our fault, not hers, 176 00:10:55,724 --> 00:10:57,355 and when she was done with us, 177 00:10:57,379 --> 00:11:01,413 we just ended up going to bed and not talking about it again. 178 00:11:14,620 --> 00:11:16,389 One morning, suesan ran away 179 00:11:16,413 --> 00:11:19,286 while I was doing my paper route. 180 00:11:19,310 --> 00:11:23,355 I returned from my paper route, and my mom asked me, 181 00:11:23,379 --> 00:11:24,872 "where's suesan?" 182 00:11:24,896 --> 00:11:26,976 And I was like, "I don't know. She was here when I left." 183 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,079 Is your sister with you? No. 184 00:11:30,103 --> 00:11:31,631 None of us knew where she was, 185 00:11:31,655 --> 00:11:34,596 and my mom had a panicked moment. 186 00:11:34,620 --> 00:11:37,251 My sister suesan was very bright. 187 00:11:37,275 --> 00:11:40,286 Suesan knew something that the rest of us didn't. 188 00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:42,941 This can't be normal. 189 00:11:42,965 --> 00:11:47,424 There's a real problem here, and that scared my mom 190 00:11:47,448 --> 00:11:49,896 because she didn't know what suesan was going to do. 191 00:12:03,655 --> 00:12:07,976 Hello. May we come in? 192 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,734 Child protective services showed up on our doorstep 193 00:12:09,758 --> 00:12:11,700 one day after suesan had run away. 194 00:12:11,724 --> 00:12:15,389 She told them about the abusive situation we were in. 195 00:12:15,413 --> 00:12:16,976 They just said all of us were going to have to do 196 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,596 individual interviews, 197 00:12:18,620 --> 00:12:22,493 but my mom was in the room the entire time, 198 00:12:22,517 --> 00:12:23,665 and we knew what that meant. 199 00:12:23,689 --> 00:12:25,458 Hi. Hello. 200 00:12:25,482 --> 00:12:26,872 William? Yes. 201 00:12:26,896 --> 00:12:28,286 Nice to meet you, William. 202 00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:32,976 If you didn't say anything that she told you to say, 203 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,458 you were going to get beat again. 204 00:12:35,482 --> 00:12:39,596 So, William, has your mother ever hurt you? 205 00:12:39,620 --> 00:12:43,665 They asked us questions that we could not answer. 206 00:12:43,689 --> 00:12:45,976 "Does your mom beat you?" 207 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,148 And you look immediately at your mom, 208 00:12:48,172 --> 00:12:49,872 and she's standing there shaking her head no, 209 00:12:49,896 --> 00:12:52,251 you're going to answer no. 210 00:12:52,275 --> 00:12:54,527 No. 211 00:12:54,551 --> 00:12:57,527 No? 212 00:12:57,551 --> 00:13:01,655 Have you ever seen your mother hurt your brothers or sisters? 213 00:13:04,827 --> 00:13:06,148 No, ma'am. 214 00:13:06,172 --> 00:13:08,010 And at the end of this investigation 215 00:13:08,034 --> 00:13:11,044 they made the conclusion that suesan was just a runaway 216 00:13:11,068 --> 00:13:12,941 because she doesn't like being at home anymore, 217 00:13:12,965 --> 00:13:15,379 so they sent her home. 218 00:13:21,310 --> 00:13:25,044 It's a harsh realization, but we failed her, 219 00:13:25,068 --> 00:13:26,734 all of us as kids. 220 00:13:26,758 --> 00:13:29,389 We were scared, and we didn't know any better. 221 00:13:29,413 --> 00:13:30,872 She tried to do something, 222 00:13:30,896 --> 00:13:36,907 and we couldn't stand shoulder to shoulder and help her. 223 00:13:36,931 --> 00:13:38,665 I think that it would have been very different 224 00:13:38,689 --> 00:13:41,527 if suesan had just ran away and stayed gone, 225 00:13:41,551 --> 00:13:42,803 but it didn't go that direction. 226 00:13:42,827 --> 00:13:45,448 - Alright. Bye-bye. - Bye. 227 00:13:50,758 --> 00:13:52,965 You, come with me. 228 00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:59,355 Suesan was immediately handcuffed to a table. 229 00:13:59,379 --> 00:14:02,976 Don't tell people things, and don't leave this house. 230 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,734 You do not go and talk to... Give me your hand. 231 00:14:05,758 --> 00:14:06,769 Put it up here. 232 00:14:06,793 --> 00:14:09,217 She had socks over her hands, 233 00:14:09,241 --> 00:14:13,389 and it reduced marks, and that's where she stayed 234 00:14:13,413 --> 00:14:15,872 for probably the next... 235 00:14:15,896 --> 00:14:17,586 Couple of years. 236 00:14:21,965 --> 00:14:23,389 She was gagged. 237 00:14:23,413 --> 00:14:29,458 It was horrible, and it was under very heavy restrictions 238 00:14:29,482 --> 00:14:31,862 that the gag ever came out. 239 00:14:34,655 --> 00:14:36,976 She force-fed suesan. 240 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,010 If suesan was full, she made her eat more. 241 00:14:40,034 --> 00:14:43,148 If she threw up, she made her eat that. 242 00:14:43,172 --> 00:14:46,493 To see her handcuffed under the table 243 00:14:46,517 --> 00:14:49,803 was a constant reminder of the consequences. 244 00:14:49,827 --> 00:14:53,079 This is what happened when you go against our mom. 245 00:14:53,103 --> 00:14:57,148 Let this be a lesson to all of you. 246 00:14:57,172 --> 00:14:58,631 Running away didn't cross my mind 247 00:14:58,655 --> 00:15:02,769 because I had no place to go. 248 00:15:02,793 --> 00:15:06,803 The system had already failed, so I couldn't go to the system. 249 00:15:06,827 --> 00:15:10,941 Watching this escalation 100% reinforced the strategy 250 00:15:10,965 --> 00:15:14,413 for me to not make waves. 251 00:15:30,034 --> 00:15:31,976 She went to the school and told them that we were moving. 252 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,320 Never went to school again, 253 00:15:33,344 --> 00:15:35,769 but she wanted more money coming into the household, 254 00:15:35,793 --> 00:15:38,838 so at one point I got a job at a movie theater. 255 00:15:38,862 --> 00:15:43,769 I would have to walk or ride a bike to and from work, 256 00:15:43,793 --> 00:15:48,655 and she would drive past me to make sure I was going to work. 257 00:15:51,172 --> 00:15:54,079 I would see her car drive by me several times. 258 00:15:54,103 --> 00:15:56,182 She would never stop. 259 00:15:56,206 --> 00:15:58,700 She would never pick me up and drive me to work, 260 00:15:58,724 --> 00:16:02,044 but she would make sure that I went straight there. 261 00:16:02,068 --> 00:16:04,217 My mother under no uncertain terms 262 00:16:04,241 --> 00:16:09,217 was absolutely stalking me and making sure 263 00:16:09,241 --> 00:16:12,562 I did what I was supposed to be doing at any given time. 264 00:16:12,586 --> 00:16:16,596 She escalated her control over me by doing these things. 265 00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:18,527 I'm thinking, "this is just my life. 266 00:16:18,551 --> 00:16:19,596 This is the way it's going to be." 267 00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:21,113 If she would have found me deviating, 268 00:16:21,137 --> 00:16:24,000 I have no idea what would have happened. 269 00:16:33,103 --> 00:16:35,976 She hands Terry, who is the youngest, 270 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,838 a .22 pistol. 271 00:16:41,862 --> 00:16:42,839 Terry is freaked. 272 00:16:42,863 --> 00:16:44,631 She's a kid. 273 00:16:44,655 --> 00:16:46,068 The gun goes off. 274 00:17:01,655 --> 00:17:03,700 This house was the whole world. 275 00:17:03,724 --> 00:17:06,181 This is where torture started. 276 00:17:06,205 --> 00:17:09,251 This is where everything disintegrated in our lives. 277 00:17:09,275 --> 00:17:14,389 This is where suesan was handcuffed to a table. 278 00:17:14,413 --> 00:17:18,631 Suesan had already been under the table for quite a while. 279 00:17:18,655 --> 00:17:23,872 By that time we were so brainwashed, controlled, 280 00:17:23,896 --> 00:17:26,241 we didn't know that anybody else was living any different. 281 00:17:31,896 --> 00:17:35,113 Suesan was starting to gain pressure sores, 282 00:17:35,137 --> 00:17:39,241 so she would be allowed to be uncuffed for a period of time. 283 00:17:43,379 --> 00:17:45,769 Knock it off. 284 00:17:45,793 --> 00:17:48,355 But every night, she was back under the table, 285 00:17:48,379 --> 00:17:53,907 and she was only let go when my mother allowed her to be. 286 00:17:53,931 --> 00:17:56,217 You know the rules. 287 00:17:56,241 --> 00:18:02,044 She was completely and utterly without a moment's peace. 288 00:18:02,068 --> 00:18:03,793 This had to end. 289 00:18:12,379 --> 00:18:16,320 One morning, my mom just woke up in a horrible mood 290 00:18:16,344 --> 00:18:20,389 and literally was yelling and screaming 291 00:18:20,413 --> 00:18:24,596 about so many things simultaneously. 292 00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:26,734 Stop saying, "mom." 293 00:18:26,758 --> 00:18:29,976 We were being hit indiscriminately. 294 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,631 Suesan had been uncuffed 295 00:18:31,655 --> 00:18:34,769 and is taking this huge brunt of abuse. 296 00:18:34,793 --> 00:18:36,355 I'm sorry. 297 00:18:36,379 --> 00:18:40,251 At one point she hands Terry, who is the youngest, 298 00:18:40,275 --> 00:18:43,700 a .22 pistol. 299 00:18:43,724 --> 00:18:44,769 That's it. 300 00:18:44,793 --> 00:18:46,010 - No, mom. - Mom, please. 301 00:18:46,034 --> 00:18:49,044 Terry, hold this on your sister. 302 00:18:49,068 --> 00:18:51,872 And she tells her if she even moves, you shoot her. 303 00:18:51,896 --> 00:18:53,182 Terry is freaked. 304 00:18:53,206 --> 00:18:55,527 She's a kid holding a gun. 305 00:18:55,551 --> 00:18:58,010 William, come with me. 306 00:18:58,034 --> 00:19:00,424 And my mother takes me down the hall, 307 00:19:00,448 --> 00:19:03,551 and we start making oatmeal. 308 00:19:09,413 --> 00:19:13,217 I'm taking food down the hall to people. 309 00:19:13,241 --> 00:19:16,286 I have got bowls in my hand. 310 00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:18,493 The spoons fall over and clank, 311 00:19:18,517 --> 00:19:20,034 and when they clank... 312 00:19:21,310 --> 00:19:23,493 ...Terry jumped, 313 00:19:23,517 --> 00:19:25,758 and when she jumped the gun went off. 314 00:19:29,344 --> 00:19:32,424 She shot suesan. 315 00:19:32,448 --> 00:19:33,527 Suesan fell. 316 00:19:33,551 --> 00:19:34,803 She dropped the gun. 317 00:19:34,827 --> 00:19:37,596 What did you do? 318 00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:41,320 No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. 319 00:19:41,344 --> 00:19:44,803 She doesn't want the blood to get on the carpet. 320 00:19:44,827 --> 00:19:47,872 She's not as concerned with suesan. 321 00:19:47,896 --> 00:19:50,734 She's not concerned about Terry at all. 322 00:19:50,758 --> 00:19:52,734 She doesn't want blood on the carpet. 323 00:19:52,758 --> 00:19:56,079 Boys, carry your sister up to the bathtub. 324 00:19:56,103 --> 00:19:58,665 She makes Robert and me pick her up, 325 00:19:58,689 --> 00:20:03,113 take her into the bathroom and get her into the bathtub. 326 00:20:03,137 --> 00:20:05,493 She was not screaming or hollering. 327 00:20:05,517 --> 00:20:07,493 She was not, you know, writhing. 328 00:20:07,517 --> 00:20:11,010 She was out. 329 00:20:11,034 --> 00:20:13,941 The gunshot was low in the abdomen. 330 00:20:13,965 --> 00:20:16,286 We didn't know what exact condition she was in, 331 00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:18,286 but we knew she wasn't dead. 332 00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:19,907 My mother said, "everything is going to be fine. 333 00:20:19,931 --> 00:20:21,562 I know how to take care of this." 334 00:20:21,586 --> 00:20:25,286 She starts to deliver some form of first aid. 335 00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:28,562 She's not trying to remove the bullet. 336 00:20:28,586 --> 00:20:30,493 She didn't actually stitch anything up. 337 00:20:30,517 --> 00:20:34,769 She used a series of gauze, tape, butterfly bandages, 338 00:20:34,793 --> 00:20:37,793 that sort of stuff, to close the wound. 339 00:20:41,137 --> 00:20:43,182 I don't know if she gave her any pain relievers. 340 00:20:43,206 --> 00:20:45,596 I think that she was just disappointed that suesan 341 00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:47,872 was wounded and not killed. 342 00:20:47,896 --> 00:20:50,493 She's going to be fine. 343 00:20:50,517 --> 00:20:52,734 There was no thought about calling the police 344 00:20:52,758 --> 00:20:55,010 or calling an ambulance or calling anything else. 345 00:20:55,034 --> 00:20:59,493 We were just kids, and mom is going to handle it. 346 00:20:59,517 --> 00:21:01,700 She was in there for maybe a month. 347 00:21:01,724 --> 00:21:07,586 It was more or less like watching a horrible movie. 348 00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:21,734 It took a while for suesan to even recover to a certain extent 349 00:21:21,758 --> 00:21:23,148 and get out of the bathtub, 350 00:21:23,172 --> 00:21:25,907 but, my mother put her right back under the table. 351 00:21:25,931 --> 00:21:27,217 Okay? Handcuffed. 352 00:21:27,241 --> 00:21:29,286 Let me go. 353 00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:31,631 You did this to your self. 354 00:21:31,655 --> 00:21:33,389 Suesan could not take it anymore. 355 00:21:33,413 --> 00:21:38,596 She started to beg and plead on a regular basis. 356 00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:43,355 "I can't do this anymore. Let me just go. 357 00:21:43,379 --> 00:21:46,700 I won't go to the authorities. I will disappear forever." 358 00:21:46,724 --> 00:21:50,010 I promise. I'll disappear. 359 00:21:50,034 --> 00:21:52,907 You'll never see me again. 360 00:21:52,931 --> 00:21:54,631 And she tried doing this for an extended period, 361 00:21:54,655 --> 00:21:59,562 like, over a year where she was begging to get out. 362 00:21:59,586 --> 00:22:02,976 At some point she had said it enough to where my mother 363 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,079 actually started to entertain this idea. 364 00:22:05,103 --> 00:22:10,872 My mother actually said, "okay, but I got to take 365 00:22:10,896 --> 00:22:12,527 that bullet out of you. 366 00:22:12,551 --> 00:22:15,113 I'm not letting you leave with that bullet still in you." 367 00:22:15,137 --> 00:22:17,113 Mom, no! 368 00:22:17,137 --> 00:22:20,700 Please, mom, no. 369 00:22:20,724 --> 00:22:22,320 No! No! 370 00:22:22,344 --> 00:22:24,734 "That's evidence. I'm not letting that walk out of here." 371 00:22:24,758 --> 00:22:26,148 No! Mom, no! 372 00:22:26,172 --> 00:22:28,113 No, mom! 373 00:22:28,137 --> 00:22:29,793 Let me out! 374 00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:46,803 I can home from work to find suesan on the floor. 375 00:22:46,827 --> 00:22:48,079 She was out. 376 00:22:48,103 --> 00:22:52,424 She's got bandages on her. 377 00:22:52,448 --> 00:22:56,769 Terry was obviously shaken. 378 00:22:56,793 --> 00:22:59,103 Robert, he wasn't doing great, 379 00:23:00,931 --> 00:23:05,182 and, Terry tells me that mom had taken the bullet out of her. 380 00:23:05,206 --> 00:23:07,424 He had to cut suesie open. 381 00:23:07,448 --> 00:23:10,148 They used some sort of combination 382 00:23:10,172 --> 00:23:12,700 of alcohol and medication or whatnot to start the surgery, 383 00:23:12,724 --> 00:23:16,838 and she had possibly gone into some form of shock 384 00:23:16,862 --> 00:23:19,931 and passed out during this process. 385 00:23:27,517 --> 00:23:31,320 My mom comes out of the bathroom, and I looked at her, 386 00:23:31,344 --> 00:23:34,113 and she just simply says, "what?" As if to challenge me. 387 00:23:34,137 --> 00:23:36,700 "What do you have to say about this?" 388 00:23:36,724 --> 00:23:39,355 And I didn't say anything. 389 00:23:39,379 --> 00:23:41,044 I didn't say anything. 390 00:23:41,068 --> 00:23:42,803 She wanted to leave. 391 00:23:42,827 --> 00:23:45,217 This is what it's going to cost. 392 00:23:45,241 --> 00:23:48,458 There was no in-depth explanation, and she's like, 393 00:23:48,482 --> 00:23:49,700 "I've decided to let suesan go, 394 00:23:49,724 --> 00:23:52,596 but this is what we had to do to let her go. 395 00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:54,286 She'll be fine. She just needs a little time to heal up, 396 00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:55,596 and she'll be on her way." 397 00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:57,793 Clean this mess up. 398 00:24:07,275 --> 00:24:10,631 Weeks later, I came home from work again, 399 00:24:10,655 --> 00:24:13,286 and this time suesan wasn't on the floor. 400 00:24:13,310 --> 00:24:14,907 My mother immediately said, 401 00:24:14,931 --> 00:24:16,700 "we're going to drop suesan off," 402 00:24:16,724 --> 00:24:19,182 you know, "gather her stuff up." 403 00:24:19,206 --> 00:24:22,562 Take this stuff, and put it in the car. 404 00:24:22,586 --> 00:24:26,596 It was certain minimal personals, some clothing, 405 00:24:26,620 --> 00:24:31,493 things of this nature, and Robert and I went out, 406 00:24:31,517 --> 00:24:35,148 and we went to put them in the car. 407 00:24:35,172 --> 00:24:38,182 That's the first time I saw where suesan was. 408 00:24:38,206 --> 00:24:39,586 She was in the trunk of the car. 409 00:24:53,655 --> 00:24:56,010 So we gathered up the meager belongings that she had, 410 00:24:56,034 --> 00:24:58,413 and Robert and I take them outside, 411 00:25:02,758 --> 00:25:04,148 and that's the first time that I had seen 412 00:25:04,172 --> 00:25:07,872 that suesan had been moved into the trunk of the car. 413 00:25:07,896 --> 00:25:10,148 What happened? 414 00:25:10,172 --> 00:25:14,034 I was told that she was dead, that she had died on the floor. 415 00:25:16,793 --> 00:25:19,700 To be honest, I did not check. 416 00:25:19,724 --> 00:25:22,734 The only explanation from my mother was very dismissive. 417 00:25:22,758 --> 00:25:25,148 "This is what suesan wanted. 418 00:25:25,172 --> 00:25:27,976 We had to take that bullet out, so here we are." 419 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,665 Robert and I, we were scared. 420 00:25:30,689 --> 00:25:34,044 Come on, everybody. Get in the car. 421 00:25:34,068 --> 00:25:36,631 She said, "everybody, get in. We're going for a drive." 422 00:25:36,655 --> 00:25:39,044 Come on, now. 423 00:25:39,068 --> 00:25:40,562 There was no questions we just... 424 00:25:40,586 --> 00:25:42,103 We got in the car. 425 00:25:52,068 --> 00:25:55,079 We started driving to a wooded area, 426 00:25:55,103 --> 00:25:56,665 so we're in the car for a while, 427 00:25:56,689 --> 00:26:01,493 and nobody has said even a single word the entire time. 428 00:26:01,517 --> 00:26:02,631 It's dark. 429 00:26:02,655 --> 00:26:05,631 It's nighttime, and she finds a place 430 00:26:05,655 --> 00:26:08,103 that is slightly removed from the highway. 431 00:26:11,172 --> 00:26:13,527 She says, "okay, get everything out of the trunk." 432 00:26:13,551 --> 00:26:15,803 We moved the stuff out, and then we came back 433 00:26:15,827 --> 00:26:20,010 and put suesan down, and, Robert and I both thought 434 00:26:20,034 --> 00:26:22,493 we were just getting in and driving away. 435 00:26:22,517 --> 00:26:27,251 That's when my mom pulls out the gun. 436 00:26:27,275 --> 00:26:30,424 Pour gas on everything. 437 00:26:30,448 --> 00:26:35,631 Robert and I put gas on just the stuff. 438 00:26:35,655 --> 00:26:38,413 We didn't put any on suesan. 439 00:26:40,448 --> 00:26:43,241 She cocks the gun and says, "I said, 'on everything.'" 440 00:26:45,586 --> 00:26:49,493 I said, "everything." 441 00:26:49,517 --> 00:26:53,493 And it wasn't like we had a choice. 442 00:26:53,517 --> 00:26:55,079 I don't think she would have hesitated 443 00:26:55,103 --> 00:26:57,700 to shoot Robert or myself, 444 00:26:57,724 --> 00:27:01,493 and then she throws me that matches and says, 445 00:27:01,517 --> 00:27:03,758 "you light that." 446 00:27:06,655 --> 00:27:09,586 And she has got the gun on me. 447 00:27:13,793 --> 00:27:16,941 I feel that the reason why she made me do it 448 00:27:16,965 --> 00:27:19,734 is because she wanted me to blame. 449 00:27:19,758 --> 00:27:21,493 "You're the one who did it." 450 00:27:21,517 --> 00:27:24,976 I know she will shoot, 451 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,689 and so I've got to strike a match and drop it. 452 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,148 In my mind, she was already dead. 453 00:27:35,172 --> 00:27:37,872 I didn't light my living sister on fire 454 00:27:37,896 --> 00:27:40,241 she was dead. 455 00:27:44,206 --> 00:27:46,458 But that's the only solace that I can take from this, 456 00:27:46,482 --> 00:27:49,206 that this was not her burning to death. 457 00:27:52,275 --> 00:27:55,517 And, then with the gun, "get in the car, now." 458 00:27:57,793 --> 00:28:03,044 Leaving that situation was... 459 00:28:03,068 --> 00:28:05,976 I can't even put it all into words because I was so... 460 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,631 All of us were so desensitized, 461 00:28:09,655 --> 00:28:13,424 but it was still hugely traumatic. 462 00:28:13,448 --> 00:28:18,148 You can't unsee that, but there was a sense of relief. 463 00:28:18,172 --> 00:28:21,355 You know, she wasn't going to be tortured on the floor anymore. 464 00:28:21,379 --> 00:28:24,206 Her fight was done. 465 00:28:26,241 --> 00:28:28,206 We never talked about suesan again. 466 00:28:31,241 --> 00:28:34,206 We weren't allowed to mention her name. 467 00:28:40,482 --> 00:28:45,389 This is the last picture of my sister suesan. 468 00:28:45,413 --> 00:28:48,424 I can see a smile on her face. 469 00:28:48,448 --> 00:28:51,389 Maybe this was the last happy time she ever had. 470 00:28:51,413 --> 00:28:53,044 The only thing that she wanted to do was try 471 00:28:53,068 --> 00:28:58,113 and help people, help us, get out of this situation. 472 00:28:58,137 --> 00:29:01,251 I failed her. The system failed her. 473 00:29:01,275 --> 00:29:04,493 My other brothers and sisters failed her. 474 00:29:04,517 --> 00:29:05,907 She tried to do something for everybody 475 00:29:05,931 --> 00:29:08,103 and paid the ultimate price for it. 476 00:29:16,448 --> 00:29:17,596 My mother was psychotic. 477 00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:18,838 She needed somebody to torture. 478 00:29:18,862 --> 00:29:21,631 She needed somebody to beat on, 479 00:29:21,655 --> 00:29:23,896 and it quickly moved over to Sheila. 480 00:29:26,793 --> 00:29:30,113 One day I walk in, in the middle of her beating Sheila. 481 00:29:30,137 --> 00:29:31,596 Stop! 482 00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:34,838 I started yelling, "are you trying to kill her, too?" 483 00:29:34,862 --> 00:29:36,355 If you are, just get it over with. 484 00:29:36,379 --> 00:29:38,803 Stop torturing her. 485 00:29:38,827 --> 00:29:41,458 What did you say? 486 00:29:41,482 --> 00:29:42,700 And then my mom came at me 487 00:29:42,724 --> 00:29:46,044 and she was going to start beating on me, 488 00:29:46,068 --> 00:29:48,734 and I put my hands up, and I said, "no. No. 489 00:29:48,758 --> 00:29:51,907 You are not doing this to me any more." 490 00:29:51,931 --> 00:29:54,424 That was a shift moment for me. 491 00:29:54,448 --> 00:29:56,596 It was scary. 492 00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:58,838 You will never touch me again. 493 00:29:58,862 --> 00:30:02,493 At this point I was 15, and it was oddly exciting 494 00:30:02,517 --> 00:30:04,286 that I had actually stood up to my mom. 495 00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:06,137 I simply turned around and left. 496 00:30:11,827 --> 00:30:13,872 I did not go to the police. 497 00:30:13,896 --> 00:30:15,838 I didn't go to child protective services. 498 00:30:15,862 --> 00:30:18,700 I did not want to be forced back into the home 499 00:30:18,724 --> 00:30:21,148 and end up where suesan was. 500 00:30:21,172 --> 00:30:25,769 By this point, this deep, it was every man for themselves, 501 00:30:25,793 --> 00:30:28,896 but I knew that I hadn't seen the last of my mother. 502 00:30:41,448 --> 00:30:44,010 It obviously followed me, continued stalking me, 503 00:30:44,034 --> 00:30:46,769 and Robert said, 504 00:30:46,793 --> 00:30:48,993 "mom needs you, and you don't want her to come get you." 505 00:30:54,068 --> 00:30:57,241 When I walk in, my mom was there. 506 00:31:00,448 --> 00:31:03,044 You asked to see me? 507 00:31:03,068 --> 00:31:04,872 And she's all, "you created this situation, 508 00:31:04,896 --> 00:31:07,596 and now you're going to have to deal with it." 509 00:31:07,620 --> 00:31:09,803 You're responsible for this. 510 00:31:09,827 --> 00:31:11,355 And I was like, "I haven't been here. 511 00:31:11,379 --> 00:31:13,976 What are you talking about I created a situation?" 512 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,907 Responsible for what? 513 00:31:16,931 --> 00:31:19,700 She said, "well, after you left we had to put Sheila 514 00:31:19,724 --> 00:31:22,182 in the closet to shut her up." 515 00:31:22,206 --> 00:31:25,665 And I said, "what's going on here?" 516 00:31:25,689 --> 00:31:29,769 When my mother opened the door... 517 00:31:29,793 --> 00:31:31,448 Sheila was dead. 518 00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:40,113 What I had heard from Robert many years later 519 00:31:40,137 --> 00:31:44,251 is that she had cried and then begged, 520 00:31:44,275 --> 00:31:47,976 and then pleaded to get out, 521 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,182 and then she started to say things 522 00:31:51,206 --> 00:31:53,700 that didn't make any sense, 523 00:31:53,724 --> 00:31:56,113 and then she stopped saying anything, 524 00:31:56,137 --> 00:31:59,803 and she had left her in there for another day. 525 00:31:59,827 --> 00:32:03,182 You're responsible for this. 526 00:32:03,206 --> 00:32:05,700 Looking at her in that closet 527 00:32:05,724 --> 00:32:12,251 was just every worst thing that you could imagine. 528 00:32:12,275 --> 00:32:14,113 I thought that I had made the right choice 529 00:32:14,137 --> 00:32:19,448 at ending Sheila's beating with a very dramatic statement. 530 00:32:21,655 --> 00:32:23,976 Turns out I was wrong. 531 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,724 You're going to help me make this go away. 532 00:32:39,862 --> 00:32:44,941 This would be the last picture of my sister Sheila. 533 00:32:44,965 --> 00:32:48,803 Sheila, just... She didn't hurt a fly ever. 534 00:32:48,827 --> 00:32:52,631 At that point, I knew that I had failed again. 535 00:32:52,655 --> 00:33:00,182 It was just an amazingly harsh realization... 536 00:33:00,206 --> 00:33:03,217 That nothing I did was going to make a difference, 537 00:33:03,241 --> 00:33:05,493 and that's... Looking at these pictures 538 00:33:05,517 --> 00:33:08,689 every one of them brings back another level of regret. 539 00:33:11,206 --> 00:33:13,217 You'll hear so many people say, 540 00:33:13,241 --> 00:33:16,493 "well, if I had been there I would have..." 541 00:33:16,517 --> 00:33:20,562 Well, I was there, and I didn't, and I regret that, 542 00:33:20,586 --> 00:33:24,320 and there's no way for me to go back and remedy it. 543 00:33:24,344 --> 00:33:26,034 I was too weak. 544 00:33:39,172 --> 00:33:43,344 She told Robert and I to get out of the car and dig a hole. 545 00:33:45,724 --> 00:33:47,907 Robert and I had gotten out 546 00:33:47,931 --> 00:33:51,113 and walked a little ways away from the car, 547 00:33:51,137 --> 00:33:53,631 and almost immediately a sheriff's car 548 00:33:53,655 --> 00:33:56,355 pulled in behind us. 549 00:33:56,379 --> 00:33:57,665 Robert and I hit the ground, 550 00:33:57,689 --> 00:34:00,424 and there's no way that he would have seen us, 551 00:34:00,448 --> 00:34:02,700 and he walked up to my moms window. 552 00:34:02,724 --> 00:34:04,217 She rolled down her window, 553 00:34:04,241 --> 00:34:09,596 and he asked her what she was doing out here. 554 00:34:09,620 --> 00:34:11,664 She says, "I've just been driving awhile, 555 00:34:11,688 --> 00:34:13,320 pulled over to get some rest," 556 00:34:13,344 --> 00:34:16,631 but she seemed very, very comfortable with this situation. 557 00:34:16,655 --> 00:34:20,251 She didn't panic or get edgy, and he said, 558 00:34:20,275 --> 00:34:22,527 "well, you might want to move the car 559 00:34:22,551 --> 00:34:26,010 because it smells like there's a dead deer out here." 560 00:34:26,034 --> 00:34:28,113 He did not sense the smell was coming from the car, 561 00:34:28,137 --> 00:34:29,907 and then he walked back, 562 00:34:29,931 --> 00:34:32,113 got in his car and turned around and drove off, 563 00:34:32,137 --> 00:34:34,355 and then she started the car and turned on lights 564 00:34:34,379 --> 00:34:36,389 and then we just got right back in the car and drove away 565 00:34:36,413 --> 00:34:38,527 because she didn't want to have a record of her car 566 00:34:38,551 --> 00:34:41,724 being at that spot and then have them find Sheila. 567 00:34:44,344 --> 00:34:46,148 We actually went into a different county, 568 00:34:46,172 --> 00:34:47,596 to a different spot. 569 00:34:47,620 --> 00:34:49,631 She just told us, "just take her out, 570 00:34:49,655 --> 00:34:52,355 set her off to the side, and get back to the car quickly," 571 00:34:52,379 --> 00:34:55,241 and so that's what we did. 572 00:35:02,448 --> 00:35:07,320 When the car was in park, I said, "I can't do this, okay? 573 00:35:07,344 --> 00:35:09,148 If you're going to come after me, then come after me. 574 00:35:09,172 --> 00:35:10,941 I'm done with all this." 575 00:35:10,965 --> 00:35:14,976 That's it. I'm not doing this anymore. 576 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,758 And I got out of the car. 577 00:35:18,931 --> 00:35:20,665 You think you can just walk away? 578 00:35:20,689 --> 00:35:24,769 She definitely took the opportunity to, you know... 579 00:35:24,793 --> 00:35:27,734 "you're as guilty as I am in this." 580 00:35:27,758 --> 00:35:29,596 You know, "you were here. You did this." 581 00:35:29,620 --> 00:35:33,493 Her blood is on your hands, too. 582 00:35:33,517 --> 00:35:35,424 Letting me know that if I try to go to the police, 583 00:35:35,448 --> 00:35:37,251 she's going to make sure that I'm going to go down, too, 584 00:35:37,275 --> 00:35:39,769 but, I'm not coming back for anything. 585 00:35:39,793 --> 00:35:42,517 Either kill me or leave me alone. 586 00:35:51,137 --> 00:35:53,355 After I was out, the first several years 587 00:35:53,379 --> 00:35:57,389 I looked over my shoulder every day, all day. 588 00:35:57,413 --> 00:36:00,079 I would go to windows at the front of my job 589 00:36:00,103 --> 00:36:02,217 and, you know, see if I recognized any cars, 590 00:36:02,241 --> 00:36:03,596 see if I recognized any faces. 591 00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:06,286 Is Robert out there? Is my mother out there? 592 00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:09,355 I didn't hear from anybody for years. 593 00:36:09,379 --> 00:36:11,079 I had no contact. 594 00:36:11,103 --> 00:36:14,113 I didn't found out for many, many years that at a certain age 595 00:36:14,137 --> 00:36:16,631 they were grown and out of the house... 596 00:36:16,655 --> 00:36:18,044 Right over there. 597 00:36:18,068 --> 00:36:20,010 ...and that's when two detectives 598 00:36:20,034 --> 00:36:21,769 had showed up at my work. 599 00:36:21,793 --> 00:36:23,553 We're going to have to have you come with us. 600 00:36:26,034 --> 00:36:28,079 They put me in handcuffs 601 00:36:28,103 --> 00:36:30,413 and said I was being arrested for murder. 602 00:36:45,206 --> 00:36:47,838 This is a booking photo. 603 00:36:47,862 --> 00:36:48,941 This is me. 604 00:36:48,965 --> 00:36:52,010 Nobody expects to have one of these. 605 00:36:52,034 --> 00:36:56,079 I'm 25 years old here. 606 00:36:56,103 --> 00:36:59,010 The two detectives took me into custody, 607 00:36:59,034 --> 00:37:02,113 and they said that I was being arrested for murder. 608 00:37:02,137 --> 00:37:03,458 They take me into this room, 609 00:37:03,482 --> 00:37:07,206 and they start showing me pictures of these places. 610 00:37:11,482 --> 00:37:13,769 This could have been the entry 611 00:37:13,793 --> 00:37:15,389 where the turnoff where suesan was, 612 00:37:15,413 --> 00:37:19,734 or this could have been where my mom turned off for Sheila. 613 00:37:19,758 --> 00:37:21,907 The police became aware of the whole story 614 00:37:21,931 --> 00:37:23,872 through my sister Terry. 615 00:37:23,896 --> 00:37:26,458 She had gotten herself in trouble 616 00:37:26,482 --> 00:37:28,562 with the law several times over the years, 617 00:37:28,586 --> 00:37:32,251 and each time she was arrested, she would tell this story, 618 00:37:32,275 --> 00:37:33,769 and they started asking me questions, 619 00:37:33,793 --> 00:37:36,148 mostly about where my mother was, 620 00:37:36,172 --> 00:37:40,079 when I last had contact with her, 621 00:37:40,103 --> 00:37:42,838 and that's when I start to get an idea 622 00:37:42,862 --> 00:37:45,413 of what I'm actually being charged in connection with. 623 00:37:53,758 --> 00:37:55,389 After launching a nationwide search, 624 00:37:55,413 --> 00:37:57,562 investigators found Theresa jimmie knorr 625 00:37:57,586 --> 00:37:58,803 in salt lake city. 626 00:37:58,827 --> 00:38:00,148 She had worked as a care taker 627 00:38:00,172 --> 00:38:02,769 for an 86-year-old woman for over a year 628 00:38:02,793 --> 00:38:06,700 and had just borrowed $4,600 from the woman's son. 629 00:38:06,724 --> 00:38:08,907 Detectives think she was planning to flee. 630 00:38:08,931 --> 00:38:12,320 I was glad that they had found her and that she was caught, 631 00:38:12,344 --> 00:38:13,907 but that didn't mean that I was free. 632 00:38:13,931 --> 00:38:18,458 I brought into the same courtroom as she was. 633 00:38:18,482 --> 00:38:22,562 Accused killer and son number one is Robert knorr, Jr. 634 00:38:22,586 --> 00:38:25,044 He's in a Nevada prison on unrelated charges, 635 00:38:25,068 --> 00:38:28,838 and we're told he won't talk with the cops. 636 00:38:28,862 --> 00:38:32,217 This is alleged co-conspirator and son number two, 637 00:38:32,241 --> 00:38:35,010 26-year-old William knorr. 638 00:38:35,034 --> 00:38:37,734 They believed I was complicit. 639 00:38:37,758 --> 00:38:40,355 "If you weren't guilty of this, why didn't you come forward? 640 00:38:40,379 --> 00:38:41,907 You know, you've had 10 years to come forward. 641 00:38:41,931 --> 00:38:43,527 Why didn't you come forward?" 642 00:38:43,551 --> 00:38:46,665 And the obvious clear answer was, 643 00:38:46,689 --> 00:38:49,000 "look what happened to the people who did." 644 00:38:51,103 --> 00:38:52,458 Suesan tried to come forward. 645 00:38:52,482 --> 00:38:55,700 She had gotten herself with child protective services, 646 00:38:55,724 --> 00:38:57,941 and she's dead. 647 00:38:57,965 --> 00:39:00,527 So I just went about trying to live my life. 648 00:39:00,551 --> 00:39:02,424 Knorr remained passive throughout the hearing, 649 00:39:02,448 --> 00:39:05,803 but, her son, charged as an accomplice, was uncomfortable. 650 00:39:05,827 --> 00:39:09,079 His attorney says seeing his mother makes him nervous. 651 00:39:09,103 --> 00:39:10,941 Nervous is not the right word. 652 00:39:10,965 --> 00:39:15,941 I was caught so off guard by her being walked into that courtroom 653 00:39:15,965 --> 00:39:18,079 that I just broke all the way down. 654 00:39:18,103 --> 00:39:19,458 I couldn't breathe. 655 00:39:19,482 --> 00:39:20,769 I was sweating. 656 00:39:20,793 --> 00:39:24,286 This, to me, is the face of my torturer, 657 00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:30,493 and the guy next to me told them to get me out of there. 658 00:39:30,517 --> 00:39:33,172 After that day in the courtroom, I have not seen her again. 659 00:39:44,344 --> 00:39:46,689 It's obviously a recent picture of my mother. 660 00:39:49,034 --> 00:39:51,631 The fact that she would spend the rest of her natural life 661 00:39:51,655 --> 00:39:53,527 incarcerated was a relief. 662 00:39:53,551 --> 00:39:56,344 I never saw any sign of remorse from my mother, ever. 663 00:39:59,206 --> 00:40:03,355 I don't believe she's even capable of remorse, 664 00:40:03,379 --> 00:40:06,838 and there will never be a time in my future 665 00:40:06,862 --> 00:40:10,931 that I will ever want to have contact or see my mother again. 666 00:40:25,310 --> 00:40:27,596 He was already in jail in ely, Nevada, 667 00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:31,458 for an unrelated crime, but when they interviewed him, 668 00:40:31,482 --> 00:40:37,217 he gave almost an identical statement to what I did. 669 00:40:37,241 --> 00:40:39,044 Robert and I spoke to each other one time 670 00:40:39,068 --> 00:40:44,010 while on a transport bus, and I don't know where he's at. 671 00:40:44,034 --> 00:40:46,631 We have not been in touch. 672 00:40:46,655 --> 00:40:49,172 I have had no further contact with him, either. 673 00:40:59,517 --> 00:41:03,562 I have done a lot of work on myself in a lot of ways, 674 00:41:03,586 --> 00:41:05,424 and it's gotten better over the years, 675 00:41:05,448 --> 00:41:10,458 but I don't have the full connections to emotions 676 00:41:10,482 --> 00:41:12,251 like so many folks do. 677 00:41:12,275 --> 00:41:18,148 The biggest emotion that I have is absolute regret 678 00:41:18,172 --> 00:41:21,976 that I wasn't a better person. 679 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,044 I still find difficulties in external relationships. 680 00:41:27,068 --> 00:41:29,976 I don't necessarily have a lot of friends, 681 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,424 but my life today is very, very different. 682 00:41:33,448 --> 00:41:36,734 I have a wife and a beautiful daughter. 683 00:41:36,758 --> 00:41:39,907 I would like to think I'm a decent dad to my kiddo. 684 00:41:39,931 --> 00:41:42,010 I think my daughter actually likes me. 685 00:41:42,034 --> 00:41:45,389 The day to days of my life are like anybody else's. 686 00:41:45,413 --> 00:41:46,700 I go to work, do the best job 687 00:41:46,724 --> 00:41:49,803 I can, go home, spend time with my family. 688 00:41:49,827 --> 00:41:52,827 We have what seems to be a pretty normal life. 689 00:41:58,068 --> 00:41:59,941 I can't explain my mother. 690 00:41:59,965 --> 00:42:02,493 I don't really want to try to understand her. 691 00:42:02,517 --> 00:42:04,976 I just want to be a better parent than she was, 692 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,734 and I know that's setting the bar really low, 693 00:42:07,758 --> 00:42:10,803 but I want to be the type of person 694 00:42:10,827 --> 00:42:14,734 that when my daughter is older, 695 00:42:14,758 --> 00:42:17,941 I want her to be able to trust that she can still come home 696 00:42:17,965 --> 00:42:24,079 to dad's house and feel safe. 697 00:42:24,103 --> 00:42:26,182 I want her to be the defining moment of my life, 698 00:42:26,206 --> 00:42:30,355 to show that I didn't continue the cycle of abuse. 699 00:42:30,379 --> 00:42:33,562 We were taught to be horrible people, 700 00:42:33,586 --> 00:42:36,872 but you can move past it and create a different future 701 00:42:36,896 --> 00:42:38,655 for somebody else.