1 00:00:17,961 --> 00:00:20,561 Why I became famous in Japan? 2 00:00:20,721 --> 00:00:22,241 I became famous in Japan 3 00:00:22,401 --> 00:00:24,801 because nobody believed at the beginning 4 00:00:24,961 --> 00:00:26,881 that I will be able to make it. 5 00:00:27,041 --> 00:00:28,361 And I did it. 6 00:00:32,841 --> 00:00:34,961 No foreigner has turned around 7 00:00:35,121 --> 00:00:38,001 a Japanese company the size of Nissan 8 00:00:38,161 --> 00:00:41,121 in such a way and it was so speedy. 9 00:00:42,361 --> 00:00:44,801 It was dying. It was collapsing. 10 00:00:44,961 --> 00:00:46,481 I revived it. 11 00:00:50,721 --> 00:00:52,801 If you look at his background, 12 00:00:52,961 --> 00:00:57,041 he was a child of Lebanese immigrants, 13 00:00:57,201 --> 00:00:59,241 born in Brazil, 14 00:00:59,401 --> 00:01:03,441 in Japan we'd call him an upstart, 15 00:01:03,601 --> 00:01:07,121 he was not of a high social standing. 16 00:01:07,281 --> 00:01:09,841 He built himself up with his own effort, 17 00:01:10,001 --> 00:01:12,401 and for that kind of person, 18 00:01:12,561 --> 00:01:15,481 money and prestige are everything. 19 00:01:15,641 --> 00:01:17,681 Everything. 20 00:01:19,001 --> 00:01:21,561 I was conscious of the fact 21 00:01:21,721 --> 00:01:24,561 that I would create a lot of frustration. 22 00:01:28,161 --> 00:01:30,241 I am the ultimate outsider. 23 00:01:30,401 --> 00:01:32,481 I was a very strange object. 24 00:01:35,081 --> 00:01:38,761 You know, let's not forget that still a lot of people in Japan 25 00:01:38,921 --> 00:01:43,201 were not happy about a Gaijin taking a CEO position. 26 00:01:43,361 --> 00:01:46,881 They were even less happy to see this Gaijin being successful. 27 00:01:48,081 --> 00:01:50,921 I never thought this would end up like this. 28 00:01:51,681 --> 00:01:55,801 Now Carlos Ghosn is one of the world's most famous fugitives. 29 00:02:04,081 --> 00:02:06,481 Carlos Ghosn, the Renault and Nissan boss, 30 00:02:06,641 --> 00:02:09,161 a titan of the global car industry. 31 00:02:09,321 --> 00:02:11,441 Turning Nissan around. 32 00:02:11,601 --> 00:02:13,241 The saviour of Nissan. 33 00:02:14,001 --> 00:02:17,321 His companies employ nearly 500,000 people. 34 00:02:17,481 --> 00:02:19,121 This guy was a rockstar. 35 00:02:19,281 --> 00:02:22,161 He became this incredible celebrity CEO. 36 00:02:22,921 --> 00:02:25,521 Carlos Ghosn was an auto industry leader 37 00:02:25,681 --> 00:02:27,041 and now he's in jail. 38 00:02:27,201 --> 00:02:30,601 If Ghosn is found guilty, he faces ten years in prison. 39 00:02:31,601 --> 00:02:33,281 Who is worth 12 million? 40 00:02:33,441 --> 00:02:36,921 I'm convinced Carlos Ghosn is guilty. 41 00:02:39,681 --> 00:02:42,641 I would always tell Carlos I'm scared. 42 00:02:42,801 --> 00:02:45,641 When things are always going right, something goes wrong. 43 00:02:56,321 --> 00:02:58,881 Carlos had a board meeting in Tokyo, 44 00:03:01,241 --> 00:03:02,801 and I kissed him goodbye. 45 00:03:02,961 --> 00:03:06,361 I was taking a flight to New York through Paris. 46 00:03:06,521 --> 00:03:10,321 Usually when Carlos lands he always texts me, 47 00:03:10,481 --> 00:03:12,761 you know, "I arrived safely, I love you." 48 00:03:18,961 --> 00:03:21,241 I get to Paris and he sends me a text. 49 00:03:21,401 --> 00:03:23,281 He said, "I arrived safely." 50 00:03:23,441 --> 00:03:27,841 And so I text him back and I said, "I love you," and he didn't respond. 51 00:03:28,001 --> 00:03:29,681 I was like, "That's weird." 52 00:03:34,081 --> 00:03:35,401 I land in New York 53 00:03:35,561 --> 00:03:38,921 and my son Daniel calls me, I'm still on the tarmac. 54 00:03:39,721 --> 00:03:45,361 He's like, "Mom, don't panic, Carlos got arrested in Japan." 55 00:03:47,081 --> 00:03:50,281 And I thought my heart was gonna drop and my knees collapse. 56 00:03:50,441 --> 00:03:52,281 I could barely walk. I was shaking. 57 00:03:58,881 --> 00:04:02,001 I went home, I put the TV on. He was on CNN. 58 00:04:02,161 --> 00:04:06,281 He was on BBC, he was on CNBC, he was everywhere. 59 00:04:07,121 --> 00:04:08,721 According to the Japanese press, 60 00:04:08,881 --> 00:04:14,041 Carlos Ghosn's jet just landed on the tarmac at Tokyo Airport. 61 00:04:14,201 --> 00:04:19,241 A Japanese police van arrives. Investigators climb aboard. 62 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,001 They interrogate the French boss, who cannot be seen in these images, 63 00:04:23,161 --> 00:04:25,241 for almost three hours. 64 00:04:25,401 --> 00:04:28,441 The plane was the symbol of Carlos Ghosn. 65 00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:33,321 In every interview he explained that he travelled a lot, 66 00:04:33,481 --> 00:04:35,961 he slept for a 100 nights out of the year on his plane. 67 00:04:36,121 --> 00:04:37,481 His jet was his home. 68 00:04:38,361 --> 00:04:40,841 The jet is the ultimate luxury 69 00:04:41,001 --> 00:04:43,401 and so therefore it backs up his luxurious image. 70 00:04:44,561 --> 00:04:51,361 We had the added drama of the shutters being drawn. 71 00:04:52,841 --> 00:04:54,281 It's fake. It is. 72 00:04:55,841 --> 00:04:57,161 We learnt that 73 00:04:57,321 --> 00:05:01,121 Carlos Ghosn wasn't in the plane at the time of the arrest. 74 00:05:02,201 --> 00:05:05,601 You need an image, a milestone within the story, 75 00:05:06,481 --> 00:05:11,201 and so this picture is the symbol of Carlos Ghosn's downfall. 76 00:05:11,361 --> 00:05:15,641 Now stock markets have tumbled in the wake of his shock arrest. 77 00:05:15,801 --> 00:05:19,521 Board member Greg Kelly is also accused in the scheme. 78 00:05:20,721 --> 00:05:26,841 I worked for Carlos Ghosn for probably 12 years. 79 00:05:27,001 --> 00:05:29,921 I worked for him in various positions at Nissan 80 00:05:30,081 --> 00:05:32,241 both in North America and Japan. 81 00:05:34,401 --> 00:05:37,761 I get an email that said, "You gotta come to Japan for a meeting." 82 00:05:37,921 --> 00:05:41,521 "We got some issues to discuss, let's just talk about it on video." 83 00:05:41,681 --> 00:05:43,561 "No you really gotta be here." 84 00:05:45,241 --> 00:05:49,881 I get on a plane and I fly to Japan. They had a van for me. 85 00:05:50,041 --> 00:05:53,441 And all of a sudden, in comes a lot of people to the van. 86 00:05:54,721 --> 00:05:59,081 It was the public prosecutor and an interpreter. 87 00:05:59,241 --> 00:06:02,281 Think I might have said, "I don't need to come with you guys," 88 00:06:02,441 --> 00:06:06,121 but I really had no choice, so I went with them. 89 00:06:06,281 --> 00:06:08,121 There were more of them and they were bigger than me. 90 00:06:09,401 --> 00:06:13,801 I really was kind of in shock and awe. I didn't know what was going on. 91 00:06:14,841 --> 00:06:19,281 At a certain point it became more clear to me 92 00:06:19,441 --> 00:06:22,481 that it was something to do with Carlos Ghosn's compensation. 93 00:06:22,641 --> 00:06:24,961 Auto exec Carlos Ghosn has been arrested 94 00:06:25,121 --> 00:06:26,641 for financial violations. 95 00:06:27,561 --> 00:06:29,121 I spoke to a lawyer. 96 00:06:29,281 --> 00:06:31,921 I said, "I'm gonna go straight to Tokyo." 97 00:06:32,081 --> 00:06:35,281 He's like, "Whatever you do, you do not go to Japan, 98 00:06:35,441 --> 00:06:37,161 because they could arrest you, 99 00:06:37,321 --> 00:06:39,201 not because you've done anything wrong, 100 00:06:39,361 --> 00:06:41,121 but they could say you're an accomplice 101 00:06:41,281 --> 00:06:43,281 and they'll put pressure on Carlos, 102 00:06:43,441 --> 00:06:45,641 and we don't know what's going on yet." 103 00:06:45,801 --> 00:06:48,081 What's your take on all this right now? 104 00:06:48,241 --> 00:06:50,081 I mean, what's the best outcome? 105 00:06:51,041 --> 00:06:55,481 We didn't have any information from someone who spoke to Carlos. 106 00:06:55,641 --> 00:06:56,961 We had no news. 107 00:06:57,121 --> 00:07:00,201 Where do we think Carlos Ghosn is right now? 108 00:07:00,361 --> 00:07:03,641 So I had the TV on 24/7. 109 00:07:04,521 --> 00:07:08,441 I had him on Google Alerts hoping to get any information. 110 00:07:08,601 --> 00:07:12,841 Then when we see Saikawa's press conference. 111 00:07:23,481 --> 00:07:25,161 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for waiting. 112 00:07:25,321 --> 00:07:28,041 We would like to begin the press conference. 113 00:07:28,201 --> 00:07:31,281 President and CEO Mr. Saikawa will make remarks. 114 00:07:31,441 --> 00:07:32,961 He will remain seated. 115 00:07:35,161 --> 00:07:39,801 Today in the afternoon, we put out the press release 116 00:07:39,961 --> 00:07:41,441 and has been announced, 117 00:07:41,601 --> 00:07:45,881 our representative director, chairman, Mr. Carlos Ghosn, 118 00:07:46,041 --> 00:07:51,721 according to internal investigation, we discovered significant misconduct 119 00:07:51,881 --> 00:07:54,921 led by Mr. Ghosn himself. 120 00:07:57,001 --> 00:07:59,361 I had no clue, I wasn't understanding anything. 121 00:07:59,521 --> 00:08:03,321 All I knew is my husband did nothing wrong. 122 00:08:03,481 --> 00:08:04,801 We should eliminate 123 00:08:04,961 --> 00:08:07,961 the negative aspects of regime by Mr. Ghosn, 124 00:08:08,121 --> 00:08:12,401 like concentration of power that resulted in distortion. 125 00:08:13,761 --> 00:08:17,921 I think everyone was shell-shocked by this... 126 00:08:18,081 --> 00:08:20,121 He was arrested on suspicion 127 00:08:20,281 --> 00:08:23,841 that he had conspired with executives at Nissan, 128 00:08:24,001 --> 00:08:29,361 that he had been promised more money than he had reported. 129 00:08:29,521 --> 00:08:34,601 ...enough reason for a dismissal. This is a serious misconduct. 130 00:08:34,761 --> 00:08:38,160 There are a lot of things that you can do in business 131 00:08:38,321 --> 00:08:39,881 that are legal, 132 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,241 but are not necessarily ethical. 133 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,521 There was a lot of effort expended at Nissan 134 00:08:48,681 --> 00:08:51,041 on trying to do things, 135 00:08:51,201 --> 00:08:54,281 to accomplish things on behalf of Carlos Ghosn, 136 00:08:54,441 --> 00:08:58,201 that many people would say were unethical. 137 00:08:58,921 --> 00:09:03,721 Was he a charismatic figure or a tyrant, or dictator? 138 00:09:03,881 --> 00:09:06,841 I would like to think thoroughly about this. 139 00:09:07,001 --> 00:09:09,281 I think at the outset, 140 00:09:09,441 --> 00:09:11,561 when he probably first came to Nissan, 141 00:09:11,721 --> 00:09:14,401 people really found him a breath of fresh air. 142 00:09:14,561 --> 00:09:16,681 As time progressed, 143 00:09:16,841 --> 00:09:20,801 I think they had a slightly different view about him. 144 00:09:22,841 --> 00:09:24,881 Probably more dictatorial, 145 00:09:25,041 --> 00:09:29,921 probably not letting go of things and letting people do their jobs. 146 00:09:31,121 --> 00:09:33,001 I don't know how to express it. 147 00:09:33,161 --> 00:09:36,921 I feel despair and indignation or resentment. 148 00:09:38,201 --> 00:09:43,361 It created a culture where everyone would follow his lead, 149 00:09:43,521 --> 00:09:46,081 without sometimes pulling him up 150 00:09:46,241 --> 00:09:48,641 or saying to him, "Mr. Ghosn, maybe you should think about this." 151 00:09:48,801 --> 00:09:50,841 That was my opinion. That's what I saw. 152 00:09:51,001 --> 00:09:53,441 We've just heard from the CEO of Nissan itself, 153 00:09:53,601 --> 00:09:55,601 he is giving a press conference right now. 154 00:09:55,761 --> 00:09:59,081 There are numerous other significant acts of misconduct 155 00:09:59,241 --> 00:10:00,561 which have been uncovered, 156 00:10:00,721 --> 00:10:02,841 such as the personal use of company assets 157 00:10:03,001 --> 00:10:04,361 amongst other things... 158 00:10:05,601 --> 00:10:11,081 There is an element where Nissan have turned a blind eye to things. 159 00:10:11,241 --> 00:10:14,161 But I suspect why people were doing this 160 00:10:14,321 --> 00:10:20,001 was to keep Carlos Ghosn happy at Nissan, keep him working there 161 00:10:20,161 --> 00:10:24,321 and not go working for GM or Ford 162 00:10:24,481 --> 00:10:26,881 or whoever would pay him huge amounts of money. 163 00:10:27,041 --> 00:10:30,481 It was an alternative way of remunerating him. 164 00:10:31,281 --> 00:10:35,321 The mastermind of this event, Mr. Greg Kelly, 165 00:10:35,481 --> 00:10:38,801 will be removed from the position of representative director. 166 00:10:41,001 --> 00:10:44,241 At Nissan we had a business problem, and the business problem was 167 00:10:44,401 --> 00:10:46,801 I thought there was a risk he was gonna leave 168 00:10:46,961 --> 00:10:49,841 and so did other senior Japanese executives. 169 00:10:52,361 --> 00:10:55,361 How do we in a way that's legal 170 00:10:55,521 --> 00:10:59,721 take action to retain Carlos Ghosn after he retired? 171 00:11:01,521 --> 00:11:07,001 And I, with Saikawa over a period of several years, 172 00:11:07,161 --> 00:11:11,321 had discussions about how we could best retain Carlos Ghosn. 173 00:11:11,481 --> 00:11:15,281 And that and some other things I wasn't involved in 174 00:11:15,441 --> 00:11:19,561 ended us up in a detention centre in 2018. 175 00:11:19,721 --> 00:11:21,601 It says over many years both Ghosn and Kelly 176 00:11:21,761 --> 00:11:25,881 have been reporting compensation amounts in the Tokyo stock exchange 177 00:11:26,041 --> 00:11:28,361 that were less than the actual amount. 178 00:11:30,841 --> 00:11:34,721 The accusation was non-declaration of a compensation, 179 00:11:35,721 --> 00:11:38,601 which was not paid. 180 00:11:39,761 --> 00:11:42,241 I know the story is a little bit complicated 181 00:11:42,401 --> 00:11:44,681 and it's difficult to simplify it. 182 00:11:44,841 --> 00:11:47,521 But the bottom line is when I talk about compensation, 183 00:11:47,681 --> 00:11:50,041 people think, "You got money, you didn't pay tax." 184 00:11:50,201 --> 00:11:51,521 No, it's not this. 185 00:11:51,681 --> 00:11:53,801 "Oh. You got money, you didn't declare it." No, it's not this. 186 00:11:53,961 --> 00:11:56,241 I didn't get the money. I didn't get the money. 187 00:11:56,401 --> 00:11:57,721 I didn't get any money. 188 00:11:57,881 --> 00:12:01,361 It was about declaration of compensation, money, 189 00:12:01,521 --> 00:12:04,641 that was supposed to be paid after retirement. 190 00:12:06,241 --> 00:12:09,921 To be decided by the board after I retire. 191 00:12:14,921 --> 00:12:20,281 I did not consider that the Japanese would have arrested him 192 00:12:20,441 --> 00:12:24,281 unless they had very strong reasons. 193 00:12:25,841 --> 00:12:27,161 How stupid. 194 00:12:27,321 --> 00:12:31,641 How could Carlos have given them reasons to arrest him? 195 00:12:33,441 --> 00:12:35,001 The Nissan board are voting 196 00:12:35,161 --> 00:12:38,401 to remove Carlos Ghosn as company Chairman. 197 00:12:40,761 --> 00:12:44,961 When you have been the CEO of Nissan for 19 years, 198 00:12:45,801 --> 00:12:49,361 normally you should have within the company a number of friends, 199 00:12:49,521 --> 00:12:55,361 who learning that there's an inquest within your own company against you, 200 00:12:55,521 --> 00:12:57,521 will tell you, "Hey, take care." 201 00:12:59,401 --> 00:13:03,121 Loyalty is made up of positive feelings. 202 00:13:03,281 --> 00:13:06,681 And these positive feelings did not exist. 203 00:13:09,281 --> 00:13:12,601 Nissan executive is calling him greedy. 204 00:13:12,761 --> 00:13:17,401 Saying it shows the dark side of the Ghosn era that is now over. 205 00:13:31,081 --> 00:13:35,241 I went from a completely different life 206 00:13:36,681 --> 00:13:42,561 to where I was in a heartbeat, without really understanding why. 207 00:13:46,161 --> 00:13:48,961 A lot of anxiety, a lot of preoccupation, 208 00:13:49,121 --> 00:13:52,081 a lot of worries of every kind, a lot of questions. 209 00:13:53,801 --> 00:13:55,521 I didn't know anything. 210 00:14:00,761 --> 00:14:04,481 In France, President Macron held back from pointing the finger. 211 00:14:04,641 --> 00:14:08,601 So far the French government say there's no proof of wrongdoing. 212 00:14:14,401 --> 00:14:17,721 The weekly protests are now into their third month 213 00:14:17,881 --> 00:14:22,081 and the clashes between protestors and police are often brutal. 214 00:14:26,841 --> 00:14:29,561 The timing for Carlos was very bad. 215 00:14:29,721 --> 00:14:32,961 Because the gilets jaune started, the yellow vests in France. 216 00:14:34,041 --> 00:14:37,361 There was Macron, he had the yellow vests. 217 00:14:40,601 --> 00:14:45,801 And he had a rich, successful CEO that he needed to support. 218 00:14:45,961 --> 00:14:47,321 He didn't know what to do. 219 00:14:47,481 --> 00:14:50,321 He's being criticized as being the president of the rich. 220 00:14:51,281 --> 00:14:54,121 For many it's about the rising cost of living, 221 00:14:54,281 --> 00:14:57,321 about divisions between the rich and poor. 222 00:14:57,481 --> 00:14:59,121 I think he was in a big dilemma. 223 00:15:02,281 --> 00:15:04,121 Do I help? 224 00:15:06,361 --> 00:15:08,041 He chose the yellow vests. 225 00:15:11,321 --> 00:15:14,521 It's not fair. Carlos was collateral damage. 226 00:15:22,281 --> 00:15:25,521 At the beginning, there was no communication. 227 00:15:25,681 --> 00:15:29,521 The French ambassador was the first one to see him. 228 00:15:30,881 --> 00:15:32,921 The highlight of my day was 229 00:15:33,081 --> 00:15:36,401 I knew the day that the ambassador was gonna call 230 00:15:36,561 --> 00:15:39,161 and just tell me how he is and just, you know, 231 00:15:39,321 --> 00:15:42,521 to feel that he's there and he's okay. 232 00:15:46,961 --> 00:15:50,761 Now what exactly do we know that Renault is calling for? 233 00:15:50,921 --> 00:15:53,041 What do they want? 234 00:15:55,121 --> 00:15:58,201 Carlos's son Anthony got in touch with Renault 235 00:15:58,361 --> 00:16:00,721 and they were just as shocked as we were. 236 00:16:00,881 --> 00:16:02,201 They were saying, 237 00:16:02,361 --> 00:16:05,161 "No, we're gonna do everything to get him out." 238 00:16:05,321 --> 00:16:10,121 And I spoke to one of the women who was Carlos's lawyer at Renault, 239 00:16:10,281 --> 00:16:12,281 and she's telling me, "We don't know what's going on, 240 00:16:12,441 --> 00:16:14,841 but this is much bigger than we think." 241 00:16:16,921 --> 00:16:19,521 And she said, "I can't talk over the phone 242 00:16:19,681 --> 00:16:21,521 but this isn't just about this arrest, 243 00:16:21,681 --> 00:16:23,161 it's much bigger." 244 00:16:24,361 --> 00:16:25,961 My heart sank. 245 00:16:34,601 --> 00:16:35,921 We're starting with a video 246 00:16:36,081 --> 00:16:38,681 that has put former Nissan Chairman Carlos Ghosn in hot water. 247 00:16:38,841 --> 00:16:41,161 He's already in hot water. This is deeper hot water. 248 00:16:41,321 --> 00:16:42,721 Deeper hot water indeed. 249 00:16:42,881 --> 00:16:45,001 Now officially this is a video of a business party 250 00:16:45,161 --> 00:16:48,481 to celebrate the 15 years of the Renault-Nissan Alliance 251 00:16:48,641 --> 00:16:52,281 which also happens to be Carlos Ghosn's 60th birthday. 252 00:16:52,441 --> 00:16:57,041 Renault paid over 630,000 euros for this Louis XIV-themed gala. 253 00:16:58,601 --> 00:17:01,441 So was it a birthday party? Was it a business party? 254 00:17:01,601 --> 00:17:03,721 People don't know yet. Or was it both? 255 00:17:07,281 --> 00:17:12,041 They started attacking Carlos in France about Versailles. 256 00:17:12,201 --> 00:17:14,761 And then there was a huge shift. 257 00:17:16,281 --> 00:17:20,481 On Twitter, users are commenting on how lavish this affair was. 258 00:17:20,641 --> 00:17:22,721 "It's grotesque and indecent." 259 00:17:28,761 --> 00:17:32,321 He thinks he's, you know, Louis XIV 260 00:17:32,481 --> 00:17:35,281 and I'm Marie Antionette. 261 00:17:35,441 --> 00:17:37,961 And he's lost it. 262 00:17:39,441 --> 00:17:41,561 He's abusing his privileges. 263 00:17:45,121 --> 00:17:46,921 Terrible timing. Terrible timing. 264 00:17:47,081 --> 00:17:49,361 It's really not doing him any favours right now. 265 00:17:53,601 --> 00:17:57,001 I mean, what does one think when one sees something like that? 266 00:18:01,481 --> 00:18:03,881 If you're a guy who's going to be laying off French auto workers, 267 00:18:04,041 --> 00:18:06,881 then maybe a party at Versailles isn't the best look. 268 00:18:09,441 --> 00:18:11,601 Come on, nobody would do that. 269 00:18:11,761 --> 00:18:13,721 Nobody. You believe you are a God? 270 00:18:13,881 --> 00:18:17,961 You believe you are above any law? Any ethics? 271 00:18:18,121 --> 00:18:21,601 The only thing that counts is your own ego? 272 00:18:21,761 --> 00:18:23,641 Maybe it's legal, 273 00:18:23,801 --> 00:18:27,521 but from an ethical viewpoint, this is a catastrophe. 274 00:18:27,681 --> 00:18:29,001 This is awful. 275 00:18:37,361 --> 00:18:39,441 The investigation is thought to have found 276 00:18:39,601 --> 00:18:43,561 that he used Nissan to secretly fund various homes around the world. 277 00:18:43,721 --> 00:18:47,401 A Nissan official is now saying that Ghosn has six houses provided, 278 00:18:47,561 --> 00:18:51,161 that his sister had an advisory contract as well. 279 00:18:55,961 --> 00:18:59,681 Why should the company pay him a house in Lebanon and Brazil? 280 00:19:01,481 --> 00:19:07,241 In my case the company never paid me a cent for my apartment in Paris. 281 00:19:07,401 --> 00:19:12,161 Lebanon is nothing for Renault or for Nissan. It's crazy. 282 00:19:12,321 --> 00:19:15,161 These apartments were known by everybody. 283 00:19:15,321 --> 00:19:17,001 I was working from these apartments. 284 00:19:17,161 --> 00:19:19,041 And all of a sudden, 285 00:19:19,201 --> 00:19:22,841 the interpretation which was given by Nissan is, 286 00:19:23,001 --> 00:19:29,121 "He secretly, you know, asked the company to buy these apartments, 287 00:19:29,281 --> 00:19:31,401 to benefit from these apartments." 288 00:19:36,921 --> 00:19:40,521 It's a question really not of did these things happen, 289 00:19:42,201 --> 00:19:44,961 but why did they come out at the time they did 290 00:19:45,121 --> 00:19:47,321 or why were they given the emphasis they were. 291 00:19:48,081 --> 00:19:49,441 The fact is that 292 00:19:49,601 --> 00:19:53,881 although his case was something that was going to be adjudicated 293 00:19:54,041 --> 00:19:55,521 by a court of law, 294 00:19:55,681 --> 00:19:57,121 at the same time, 295 00:19:57,281 --> 00:20:00,961 there is this court of public opinion as well. 296 00:20:03,081 --> 00:20:05,241 Let's start with that recent announcement 297 00:20:05,401 --> 00:20:06,881 led by the French finance minister 298 00:20:07,041 --> 00:20:09,841 that Carlos Ghosn has officially resigned from Renault. 299 00:20:13,641 --> 00:20:15,801 One newspaper said 300 00:20:15,961 --> 00:20:20,401 that in their estimation the cost for Nissan of this campaign, 301 00:20:20,561 --> 00:20:25,761 of every they had done around me, is north of $200 million. 302 00:20:29,481 --> 00:20:31,761 All of a sudden I went 303 00:20:31,921 --> 00:20:37,081 from the corporate hero that saved Nissan to the villain. 304 00:20:39,801 --> 00:20:44,201 I was not expecting a CEO to be a very sympathetic figure. 305 00:20:44,361 --> 00:20:45,761 It's very rare. 306 00:20:46,681 --> 00:20:48,521 I was not expecting somebody 307 00:20:48,681 --> 00:20:52,001 with a reputation of having a high compensation 308 00:20:52,161 --> 00:20:54,281 to be a very sympathetic figure. 309 00:20:54,441 --> 00:20:59,001 I was not expecting somebody who belongs to many societies, 310 00:20:59,161 --> 00:21:00,481 many countries, 311 00:21:00,641 --> 00:21:03,281 who is not a national French, a national Brazilian, 312 00:21:03,441 --> 00:21:06,761 a national this or that to be a very sympathetic figure. 313 00:21:06,921 --> 00:21:08,961 So when you combine the three, 314 00:21:09,121 --> 00:21:11,761 you know, it was an easy job to go after him. 315 00:21:15,401 --> 00:21:18,521 A few people within Renault at the beginning, they would talk to me 316 00:21:18,681 --> 00:21:21,721 and then I asked his legal department what's going on 317 00:21:22,961 --> 00:21:26,041 and they would give me a little bit of information. 318 00:21:26,201 --> 00:21:28,161 And then one day, she told me, 319 00:21:28,321 --> 00:21:31,961 "Please stop calling me, I'm not allowed to talk to you." 320 00:21:32,121 --> 00:21:33,441 And I said, "Why not?" 321 00:21:33,601 --> 00:21:36,481 They said, "These are the rules, so you cannot call us anymore." 322 00:21:36,641 --> 00:21:38,481 And they all told me the same thing. 323 00:21:42,841 --> 00:21:45,481 Nissan did everything in order to make sure 324 00:21:45,641 --> 00:21:49,121 that they would turn public opinion in France against me 325 00:21:49,281 --> 00:21:53,321 to paralyze any action from the French government 326 00:21:53,481 --> 00:21:54,841 to support me. 327 00:22:01,601 --> 00:22:05,041 He's been in a Tokyo jail now for 50 days. 328 00:22:09,841 --> 00:22:14,081 I lost 15 kilograms in a few weeks. 329 00:22:15,681 --> 00:22:19,601 The interrogation of the prosecutor started only in the afternoon. 330 00:22:19,761 --> 00:22:21,081 We were brought by the guardian 331 00:22:21,241 --> 00:22:22,801 into a specific room of interrogation. 332 00:22:24,801 --> 00:22:26,121 There is no lawyer 333 00:22:26,281 --> 00:22:29,001 and there is a camera which is filming everything. 334 00:22:30,921 --> 00:22:34,321 You are totally under the command of the prosecutor. 335 00:22:34,481 --> 00:22:35,841 And he makes you feel that. 336 00:22:36,001 --> 00:22:38,161 "What do you remember?" "Who wrote this memo?" 337 00:22:38,321 --> 00:22:39,681 "When it was written?" 338 00:22:40,921 --> 00:22:44,921 The prosecutor was always surprised, "Oh, you have a short memory." 339 00:22:45,721 --> 00:22:47,961 When you try to give an explanation, he's telling you, 340 00:22:48,121 --> 00:22:50,201 "You have always an explanation for everything." 341 00:22:50,361 --> 00:22:52,521 After one day and two days and three days 342 00:22:52,681 --> 00:22:54,921 and 20 days and 40 days of interrogation, 343 00:22:55,081 --> 00:22:56,441 a lot of people give up. 344 00:23:00,001 --> 00:23:02,401 It's hard for me being in the system right now 345 00:23:02,561 --> 00:23:04,881 to talk to you about what it seems. 346 00:23:06,761 --> 00:23:09,841 To be interrogated without your attorney for... 347 00:23:11,361 --> 00:23:14,161 125 to 150 hours, 348 00:23:14,321 --> 00:23:17,801 about 30 days, 32 days. 349 00:23:19,641 --> 00:23:21,921 I come from the United States. 350 00:23:23,161 --> 00:23:24,561 I would have thought 351 00:23:24,721 --> 00:23:28,921 that in a country like Japan, which is a very, very fine country, 352 00:23:29,081 --> 00:23:33,161 it would work sort of like that, and it doesn't. 353 00:23:33,321 --> 00:23:35,041 You know, it just doesn't. 354 00:23:37,361 --> 00:23:39,481 Well, there was nothing to confess to. 355 00:23:42,001 --> 00:23:44,241 They said, "If you don't confess, 356 00:23:44,401 --> 00:23:46,961 it's going to become more painful for you." 357 00:23:48,161 --> 00:23:51,881 "If you don't confess, well, we're going to have to dig deeper, 358 00:23:52,041 --> 00:23:53,441 we're going to find other things, 359 00:23:53,601 --> 00:23:56,041 and maybe these other things are going to involve your wife, 360 00:23:56,201 --> 00:23:58,961 they're gonna involve your kids," etcetera. 361 00:23:59,121 --> 00:24:00,441 So... 362 00:24:02,041 --> 00:24:03,561 It was a direct threat. 363 00:24:07,401 --> 00:24:12,441 Ghosn is a respected businessman and earned a high salary. 364 00:24:12,601 --> 00:24:14,561 This is due to Japan's corporate law. 365 00:24:14,721 --> 00:24:17,121 He was able to attain this social standing 366 00:24:17,281 --> 00:24:21,041 as a result of Japan's system. He gained many assets too. 367 00:24:21,201 --> 00:24:23,921 For him, to criticise Japan's criminal justice system 368 00:24:24,081 --> 00:24:26,001 is unfair in my opinion. 369 00:24:29,521 --> 00:24:32,721 If I was his lawyer, I would have told him, 370 00:24:32,881 --> 00:24:35,241 "You've made a mistake, so just confess." 371 00:24:35,401 --> 00:24:37,401 "It's better for you to confess." 372 00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:46,321 I am absolutely convinced that Carlos Ghosn is guilty. 373 00:24:47,841 --> 00:24:49,841 From my experience 374 00:24:50,001 --> 00:24:52,281 in the special investigation department, 375 00:24:53,401 --> 00:24:57,121 they're fully confident before they prosecute. 376 00:24:57,281 --> 00:25:00,441 I'm sure there's plenty of evidence to prove him guilty 377 00:25:03,401 --> 00:25:06,081 Even if you are not guilty, 378 00:25:06,241 --> 00:25:09,881 the prosecutor can make you confess to it. 379 00:25:12,641 --> 00:25:17,481 It's alright if a suspect confesses willingly, 380 00:25:17,641 --> 00:25:21,281 but often a prosecutor coerces a false confession. 381 00:25:21,441 --> 00:25:22,801 A false confession. 382 00:25:22,961 --> 00:25:29,481 So unfortunately that makes the conviction rate higher than 99%. 383 00:25:32,441 --> 00:25:37,281 The statistic of the prosecutor winning the case at 99.4%, 384 00:25:37,441 --> 00:25:39,681 it was given to me by my lawyers. 385 00:25:40,921 --> 00:25:43,641 It doesn't give you too much margin for success. 386 00:25:43,801 --> 00:25:45,241 But if you want to play this margin, 387 00:25:45,401 --> 00:25:47,761 you needed somebody who has already won a few times. 388 00:25:51,601 --> 00:25:56,001 And this is where Hironaka and Takano came to play. 389 00:25:56,161 --> 00:26:00,121 TAKASHI TAKANO CARLOS GHOSN'S DEFENCE LAWYER 390 00:26:02,281 --> 00:26:06,681 They do whatever is takes to discourage you from fighting. 391 00:26:08,521 --> 00:26:13,441 That's why they will try to take you hostage first. 392 00:26:16,121 --> 00:26:19,281 Then you give up because you want to get out. 393 00:26:19,441 --> 00:26:23,361 My impression at the time was that he was totally different 394 00:26:23,521 --> 00:26:26,321 to the Carlos Ghosn on TV and in the papers. 395 00:26:26,481 --> 00:26:28,361 He was a really small old man 396 00:26:28,521 --> 00:26:31,081 sitting on the other side of the acrylic screen. 397 00:26:31,241 --> 00:26:35,681 He was very haggard, very tired. 398 00:26:35,841 --> 00:26:42,161 He listened to me, but he was vaguely there. 399 00:26:43,121 --> 00:26:48,641 I thought he must be exhausted, perhaps despairing even. 400 00:26:50,521 --> 00:26:52,921 If you fall into their hands, 401 00:26:53,081 --> 00:26:55,401 there is no way you're going to get out. 402 00:26:57,521 --> 00:27:00,201 He has asked to talk to the court and he'll be given ten minutes. 403 00:27:00,361 --> 00:27:03,281 He has a rope around his waist and be handcuffed, 404 00:27:03,441 --> 00:27:06,521 because that's the way they do it in Japanese courts. 405 00:27:08,241 --> 00:27:11,481 This has been a seven-week-long ordeal for Carlos Ghosn, 406 00:27:11,641 --> 00:27:14,361 and this is the first time he had his day in court. 407 00:27:14,521 --> 00:27:17,001 So far, the prosecution has dominated the narrative. 408 00:27:17,161 --> 00:27:19,481 And this is his chance to set the record straight 409 00:27:19,641 --> 00:27:21,601 and tell his side of the story. 410 00:27:23,481 --> 00:27:25,321 It's fascinating. 411 00:27:25,481 --> 00:27:30,521 Corporate and business scandals go on all the time. 412 00:27:30,681 --> 00:27:34,201 But we expect to hear from the accused. 413 00:27:47,041 --> 00:27:51,681 - How is Carlos Ghosn doing? - No comment, thank you. 414 00:27:54,281 --> 00:27:57,081 He says he was unfairly detained, wrongly accused, 415 00:27:57,241 --> 00:27:59,841 and more importantly innocent of all the charges 416 00:28:00,001 --> 00:28:02,561 the prosecution have levied against him. 417 00:28:04,961 --> 00:28:09,321 It's not normal to see a company director arrested 418 00:28:09,481 --> 00:28:12,881 immediately for a financial story. 419 00:28:13,041 --> 00:28:15,121 It's not logical. 420 00:28:16,241 --> 00:28:17,561 It's a business matter 421 00:28:17,721 --> 00:28:20,081 that should be treated by a board of directors. 422 00:28:23,641 --> 00:28:25,121 In these circumstances 423 00:28:25,281 --> 00:28:28,121 a board of directors would summon the CEO to say, 424 00:28:28,281 --> 00:28:31,241 "Excuse me, sir, you've gone too far." 425 00:28:31,401 --> 00:28:34,841 "Thank you and goodbye, the door is over there." 426 00:28:35,001 --> 00:28:38,201 "Please see our lawyers to negotiate your leaving conditions." 427 00:28:39,921 --> 00:28:42,241 We immediately started to think 428 00:28:42,401 --> 00:28:44,801 that something else was going on here. 429 00:28:51,681 --> 00:28:54,761 All I wanted to do was help Carlos out. 430 00:28:56,521 --> 00:28:58,281 What am I supposed to do 431 00:28:58,441 --> 00:29:03,041 to let the world know how my husband is being treated? 432 00:29:03,201 --> 00:29:08,201 I was very nervous going to meet President Sarkozy. 433 00:29:10,201 --> 00:29:12,001 Actually, Sarkozy was very funny. 434 00:29:12,161 --> 00:29:16,841 He told me, "I have no sympathy for your husband." 435 00:29:17,001 --> 00:29:20,361 "I don't really particularly like him, but I respect him." 436 00:29:22,201 --> 00:29:26,321 But what's shocking is how France is doing nothing. 437 00:29:26,481 --> 00:29:29,521 And he said, if he was still president, 438 00:29:29,681 --> 00:29:32,241 he would have physically sent someone 439 00:29:32,401 --> 00:29:35,001 to go get Carlos and bring him back to France. 440 00:29:36,761 --> 00:29:39,241 He told me, "What are you doing? You're the wife." 441 00:29:39,401 --> 00:29:43,481 "You need to be more aggressive, stop being so passive." 442 00:29:44,641 --> 00:29:47,841 Here the politicians react if you change public opinion. 443 00:29:48,001 --> 00:29:49,921 Start talking about your husband. 444 00:29:50,081 --> 00:29:52,921 Your husband is being treated unjustly 445 00:29:53,081 --> 00:29:55,041 and this is unacceptable. 446 00:29:55,201 --> 00:29:57,041 Be courageous, I know you could do it. 447 00:29:57,201 --> 00:29:59,561 Speak out and he told me what to do. 448 00:30:00,921 --> 00:30:04,761 In fact I find it shocking the deafening silence 449 00:30:04,921 --> 00:30:07,881 of the French government. 450 00:30:08,041 --> 00:30:09,801 I know that you have asked President Trump 451 00:30:09,961 --> 00:30:11,681 to try and do what he can and intervene. 452 00:30:11,841 --> 00:30:13,241 But why not the French government? 453 00:30:13,401 --> 00:30:16,281 Because the French government threw my husband under the bus. 454 00:30:16,441 --> 00:30:22,001 We did CNN twice, CNBC twice, the BBC, Bloomberg. 455 00:30:22,161 --> 00:30:24,281 Some of the conditions that you've described here: 456 00:30:24,441 --> 00:30:25,761 he was on isolation, 457 00:30:25,921 --> 00:30:28,001 wasn't getting enough food, there was no heat? 458 00:30:28,161 --> 00:30:31,241 It's made to break the person, 459 00:30:31,401 --> 00:30:34,361 so they confess to a crime, even to crimes they haven't done. 460 00:30:34,521 --> 00:30:36,241 It's called the hostage justice. 461 00:30:36,401 --> 00:30:40,641 Anyone who's willing to hear what I had to say to help my husband. 462 00:30:40,801 --> 00:30:42,401 I was there. 463 00:30:42,561 --> 00:30:44,841 What does the future hold for you? 464 00:30:45,001 --> 00:30:47,241 What does it look like for you right now? 465 00:30:47,401 --> 00:30:49,281 It's very hard to know what's going to happen, 466 00:30:49,441 --> 00:30:52,721 I'm very I'm anxious, I'm worried. You know, this is shocking. 467 00:30:52,881 --> 00:30:54,201 It's tragic what's happened 468 00:30:54,361 --> 00:30:58,481 and I'm hoping, you know, it's going to end one day, 469 00:30:58,641 --> 00:31:00,481 because it's hard to live this way. 470 00:31:06,241 --> 00:31:09,281 First, while you are being investigated, 471 00:31:09,441 --> 00:31:11,321 you cannot see anybody from outside. 472 00:31:13,881 --> 00:31:17,481 After you are indicted, you can meet people from outside, 473 00:31:17,641 --> 00:31:22,721 but you have the right for one visit a day for 15 minutes. 474 00:31:22,881 --> 00:31:25,561 That's it. And you have to choose who is the visitor. 475 00:31:27,601 --> 00:31:32,041 They told me they're giving him visitation rights. 476 00:31:32,201 --> 00:31:34,761 You're not gonna get arrested. 477 00:31:34,921 --> 00:31:38,081 Come on the plane now and come and see him. He really needs you. 478 00:31:41,201 --> 00:31:43,881 There was a glass window that separated us. 479 00:31:44,041 --> 00:31:46,641 I couldn't even hug him or even touch him. 480 00:31:47,801 --> 00:31:49,601 And there was two guards. 481 00:31:52,041 --> 00:31:54,401 One was writing every word we were saying 482 00:31:54,561 --> 00:31:56,401 and the other one was just sitting there. 483 00:31:59,641 --> 00:32:02,321 It was a very intense moment. 484 00:32:02,481 --> 00:32:04,201 A moment of love, obviously. 485 00:32:04,361 --> 00:32:07,081 We were trying to express our love for each other 486 00:32:07,241 --> 00:32:09,201 in these particular circumstances, 487 00:32:09,401 --> 00:32:12,401 but also a moment of reassurance. 488 00:32:15,481 --> 00:32:17,961 I remember he told me... 489 00:32:19,921 --> 00:32:21,601 I lost so much, 490 00:32:21,761 --> 00:32:24,441 and I was so scared I'm gonna also lose you. 491 00:32:26,921 --> 00:32:28,241 And then... 492 00:32:30,881 --> 00:32:32,521 He broke my heart. 493 00:32:32,681 --> 00:32:35,601 But I told him, "Carlos, I guess you don't know me." 494 00:32:35,761 --> 00:32:38,321 "I'm here to stay." You know? 495 00:32:39,361 --> 00:32:42,441 "I'm not going anywhere, and I'm gonna wait for you 496 00:32:42,601 --> 00:32:45,121 and we're gonna fight this. and we're together in this." 497 00:32:50,401 --> 00:32:53,401 Former Nissan Chairman Carlos Ghosn's new legal team 498 00:32:53,561 --> 00:32:55,521 is applying for bail again. 499 00:32:55,681 --> 00:32:58,281 This is his third attempt. 500 00:32:58,441 --> 00:32:59,761 Ghosn was denied bail twice 501 00:32:59,921 --> 00:33:02,761 after being considered a flight risk by two judges. 502 00:33:02,921 --> 00:33:06,121 He's now spent more than 100 days in jail. 503 00:33:11,961 --> 00:33:14,121 Takashi Takano came and said, 504 00:33:14,281 --> 00:33:17,441 "Look, I will do everything I can in order to obtain the bailout." 505 00:33:19,001 --> 00:33:21,561 For the first time I had some hope 506 00:33:21,721 --> 00:33:25,881 that maybe there was some light 507 00:33:26,041 --> 00:33:28,801 and maybe I could have a semi-normal life 508 00:33:28,961 --> 00:33:30,521 waiting for my trial. 509 00:33:30,681 --> 00:33:32,321 Takano's son explained to us 510 00:33:32,481 --> 00:33:36,201 that this was going to be under very, very strict conditions. 511 00:33:36,361 --> 00:33:38,481 That there might be a camera at home, 512 00:33:38,641 --> 00:33:41,881 and, you know, we're going to give him a specific phone, 513 00:33:42,041 --> 00:33:45,201 that he could only use this Japanese phone, 514 00:33:45,361 --> 00:33:47,881 and that he could use the Internet in the office 515 00:33:48,041 --> 00:33:51,281 and any person we see we have to write down their name, 516 00:33:51,441 --> 00:33:52,881 when they come in and out. 517 00:33:53,041 --> 00:33:58,041 So he was saying, "I'm making it difficult for the judge to say no." 518 00:34:01,401 --> 00:34:04,041 The last two days the suspense was very high. 519 00:34:04,201 --> 00:34:07,721 We didn't know if he was going to accept the bailout or not. 520 00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:14,481 And when the bailout was accepted it was a huge relief. 521 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,401 Since this case, 522 00:34:19,561 --> 00:34:25,361 I've suddenly been called a "bail expert." 523 00:34:25,521 --> 00:34:29,401 But I find that quite weird. 524 00:34:30,281 --> 00:34:33,881 I felt that if he had been arrested in America 525 00:34:34,041 --> 00:34:39,361 he would have been released on bail that day or the next day. 526 00:34:39,521 --> 00:34:42,041 He would have been able to continue working 527 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,160 and prepare for the trial. 528 00:34:44,321 --> 00:34:45,921 Carlos Ghosn, the former head of Nissan 529 00:34:46,081 --> 00:34:47,761 and a titan of the auto industry 530 00:34:47,921 --> 00:34:50,281 could soon get his first taste of freedom in more than three months. 531 00:34:50,441 --> 00:34:52,200 A court in Tokyo has granted him bail 532 00:34:52,361 --> 00:34:55,281 set at almost US $9 million, a billion yen. 533 00:34:58,041 --> 00:34:59,801 The question is not only $9 million. 534 00:34:59,961 --> 00:35:01,561 But you have to have liquid $9 million, 535 00:35:01,721 --> 00:35:04,241 you have to pay in cash $9 million 536 00:35:04,401 --> 00:35:06,161 at a certain point in time. 537 00:35:07,881 --> 00:35:09,601 And my family helped me a lot. 538 00:35:09,761 --> 00:35:11,441 Gathering the money. 539 00:35:11,601 --> 00:35:14,441 They did impossible things to get this money gathered, 540 00:35:14,601 --> 00:35:19,201 send it in time, pay it to the appropriate administration, 541 00:35:19,361 --> 00:35:20,681 and get me out. 542 00:35:23,281 --> 00:35:26,281 There are people say that 543 00:35:26,441 --> 00:35:31,241 Carlos Ghosn's bail of $9 million was too high, 544 00:35:31,401 --> 00:35:35,401 but fundamentally bail is calculated based 545 00:35:35,561 --> 00:35:38,561 on the person's assets. 546 00:35:40,681 --> 00:35:45,721 In this way, considering the value of Carlos Ghosn's assets, 547 00:35:45,881 --> 00:35:48,601 $9 million is like chicken feed. 548 00:35:49,841 --> 00:35:55,881 Ten or 50 times that would be more appropriate. 549 00:35:58,081 --> 00:36:00,401 I knew it would be a circus outside. 550 00:36:00,561 --> 00:36:05,041 I could hear the helicopters of the TV stations. 551 00:36:05,841 --> 00:36:08,641 That's what made Takano think that 552 00:36:08,801 --> 00:36:11,121 maybe we should try a diversion 553 00:36:11,281 --> 00:36:15,681 and I should put the clothes of a worker 554 00:36:15,841 --> 00:36:18,001 and go out with other workers 555 00:36:18,161 --> 00:36:21,841 and get out of prison without the attention of the media. 556 00:36:28,841 --> 00:36:35,561 Then when the family came to the car where my luggage was embarked 557 00:36:35,721 --> 00:36:38,121 and they noticed that I was not there. 558 00:36:39,401 --> 00:36:42,161 This is where the helicopters went after the van 559 00:36:42,321 --> 00:36:45,721 and everybody rushed to Tokyo and the circus started. 560 00:37:20,641 --> 00:37:23,001 I went to the apartment around 4.00pm 561 00:37:23,161 --> 00:37:25,121 and he came home around ten, 11, 562 00:37:25,281 --> 00:37:27,641 because he was trying to get rid of the press 563 00:37:27,801 --> 00:37:30,001 and then it was so nice when he came in 564 00:37:30,161 --> 00:37:34,121 and I was finally able, you know, to hug him or just to touch him. 565 00:37:43,521 --> 00:37:44,841 Madame Ghosn. 566 00:37:45,001 --> 00:37:47,961 It was a zoo for a couple of weeks 567 00:37:51,681 --> 00:37:54,041 Please leave us alone, he needs his privacy. 568 00:37:54,201 --> 00:37:55,801 Please leave us alone. 569 00:37:56,761 --> 00:37:59,841 Finally after two days we said, "Let's go out and get fresh air." 570 00:38:00,001 --> 00:38:03,481 He needed it, he's been locked up for so long, 571 00:38:03,641 --> 00:38:05,681 and they bombarded us. 572 00:38:09,761 --> 00:38:11,641 I couldn't get out of the apartment 573 00:38:11,801 --> 00:38:15,881 without tens of reporters asking for a comment. 574 00:38:18,081 --> 00:38:20,721 Every time I was going out with Carole or one of my kids 575 00:38:20,881 --> 00:38:22,321 we were filmed. 576 00:38:25,721 --> 00:38:27,601 Couldn't even reach the car, 577 00:38:27,761 --> 00:38:31,161 they would stay between the door and the car and our back 578 00:38:31,321 --> 00:38:34,801 then we just need to push them on the side to get to the car. 579 00:38:43,041 --> 00:38:44,641 It was... 580 00:38:46,041 --> 00:38:48,601 an invasion of our privacy. 581 00:38:50,681 --> 00:38:54,441 It was overwhelming in a negative way. 582 00:38:54,601 --> 00:38:57,561 It was... stressful. 583 00:38:57,721 --> 00:38:59,041 We were already stressed, 584 00:38:59,201 --> 00:39:02,001 we didn't need more stress, but of course they don't care. 585 00:39:05,121 --> 00:39:06,761 And at the beginning, right at the beginning, 586 00:39:06,921 --> 00:39:08,681 he was sleeping all the time. 587 00:39:09,801 --> 00:39:12,521 I was surprised because Carlos never slept that much 588 00:39:12,681 --> 00:39:15,801 and he was always full of energy, he's like a fireball. 589 00:39:16,921 --> 00:39:20,201 And he was always tired and he was always sleeping. 590 00:39:21,121 --> 00:39:24,321 And, you know, as if like he wanted to escape his life. 591 00:39:27,161 --> 00:39:29,161 I don't think it was freedom. 592 00:39:29,321 --> 00:39:31,681 I think it was half freedom. 593 00:39:31,841 --> 00:39:37,601 I was out from a small prison into a larger one. 594 00:39:37,761 --> 00:39:40,081 More comfortable, because I was with my family 595 00:39:40,241 --> 00:39:43,641 and I was in my apartment, so I was able to shave, 596 00:39:43,801 --> 00:39:48,681 I was able to take a bath every day, I was able to eat the food I wanted. 597 00:39:48,841 --> 00:39:50,441 But I was watched. 598 00:39:54,241 --> 00:39:57,761 What we didn't know is that between this mass of reporters, 599 00:39:57,921 --> 00:39:59,401 we had followers. 600 00:39:59,561 --> 00:40:02,041 Followers. That means people paid by Nissan. 601 00:40:03,121 --> 00:40:05,841 And these followers would never leave me. 602 00:40:07,161 --> 00:40:10,841 At the time I didn't know who was press and who was follower. 603 00:40:11,001 --> 00:40:14,961 But when the attention of the press started to wind down, 604 00:40:15,921 --> 00:40:17,561 you are kept with very strange people, 605 00:40:17,721 --> 00:40:19,721 who didn't look like media people. 606 00:40:19,881 --> 00:40:22,241 It looked like more policemen. 607 00:40:28,601 --> 00:40:33,081 Well, I'm not hounded by the press like Carlos Ghosn. 608 00:40:33,241 --> 00:40:35,241 I'm not as interesting as Carlos Ghosn. 609 00:40:35,401 --> 00:40:36,961 That's why he's a CEO. 610 00:40:38,521 --> 00:40:42,161 I have been followed by Nissan. I know that. 611 00:40:43,601 --> 00:40:45,041 Which is crazy. 612 00:40:45,201 --> 00:40:49,361 I'm a 64-year-old guy with no deep, dark secrets, so... 613 00:40:50,521 --> 00:40:51,841 You know, why follow me? 614 00:40:52,001 --> 00:40:55,281 But I guess if you want to pay the money and follow me... 615 00:40:55,441 --> 00:40:57,841 that's fine, but remember you're a car company. 616 00:40:58,001 --> 00:41:02,441 So sell vehicles, make a profit, don't follow the old guy. 617 00:41:02,601 --> 00:41:04,561 For his 65th birthday 618 00:41:04,721 --> 00:41:08,121 Carlos Ghosn is free, but with conditions. 619 00:41:08,281 --> 00:41:11,481 Forced to stay in this Tokyo Building. 620 00:41:11,641 --> 00:41:14,841 But it's not his apartment where he's preparing his defence. 621 00:41:15,001 --> 00:41:17,361 But it's here, probably five kilometres away 622 00:41:17,521 --> 00:41:19,681 at his lawyer's office. 623 00:41:19,841 --> 00:41:23,721 Here, he'll be allowed to use a computer two days a week, 624 00:41:23,881 --> 00:41:26,481 but without the use of the Internet. 625 00:41:26,641 --> 00:41:30,161 He used the computer to do Zoom meetings. 626 00:41:30,321 --> 00:41:34,361 Also there were many people 627 00:41:36,201 --> 00:41:41,041 who came to see him. 628 00:41:43,161 --> 00:41:45,281 It takes a lot of time to try to understand 629 00:41:45,441 --> 00:41:47,081 how this happened. 630 00:41:50,761 --> 00:41:53,441 How this happened without me noticing anything. 631 00:41:54,641 --> 00:41:58,201 I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to understand. 632 00:42:00,281 --> 00:42:03,401 Gradually he started talking to his lawyers. 633 00:42:03,561 --> 00:42:06,721 We were in his lawyer's office every day having meetings, 634 00:42:06,881 --> 00:42:10,321 planning what we're going to do and how do we approach it. 635 00:42:13,081 --> 00:42:15,321 He's connecting the dots. 636 00:42:17,081 --> 00:42:18,601 People came forward, 637 00:42:18,761 --> 00:42:22,001 didn't wanna give their names up, but were giving us information. 638 00:42:24,921 --> 00:42:29,121 It was a very rich period of time where I was recovering physically 639 00:42:29,281 --> 00:42:32,521 from the four months I have spent in prison 640 00:42:33,841 --> 00:42:37,281 meeting people who could help me outside my lawyers. 641 00:42:38,081 --> 00:42:41,361 And I was trying to find what is the best line of defence. 642 00:42:45,681 --> 00:42:48,441 Little by little, I started to see 643 00:42:49,601 --> 00:42:52,561 that I was a victim of a set-up. 644 00:42:52,721 --> 00:42:55,321 I was the victim of a plot. 645 00:42:56,881 --> 00:43:00,561 And I spent a lot of time to try to understand why. 646 00:43:02,681 --> 00:43:04,001 Is it a palace coup? 647 00:43:04,161 --> 00:43:06,321 There are circumstances that would lead people to think 648 00:43:06,481 --> 00:43:08,721 that it might be a palace coup 649 00:43:08,881 --> 00:43:13,281 It appears that there is a conspiracy to take down Carlos Ghosn. 650 00:43:13,801 --> 00:43:17,081 We know that this is partly a coup, if not entirely. 651 00:43:17,961 --> 00:43:19,841 There was a movement underneath Carlos Ghosn 652 00:43:20,001 --> 00:43:21,321 that he missed. 653 00:43:22,041 --> 00:43:25,081 Why didn't they just say off you go, here's a payment? 654 00:43:25,241 --> 00:43:28,881 That's the thing. You would expect that to be the normal case. 655 00:43:29,921 --> 00:43:32,601 Nissan is the pride of the Japanese government. 656 00:43:32,761 --> 00:43:35,801 They went behind him and they figured this whole thing out. 657 00:43:37,121 --> 00:43:39,001 The thing is about Carlos Ghosn's story, 658 00:43:39,161 --> 00:43:41,961 is no matter what he did or didn't do, 659 00:43:42,121 --> 00:43:44,681 at the end of the day 660 00:43:44,841 --> 00:43:47,281 he really ended up getting caught in this conflict 661 00:43:47,441 --> 00:43:51,561 between France and Japan about the future of Nissan. 662 00:43:52,081 --> 00:43:55,601 If you are listening to me through this video today 663 00:43:55,761 --> 00:43:59,481 it means that I was not able to make the press conference. 664 00:43:59,641 --> 00:44:01,961 Prosecutors raid the Tokyo home 665 00:44:02,121 --> 00:44:04,441 of former Nissan chairman Carlos Ghosn... 666 00:44:04,601 --> 00:44:08,881 Authorities in Japan rearrest former Nissan chairman Carlos Ghosn. 667 00:44:39,801 --> 00:44:41,801 Iyuno-SDI Group